Why can't America win SBO?

[F9|Chibi]

MB players in the states can't hog strats because that shit is almost always x-copied from youtube / vids.

And anything that's usually discovered is rarely held for personal use, because hell, what are they going to save it for?

MB's only had a real 'tournament' worthy scene for a little over a year now, so I guess if they're going to be hush hush about anything it'd be to save it for Evo World.

[Arcrenciel]

MB players in the states can't hog strats because that shit is almost always x-copied from youtube / vids.

And anything that's usually discovered is rarely held for personal use, because hell, what are they going to save it for?

MB's only had a real 'tournament' worthy scene for a little over a year now, so I guess if they're going to be hush hush about anything it'd be to save it for Evo World.

I wasn't specifically referring to MBAC players when I brought up strat hogging as I don't know enough about the community to reach such a conclusion yet.
OK, so MB players don't hog strats, we'll cross that one out.
I don't see being spread out as all that big of a factor.  I mean, SoCal's 3S community is relatively bundled up together up at FFA, yet how well has the USA done in SBOs for 3S?  Tekken's community is somewhat spread out, yet there are still specific groups of players: Norcal, FFA, Super Arcade/ Riverside, Texas, East Coast and USA doesn't do well in that game either.

So from what I can tell, it boils down to the USA just not having the same spirit and dedication for fighting games that Japan and Korea does.

Now my question is, how many people can honestly say that they dedicate at least four straight hours a day, every single day, or more to Melty Blood AC?  Four straight hours of practicing combos so you don't choke during tourney play, learning and re-learning the mechanics so every situation becomes second nature to you, analyzing videos to the core so you pickup strategies from foreign players, going through the trial and error of finding new setups or ideas that haven't been implemented yet, looking for small specific details in people's gameplay that could add up little by little, etc.
How much time and effort do you put in to this game?
Now compare that to how much time and effort someone like say.....Fatal1ty puts into Quake and the various FPSes that he plays.

[DJcream]

In response to people like Fatality and mainstream gaming, people like us DON'T GET PAID TO PLAY GAMES unlike those guys. Everyone on this board has either work or school or both that keeps them away from playing MBAC, a game that has yet to be accepted by the majority of the American fighting game scene.

As for us not doing well in SBO, it's pretty much the majority of Americans have a hard time exposing themselves to some of the tactics that Japanese players utilize. Our methods are pretty much outdated since it takes the hardcore (most of the time, crazy Japanese full-time players) to discover a new exploit/tactic to be debuted in a major tournament.

[asdfqwer]

US:
Arcade - $.75~$1.50 a game. Mostly empty. Many still have tekken 3.
Internet Cafe - $3.00~$5.00 an hour

Korea:
Arcade - $.10~$.20 a game. Crowded.
Internet Cafe - $1.00 an hour

Considering that Koreans comparably ($ to korean money conversion, cost of living comparison. etc) make as much as Americans.....  :'( :'( :'(

Dunno about Japan though.

[Keith]

We don't get hype enough, clearly.

[DarkSaint]

Life is more important than games. Especially in America. If this was a valid career choice for us it would probably be different, but since its not we will never be as hardcore into it as our Asian counterparts.

[Arcrenciel]

pffft bull
there's nothing more important than games
screw a job and school, making a living off of money matches and tourney prizes ftw

honestly though, I believe Korean and Japanese fighting gamers don't get paid for playing 3S or whatever they play either.  Hell, SBO prize money isn't even all that much if I'm remembering correctly.  They play at SBO for the bragging rights and dedicate their lives to the game because they choose to, they have that passion for it.

qudans and Knee are both now in the military, Jang Iksu (the best Tekken player of all time, period) moved on from Tekken to freestyle inline skating (I doubt he makes a fortune doing that), Souten (best Yoshimitsu in the world) moved on to other things in life, etc.

Forgive all the Tekken references, as you can see, it's my main game.

[Sledeau]

Life is more important than games. Especially in America. If this was a valid career choice for us it would probably be different, but since its not we will never be as hardcore into it as our Asian counterparts.

