When's Melty on Steam?
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Author Topic: A serious question  (Read 3300 times)

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Offline Skywards

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A serious question
« on: February 12, 2011, 01:53:00 PM »
So, I really wanna play this game, but I have no experience in fighting games, and when I watch youtube videos of really good people and then try to play, I get discouraged. It's just that the game seems incredibly fast paced and looks like you need inhuman execution or something like time-slow vision to play it. I really tried playing and doing combos and what not, but it's sooooo hard it seems I'll never learn it. I'm watching melty blood match videos for like 2 or 3 years now, and still have a hard time noticing what's going on from time to time, let alone try and do it myself. I can't even execute properly simple character skills sometimes..
Several minutes ago I finished watching some EVO 2010 videos and I was like :psyduck: again. Maybe I really have no talent for this stuff, even though I am near pro level player in counter-strike. Some people can even play with more than one character, that's like learning the game twice or more from what I can tell.  :o How much time did it took you guys to get this good or similar? And what were you like in the beginning when you first tried playing fighting games?
It just seems so hopeless to learn this game...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 01:57:23 PM by Skywards »

Offline scottind

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2011, 02:21:15 PM »
if you're really starting to learn, i wouldnt use any of the complex comboes on the videos, but i'd start with really basic comboes that do moderate and decent damage first. After a couple months you can build off of it, and start stepping up to harder things.

some of those evo players, i would guess, 2 years of learning melty?

being skilled in fps and fighting games arent the same...

Offline UNREAL BLACK THING

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 02:31:20 PM »
I can't say too much as I am still pretty new myself.
I started playing over the summer (roughly eight months now) and I still have a lot to learn.
The only advice I can offer is to take your time, and don't be discouraged.

Playing Melty (and fighting games in general) is a combination of knowledge, skill, and experience.
Pick a main, study up on their combos (BnB's), and take your time to learn the game's mechanics. (And I actually recommend doing it in that order, as its kind of overwhelming if you have no sense for fighting games prior to Melty)

And from there practice, practice, PRACTICE. It takes time, yea, but don't feel pressured by the epicness you see in those vids.
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2011, 02:54:20 PM »
I feel you're going into this with a good spirit, but the wrong attitude. If you practice combos and just play people, this won't seem impossible at all, the key is just going out there and playing people. I can't emphasize that enough; just play. It's insanely important that before you get discouraged, you just pick a character, learn some beginner BnB's, NOT THE ADVANCED ONES, if you're just starting, and get out there and play people. Find out players where you live, and just attempt doing so. Post where you live and such in the reigonal thread, and hopefully you can start playing soon.
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2011, 03:07:44 PM »
First off, don't bother trying to compare to the guys at EVO when you're just starting. They have years of experience playing this game.

Being rather new myself (started mashing around the MBAA switch) this is the progression I went through.

1: random mashing
2: ground strings (took a couple days to get a good one, still sort of mashing)
3: Air combos (took a couple days after getting the ground strings, still sort of mashing)
4: Easy mixups (The first I learned was sj9 44 j.c 2a)
5: After about a 3 months I managed to stop mashing but still nothing extravagant. I was using Arc at the time so my main combo was 2abc5cc j.bc dj j.bc airthrow
6: I am just now after about a year of play starting to become proficient at blockstrings.

After this point the rest is just experimentation and watching videos. I haven't even been able to execute Ryougi's TK combos until recently and I've been playing her for more than a year  :emo:. When starting with a character just look for the easiest combo they have, most have something like the one I listed.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 03:11:28 PM by LivingShadow »

Offline Skywards

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2011, 05:17:34 PM »
The other problem is I live in Bulgaria, and there isn't much of a community here, but I won't go into that.

I wanna main Aoko, Nanaya or Tohno but not sure who. Aoko is my main choice but she seems very hard for beginners, and the Shiki's are nice, but they are very similar and I probably need a deeper explanation to choose one of them.

