Melty Bread Forums
Misaki Town Bakery => Akiha's Tea Room => : GodRemixed March 30, 2008, 09:19:11 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Hi, everyone. I'm currently working on a project, a 2D fighting game. I'd wish not to go into the details until I have a mostly complete game doc.
Anyways, to put it bluntly, I'm looking for hands to work on it. I need 2D sprite artists and a programmer or two. If I need to I'm willing to make a video game engine, I'm capable but I would prefer someone with more programming experience than I have. I'll be done with the game doc enough to show it around probably by next week.
After the game doc I'll be working on the storyline and music. I also plan on writing a non-canon short story for each character, so that the sprite artist can get a feel for the characters. There's also something that I plan on doing for the sprites in this game, but I won't go into detail on it openly.
ATM this is a fan-made 2D fighter, it's not based off anything, but if you're working on it don't expect to get paid immediately. If we can get the game published and distributed then obviously every will get a cut of the profits, but not until then. It won't be a real job, unless we can get a sequel.
I won't take in artists and programmers, yet, but if you're interested or have a few questions, feel free to post or PM me.
Also, I work at the arcade where we host West Toast. If you're in the area, drop by and feel free to talk to me about it. I wear glasses, am really tall, have black hair, and go by Nathan/Nate.
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Out of curiosity, what programming language is this in?
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I would go for your project since I love 2D fighting games, but unfortunately I am currently busy
taking over the world doing my own game creation stuff. (since 2002 now X_x)
But let's say that much: An idea is nice to share with. The problem is to find people that are willing to work (finally it IS work) for nothing. I say nothing because they don't know if the project will succeed / will be bought if it's going to reach a final status.
However, I wish you luck that you find some guys.
But if you look for a small job, e.g. character design, you can PM me.
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Out of curiosity, what programming language is this in?
I know a few programming languages, but I'll need to refresh my memory if I'm going to be the main programmer (because of that I would prefer to have another programmer, but if I can't get one I'm capable, it would just take more time. I made myself a jack-of-all-trades, so essentially I'm not great at anything, so I know how to program, how to 3D model, how to level design, but not how to be great at all of them). The problem isn't the language in the beginning, it's converting it to PS3's programming code. Fortunately, transferring it to arcade will work with just about any language. Most arcade games run off Windows, or Linux.
But if you look for a small job, e.g. character design, you can PM me.
Thanks for the offer. I've already got a candidate for concept art, but she wouldn't be able to do in-game artwork. She's a comic artist, and a good friend of mine, she's also just been nominated for an award (the name of it eludes me, I think it's something like Shego). Because of the nomination, her artwork pages went from about $28 a page to $222 a page, so she might be too busy for my project.
Yeah, it's a lot of work, but it's unpaid work! At least unpaid until we can get a publisher. Before showing a publisher your project you have to have something completed, and for an indy game, that means unpaid work. But, with a good game doc, concept art and a mostly completed game engine minimum, you can get a publisher for a 2D fighting game. Most 3D games now-a-days you need more than that, but 2D fighting games don't make as much money so it's less of a gamble. However, the worst scenario is that no publisher wants to take us until we have a nearly fully complete game (i.e. we just need beta testers, and then work on a console version, the publisher will also pay for distribution costs). Beta testing ourselves won't be that big a deal, for me. Since I work at an arcade, I can probably put it in the computers for people to play (a lot of people play our computers for Melty Blood), and once it's mostly tweaked out I can put it in a machine.
There's a few companies I'm looking at who could be potential publishers, but most of them haven't taken on a 2D game before. SCEA is a great choice, they take in tons of indy games as long as it's exclusive to PS, hopefully that means I can at least make it for arcade since it would be in the originally programing.
Anyways, as for sprite artwork, I'm sure you already know how much work that would be. BlazBlue and KOF12 come out this year, and this game would end up coming out later than that, it would be suicide to do Melty Blood quality artwork (no offense to everyone here, I love the style, but the quality doesn't compare to the next gen 2D fighters).
I'll keep you guys posted
-Nate
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The problem isn't the language in the beginning, it's converting it to PS3's programming code.
Why the hell would you try to make a game for a platform for which you couldn't get a hold of that platforms API? Microsoft gives out the Xbox 360 API for free.
