Crescent Moon Akiha

[dakanya]

Hello, I'm the guy doing all the writing on the C-Akiha wiki, check it out if you haven't yet. I'd like to thank Psylocke for writing his MBAC guide but I don't know how much of it will be left when I'm done! I'd also like to thank bellreisa for graciously providing his resources to the scene.

http://mbaa.mizuumi.net/index.php/Akiha_Tohno

Anyways without further ado, I wanted to start some C-Akiha discussion 'cause I can't do all the research by myself and there are some ideas I'd like to test, changes I'd like to address.

Akiha's Arc Drive: I've written about why it's practically useless on the wiki but I'll paste it here as well. It's sad considering how awesome of a tick throw game Akiha used to have on top of her high/low options and how sexy its animation is.

Crimson Lord・Origami　「赤主・檻髪」41236C (In MAX or HEAT)
Akiha's Arc Drive, she is completely invulnerable until the active frames end. Unlike her MBAC reincarnation and due to her receiving a command grab, her Arc Drive no longer grabs. You can combo into this by EX cancelling 623B. Outside of doing flashy combos, this special is rather useless.

Crimson Lord・Origami　「赤主・檻髪」41236C (In BLOOD HEAT)
Akiha's Another Arc Drive, this version does grab, giving you a very strong tick throw game when in BLOOD HEAT. However you may not want to use this option unless it's going to end the game because it will give your opponent 200% meter due to the universal system mechanic of exponentially increasing their meter after around 30 hits. You cannot combo into this if they are airborne.


Akiha's new command grab, Brilliant Crimson Submerge?!
Excuse my rough translation, but that's what came out and it looks like it fits. Plus I don't mind that now it sounds like some sort of attack from Sailor Moon, that's kind of cool imo 8]

This move is pretty good as it does some irrecoverable damage, especially since the damage caused by the EX Flame Pit is mostly recoverable damage.  Now we have a decent reversal option too and it's also another option to use off of normal shield, especially since 623B could be blocked.. Since you can combo into this and it even grabs airborne opponents, it offsets the damage we lost by going for a pit setup and not doing her Yukinose patented lovely leg loop instead of doing an air combo.

I think this could give Akiha a scary tick throw game if EX cancelled off of 623B but I wasn't too successful with it in training mode. It might be because the startup of 623B is too fast, the command grab's startup is a little longer than a normal throw, or I'm just not inputting it fast enough.


Akiha's tech trap game off of aerial ending in j.2C
I wouldn't say this is non-existent anymore and I've noticed that it's harder to combo into it off of a full air combo. However the tech punishing options seem to have changed. In MBAC, an immediate (or almost immediate) 6C used to cover neutral tech and forward tech (by becoming 4C), but lose to backwards tech. However it doesn't punish forward tech anymore but I think it does cover neutral and backwards tech though I'm not 100% sure about that.

This tech trap game and the added damage from the air combo was nice in MBAC but personally I don't think it's worth going for anymore since instead of 2C 623B we get 2C BE5B 4C 63214A now for a flame pit setup and compared to 2C BE5B aerial, the damage difference is much more negligible. But in case anyone was wondering what happened to it or wanted to run it still, that's what I know about it.

[CT_Warrior]

The only thing I'd disagree on is the blockstrings part. Reverse beats are very important for Akiha.

Where 5C 214B may get mashed out of, 5C delay 5B 214B would beat it.
5B5A / 2B5A is very important in pressure because it gives her so many options afterward.

[dakanya]

5C delay 5B 214B...? Yeah, it'll beat mashers but it's even unsafer to 214B off of 5B you know. Also 5B (5A) and 2B (5A) put Akiha at a minor disadvantage... but they have their uses.

I'm not saying reverse beat is bad but yeah it's not as useful for Akiha. Any C move on block whiff cancelled to an A is +1 frame and reverse beats can be used deceptively to bait your opponents into trying to escape. However Akiha is not as reliant as other characters on reverse beat in blockstrings.

[CT_Warrior]

It's true that it's less safe, but it works more reliably than after 5C because you have so many options after 5B that they expect 214B less. Of course, this is after they respect your pressure.

The minor frame disadvantage after 5B5A doesn't mean anything if you're close to your opponent because you have so many option-selects. It was my main blockstring that I had a lot of success with versus decent players.

Here's a breakdown of a blockstring with the 5B5A backbone. 2369A can be replaced with IAD jA/jB, each have their pros and cons.

2A:
1) 5B5A
2) 2A
3) 2369A
4) walk throw

2A delay 5B5A:
1) 2A, stuffs attacks and jumpouts
2) delay 2A, stuffs attacks and jumpouts. Wait for 5A to recover, if you time it right, they should only have one frame to mash out of this gap. Resets your moves.
3) 2369A stuffs most attacks and late jumpouts and resets knockback and gives a j2C mixup since you're so close
4) dash throw, great place for a tickthrow since you don't have to wait to get into range before you throw, and the initial frame disadvantage lets you input your throw earlier, still risky of course.