Bullshit. There are tons of people out there who played games like World of Warcraft and Counterstrike so much that they have little time for much else. America (and Canada, countries, Europe) is just centered around games with Internet accessibility rather than arcade games. There is much less of a "pro tournament, get paid by sponsors" scene, but people play games just as much.

And if you're talking about games in general...look at pro American football and basketball.

Speaking of pro gamers, do top players in Japan even have sponsors, or do most of them just live off of parents/live off a shitty part time job and a place with cheap rent? Or do they somehow mix their arcade time in with a career/college?

[pherai]

In response to people like Fatality and mainstream gaming, people like us DON'T GET PAID TO PLAY GAMES unlike those guys. Everyone on this board has either work or school or both that keeps them away from playing MBAC, a game that has yet to be accepted by the majority of the American fighting game scene.

Haha, you make an excuse like you just got caught without your homework done.

[F9|Chibi]

@ Arcrenciel:

Dedication?

What are you getting at guy?

We're talking about two entirely different cultures at work here.

I wish you'd stop before you actually end up insulting some of us who have been been dedicated to this game for a good half decade now.

[Psylocke]

Life is more important than games. Especially in America. If this was a valid career choice for us it would probably be different, but since its not we will never be as hardcore into it as our Asian counterparts.

Bullshit. There are tons of people out there who played games like World of Warcraft and Counterstrike so much that they have little time for much else. America (and Canada, countries, Europe) is just centered around games with Internet accessibility rather than arcade games. There is much less of a "pro tournament, get paid by sponsors" scene, but people play games just as much.

And if you're talking about games in general...look at pro American football and basketball.

Speaking of pro gamers, do top players in Japan even have sponsors, or do most of them just live off of parents/live off a shitty part time job and a place with cheap rent? Or do they somehow mix their arcade time in with a career/college?

Not really sure if it was 100% true, but from some of the accounts of gamers that have visited Japan(Elvenshadow, Destin, etc), many of the top Japanese players lead fairly normal lives.  A lot of them are out of school already and have jobs, so basically their daily routine is to wake up, go to work, go to the arcades afterwards, and then go home and sleep.

Also, you have to consider that the density of arcades in Japan is much higher than it is here.  I remember there was a part in Elvenshadow's blog where he was talking to some of the GG players at a tournament he attended, and he told them that he traveled 2-3 hours by train to get there, and described just how shocked they were.  Traveling 2-3 hours, or even flying for a tournament is pretty standard for getting to tournaments in the US, with the lack of competition and how spread out most of us are, but I guess in Japan where there is good competition everywhere and the nearest arcade is like half an hour away at max, traveling for that long of a period isn't necessary.  

[jocund]

pffft bull
there's nothing more important than games
screw a job and school, making a living off of money matches and tourney prizes ftw

honestly though, I believe Korean and Japanese fighting gamers don't get paid for playing 3S or whatever they play either.  Hell, SBO prize money isn't even all that much if I'm remembering correctly.  They play at SBO for the bragging rights and dedicate their lives to the game because they choose to, they have that passion for it.

You don't win anything in SBO besides a trophy and the Title, saying you the guy who won SBO!

[dakanya]

Life is more important than games. Especially in America. If this was a valid career choice for us it would probably be different, but since its not we will never be as hardcore into it as our Asian counterparts.

Bullshit. There are tons of people out there who played games like World of Warcraft and Counterstrike so much that they have little time for much else. America (and Canada, countries, Europe) is just centered around games with Internet accessibility rather than arcade games. There is much less of a "pro tournament, get paid by sponsors" scene, but people play games just as much.

And if you're talking about games in general...look at pro American football and basketball.

Speaking of pro gamers, do top players in Japan even have sponsors, or do most of them just live off of parents/live off a shitty part time job and a place with cheap rent? Or do they somehow mix their arcade time in with a career/college?

Not really sure if it was 100% true, but from some of the accounts of gamers that have visited Japan(Elvenshadow, Destin, etc), many of the top Japanese players lead fairly normal lives.  A lot of them are out of school already and have jobs, so basically their daily routine is to wake up, go to work, go to the arcades afterwards, and then go home and sleep.

