Author Topic: Crescent Moon Akiha (Read 25649 times)

dakanya · « **Reply #25 on:** February 15, 2010, 02:16:04 PM »

Your wording sounds kind of awkward. So are you saying that you can punish all directions with one punish or no??

CT_Warrior · « **Reply #26 on:** February 15, 2010, 02:53:53 PM »

It punishes alll except for neutral tech, but there's not much incentive to neutral tech as the opponent since it's risky.

You're covering 75% of your opponent's options completely solidly with at least 600-700 more damage and meter.
The other 25%, you lose EX pit but deal 600 more damage with extra meter, including the meter that you didn't use for EX pit.

dakanya · « **Reply #27 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:25:34 PM »

neutral tech is the best tech 'cause that's the one where you guess right and hit them, mad diss. of course there's incentive to neutral tech and because they cant cover it along with forward tech, there's even more incentive to try it. i neutral teched hisui j.bb all day just 'cause i was a dick like that and it was extremely hard for hisui to punish akiha's neutral tech in mbac.

anyways i finish testing the new corner combo and did a little testing on the midscreen combo. probably taking a break for a while now or something. editing old post and adding to wiki

CT_Warrior · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2010, 04:24:59 PM »

The gap isn't big enough to get mashed out since you'll react to it and input moves faster, so they'll be forced to block.
And it's not like neutral tech is a weakness to the j2C setup, just that particular punish. If you mix up the punishes you use, it'd be too risky to tech.

It's a bad idea to neutral tech Hisui's jBB setups btw, even if you're Akiha in MBAC. It's just 2A2C instead of 5A2C.
Akiha's j2C setups in MBAA are better than Hisui's jBB setups in MBAC/MBAA in terms of reward and risk.

The j2C setup is -definitely- better than going for 63214A knockdown unless you need another chance at a mixup to finish them.

dakanya · « **Reply #29 on:** February 15, 2010, 04:27:52 PM »

if that's true they'll be forced to block only if they try to mash something. however they could neutral tech into the following options as well: dodge, backdash, anything with invulnerability.

this setup really only works under the assumption that you can instill the fear in your opponent to not tech and also you should have another punish planned for the second bounce in the case that your neutral tech punish whiffs

i will neutral tech hisui all day into 623b until i start getting hit with 2a2c

CT_Warrior · « **Reply #30 on:** February 15, 2010, 05:24:17 PM »

Well actually, I want my opponent to tech, just not the direction that I'm not covering.

The chances are against him by far.

If they don't want to tech, then I get free damage and meter.
If they want to tech every once in a while, I still get free damage and meter, and have a 1/2 chance to rack in some serious damage. They have a 1/2 chance of weakening oki, possibly getting out of pressure, or landing a weak reversal with no guarantee it'll work depending on how well you react. Dodge and backdash would probably lose to the tech punish setup anyway.

The chances that they'll do risky things like that are less likely than if you had a flamepit already out on them too.

dakanya · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2010, 12:29:14 AM »

I dunno I think you're pulling these chances and statistics out of your ass, you're so optimistic! And yes, of course you would want more free damage.

Alright, this time for sure, I think I'm done with the C-Akiha wiki. I didn't expect to spend a week on this. Will be moving on to other characters...

CT_Warrior · « **Reply #32 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:41:39 PM »

I counted forward and back tech as the same tech since they're punished the same way, and there's not much reason to backtech anyway.

One setup covers forward/back and no tech.
One setup covers neutral and no tech.

If they don't tech, it's guaranteed free damage with EX pit.
1/2 chance for 5k when they tech either forward or neutral and you guess right.
1/2 chance for guessing wrong and still having advantage.

Attempting j2C setup alone gives you free 600 damage and meter.

Ryd · « **Reply #33 on:** February 27, 2010, 02:12:04 PM »

Some things about corner combos:

From the wiki:
2AA or j.2C 6C 4C 5B 2B 2C (2A) 2A 2C 5C 5C 2C 5BEB 4C 63214A

If you do the 2AA starter, you have to whiff 5A to continue the combo. This can be problematic depending on spacing; if you started it from as close as possible, there's a chance the 5A will hit instead of whiff (at least on VSion), which really sucks when you're going for something stylish like that combo. If you start it from a little bit away from the opponent, the 5A whiffs and everything follows. For extra style points and a bit of extra damage, you can tak on (2A) 2A 2C before the 5BEB; but you have to catch them a bit high off the 5C 2C portion, otherwise they faceplant before 5BEB hits and you look like an idiot. May not work on everyone due to funny hitboxes and gravity at that point.

dakanya · « **Reply #34 on:** February 28, 2010, 12:12:03 PM »

(5A) ?? when/where? I am confused.

