Why can't America win SBO?

[jocund]

What is your opinion on why America seem to never win a SBO tournament.

[Spirit Juice]

Because we main games like Mashy Blood.

[dakanya]

Lack of available and skilled competition. Arcades are everywhere in Japan. It's easy to find a competitive environment to nurture your growth.

[pherai]

We could win if Marvel2 was an SBO game.

[jocund]

We could win if Marvel2 was an SBO game.

I knew that comment would come sooner or later...

[Chun （中）]

Lack of available and skilled competition. Arcades are everywhere in Japan. It's easy to find a competitive environment to nurture your growth.

In summary, JP Players get 8x EXP Growth Rate, while we're stuck on 1x with a Maintenance time of 4-6 days. That, and the JP button is unholy.

~Chun

[jocund]

Because we main games like Mashy Blood.

And we still suck at Guilty Gear, Street Fighter and any other SBO games.

[Arcrenciel]

My thoughts are that none of us put in nearly as much time and effort to our respective games as the Koreans or the Japanese or other countries.

Koreans play Starcraft DAILY for at least 10 hours usually averaging 12 or more, and they own that game inside out.  They have literally dedicated their lives to the game.
Balance)qudans, among the best Tekken DR players of his time, plays at least 8 hours a day.  Among him are people like Knee, NIN, Balance)Jiemoon Ace, etc.  Qudans was pulling stuff off at Electric Cancel 6 that none of the US players even thought about trying until they saw it.
Korean players have no qualms about traveling to Japan to play some Tekken DR.
The Japanese and Korean gaming scene in general is just much more dedicated to winning and playing skillfully.  (I dare you to find someone button mashing at Joybox, Green Arcade, or some other well known arcade)

Pyrolee (3rd Strike Yun) is easily willing to drive 1 hour and 10 minutes daily for years at a time just to play 3rd Strike.  His car caught on fire and his only concern was getting to play 3S.  (Yes Arlieth, I listen to Sub-Zero's podcasts, my life is in shambles)  He's comparable to the average Japanese player.

I think if more and more people put in as much, if not more, time and effort as Pyro, I believe we'd start seeing noticeable results within a decent amount of time.

There's other issues on our part too, say for example a lot of players hog strats and don't share, big egos, bad sportsmanship and attitudes, etc.

Hold a shitload more gatherings, record casual matches, analyze gameplay til the damn video is dry heaving nothingness, throw out pages upon pages of advice and suggestions to improving gameplay, give up your wife and child for gaming, stay a virgin, etc.

And most definitely none of that "your char is too low tier, pick someone better" BS.  Nothing kills morale and discourages quite as effectively as something along the lines of "winning is hopeless for your char no matter how good you are".  If advising someone frustrated with their progress is going to take effort and research on your part, then hell, do the research and put in the effort.

Just my 2 cents.

[NOTxNOT=NOT]

We don't believe.

[Devereaux]

Imitation will always lose out to invention.

[Harem]

We don't 2a enough.

[The6thFlame]

I want to break the barrier!

[mizuki]

It's actually pretty easy. We don't have an easy access to a huge arcade scene. And plus, they play ALL day. CvS2 player D44bas does NOT stop playing, he plays everyday, I don't think he has a job. So they get a chance to just play all day learning stuff, while we have to work and only get to play on the weekends really, and we're too widespread.

[Dipstick]

How about people aim for a more attainable goal. Something like being able to play an entire game of MB without dropping a combo... I think that would be a good start.

[Spirit Juice]

Or playing Starcraft. 

[pherai]

How about people aim for a more attainable goal. Something like being able to play an entire game of MB without dropping a combo... I think that would be a good start.

This is not only funny, but accurate. People rise to the level of their competition, and some people want it more than others. Practicing combos is one facet of how much you want to win, and how much your competition forces you to rise to their level. The standard of play in America is lower, so to get into mid level play requires less time, and so many players just get lazy once they are in the mid levels of competition. I think Japanese players don't even realize they are putting in much more work into getting better at games, they simply have a higher plateau to reach, while in America you can still place 12th even though you missed 5 or 6 opportunities.

