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Author Topic: MBAACC Akiha  (Read 14122 times)

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Offline Psylocke

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MBAACC Akiha
« on: August 06, 2010, 03:02:29 PM »
Thanks to sibladeko and Curbeh for the translations of changes in Arcadia

C-Akiha:
J2C - Hitbox expanded upward
623B - Last hit hitbox Expanded
4C - Prorate higher

F-Akiha:
4C - Weaker
22A - Vector, charge time, guard damage lowered (By charge time I think it means duration)
Damage universally lowered
421A disappears when doing an Arc Drive(no more unblockable setup)

H-Akiha:
236B - Start up and recovery better
4C - Prorate larger
5A6A - Prorate larger(universal halfmoon nerf)
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Offline Ryd

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2010, 10:46:30 AM »
F-Akiha:
421A disappears when doing an Arc Drive(no more unblockable setup)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVsPBNC0mmA#t=5m12s

UB setup is still in :-\
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Offline Sdj

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 09:28:39 PM »
F-Akiha:
421A disappears when doing an Arc Drive(no more unblockable setup)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVsPBNC0mmA#t=5m12s

UB setup is still in :-\

nah it's looks to me that 412A hit's becourse he attemps a jump out then arc drive just combo's into it. if he blocked it wouldn't grab him.

on the other hand it's still a mix up due to the fact you  can miss time a 421A and arc drive grab or just let the 421A hit.
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Offline Ryd

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 12:34:23 AM »
nah it's looks to me that 412A hit's becourse he attemps a jump out then arc drive just combo's into it. if he blocked it wouldn't grab him.

on the other hand it's still a mix up due to the fact you  can miss time a 421A and arc drive grab or just let the 421A hit.

I haven't seen any documented change to the frame data on 421A (the documented change was 421A disappearing if the AD is input, which clearly isn't the case), and the AD still functions the same; that also isn't the only vid where the unblockable setup's been done, it was just the first one I'd found at the time.  The reason it looks exceptionally tight is because Ries gets up really damn slowly, which throws the timing off.  You can see Bonta briefly return to neutral instead of going straight into the AD as soon as possible, so it could've come out faster; it's just that if it had, it probably would have caught Ries in the throw-invulnerable frames on wake up and failed.  The only thing that's changed is allowing 421A to be IH'd, which let you do the unblockable from anywhere; that was removed in the Arcade -> PS2 balancing; i.e. the unblockable can still be done, but with the restrictions that the U.S. players have learned to deal with.

There isn't any reason to mistime the setup; you always want the AD to grab just before the knot hits since the AD will grab opponents in the air (depending on spacing) or in hitstun.  The knot is there to close off escape; unless the opponent has a move to go invincible through the grab and land behind Akiha without getting hit by the rest of the AD, they aren't escaping the setup without taking damage.  In a worst-case scenario, it doesn't matter if the opponent is able to jump early (usually poor timing/spacing on the Akiha player's part) and block the first part of the AD, as the knot will guard crush them, and Akiha can follow up with a combo (depending on spacing) into knockdown with oki.
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Offline Sdj

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 09:03:16 PM »
ahhh. i see, misunderstood so the changes state it like this.
- 421A setup
into Arc drive
- opp. stays put and AD activates
- 421A disapears and does not add damage nor combo
correct?

UB setup is same otherwise

Watched some more vids lately as well just to see if my statement above was the case. i'm thinking the latter of your opinion is more precise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L4vT5i1dUs

around 9:30 the F-Akiha.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 09:07:21 PM by Sdj »
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Offline Funky-kun

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2011, 04:49:54 PM »
In 1.07 C-Akiha has BE236A. Seems to have increased range. Not sure how useful it is for pressure or zoning.
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Offline Cristu

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 11:40:26 AM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15940541

At 17:02 of this video the player tries to use it for combo, but drops it (too far). It gives a good untechable time like C-Kohaku's 6C. Maybe in the corner it has loop potential =o
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Offline AnFox

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2011, 09:28:36 AM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15982226

Akiha seems to have a BE2C. Also cool combos in the match against the kohaku.
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Offline ehrik

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2011, 10:18:02 AM »
BE ground ribbon is hugeeee, and the loop using it was pretty cool
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Offline Benny1

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2011, 10:54:58 AM »
holy shit, one does not backdash against Akiha when she has that gigantic ribbon.
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Offline AnFox

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 06:57:45 PM »
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Offline Funky-kun

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 09:32:39 PM »
It seems H-Akiha's j236 series can be delayed now (I guess by charging). This is great, a nifty boost to her already deadly corner game. Now making people sit in place while you fuzzy them will be a lot easier.

Also, I just tested in PS2 and the fuzzy is doable from jump 9 jB(1) - no dash momentum needed, as jB blocked has less pushback than jC blocked. Should work the same way in 1.07 (at least I hope so). So basically it is doable from any jump in if they block the jB low. But it's a very tight link.
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2011, 12:19:11 PM »
http://youtu.be/rJ8FWLqt5zw#t=12m53s

Hype? Unfair? How'd he block that etc? Thoughts!?
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 03:58:03 PM »
Looked like it was air tight, so he got the cross-up protection and then never came out of block stun for the jA to hit cross-up. Prolly would have hit had the j2C wiffed. Still hype.