Also, you have to consider that the density of arcades in Japan is much higher than it is here.  I remember there was a part in Elvenshadow's blog where he was talking to some of the GG players at a tournament he attended, and he told them that he traveled 2-3 hours by train to get there, and described just how shocked they were.  Traveling 2-3 hours, or even flying for a tournament is pretty standard for getting to tournaments in the US, with the lack of competition and how spread out most of us are, but I guess in Japan where there is good competition everywhere and the nearest arcade is like half an hour away at max, traveling for that long of a period isn't necessary. 

What Psylocke says is true. Don't tell me you assumed the Japanese threw away their lives for video games.

[DarkSaint]

What I was saying is that most Americans(not all) are motivated by money. You tell a gamer he can make at least $30,000 a year playing games and which one of us who got that offer would even go outside anymore(not literally, but you know what I mean). If the arcade scene was bigger over here(instead of just MvsC2 MagnoSentiDoom)a lot of us would dedicate more time into the little nuances. Most of us only have but so many people that play in our state(I wish I lived in Cali)if there were more it would be a given that it would spread and you would have even more people that want to get better. People in Japan have more access to competition. In order for me to get better I have to netplay and hope the person I'm facing is better than me(and hopefully not too much lag)and will beat my bad tendencies out of me. I live in Jersey(there are supposed to be people that play out here but this state is so damn big)I don't know any arcades out here that have a Melty game anywhere. It's only 3 machines of M Vs. C 2 that everyone plays and no one will even touch anything else. Don't get me wrong on what I was saying earlier, since I started playing i have devoted a few hours a day to the game(even if I'm not playing I'm watching vids or I'm on here)but, not everyone can or is willing to do that.

[Arcrenciel]

@ Arcrenciel:

Dedication?

What are you getting at guy?

We're talking about two entirely different cultures at work here.

I wish you'd stop before you actually end up insulting some of us who have been been dedicated to this game for a good half decade now.

Ok, I'll stop now then.

Darksaint kinda has what I was trying to say, so I'll take his post and run with it.

[Sledeau]

Life is more important than games. Especially in America. If this was a valid career choice for us it would probably be different, but since its not we will never be as hardcore into it as our Asian counterparts.

Bullshit. There are tons of people out there who played games like World of Warcraft and Counterstrike so much that they have little time for much else. America (and Canada, countries, Europe) is just centered around games with Internet accessibility rather than arcade games. There is much less of a "pro tournament, get paid by sponsors" scene, but people play games just as much.

And if you're talking about games in general...look at pro American football and basketball.

Speaking of pro gamers, do top players in Japan even have sponsors, or do most of them just live off of parents/live off a shitty part time job and a place with cheap rent? Or do they somehow mix their arcade time in with a career/college?

Not really sure if it was 100% true, but from some of the accounts of gamers that have visited Japan(Elvenshadow, Destin, etc), many of the top Japanese players lead fairly normal lives.  A lot of them are out of school already and have jobs, so basically their daily routine is to wake up, go to work, go to the arcades afterwards, and then go home and sleep.

Also, you have to consider that the density of arcades in Japan is much higher than it is here.  I remember there was a part in Elvenshadow's blog where he was talking to some of the GG players at a tournament he attended, and he told them that he traveled 2-3 hours by train to get there, and described just how shocked they were.  Traveling 2-3 hours, or even flying for a tournament is pretty standard for getting to tournaments in the US, with the lack of competition and how spread out most of us are, but I guess in Japan where there is good competition everywhere and the nearest arcade is like half an hour away at max, traveling for that long of a period isn't necessary. 

What Psylocke says is true. Don't tell me you assumed the Japanese threw away their lives for video games.

It'd be easy to assume that when you see Korean Starcraft players. However, they have sponsors, which is basically the wage they make for playing the game.

I'll admit I was probably using too extreme of examples. Its certainly possible to put 8+ hours into a game a day and hold a fulltime job. Its not like every Japanese person is working 60 hours a week, though that's the stereotype I had in my head.

Anyways, I'm forgetting what I was trying to argue. I'm getting the sense we weren't really arguing about anything at all.