Ryd · « **Reply #35 on:** February 28, 2010, 12:24:59 PM »

2AA or j.2C 6C 4C 5B 2B 2C (2A) 2A 2C 5C 5C 2C 5BEB 4C 63214A

Bolded the relevant portions. If you start with 2AA, you can't whiff cancel the 2C with 2A.

dakanya · « **Reply #36 on:** February 28, 2010, 12:35:25 PM »

ah i wasn't sure if you actually meant that or not :slowbro:

hmm sorry i indeed did not test with 2AA at all since i didn't really expect to land this combo at all starting from 2AA since it is a croucher only combo. thanks, i will push the change to the wiki

just as a note, another thing that needs further testing is the OTG strings on raw 2C, i only tested them on 623B. ie the ryougi otg is not going to work off of a raw 2C just found out last night

Tech Romancer · « **Reply #37 on:** March 08, 2010, 10:31:39 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ4Je_Af9Y8

Practice session we had today; starting to work on the small stuff Dakanya was telling me on SRK (more comments in the vid description). I missed out on some damage on the 214B and J.236B by going with j.b, j.c, I keep forgetting I can follow up better with 2C, 5B, or whatever, I'm like, "Gonna miss my CH damage, must jump"! I really need to get out of that habit.

But yeah, feeling a lot more comfortable; I was seriously messing up earlier in our session because I've been practicing my C-mech; that's all the mains I'm sticking with for this game and I cannot understand people that play/alternate every character - just makes them overall weaker imo, but that's just me.

Ryd · « **Reply #38 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:34:21 PM »

Aside from what you noted, you should work on her corner combos; they leave you in a better situation for setting up oki (high/low/throw/crossup/EX flame pit). Your corner blockstrings also seemed a bit long. Pushing yourself out so far gives V.Sion enough time to get out while you're trying to get back in; as she's faster, you don't really want that. You should also be using EX flame pit over the A/B versions when you can afford the meter for it, better drain and enough +frames on block to do whatever you want. Incorporating instant j2C would help out, too. The lack of command throw blockstring gimmicks or even general use makes me sad, but that's just me.

Tech Romancer · « **Reply #39 on:** March 09, 2010, 03:25:40 AM »

Yeah, you're right I should have used EX version over A/B; I had plenty of meter so there is no excuse.

I will also take care to shorten blockstrings in the corner.

To be honest, I could really never get used to working the command grab into my game; just never felt right to me. Is it absolutely essential? If so, what are some set-ups (I'm talking about outside of combos) that your Akiha uses for it? Thanks for the help BTW

Ryd · « **Reply #40 on:** March 09, 2010, 04:20:14 AM »

I wouldn't say it's essential outside of combos, but I like it as it destroys a good amount of the opponent's red health, and gives you a bit of health back. The EX version also makes for a gimmicky reversal, as it has invincibility on it and can catch all kinds of things.

I generally try to mix in the command throw with staggered block strings.

On crouchers that 5A whiffs on, you can do a quick 2A (5A) A.throw
2A 2A B.throw/slight pause A.throw
2A, slight pause, A.throw
2A 5B B.throw (you need to delay the input on the throw by a hair or they won't get caught by it).

And you can always sub it in for the normal throw any time you have the time for its input; EX version for poke-proofing if you have the meter and are doing run-up-throw or something. You want to go easy on the B version, as it telegraphs its startup with a fairly unique animation. Of course, these are only for people who have a measure of respect for your pressure. If your opponent's poking at every minor gap, then you're better off focusing on staggering pokes for free combos.

Frank The Tank · « **Reply #41 on:** March 09, 2010, 05:52:43 AM »

Imo EX command grab is essential to playing C-Akiha. It's invincible, so it's a good reversal, and you can't jump out of it after the flash. Making people afraid of this move will make them scared to block, which adds way more to your mixup. Unless you're in max near the end of the bar, it's the only EX I use with this character (at the end of the bar I might try to set a EX pit after a corner combo; coincidentally, EX pit is set up perfectly by a command grab). The A command grab is only to be used once your opponent has been conditioned to sit there, normally by doing proper staggers and punishing escapes (things you should be doing regardless). In general, you'll only be doing the A grab against better opponents, as they're the ones that are most likely to be blocking for longer periods of time. The EX grab is good vs. everyone tho.