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The problem isn't the language in the beginning, it's converting it to PS3's programming code.
Why the hell would you try to make a game for a platform for which you couldn't get a hold of that platforms API? Microsoft gives out the Xbox 360 API for free.
BECAUSE THAT IS LUDACRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :prinny: :prinny:
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The problem isn't the language in the beginning, it's converting it to PS3's programming code.
Why the hell would you try to make a game for a platform for which you couldn't get a hold of that platforms API? Microsoft gives out the Xbox 360 API for free.
Typically, If I'm going to do it for multiple systems, I would program through 360's API, and then convert and debug on the PS3. However, this game will originate on arcade, which is a much more simple format than either. I could then convert it to both systems, but some companies are system exclusive so I'll have to keep that in mind. I only said PS3 because it popped up in my head first, 360 would have the same problem because I'd have to convert the programming for both of them.
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The 360's API (and consequentially, the Win32 API as well) are open by MS, and it's been said that since the PS3 runs off some flavor of Linux, the API would be made open (as to if that's been done yet, I've no idea though). So I think it'd be easier to port first to the 360, in any case.
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What does "convert the programming" mean?
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What does "convert the programming" mean?
I meant convert the pre-developed coding. You program the game, convert the code you've made (there are converters available for this), then debug.
The 360's API (and consequentially, the Win32 API as well) are open by MS, and it's been said that since the PS3 runs off some flavor of Linux, the API would be made open (as to if that's been done yet, I've no idea though). So I think it'd be easier to port first to the 360, in any case.
You're probably right, I'll have to look into it a bit more. I'm not at the stage of deciding which console I'll convert to. My priority is the arcade version.
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If you're writing the game for the 360, would you be using XNA?
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I thought pretty much all console games were done in C++, and you just need a dev kit from Sony or whoever to actually make it work for a specific platform. I've never heard of proprietary languages for vg consoles.
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I thought pretty much all console games were done in C++, and you just need a dev kit from Sony or whoever to actually make it work for a specific platform. I've never heard of proprietary languages for vg consoles.
I could be wrong about languages, but that's what I heard. I know C++, but I've never made a game for a console. I have some friends of mine who were talking about converting a 360 script to a PS3 script and how annoying it was because of the bugs it created that they had to correct. It might not be the language, but when I was talking to someone about programming in PS2, they were talking about how difficult it was to code.
If almost everything is in C++ that makes my job a hell of a lot easier.
You sound like you know more about this than I do, so I'll research this stuff. I know how to code, but I don't know the details of each console.
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Haha well, most of what I "know" is just lurking internet discussions and shit. Sounds to me like your friends aren't good OO designers :V
But yeah, I think 99% of console games are done in C++. You just need to learn the API so it can work for whatever console you are using, but of course, that's no small task. Do you do any professional programming? Are you a student?
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I haven't done any professional programming, though I have taken classes in it. This is why I would prefer someone with more experience to work on that part of the project, but I'm capable if it comes down to me doing it.
I was studying to get into the field of video game development, but I ditched that and am now working on a master's degree in Physics (maybe a doctorate, we'll see). I don't plan on making video games as a career, but a solid project I can do. To be honest, when I think about it, making an engine for a 2D fighting game is one of the easiest engines you can make, (without coughing up 1.5mil for the U3 engine). I was into programming all throughout high school and another 2 years of college, but I'd need to refresh myself before I start something from scratch.
I've been into the fighting game scene a lot more recently because of my current job, that it's pushing me to do a project I was writing about 2 years ago.
P.S. Didn't mean to steal your screenname, I've been using this one for awhile now.
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This topic makes me lol.
You need to do A LOT more research if you think it's as easy as running your code through a program and it auto converts stuff you are sadly mistaken.
If I were you, I would not even worry about the PS3 at all. Develop it for Windows/X360 using the XNA package(which uses C# not C++ btw) IF it succeeds on those two platforms then you can start thinking about the PS3.
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Can you give us more details about the game concept once you've gotten it sorted out? What makes your 2D fighter unique?
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This topic makes me lol.
You need to do A LOT more research if you think it's as easy as running your code through a program and it auto converts stuff you are sadly mistaken.
If I were you, I would not even worry about the PS3 at all. Develop it for Windows/X360 using the XNA package(which uses C# not C++ btw) IF it succeeds on those two platforms then you can start thinking about the PS3.