[Lord Knight]

US:
Arcade - $.75~$1.50 a game. Mostly empty. Many still have tekken 3.
Internet Cafe - $3.00~$5.00 an hour

Korea:
Arcade - $.10~$.20 a game. Crowded.
Internet Cafe - $1.00 an hour

Considering that Koreans comparably ($ to korean money conversion, cost of living comparison. etc) make as much as Americans.....  :'( :'( :'(

Dunno about Japan though.

You do have rare exceptions like UP. It is .50 a game, and really crowded at night. I wish more arcades were like this. Also there is dinner/arcade things like D&B, but those are lacking as far as fighting games go.

[DarkSaint]

It'd be easy to assume that when you see Korean Starcraft players. However, they have sponsors, which is basically the wage they make for playing the game.

I'll admit I was probably using too extreme of examples. Its certainly possible to put 8+ hours into a game a day and hold a fulltime job. Its not like every Japanese person is working 60 hours a week, though that's the stereotype I had in my head.

Anyways, I'm forgetting what I was trying to argue. I'm getting the sense we weren't really arguing about anything at all.
[/quote]

Edited for space. LOL, I really don't think there was ever an argument. Maybe someone should research exactly how many hours a day the pro japanese players put in and what are the other things that they do on a daily basis. Also, where are the Jersey players?(if only I could find them)

[pherai]

I'll admit I was probably using too extreme of examples. Its certainly possible to put 8+ hours into a game a day and hold a fulltime job. Its not like every Japanese person is working 60 hours a week, though that's the stereotype I had in my head.

It's an accurate stereotype, at least for white collar careers. My girlfriends dad works for a Japanese company and often tells me about the work ethic of Japanese people (and how it, unfortunately, is also carried over to him). I hear the primary motivation for such long work weeks is to dissuage gaijin from moving there 

[c-nero 5[c]]

If america was the size of japan and melty was released there, then you'd be good enough to enter SBO. Maybe not win it but you could certainly do well there.

There's no way to save EU though. All the countries have borders so travelling is even harder than for you US guys.

[jocund]

Btw I thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions, because I actually feel that some people who dreamed of going to Japan and play against the best don't have the right dedication from the start or cooperation. Just my thoughts...

[FireBearHero]

Btw I thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions, because I actually feel that some people who dreamed of going to Japan and play against the best don't have the right dedication from the start or cooperation. Just my thoughts...

Your definition of "dedication" and "cooperation" are way off the map. It takes a lot more dedication on the part of US players than it does for Japanese players who can just go to the arcade.
It's not as though we aren't as good as them, either. We just lack the player base size to put out more good players. You know what? I would smoke you. You'll find out what dedication is really quickly when it's knocking on your face.

[jocund]

Btw I thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions, because I actually feel that some people who dreamed of going to Japan and play against the best don't have the right dedication from the start or cooperation. Just my thoughts...

Your definition of "dedication" and "cooperation" are way off the map. It takes a lot more dedication on the part of US players than it does for Japanese players who can just go to the arcade.
It's not as though we aren't as good as them, either. We just lack the player base size to put out more good players. You know what? I would smoke you. You'll find out what dedication is really quickly when it's knocking on your face.

dude i'm not challenging anyone, so don't even go there, I'm not talking trash to no one, so please keep that to yourself.

[HeartNana]

Wow, nobody gave the easier answer:
Cause there's a ton of Japanese people in SBO and only one American?

By statistics alone the American most likely wont win.

Then you have to factor everything else in. Why don't girls generally win tourneys? Cause if a girl is there, she's probably completely outnumbered anyways. Being a girl AND being really good is much harder than just being really good or being a girl at a tourney.

Same with SBO. Its hard enough winning SBO for anyone, but to be American and win is way harder.

[Soniti]

Japanese arcade fighting game prices vary from 50 yen for 3/5 rounds to 100 yen for 2/3 rounds. When I was in Akihabara in summer '07 all the machines were set to 100 yen for 2/3, but on the other hand the competition there was pretty intense even on a Sunday afternoon/evening. I didn't see a single out-of-order machine in the entire 7-8 floor arcade, nor did any joysticks/buttons appear to have issues.

Note that the exchange rate is approximately 120 yen per $1.