In Development

[Alfonse]

I'm pretty much a greenhorn in terms of advanced programming, but I know enough to code a decent multiplayer game.

My question is, how is C# applicable for game programming? From how I worked with it in Visual Studio, it appears to be made for utility programs rather than games.

[pherai]

It's fairly flexible. Most of my experience with it is using it in conjunction with ASP .NET.  It's basically Microsofts answer to Java, and I'm sure it would make an easier, less tedious experience than C++. I give my vote of confidence for using C#, but I also know some people get sick to their stomach having to deal Microsoft proprietary stuff, or may not necessarily realize the platform limitations C# has in comparison to Java.

[DarthTrey]

It makes Windows development MUCH MUCH easier.

you would still use C++ for greater majority of the game code.

[Alfonse]

It makes Windows development MUCH MUCH easier.

you would still use C++ for greater majority of the game code.

Is it possible to write in two languages at once for any given program?

[pherai]

Yes. It's pretty common afaik. My company does it. Makes things confusing 

[GodRemixed]

Well, continuing my game doc is going to be delayed. I've got a lot to do for work, so my spare time has to be put into that for now.

I might as well talk a bit about the details then:

The game is a 2D fighter, and takes place in a wild west setting, think Trigun. There's a kick, light punch, hard punch and shoot button, and I'm considering a reload button. The shoot button acts like another limb, you can qcf shoot, and do other supers with shoot. Before you guys castrate me, it won't be as projectile heavy as it seems. It's hardly going to be like MvC2 with beams and projectiles filling the screen. Each character has their own type of gun, if I put the reload thing in then each gun would have different bullet capacities too (6 for 6 shooter, 12 for magazine type guns, 2 for shotguns, etc.).

The game takes place in an all desert locale, everywhere on their planet is desert. I'm not making a backstory for why, in the past there wasn't some nuclear war or anything, just on this planet that's how it's always been. There will be backstory for the characters though. The universe has slightly high end technology, so they're not all using 6-shooters. The universe could support cybernetic implants, but I don't plan on any character having them (just to give you a feel of the universe).

There will be an outlaw or two, a sheriff, a tomboy cowgirl, a showgirl, a train conductor, a sombrero and poncho wearing guy, an undertaker and so on.

What I was thinking was that there aren't enough western games (not that people have been asking for them or anything, it just makes sure that the game in "original"), this game could hit the spot, and with the element of the shoot button could change up gameplay. I still plan on it having the usual fighting game feel to it.

[Alfonse]

How do you plan to make it so players won't go projectile happy? 

[abitofBaileys]

You can pretty much combine western ambient with japanese Style. Trigun shows it, Cowboy Bebop shows it (in a weird way).
The shooting feature would be a nice one, depending on various weapons and properties. I would implement the shooting to connect combos (shooting has no recovery frames and can be done while running, jumping, dashing etc.) They do no damage but CAN be used to connect combos that pushes the player back from his opponent so he can shoot, dash in and connect. Also, I rather think you should not do a reload button. Give every character a specific amount of bullets in every fight. So gun spam is useless because the combos aren't going to be better then.

Assuming bullets auto-hit on stand-shoot, jshoot or dash-shoot (not counting the qcf shoot etc), you should plan on putting a bullet collision in. If two characters shoot at the same time and depending on the bullet type, they collide and do not hit. Except some characters with a shotgun e.g, but then give less bullets and/or less speed. Balancing is quite a hard thing when it comes to fighting games.

Just some thoughts that came up. Keep it traditional (without reload etc) but implement new, innovative features.

[DarthTrey]

It makes Windows development MUCH MUCH easier.

you would still use C++ for greater majority of the game code.

Is it possible to write in two languages at once for any given program?

yes, a lot of C++ programs contain regular ole C code in them.

I know here at my job the c++ programmers use a lot of SQL programming as they are accessing databases a lot. 

As long as you have the libraries to support it, it's all gravy.