Like I had said, I don't plan on it coming out on console initially, most fighting games come out on arcade first. Arcade games can run off of Windows XP, so there's no problem with that. I have never done work for a PS3 or a 360, so that's why I'm uninformed. If we can get to a point where we'd consider porting it to a console I'll do the research for that then, but making a game for Windows XP is the only thing I need to worry about atm.
EDIT: Also, thanks for letting me know about this. This is why I'm discussing it, so I can know what I'm limited on. Do you work for a game company?
Can you give us more details about the game concept once you've gotten it sorted out? What makes your 2D fighter unique?
I'd love to give more details, let me finish the game doc first.
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If I were you, I would not even worry about the PS3 at all. Develop it for Windows/X360 using the XNA package(which uses C# not C++ btw) IF it succeeds on those two platforms then you can start thinking about the PS3.
You sure you can't use C++ .NET? I mean, C# is nice, but if you can avoid using it, you won't be totally limiting that code to MS platforms, and he'd have the added benefit of not having to learn a new language. If they force you to use C#, that really sucks.
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This topic makes me lol.
You need to do A LOT more research if you think it's as easy as running your code through a program and it auto converts stuff you are sadly mistaken.
If I were you, I would not even worry about the PS3 at all. Develop it for Windows/X360 using the XNA package(which uses C# not C++ btw) IF it succeeds on those two platforms then you can start thinking about the PS3.
Like I had said, I don't plan on it coming out on console initially, most fighting games come out on arcade first. Arcade games can run off of Windows XP, so there's no problem with that. I have never done work for a PS3 or a 360, so that's why I'm uninformed. If we can get to a point where we'd consider porting it to a console I'll do the research for that then, but making a game for Windows XP is the only thing I need to worry about atm.
EDIT: Also, thanks for letting me know about this. This is why I'm discussing it, so I can know what I'm limited on. Do you work for a game company?
Yes I do, I'm currently a UI programmer at EA Tiburon in Maitland FL(Orlando).
You can most definitely use the .net framework if you choose to, the problem is though that it is a LOT harder to develop for. When you use XNA it makes it much easier to manage stuff.
Wikipedia for a quick run down of the package.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA
At this point I wouldn't be too concerned with limiting strictly to MS platforms, as the installed user base is large enough for it not to matter(especially for the early stages of the development cycle). As far as learning a new language, C# is ezmode C++. Sure there will be some learning that needs to be done, but in the grand scheme of things it's worth it.
You also have to take into consideration that IF you want to sell the game you have to ensure that all your development programs are Legit, otherwise you are setting yourself up for a lot of trouble.
Keep in mind that the XNA package is only like a hundred bucks. If you want a full version of the MS Visual Studios .net suite you're looking at like a grand easy.
I think your decision to focus solely on Xp is a wise one. Once you get a solid game running in a windows environment(Which supports controllers / Arcade sticks) you can then focus on broadening your audience. I mean look at Melty Blood. It started as a PC game and then evolved into a PS2/arcade game.
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Because I'm not planning on paying anybody who works on this project until/if it makes money, it's better to think of this as a fan-made game for now. Before I get into the serious business of packaging and distribution to arcade, or a port to other consoles, I'm focusing on getting the game done. I can make it for PC like Melty Blood did and then work on porting it to 360 or PS3 if/when the time comes.
I know C++ and C#, but I haven't touched it in 2 years, so I'll research it again. Right now I know I'm at least working on the story and music (I'm using Acid) of the game.
Also, I have a question for anyone who knows. Say I use a pirated version of any particular software I'll be using in the project. If I wanted to distribute it for sale, would I be able to buy all the software and then copy/paste the info, then save it on the legal software? Or do I have to have the legal software straight from the start?
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before you sell you have to have the software legally, As long as you don't try to sell it with unlicensed software you'll be safe.
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That's what I thought, thanks.
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As far as learning a new language, C# is ezmode C++. Sure there will be some learning that needs to be done, but in the grand scheme of things it's worth it.
It's also proprietary. Are there even dev environments besides VS that support C#? I like C# as much as the next guy, but how easy it is isn't the only thing to consider when deciding if you're going to learn it.