Offline Sahgren

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 04:56:43 PM »
I'm willing to put that down as really good blocking.

C-grabbing him out of 214C after that was funny, though I do have to question why they went for 214C in the first place.

Offline 7thfonon

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2011, 05:42:12 PM »
He definitely just blocked that straight up. The j2C was originally a crossup to begin with, so there was no crossup protection....

But you know you got some serious mixups when you're catching people on youtube with them. xD  :laffo:

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2011, 07:12:07 PM »
He definitely just blocked that straight up. The j2C was originally a crossup to begin with, so there was no crossup protection....

I'm pretty sure that's not the way cross-up's work in melty. I'm pretty sure that you have to block the same direction the opponent faces. Not sure if it matters which way your char is facing or not. (Some one correct me, or be more precise.)

Regardless of direction he had to block the j2C, if the string was air tight, then he just had to block the jA high, in whatever direction he was already blocking, to not get hit. If it was not air tight, the fact that the j2C hit means he had more time to notice that it was a cross-up and block the other way for the IH jA. But, I think that the IH jA would have caught him switching, which is why I think it was air tight.

I've blocked strings like this in the 'wrong' direction before (even gone to neutral 5 or 2 input), simply because the other guy never staggered after crossing me up. Not only special ground cross-ups, but also jump in cross-ups.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFa7EbgdLHA#t=7m50s

Offline AnFox

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 07:43:27 PM »
http://youtu.be/rJ8FWLqt5zw#t=12m53s
j2C isnt an overhead but it CAN cross up, the IH gives you another setup for either and airdash jA/jC or AD setup (if you let the blockstun end that is).

Credit to Roku for randomly posting that in here, cause I know everyone is going to forget about it. Honestly if he wanted damage, he should have done 412B IH AD.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 07:57:03 PM »
j2C isnt an overhead but it CAN cross up

So, why can it?

Offline AnFox

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2011, 08:38:53 PM »
j2C isnt an overhead but it CAN cross up

So, why can it?

If done high enough it can cause a left/right situation because of the awkwardness of the hitbox seen above.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2011, 09:28:46 PM »
I think you miss-understood my question. I know the hit box allows you to hit even if you crossed up, like any air move that has a red box under or on both sides of the collision box, but why must I block it 'correctly' if it does? Are we using the same definition of the word cross-up? I mean cross-up like a SF4 cross-up, meaning that you have to block the opposite side the move hits. I thought melty did not have those, and that's why I'm asking why can it hit cross-up. What makes this move hit cross-up, a 'must block correctly like SF4' cross-up, when a move like H-VSion jB/j2B wont? Is it just char specific to F-Akiha or is it a more general property?

Offline ehrik

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2011, 09:33:04 PM »
Yeah Tim is right, I'm fairly certain the j.2c didn't have to be blocked correctly but the j.a afterwards had to

pretty sure what tim said was also correct; he pressed j.a too early while ries was still in blockstun so it blocked for him.
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Offline AnFox

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2011, 10:06:19 PM »
I actually want to test this because I've been trying to recall if j2C actually breaks the rules of cross-up protection. I'll try to get a timely response asap since I dont have my PS2. orz.
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Offline 7thfonon

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2011, 12:58:03 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFa7EbgdLHA#t=7m50s

After reading your other explanation, you could be right...  Though I already expected something like Roa's 236B to have crossup protection (hits one way first, crosses over, and attacks before blockstun is over).... That's the kind of crossup protection I'm used to seeing from my experience with other games.... But not stuff where the first actual attack is a crossover... Though I guess it's something specific to Melty.

EDIT : Tested it on the PS2 Melty. Looks like even with the jA, you can block it either way as long as it's high. D:
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 01:22:06 AM by 7thfonon »

Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAACC Akiha
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2011, 08:04:34 AM »
Tested it on the PS2 Melty. Looks like even with the jA, you can block it either way as long as it's high. D:

Yeah that's cross-up protection. I'm not sure why the game makers put it in, but they prolly wanted cross-ups to be more work/set-up/slower like overheads in Melty. Maybe it has something to do with 623 inputs coming out as 214 inputs in cross-up situations most of the time. With the Roa example I gave, I was more trying to demonstrate that in an air tight block string, you can go to nutral/block the other way, and not get hit for it.

In the case originally posted by Roku, the Ries had corss-up protection from the j2C, even though she woke-up facing the right way. The jA would have had to been blocked correctly, if she came out of block stun from the j2C, because the IH turned the Akiha around. But it looked air tight, like the Roa example I gave. The Ries could have just gone to neutral and it still would have blocked, as long as she did not input 1, 2, or 3, and maybe 7, 8, 9, but I'm not sure about those.

I'm not sure if it's possible for the Akiha to even set this up, but my 1st guess would be that she was trying to wiff the j2C by doing it too early, so that the IH jA would hit cross-up. Or she just wanted to meaty and IH and not get hit, and that's as far as the thought went. Or she messed up some other IH set-up she was going for and then improvised. :mystery:

Still hype btw.

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