[jocund]

I could agree with all of you about how we don't have easy access to arcades like japan does, we don't play all day, but you got to consider, Japanese players still travel far just to get to an arcade, they walk, take the train, or drive there in any sort of transportation. they wouldn't care less on how far they travel, but get to an arcade and practice. I understand that people live far away, have jobs, family and friends, hell I bet they practice with anybody for at least an hour. The problem I'm seeing is that WE lack communication. Japanese and Korean players share all sorts of strategies, from far across countries through any sort of communication. We can't expect for one player to do good in a SBO tournament, aka Teams, its all the players in that team that must be almost equally good enough to beat everybody. I don't mean to sound offensive to anybody, but we can't be jackasses that has a big ego, think they're the best, or hog all the strats to themselves.

[Arcrenciel]

I could agree with all of you about how we don't have easy access to arcades like japan does, we don't play all day, but you got to consider, Japanese players still travel far just to get to an arcade, they walk, take the train, or drive there in any sort of transportation. they wouldn't care less on how far they travel, but get to an arcade and practice. I understand that people live far away, have jobs, family and friends, hell I bet they practice with anybody for at least an hour. The problem I'm seeing is that WE lack communication. Japanese and Korean players share all sorts of strategies, from far across countries through any sort of communication. We can't expect for one player to do good in a SBO tournament, aka Teams, its all the players in that team that must be almost equally good enough to beat everybody. I don't mean to sound offensive to anybody, but we can't be jackasses that has a big ego, think they're the best, or hog all the strats to themselves.

There's not a snowball chance in hell that the strat sharing is going to get anything beyond basic stuff in terms of USA players.  Nobody except for a very very very select few are going to be willing to give away game winning strategies, really fine point character match up tips, and just real solid stuff to build off of.
On top of that, I highly doubt that anyone's going to go out of their way to help other players out with getting better.
No offense but from what I've seen, that's just the mentality of a vast majority of the players here, as it would mean that they just showed their opponent how to beat them and hence that player will now have to try even harder to win games and tournaments.

Nope, no dice.  Rather than rise up to meet the challenge with open arms, it seems that most players in the US would rather "suppress" competition for an easier victory.

[Kryojenix]

Japan is to gaming like Brazil is to soccer...U.S. ain't winning either

[Nandeyanen]

I could agree with all of you about how we don't have easy access to arcades like japan does, we don't play all day, but you got to consider, Japanese players still travel far just to get to an arcade, they walk, take the train, or drive there in any sort of transportation. they wouldn't care less on how far they travel, but get to an arcade and practice. I understand that people live far away, have jobs, family and friends, hell I bet they practice with anybody for at least an hour. The problem I'm seeing is that WE lack communication. Japanese and Korean players share all sorts of strategies, from far across countries through any sort of communication. We can't expect for one player to do good in a SBO tournament, aka Teams, its all the players in that team that must be almost equally good enough to beat everybody. I don't mean to sound offensive to anybody, but we can't be jackasses that has a big ego, think they're the best, or hog all the strats to themselves.

Actually, based on what I've seen, plenty of players are willing to drive/travel an hour or two to attend a session. The problem is that the US is rather large, and gaming groups can be regions apart (spending over 3 hours traveling to a session is a bit much). Unlike Japan, which has a fairly large player base that's concentrated in a few large areas, the US has a relatively small player base that's spread out in multiple small areas. Japanese players have easier access to strong players, and they can play against a diversity of play styles (which allows for them to develop more strategies and meta), while US players are limited to whomever plays nearby, which can sometimes just be 1 or 2 other people.

In regards to what you mentioned about a "lack of communication" and the "hogging of strats", I think that's a bit off. The forums are full of character information (keep in mind that we're limited by our player base, so if we have no ____ players, you can't expect any information to be there), there's a section for regional matchmaking, and plenty of experienced players are willing to help newer players improve (both on the forums and on irc). The information is there. The help is there. Most players just don't take advantage of that. Stronger players can help new players, but they can't play for them. And though there are players that don't share their strategies, there's no real need for them to, and I don't think it's all that different in Japan or Korea. I'm sure that plenty of professional players (probably the majority) don't go out of their way to tell everyone their winning strategies (unless they're being paid to, or it'll directly help them improve).