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As far as learning a new language, C# is ezmode C++. Sure there will be some learning that needs to be done, but in the grand scheme of things it's worth it.
It's also proprietary. Are there even dev environments besides VS that support C#? I like C# as much as the next guy, but how easy it is isn't the only thing to consider when deciding if you're going to learn it.
Yes and No, again Wikipedia says it better than I ever could(read lots o' examples).
Platform
Microsoft's current .NET implementation is only available on Windows, and while this only relates to the availability of some non-standard libraries developed by Microsoft, rather than the C# language itself, the .NET runtime's ties to this operating system are seen by some as a drawback.[17][18]. However, there are other environments that support C# programs on Windows, Linux, BSD or Mac OS X, and while some provide a complete implementation of the C# language and CLI, none provide a complete implementation of every library available from Microsoft. See Mono[19] and DotGNU[20] In November of 2002 Microsoft released a 1.0 CLI implementation that worked on Free BSD and Mac OS X 10.2, but the next versions were only made available on Windows.
In short it wouldn't be a total waste of time if it helps make your development easier.
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I'm pretty much a greenhorn in terms of advanced programming, but I know enough to code a decent multiplayer game.
My question is, how is C# applicable for game programming? From how I worked with it in Visual Studio, it appears to be made for utility programs rather than games.
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It's fairly flexible. Most of my experience with it is using it in conjunction with ASP .NET. It's basically Microsofts answer to Java, and I'm sure it would make an easier, less tedious experience than C++. I give my vote of confidence for using C#, but I also know some people get sick to their stomach having to deal Microsoft proprietary stuff, or may not necessarily realize the platform limitations C# has in comparison to Java.
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It makes Windows development MUCH MUCH easier.
you would still use C++ for greater majority of the game code.
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It makes Windows development MUCH MUCH easier.
you would still use C++ for greater majority of the game code.
Is it possible to write in two languages at once for any given program?
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Yes. It's pretty common afaik. My company does it. Makes things confusing ???
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Well, continuing my game doc is going to be delayed. I've got a lot to do for work, so my spare time has to be put into that for now.
I might as well talk a bit about the details then:
The game is a 2D fighter, and takes place in a wild west setting, think Trigun. There's a kick, light punch, hard punch and shoot button, and I'm considering a reload button. The shoot button acts like another limb, you can qcf shoot, and do other supers with shoot. Before you guys castrate me, it won't be as projectile heavy as it seems. It's hardly going to be like MvC2 with beams and projectiles filling the screen. Each character has their own type of gun, if I put the reload thing in then each gun would have different bullet capacities too (6 for 6 shooter, 12 for magazine type guns, 2 for shotguns, etc.).
The game takes place in an all desert locale, everywhere on their planet is desert. I'm not making a backstory for why, in the past there wasn't some nuclear war or anything, just on this planet that's how it's always been. There will be backstory for the characters though. The universe has slightly high end technology, so they're not all using 6-shooters. The universe could support cybernetic implants, but I don't plan on any character having them (just to give you a feel of the universe).
There will be an outlaw or two, a sheriff, a tomboy cowgirl, a showgirl, a train conductor, a sombrero and poncho wearing guy, an undertaker and so on.
What I was thinking was that there aren't enough western games (not that people have been asking for them or anything, it just makes sure that the game in "original"), this game could hit the spot, and with the element of the shoot button could change up gameplay. I still plan on it having the usual fighting game feel to it.
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How do you plan to make it so players won't go projectile happy? :V
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You can pretty much combine western ambient with japanese Style. Trigun shows it, Cowboy Bebop shows it (in a weird way).
The shooting feature would be a nice one, depending on various weapons and properties. I would implement the shooting to connect combos (shooting has no recovery frames and can be done while running, jumping, dashing etc.) They do no damage but CAN be used to connect combos that pushes the player back from his opponent so he can shoot, dash in and connect. Also, I rather think you should not do a reload button. Give every character a specific amount of bullets in every fight. So gun spam is useless because the combos aren't going to be better then.
Assuming bullets auto-hit on stand-shoot, jshoot or dash-shoot (not counting the qcf shoot etc), you should plan on putting a bullet collision in. If two characters shoot at the same time and depending on the bullet type, they collide and do not hit. Except some characters with a shotgun e.g, but then give less bullets and/or less speed. Balancing is quite a hard thing when it comes to fighting games.