Oh and an other question - there are 2 types of playstiles, one is fast and by instinct/muscle memory/reflex, and the other relies more on accuracy and concentration, kinda more measured and slow playstile, at least that's how it is in FPS. Which one is preferred for fighting games? cause I'm the second type and just wondered.

And 10x for the good responses.


Offline LivingShadow

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2011, 06:32:19 PM »
Aoko isn't a bad choice, I personally prefer F-Aoko. In which case, your basic combo would be 2abc3c j.bc dj j.bc airthrow.

The preferred style for fighters is to accurately enter your inputs (for consistent combing) but to block and choose your attacks instinctively. At least that's what I do.

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2011, 09:19:58 PM »
Don't get distressed.  My progression in Melty Blood went like this.

Early 2005: Heard about a game called Melty Blood ReAct, wanted to check it out cuz I was a fan of a certain anime I thought existed at the time.

Day 1:  Started playing the game.  Had only learned what "combos" were in fighting games a few months prior to picking up Melty.  Started off playing Akiha because her fire stuff looked cool.  Figured out how to combo into 5bb and 2bbb and follow up with aerial attacks.  I played pad.

Couple weeks in:  Quickly learned how to [2abc5c j.bc dj.bc airthrow] for most of the cast, and get more comfortable with playing multiple characters, though Akiha was still my favorite.  I wanted to play Sacchin SO BAD, but couldn't do her 623c otg loops.

Few months in:  React Final Tuned is released sometime around here.  I discover the joy of training mode.  Thanks to sharing replays and watching the sparse videos, I learned how to do more standard BnBs, such as Sacchin's 623c loop and Nanaya's 214b corner loop.  I toss Akiha to the side to main Nanaya and sub Sacchin.  I begin to understand when to block and when to push buttons, but still play pretty reckless overall.  No good competition leaves me no guide to seek or understand improvement.

Late 2006:  Act Cadenza for ps2 comes out, I purchase the game and start really getting into the community and the early hype over ps2 port.  I play a lot with the few locals, watch a lot of videos of American and Japanese play, learn all my combos well, and get a very basic inherent understanding for spacing without realizing it.  At this point my feelings were "To be good you need to be able to execute good combos".  I didn't understand anything about fighter fundamentals.

Mid 2007, EVO:  Act Cadenza ver.B releases for PC and I purchase it ASAP.  I meet up with people of the community for the first time and participate in my first tournament.  I am completely trampled, 0-2.  Despite my crushing realization that I just plain suck at the game, I have a shitload of fun with everyone and get motivated to improve.

Mid 2008, EVO:  I start to understand fundamental concepts of spacing, how to be patient on the defense, and how to pressure.  I'm still very poor at shielding, varying blockstrings or mixups, and have no concept of confirming air counterhits or bursting.  Once again, I enter into the tournament and get utterly destroyed 0-2.  Through the tourney, I end up gaining a lot of knowledge and realizing my worst repetitive habits.  At the end of the tournament I decide to drop Nanaya, and decide to pick up a new main.  My goal in the character switch is to relearn the game with all of my newfound knowledge, yet prevent myself from automatically reverting to old bad habits.

Late 2008:  After seeing the hype pre-release Actress Again footage, I decide to switch to Miyako in preparation for the new game.  I learn how to abuse active frames, learn how to tick throw, learn what frame traps and staggers are in block strings, and greatly level up my execution through months of constant training.  My natural feel for spacing levels up a bit and I am able to do basic mixups during blockstrings and okizeme.  I'm still poor at shielding and confirming air counterhits.

Mid 2009 EVO:  Everyone's pretty anti-hype over melty, waiting impatiently for Actress Again to release and playing the newly released Vanguard Princess.  I only get in a few sparse matches, and overall don't improve much.

Late 2009, NEC:  Actress Again releases, I promply buy it as usual.  I want to play C Miyako, but later end up sticking to F Miyako instead.  I fly out to Philly and play with the best of the East and West coasts.  I end up going 1-2.  Though I felt I was a much better player than my final opponent, I lost myself to tournament nerves and my execution took a nose dive.  Regardless, I come to a much better understanding of shielding, confirming air counterhits, and spacing throughout the event.  I end up leveling up significantly afterwards as a result.