So, like many others have been saying, the problem is that the US is too large (and has crappy public transportation), and its player base is spread too thin. The ideal solution would be to create a duel city-like environment. Seriously. Now everybody move to Rhode Island.

[Arcrenciel]

I don't believe the problem lies solely in whether or not players are willing to drive an hour to attend a session.  Like I've been saying, it's dedication.  Do they ditch classes, midterms, and labs just to play at the arcade?  Do they take days off work to play?  Are sessions held every single day?  How long do said sessions last?

Actually I've come across quite a few players that majorly hog strats, so you'd be surprised.  A lot of top players in some of the fighting games I play have huge egos and rather than share knowledge, their only concern is winning and proving that they're better than everyone else.
And actually, the Koreans and Japanese do go pretty out of their way to share personal strategies and game winning tactics.  At least from what I know they have done so in the past.  K.O. coaching Pyrolee, Maddogjin and qudans coaching the US in Tekken, etc.

How much effort does the US put into raising our competitive standard as a collective? 
"(keep in mind that we're limited by our player base, so if we have no ____ players, you can't expect any information to be there)"
If we have no ___ players, it's time for people that play other characters to step up, pitch in, and help out, rather than the usual "nobody plays that char, tough shit for you man" treatment.

[Soniti]

There's not a snowball chance in hell that the strat sharing is going to get anything beyond basic stuff in terms of USA players.  Nobody except for a very very very select few are going to be willing to give away game winning strategies, really fine point character match up tips, and just real solid stuff to build off of.
On top of that, I highly doubt that anyone's going to go out of their way to help other players out with getting better.

What do you base that on? There are plenty of detailed guides on Melty Bread and people help others out with everything they know about their character fairly often in IRC. I haven't detected much in the way of holding back on info at all.

Anyway, agree with many of the points mentioned here, primarily those involving lower play level to practice against, lack of motivation to properly practice techniques, and lack of motivation to travel far to practice against different people.

[Arcrenciel]

There's not a snowball chance in hell that the strat sharing is going to get anything beyond basic stuff in terms of USA players.  Nobody except for a very very very select few are going to be willing to give away game winning strategies, really fine point character match up tips, and just real solid stuff to build off of.
On top of that, I highly doubt that anyone's going to go out of their way to help other players out with getting better.

What do you base that on? There are plenty of detailed guides on Melty Bread and people help others out with everything they know about their character fairly often in IRC. I haven't detected much in the way of holding back on info at all.

Anyway, agree with many of the points mentioned here, primarily those involving lower play level to practice against, lack of motivation to properly practice techniques, and lack of motivation to travel far to practice against different people.

I haven't gone on IRC and DaeDay managed to bug me enough to start playing this game less than a week ago, so I'm basing most of what I'm saying on what I've seen from the various fighting game communities I've been a part of.

The type of strat sharing I'm talking about is literally opening up your playbook and gameplan and showing the dude exactly what goes through your head, what bad habits you have, what you tend to do in matches, what they can abuse against you, etc.  Like I said, you're essentially telling them how to beat you, and forcing yourself to reformulate your strategy for victories.  I'm talking about something a step below practically playing the game for them.

[Sledeau]

What top players in NA MB hide their strats? All of them I've talked to seem pretty willing to share stuff if you ask specific questions.

Also, I believe the accessibility of arcades is the major playing factor. Sure, Japanese players put in tons of time into their games. That's because they can do that and keep their interest in the game. Look at online only games like WoW -- nearly infinitely accessible, and there are many people who put more hours into that game than a fulltime job.

[pherai]

I don't believe the problem lies solely in whether or not players are willing to drive an hour to attend a session.  Like I've been saying, it's dedication.  Do they ditch classes, midterms, and labs just to play at the arcade?  Do they take days off work to play?  Are sessions held every single day?  How long do said sessions last?

I don't think the problem lies in people not ditching the responsibilities in their life enough for fighting games. Japanese people work like 55+ hour work weeks. I don't think every top player in Japan is some homeless bum who only leaves the arcade to scrap for yen.

As far hogging strats, I wouldn't rule it out, but from my experience playing 3s, good players are usually there to share a tip if you meet them in arcades or a practice session. I don't expect them to start posting their phone numbers online or anything. I'd be interested in knowing some specifics about this claim.