[GodRemixed]

You can pretty much combine western ambient with japanese Style. Trigun shows it, Cowboy Bebop shows it (in a weird way).
The shooting feature would be a nice one, depending on various weapons and properties. I would implement the shooting to connect combos (shooting has no recovery frames and can be done while running, jumping, dashing etc.) They do no damage but CAN be used to connect combos that pushes the player back from his opponent so he can shoot, dash in and connect. Also, I rather think you should not do a reload button. Give every character a specific amount of bullets in every fight. So gun spam is useless because the combos aren't going to be better then.

Assuming bullets auto-hit on stand-shoot, jshoot or dash-shoot (not counting the qcf shoot etc), you should plan on putting a bullet collision in. If two characters shoot at the same time and depending on the bullet type, they collide and do not hit. Except some characters with a shotgun e.g, but then give less bullets and/or less speed. Balancing is quite a hard thing when it comes to fighting games.

Just some thoughts that came up. Keep it traditional (without reload etc) but implement new, innovative features.

I'd like players to be able to see the bullets instead of the Cable shot people are used to. That no damage combo continuer actually sound like a great idea, maybe normal shoot does no damage but special move shoot does.

While reloading players would be able to move and jump and dash, even kick and punch, but not shoot until their time is back, kind of like Eddie's recovery time after using his familiar. However, if I make a Reload button then they could reload even when they have half of their bullets left, or I could make fR the throw attacks. With a reload whenever you want it, it could add a new angle to the strategy of the game.

Right, Japan actually really likes (or used to like) our Western movies, because they reflected Samurai movies so well, and vice versa. I forgot to mention it, but I think this style of Western (Wild Wild West, Trigun, etc.) is called Fantasy Western.

How do you plan to make it so players won't go projectile happy? 

Special moves would take up more than one bullet, and players have limited bullets. It would be impossible to go projectile happy with a 6-shooter if you have to reload every 6 shots. Also, I can make it so that there's a recovery if people try to do two Shoots in a row, just like you would get with two HPs in a row.

[GodRemixed]

There was something new I was wanting to try with the animation too. In a desert world, almost everybody will be wearing browns, beiges and tans. Anything you wore that wasn't those colors would become one really fast. So, a color palette swap for each button would almost be pointless. Well, what I was wanting to try was 2 different outfits per character. For example, one would be with a cowboy with his 5-gallon hat and trenchcoat, and the other would be with those off, showing his shirt underneath and his hair.

The things one would normally have to consider when doing something like this is the change in hitboxes, the character won't be EXACTLY the same in both costumes, therefore all of his moves would end up changing, combos would mess up, etc. So typically this would become a huge mess and a giant hassle. However, I have a solution.

We'd draw the character "naked." The naked character would have details on his face, his muscles, etc. The hitbox will then outline the naked character. Then the artist draws over the naked character one set of clothing (and the hair). The naked character from before is used again and the second set of clothing is drawn over it. The hitboxes between the two sprites will be exactly the same, because it's based off of the naked character and not the individual sprites. Players would have to hit their opponent's bodies because their clothing wouldn't be a part of their hitbox. Therefore, a player wouldn't be worried about they're flowing trenchcoat being hit.

This would take more work than just a palette swap like most 2D fighters have, but I think it would look really snazzy if we can let the player choose what their character is wearing in a 2D fighter.

[abitofBaileys]

I'd like players to be able to see the bullets instead of the Cable shot people are used to. That no damage combo continuer actually sound like a great idea, maybe normal shoot does no damage but special move shoot does.

Also you want to do a projectile instead of the cable shot. Or do you want a cable shot with a visible bullet? That would be graphic playground only. The problem with actual bullet projectiles is, how you want to manage the direction? You can only shoot forward then, which would suck like hell. Input + Shoot is not very comfortable, because if you want to shoot in the air, you need to input a Jump and the character jumps. This is why I thought about autohit with NORMAL shoot and no damage, but maybe a damage modifier by 1/2. Means, if you connect a combo with a bullet, your attacks only do half damage in this combo. If you connect again, again half damage. So connecting more than 2 Bullets in one combo is useless.