Mid 2010, EVO:  Everyone is super hype that Melty is officially in EVO, and fucking everyone flies out to join in the event.  I find that I am notably stronger than the average player during casuals, though still free against the top players, which is a confidence booster.  As a result, I manage to stay cool under pressure during my actual tournament matches.  I end up going 3-2 in Pool 2.  My final opponent knew I was confident with the matchup against his main (I was giving him advice for his matches along the way), and as a result switched to his sub, to which I had no experience against and could dominate me in neutral air game.  The true value of matchup experience is dropped on my face like a sack of bricks as I was cleanly beaten.  In addition, my understanding of the neutral game (movement patterns, when to throw out normals, how to bait attacks and counterhit) is greatly increased during the event.  After the event, I end up owning a stick thanks to an extremely generous friend, and commit to completely stop playing on pad from that moment on.

Current day:  I grow comfortable with playing stick and begin playing many more fighters.  I grow to understand how fundamentals apply in more traditional fighters and level up a little.  I still completely suck at major zoning.



TL;DR: It took me around 5 years to really understand fighting games in an area with a relatively sparse fighting game scene.  Without an experienced mentor to teach you, it's a long and bumpy road.  It can be grueling, but it can also be a lot of fun if you have people to level up with.

I learned things in this order:
1. Combos
2. Defense
3. Pressure and Mixups
4. Spacing and Neutral game
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Offline Funky-kun

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 11:39:35 AM »
The other problem is I live in Bulgaria, and there isn't much of a community here, but I won't go into that.

 :psyduck: Това ме изненада. Ако искаш прати ми лично да поговорим. :)

My take on the learning curve:

1. Play against AI to learn to do combos/hitconfirms.
2. Grind training mode for advanced combos/blockstrings.
3. Play people for matchup experience, zoning and mixups.
4. Understanding of core mechanics comes from experience and observing high level play.

The wiki offers all the information you need to get from low to mid level play. Getting really good requires a lot of match experience however.

My experience:

First touched this game when Act Cadenza was coming out. I really wanted to main Sacchin (didn't even know about 623c loops) but ended up maining Ciel. I had only 2-3 guys to play about with at the time. 2B and 236C game me a lot of free wins once I managed to get to low-mid level play.

Once you got the feeling of the character I started experimenting with others - Akiha and Len. I couldn't do j2C mixups or blackcat combos but I found the characters fun and had success against my buddies, as they were a little below my learning curve. At that time I began having massive hype for VAkiha, after seeing some Tougeki footage of her. However, Momiji loop was beyond my execution.

When MBAA came out, I tried Len (nerfed) and quickly dumped her. I explored the Akihas and picked H. Her 5a6aa combos gave me a huge bump in execution and I started exploring real blockstrings for the first time. Then after some play I randomly found out that I can input the Momiji loop and began maining H-Vakiha. Through grinding I upped my execution, leveled blockstrings and started doing yomi-mixups. Her movement helped me solve problems with Ciel an Nero in neutral.

Sadly, for the last year I feel that my play buddies don't offer me enough challenge to step up my game, and time does not permit me to travel to gatherings. (other factors too, but mostly this.) For the time being, I am exploring C-Wlen for a change.  (gotta love forced block on wakeup.)

Long story short, If you find guys to play with (even 2 or 3) and have the time and hype for the game, getting good is mostly a matter of time. Drop me a PM and we'll see if we can meet once I get back to Bulgaria for the summer. :)
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Offline WYVERN LORD

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Re: A serious question
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2011, 12:25:35 PM »
The preferred style for fighters is to accurately enter your inputs (for consistent combing) but to block and choose your attacks instinctively. At least that's what I do.
I think relying on instinct can get you raped real bad in this game; with stagger pressure so simple to do and tons of frame traps you really gotta know what's coming at you. Doing what looks right can get you counterhit into oblivion. Instinct should really come in after you know a matchup.
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