Just some thoughts that came up. Keep it traditional (without reload etc) but implement new, innovative features.
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It makes Windows development MUCH MUCH easier.
you would still use C++ for greater majority of the game code.
Is it possible to write in two languages at once for any given program?
yes, a lot of C++ programs contain regular ole C code in them.
I know here at my job the c++ programmers use a lot of SQL programming as they are accessing databases a lot.
As long as you have the libraries to support it, it's all gravy.
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You can pretty much combine western ambient with japanese Style. Trigun shows it, Cowboy Bebop shows it (in a weird way).
The shooting feature would be a nice one, depending on various weapons and properties. I would implement the shooting to connect combos (shooting has no recovery frames and can be done while running, jumping, dashing etc.) They do no damage but CAN be used to connect combos that pushes the player back from his opponent so he can shoot, dash in and connect. Also, I rather think you should not do a reload button. Give every character a specific amount of bullets in every fight. So gun spam is useless because the combos aren't going to be better then.
Assuming bullets auto-hit on stand-shoot, jshoot or dash-shoot (not counting the qcf shoot etc), you should plan on putting a bullet collision in. If two characters shoot at the same time and depending on the bullet type, they collide and do not hit. Except some characters with a shotgun e.g, but then give less bullets and/or less speed. Balancing is quite a hard thing when it comes to fighting games.
Just some thoughts that came up. Keep it traditional (without reload etc) but implement new, innovative features.
I'd like players to be able to see the bullets instead of the Cable shot people are used to. That no damage combo continuer actually sound like a great idea, maybe normal shoot does no damage but special move shoot does.
While reloading players would be able to move and jump and dash, even kick and punch, but not shoot until their time is back, kind of like Eddie's recovery time after using his familiar. However, if I make a Reload button then they could reload even when they have half of their bullets left, or I could make fR the throw attacks. With a reload whenever you want it, it could add a new angle to the strategy of the game.
Right, Japan actually really likes (or used to like) our Western movies, because they reflected Samurai movies so well, and vice versa. I forgot to mention it, but I think this style of Western (Wild Wild West, Trigun, etc.) is called Fantasy Western.
How do you plan to make it so players won't go projectile happy? :V
Special moves would take up more than one bullet, and players have limited bullets. It would be impossible to go projectile happy with a 6-shooter if you have to reload every 6 shots. Also, I can make it so that there's a recovery if people try to do two Shoots in a row, just like you would get with two HPs in a row.
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There was something new I was wanting to try with the animation too. In a desert world, almost everybody will be wearing browns, beiges and tans. Anything you wore that wasn't those colors would become one really fast. So, a color palette swap for each button would almost be pointless. Well, what I was wanting to try was 2 different outfits per character. For example, one would be with a cowboy with his 5-gallon hat and trenchcoat, and the other would be with those off, showing his shirt underneath and his hair.
The things one would normally have to consider when doing something like this is the change in hitboxes, the character won't be EXACTLY the same in both costumes, therefore all of his moves would end up changing, combos would mess up, etc. So typically this would become a huge mess and a giant hassle. However, I have a solution.
We'd draw the character "naked." The naked character would have details on his face, his muscles, etc. The hitbox will then outline the naked character. Then the artist draws over the naked character one set of clothing (and the hair). The naked character from before is used again and the second set of clothing is drawn over it. The hitboxes between the two sprites will be exactly the same, because it's based off of the naked character and not the individual sprites. Players would have to hit their opponent's bodies because their clothing wouldn't be a part of their hitbox. Therefore, a player wouldn't be worried about they're flowing trenchcoat being hit.
This would take more work than just a palette swap like most 2D fighters have, but I think it would look really snazzy if we can let the player choose what their character is wearing in a 2D fighter.
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I'd like players to be able to see the bullets instead of the Cable shot people are used to. That no damage combo continuer actually sound like a great idea, maybe normal shoot does no damage but special move shoot does.
Also you want to do a projectile instead of the cable shot. Or do you want a cable shot with a visible bullet? That would be graphic playground only. The problem with actual bullet projectiles is, how you want to manage the direction? You can only shoot forward then, which would suck like hell. Input + Shoot is not very comfortable, because if you want to shoot in the air, you need to input a Jump and the character jumps. This is why I thought about autohit with NORMAL shoot and no damage, but maybe a damage modifier by 1/2. Means, if you connect a combo with a bullet, your attacks only do half damage in this combo. If you connect again, again half damage. So connecting more than 2 Bullets in one combo is useless.