If you going for 236Shoot etc, you can for sure do special moves. Those do damage and don't connect. For one-hits or antiairs e.g. Also, to reflect mass projectiles from a Shotgun. Why only shoot bullets? If it goes anime style, beams or shields would be stylish, too.

Again, just thoughts.

Edit: Hitboxes shouldn't be the sprite itself, hitboxes are set in the code. The sprite doesn't have anything to do with hitboxes.

[GodRemixed]

Also you want to do a projectile instead of the cable shot. Or do you want a cable shot with a visible bullet? That would be graphic playground only. The problem with actual bullet projectiles is, how you want to manage the direction? You can only shoot forward then, which would suck like hell. Input + Shoot is not very comfortable, because if you want to shoot in the air, you need to input a Jump and the character jumps. This is why I thought about autohit with NORMAL shoot and no damage, but maybe a damage modifier by 1/2. Means, if you connect a combo with a bullet, your attacks only do half damage in this combo. If you connect again, again half damage. So connecting more than 2 Bullets in one combo is useless.

If you going for 236Shoot etc, you can for sure do special moves. Those do damage and don't connect. For one-hits or antiairs e.g. Also, to reflect mass projectiles from a Shotgun. Why only shoot bullets? If it goes anime style, beams or shields would be stylish, too.

Again, just thoughts.

Edit: Hitboxes shouldn't be the sprite itself, hitboxes are set in the code. The sprite doesn't have anything to do with hitboxes.

I want people to be able to dodge the bullets by seeing them, they'll still be fast, but not instantaneous. Obviously if it's in the middle of a combo, they can't dodge it. As for shooting at multiple angles, you can think of it like Axl's chains; bS would be slightly inclined upwards (maybe 30 degrees), dS would be highly inclined upwards (maybe 60 degrees), S would be straight forward and fS would have some function as well. Midair these would change, of course. I was wanting to keep it mostly western, that's why my focus was around guns, but a Kunai throwing ninja could work too, I don't think that beam swords would fit with the theme very well.

Hitboxes are typically outlining the sprites, right? It's not like I've looked at a 2D fighters code, but that's definitely how it feels. Even if hotboxes are set in code, they still would use the positioning of points in the artwork, I would think. If that's the case it would be outlining the naked character.

[pherai]

Hitboxes are typically outlining the sprites, right? It's not like I've looked at a 2D fighters code, but that's definitely how it feels. Even if hotboxes are set in code, they still would use the positioning of points in the artwork, I would think. If that's the case it would be outlining the naked character.

There are sites that have hitbox outlines for like sf2. I don't know where, but check them out. They are literally rectangular, and do not necessarily follow the outline of the sprite. Practically, the sprite only serves the purpose of letting the player know where their character is.

[pc1x1]

I like the idea, but so many people tried this before, that is my only problem with this topic, you need to check alot more facts. IE just the comment that Arcade games run on PC, or that you think you can just run or easily port to 360, ps3 etc, scared the crap out of me. They never run on windows natively. They were either proprietary before, or are now basically computer games. IE most new arcade games that run on PC hardware, are developed basically as a PC game, with certain proprietary calls, so it can't just be dumped into the pc. I think Darth Trey has a good idea how hard this is. Its a great idea, heck I tried it myself, but after researching the logistics for more than 2 weeks, I realized its impossible by myself. And the more people that help you, the less control you have. No one will realistically help just create your vision, the more collaborations you have, the more people want to inject their own ideas into the project, ie why normally there are power struggles even in a doujin environment. If everyone injects their idea, your game is a mess, etc.

I would suggest take 2 months, and do a real design document, with milestones, etc. Don't even worry about the game, until you have a game engine at least drafted or somewhat working. Alot of features you may want to add, are most likely beyond your programing scope. Not that you can't do it, but game engines are made by alot of people, with experience.

ps. Darth Trey, if I want to visit Tiburon, just to see it, thinks that possible?

[DarthTrey]

Yeah, as long as you know someone at the company you can get a "tour" of the entire studio.

I've given my GF, Cousin, Friends, ect. tours of the studio before.