Tech Romancer · « **Reply #42 on:** March 09, 2010, 06:06:20 AM »

Quote from: Ryd. on March 09, 2010, 04:20:14 AM

If your opponent's poking at every minor gap, then you're better off focusing on staggering pokes for free combos.

See, that's the problem. Besides Tanner most of the time these guys love 2A on wakeup; they always think I'm going for the throw and to be fair - I do throw a lot. But we're meeting up on Wednesday, I'm going to try implementing it in my game again and using some of your set-ups; we'll see how it goes.

dakanya · « **Reply #43 on:** March 23, 2010, 06:27:35 PM »

It seems that the midscreen 2C loop combo doesn't always require 2AAAA but I don't know which characters it's OK on. I remember needing 2AAAA on the character I was first testing but on some characters, 2AAA is OK.

Ryd · « **Reply #44 on:** March 23, 2010, 07:16:15 PM »

Yeah; for V.Sion at least, you need to make sure the hitcount is at least 9 after 5BB for the combo to follow through. jB(2) 2A works for setting up the loop in the corner; possibly midscreen, too, but you'd probably have to be really deep, and I'm too tired to test atm.

I love the 5BB 2C loops, but they don't seem as practical as they could be (mid screen, at least), needing you to start the combo really deep to get the necessary hitcount for gravity $:-\$ At least the midscreen combo that was in that recent combo vid:

2A 2A 2A 5C 4C 6C 5BB 2C (2A) 2A 5C 2C (5B)B 2C (2A) 2A 2A 2C (5B)B 6C 2C 5BB 2C [5B] 4C 63214A

Ryd · « **Reply #45 on:** April 12, 2010, 07:55:33 PM »

Dakanya, I was playing with this combo from the wiki:

2AAAA 5C 4C 6C 5BB 2C (2A) 2A 2C 5BEB 4C 63214A

On Ryougi, this alternate finisher was listed:

2C delay 623B instead of 2C 5BEB 4C 63214A

Just wanted to point out that the normal finisher should work if you cut the start of the combo to three 2As instead of four. Made a note in the wiki, but it seems a bit rude to adjust your work without saying anything in case you'd like to format it to conform with your work, so yeah.

dakanya · « **Reply #46 on:** April 12, 2010, 09:22:54 PM »

nah go for it, I rarely play C-Akiha anyways, feel free to edit my work as fit. it actually works with 4 2As too its just really hard for me but YAT can do it lol

sumbody · « **Reply #47 on:** May 25, 2010, 06:08:46 AM »

Just something I did mention.

C/H Akiha 2BBB actually is pretty useful when used sparingly. Even on block, the overhead hit can be jump cancelled, so you can do 2BBB IAD jX to reset pressure. And if your opponent starts shielding it high, there's always 2BB 2C to beat it, and if they are scared enough you can actually dash in for free after 2BB.

So in C moon you can do a string like 2A (5B) 2BBB IAD jA j236A land tkj2C into full combo if you opponent doesn't expect it. or just go straight from IAD jA into j2C before landing. When you opponent is scared enough, you can even run stuff like jA j236B j2C on the way down or dash in resets to keep the pressure on.

In H moon its pretty much just a pressure reset tool, for more tick throw chances. You might catch people off guard with a jC/jB during the IAD but its pretty easily blocked.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Ryd · « **Reply #48 on:** May 25, 2010, 09:21:38 AM »

Too long to start up. 2BBB is one of the most heavily telegraphed overheads in existence, and it's not hard to block low until you see Akiha going airborne and diving at your face, and then backdash/shield/anti air/whatever. You might get some gimmicks off with that once, maybe twice; but once people realize you can jc it, but you're also helpless once you commit to it, you're not going to get away with it.

sumbody · « **Reply #49 on:** May 25, 2010, 09:30:39 AM »

I agree with its shortcomings, but its probably something worth trying like once in a match lol. Just the wiki makes it sound like its utter shit, perhaps a line like 'if you accidentally do 2BBB, IAD cancel it to continue pressure or IABD for neutral' would be more appropriate.

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Author Topic: Crescent Moon Akiha (Read 25649 times)