If you going for 236Shoot etc, you can for sure do special moves. Those do damage and don't connect. For one-hits or antiairs e.g. Also, to reflect mass projectiles from a Shotgun. Why only shoot bullets? If it goes anime style, beams or shields would be stylish, too.
Again, just thoughts.
Edit: Hitboxes shouldn't be the sprite itself, hitboxes are set in the code. The sprite doesn't have anything to do with hitboxes.
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Also you want to do a projectile instead of the cable shot. Or do you want a cable shot with a visible bullet? That would be graphic playground only. The problem with actual bullet projectiles is, how you want to manage the direction? You can only shoot forward then, which would suck like hell. Input + Shoot is not very comfortable, because if you want to shoot in the air, you need to input a Jump and the character jumps. This is why I thought about autohit with NORMAL shoot and no damage, but maybe a damage modifier by 1/2. Means, if you connect a combo with a bullet, your attacks only do half damage in this combo. If you connect again, again half damage. So connecting more than 2 Bullets in one combo is useless.
If you going for 236Shoot etc, you can for sure do special moves. Those do damage and don't connect. For one-hits or antiairs e.g. Also, to reflect mass projectiles from a Shotgun. Why only shoot bullets? If it goes anime style, beams or shields would be stylish, too.
Again, just thoughts.
Edit: Hitboxes shouldn't be the sprite itself, hitboxes are set in the code. The sprite doesn't have anything to do with hitboxes.
I want people to be able to dodge the bullets by seeing them, they'll still be fast, but not instantaneous. Obviously if it's in the middle of a combo, they can't dodge it. As for shooting at multiple angles, you can think of it like Axl's chains; bS would be slightly inclined upwards (maybe 30 degrees), dS would be highly inclined upwards (maybe 60 degrees), S would be straight forward and fS would have some function as well. Midair these would change, of course. I was wanting to keep it mostly western, that's why my focus was around guns, but a Kunai throwing ninja could work too, I don't think that beam swords would fit with the theme very well.
Hitboxes are typically outlining the sprites, right? It's not like I've looked at a 2D fighters code, but that's definitely how it feels. Even if hotboxes are set in code, they still would use the positioning of points in the artwork, I would think. If that's the case it would be outlining the naked character.
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Hitboxes are typically outlining the sprites, right? It's not like I've looked at a 2D fighters code, but that's definitely how it feels. Even if hotboxes are set in code, they still would use the positioning of points in the artwork, I would think. If that's the case it would be outlining the naked character.
There are sites that have hitbox outlines for like sf2. I don't know where, but check them out. They are literally rectangular, and do not necessarily follow the outline of the sprite. Practically, the sprite only serves the purpose of letting the player know where their character is.
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I like the idea, but so many people tried this before, that is my only problem with this topic, you need to check alot more facts. IE just the comment that Arcade games run on PC, or that you think you can just run or easily port to 360, ps3 etc, scared the crap out of me. They never run on windows natively. They were either proprietary before, or are now basically computer games. IE most new arcade games that run on PC hardware, are developed basically as a PC game, with certain proprietary calls, so it can't just be dumped into the pc. I think Darth Trey has a good idea how hard this is. Its a great idea, heck I tried it myself, but after researching the logistics for more than 2 weeks, I realized its impossible by myself. And the more people that help you, the less control you have. No one will realistically help just create your vision, the more collaborations you have, the more people want to inject their own ideas into the project, ie why normally there are power struggles even in a doujin environment. If everyone injects their idea, your game is a mess, etc.
I would suggest take 2 months, and do a real design document, with milestones, etc. Don't even worry about the game, until you have a game engine at least drafted or somewhat working. Alot of features you may want to add, are most likely beyond your programing scope. Not that you can't do it, but game engines are made by alot of people, with experience.
ps. Darth Trey, if I want to visit Tiburon, just to see it, thinks that possible?
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Yeah, as long as you know someone at the company you can get a "tour" of the entire studio.
I've given my GF, Cousin, Friends, ect. tours of the studio before.