day -3 mvc3

[Rokunaya]

Because with SF4 the execution barrier is at a stupid high level, where if you can't do 2f links with a 90% ratio you're fucking free and no better than a scrub

fchamp doesn't do 2f links, roku, and he wins against high level. SSF4 must be broken

Bringing up a character which is dependent on a strong understanding of neutral and keepaway with very good knowledge of your pokes and matchups and experience with anti-airs with no real combos isn't really a valid argument, when you know 90% of the cast relies on the sort of links I just spoke of. Don't argue over small details, Dhalsim is a completely legit character, but that wasn't my point. My point lies in the characters that have even tighter 1f links into ultras and such, so tight that it actually becomes  LEGIT STRATEGY to mash DP during your opponent's combo even in high level play.


Ontop of that I wasn't even arguing that SSF4 was broke, just that the sharp divide between pros and scrubs is hallowed out almost needlessly by these annoyingly hard combos that are the staples for most BnB's

[MasterT]

My point lies in the characters that have even tighter 1f links into ultras and such, so tight that it actually becomes  LEGIT STRATEGY to mash DP during your opponent's combo even in high level play.

I thought Daigo just had the ability to stop combos when he mashed DP.

[Zaelar]

A "pro" doesn't lose to a scrub no matter what the execution requirements are.  Being good in a low execution game means you know how to land a hit and not get hit, which the "pro" will do more of.  Being good in a high execution game means you can play ddr.

Saying you want an execution barrier is saying you want to go korean mmo in training mode and beat everyone who didn't for free because you do three times as much damage as them.

[Rokunaya]

I don't know Zaelar, I feel that easy damage for no work is always a problem, and that to obtain certain levels of damage someone should go through the execution barriers for it.

I think there's nothing wrong with reasonable execution barriers for certain levels of damage; afterall, we're always bitching about characters like F-kohaku that get that damage for free for no reason at all.

And though in the end a pro should still win regardless, there is a factor of luck in fighting games, and if there's no barrier at all, a pro can lose to a far worse player because of this far more than he should. That's how I feel anyways; I think it's reasonable. 

[FataCon]

I don't know Zaelar, I feel that easy damage for no work is always a problem, and that to obtain certain levels of damage someone should go through the execution barriers for it.

I think there's nothing wrong with reasonable execution barriers for certain levels of damage; afterall, we're always bitching about characters like F-kohaku that get that damage for free for no reason at all.

And though in the end a pro should still win regardless, there is a factor of luck in fighting games, and if there's no barrier at all, a pro can lose to a far worse player because of this far more than he should. That's how I feel anyways; I think it's reasonable. 

so is chess a bad game cause there's practically no execution needed? if a game takes less execution, then, generally speaking, more strategy is required. people keep talking about damage in this game. how about how to counter it? people are scrubbing out cause they aren't learning defensive fundamentals like blocking, spacing, and zoning. learn if what you're doing is safe or not. XF damage? sure, but they have to reach you/hit you first. problematic character? snap them in and kill them like zaelar said a few posts back. people keep eating dumb stuff cause they keep running headfirst into a damage buffet. it's not mvc2, and people should stop treating it like it is or should be. i feel like people are riding the mvc3 hatewave and falling back on the damage argument too much. stop getting hit by it. at the very least, if your opponent can do it, you basically have the same advantages overall to do the same (not talking about character specific matchups).

also, just cause f-koha did easy damage didn't mean she was winning tournaments (but that's not really mvc3 related, is it?)

[Zaelar]

People complain about her retardedly good moves leading to good damage, not that it's easy.  It being easy just makes it obvious.  People complain about ryogi even though her good combos aren't easy.  People would complain about f-arc if we had someone in america that could do her good bnb.

There are people who consistently win rock paper scissors, or rps "pros".  Random argument defiled?

[Dusk Thanatos]

The rps pros are just yomi gods

Teach them a fighting game, and they'd predict your every move!

EVERY SINGLE ONEEEE

[F9|Chibi]

The execution isn't what I dislike, it's the damage output.

[Light]

A "pro" doesn't lose to a scrub no matter what the execution requirements are.  Being good in a low execution game means you know how to land a hit and not get hit, which the "pro" will do more of.  Being good in a high execution game means you can play ddr.

Saying you want an execution barrier is saying you want to go korean mmo in training mode and beat everyone who didn't for free because you do three times as much damage as them.

Higher execution doesn't make a game more deeper or anything, but it'd like a higher one for this game if everyone is gonna do mega damage. I'd like for my opponent to have spent a little more time to have earned the ability to that kind of damage. Fast fly combos in MvC2 weren't that difficult, but it certainly was not ez mode like it is in MvC3.

I still like this game in all but this is just one of the few aspects I don't like about this game. And yes, I could play a game like XvSF where you die in exactly one hit all the time, and still have fun. I just was hoping that MvC3 wasn't going to turn into a game crazy sort of like that.

[Zaelar]

Go play an mmorpg if you want time spent grinding to equate to damage.  It's no different, don't even try.

[Light]

Go play an mmorpg if you want time spent grinding to equate to damage.  It's no different, don't even try.

Any game you play there's always something to practice. There grind is always there...

[Dusk Thanatos]

The difference is that in MMOs, your total time input directly correlates to your maximum potential damage output.

In fighters, the maximum output is the same, regardless of how long you've played. A person who's played for one day can get the exact same damage a person who's played for ten years gets, provided that person learns how. Fighting games have a learning requirement, whereas MMOs etc. have time requirements.

[Zaelar]

It's not a time requirement, it's a do a bunch of mundane shit requirement.

A level 1 in an mmo isn't doing the damage of a level 60 and someone who's never played a fighting game before isn't doing the damaging combos that someone good can do.  That's BS about someone who's played marvel for a day has the same potential damage as someone good.  Go look up videos of people playing marvel for the first time and then watch something recent.  Knowing a combo doesn't mean you can do it.  For some people grinding muscle memory takes days, some months, some minutes.

As for the grind always being there, of course it is, but it should be as short and painless as possible.

[Dusk Thanatos]

I meant that the game doesn't know any difference between the two players. You pick up a fighter, and if you can execute the same combos as someone who's played the game for years, you can do the same damage as them. That's what I meant by every player having the same potential damage at a given time with a given character. It is an absolute fact that if you play X character and do Y combo, you get Z damage. The game doesn't care who you are; you do the same input string with the same setup, and you get the same results.

Like you acknowledged, MMOs don't do that. You need to grind levels, etc. Level 1 players will necessarily get blown up by super-high leveled players in MMO, but new players to a given FG aren't going to necessarily get blown up because the game doesn't cap your potential based things like that. The only "cap" in FGs is knowledge (and I'll toss muscle memory in my definition of knowledge for this).

[Light]

As for the grind always being there, of course it is, but it should be as short and painless as possible.

I agree but sometimes it's not too bad. Sometimes the difficult of overcoming that hurdle can be a rewarding experience.

I have no problem with a game that has high or low execution requirements (I would prefer the latter). It just seems wack to me when you can do so much crazy damage, IMO. 

[sogos]

this is the most anime vs game ever made

you guys somehow played ougon for more than 30 minutes, how are you going to hate on mvc3

[Zaelar]

There's nothing wrong with enjoying that difficulty hurdle, which I enjoy too, but there are games designed around that for you to play.  There's no need to have it in a fighting game stopping new players from getting into the game.

I'm still playing mvc3 and enjoying it.  The game being trash doesn't stop the fun.  I'm not sure why I keep playing online and tormenting myself with lag though.

I stopped playing ougon because if I kept going I'm afraid it would tarnish my fond memories of day 1.

[ShinMasaki]

Ok, so I've been playing this game for a bit and I have to say. Despite it being overly easy and the online is filled with moron scrubs, it's actually pretty fun. Damage output is so high that one mistake means your character is eating the dirt. When I first picked up the game, I could scrub mash out 35% damage on a BnB without any trouble. Now after going through and learning advanced combo strings, comboing into combos, then OTG into another combo, I can up that to 60% damage on a BnB with Wesker, no meter/X-factor. Ryu can 100% bullshit in a corner with 3 bars off of any normal and I can chain any normal with Wesker into an 80% damage combo with 3 meter. I don't use assists because it's dangerous to do so, your assist characters take so much damage if they get caught in a combo it is risky sometimes. Also, my two mains don't need assists anyway. Ryu is a stable character, but with no real mix-up ability. Assists don't really help too much to me. Wesker is so good he doesn't need assists, they get in the way, really. Also, I scrub mash with Deadpool as my third, mostly because I like his Hyper Combo.

[FataCon]

Ok, so I've been playing this game for a bit and I have to say. Despite it being overly easy and the online is filled with moron scrubs, it's actually pretty fun. Damage output is so high that one mistake means your character is eating the dirt. When I first picked up the game, I could scrub mash out 35% damage on a BnB without any trouble. Now after going through and learning advanced combo strings, comboing into combos, then OTG into another combo, I can up that to 60% damage on a BnB with Wesker, no meter/X-factor. Ryu can 100% bullshit in a corner with 3 bars off of any normal and I can chain any normal with Wesker into an 80% damage combo with 3 meter. I don't use assists because it's dangerous to do so, your assist characters take so much damage if they get caught in a combo it is risky sometimes. Also, my two mains don't need assists anyway. Ryu is a stable character, but with no real mix-up ability. Assists don't really help too much to me. Wesker is so good he doesn't need assists, they get in the way, really. Also, I scrub mash with Deadpool as my third, mostly because I like his Hyper Combo.

wut. pokemon + teleport = amazing crossups.

[Zaelar]

Call assist + do unexpected crossover = dead character

[ShinMasaki]

wut. pokemon + teleport = amazing crossups.

Wesker is so good

[abitofBaileys]

Wesker is so good he doesn't need assists

Albert Wesker?

[Exciel]

I don't get it this game isn't even fun casually. All it did was make me want a new Darkstalkers more.

[F9|Chibi]

I don't get it this game isn't even fun casually. All it did was make me want a new Darkstalkers more.

It's funny because Capcom was originally quoted as saying it'd be too hard to create 3d models of DS characters due to how stretched out and wild and crazy their limbs etc get, but here they have 3 DS chicks, and Shuma Gorath.

Just give us VS4 already fuckers.

[caiooa]

It's funny because Capcom was originally quoted as saying it'd be too hard to create 3d models of DS characters due to how stretched out and wild and crazy their limbs etc get, but here they have 3 DS chicks, and Shuma Gorath.
Just give us VS4 already fuckers.

yes, but i don't see Venom (Eddie Brock) in the game. This make me wonder if it is really possible to recreate in 3D models all darkstalkers characters.