2A delay 5B5A delay 2A:
1) 2A, since the 5B5A moves you forward enough to throw out another.
2) 2369A
3) 5C5B / 5C214B mixup
4) dash throw

2A delay 5B5A delay 2A delay 2A:
1) 5C5A
2) dash 2A, which is much safer because early 2A mashing from your opponent will whiff, resets knockback and punishes late jumpouts.
3) 2369A
4) 214B since they are no longer within 2A range, and it's hard to react with so many other options that Akiha has.

2A delay 5B5A delay 2A delay 2A delay 5C5A:
1) delay 4C/2C, this will catch jumpouts easily, so once you scare them with it, your other options become much stronger.
2) try to keep them in corner with jump neutral and lean forward attacks or jump forward attacks. If they respect the above, they'll react to your jump by most probably jumping and holding block, by then you'll have a huge advantage to push them back into the corner, even with just jA mash.
3) sj2369A or j2369A into dash 2A, dash 5A5E option select or etc.
4) dash 5A2A, catches mid to late jumpouts out of respect for your other options, you should notice if you're going to hit as antiair before you cancel into 2A.
5) dash 5B, catches late jumpouts, less vulnerable to mashouts than 5A2A.

2A delay 5B5A delay 2A delay 2A delay 5C5A delay 4C
1) 236chargedB, catches people who like to jump backward in the corner or mini resets unsuspecting folk.
2) 236C into a ghetto reset.
3) 22C, try to keep them in corner, all the knockback gives the flamepit more area to cover. Remember you can detonate in the air. Makes games more hype.

You have five to six places to choose when resetting pressure with multiple ways of doing so in this single blockstring.
I still suggest learning a 5C5A based string and the 2B2A and 5Bdelay2A starters when you have knockdown to keep things more random.

[YubelPhoenix]

Her new command grab is pretty good and has goood animation. But no combo ablitiy. 623 B wont work

[Mistwraith]

Well if u know how to combo, her command grab is combo-able, who says it is not 
And what do you mean by 623B won't work ? In what scenario ?

[dakanya]

@CT_Warrior: If your opponent is going to try to jump out of 5B (5A) delay 2A, he's going to do so at the first possible frame 'cause he just has to hold up after blocking 5B and you'll only have like 1 or 2 frames where you can actually catch them. Otherwise at best you're going to hit them while they're airborne. Even staggered 2As are better at stopping jump outs just because it takes frames to stop holding 1 on top of the couple more frames of leeway you get by going straight from another 2A. For punishing jump outs 5B (5A) delay 2A seems mad weak but everything else looks legit and 214B is debatable but I won't push it since you are aware of the risks.

@YubelPhoenix: You can only combo into the A version and you can't combo off it. I don't think you can use 623B kara 63214C as a combo ender either.

[Ryd]

EX command throw is really good.  The invincibility lets you grab people's hitboxes in some pretty interesting situations (extreme example: grabbing off of Nanaya's 236 series from almost 2 character lengths away, and seeing him get sucked into your hand).  Also seems really good for ending matches, as the invincibility protects from pokes, and there doesn't appear to be time for the opponent to jump once the superflash goes off; making for some scary pressure to be up against at crunch time.  Now if only this or her BHAD would grab jumpers in her immediate airspace the way F-Moon's does...

[dakanya]

Yeah the EX command throw is indeed very strong. They cannot jump out on reaction to the superflash since the startup is 5+1 frames. Five frames before the superflash, one frame after it. I've grabbed Kohaku 5B with it before ^^; but it probably wouldn't have worked if she had hit 2C... that move doesn't extend her hitbox. Command grabs are nerfed in general in MBAA just because a lot of characters have attacks that don't extend their hitbox.

[CT_Warrior]

Dakanya, that's untrue.
I don't know why, but if you do 2A 5B5A 2A, you can cancel that last 5A to 2A. Try it!

[Benny1]

In melty, 5A and 2A can always combo between each other, no matter what, with exceptions being unmashable 5A's/2A's.

[CT_Warrior]

I decided that Akiha's gonna be my third best character under Hisui and Kohaku.

If anything, playing Hisui and Kohaku has convinced me that ending combos with tech punish opportunities is better than just having solid oki, and it's definitely more hype.

For her corner combo, I'd recommend this:
2AA 5C 4C 2B 2C 6C delay 2C 5BEB 4C jBC adC sdjBC j2C, 5151 damage on VSion

versus
2AA 6C 4C 2B 2C 5C 5C 2C 5BEB 4C 63214A j227C, 4343 damage
2AA 5C 4C 2B 2C 6C delay 2C 5BEB 4C 63214A j227C, 4565 damage

It does about 600 more damage and meter than the standard oki setup alone.

If they get hit by the no-tech punish, then it'll do 600 more damage and you have tons more frame advantage and options.
If they get hit by a forward/back tech punish, it'll do over 2x more damage.
If they guess right and don't get punished for forward, then you lose corner pressure but still have pressure. Even if they do guess right, the tradeoff isn't too bad.
If they guess right and don't get punished for anything else, you still have great pressure and an extra 600 damage and lots of extra meter versus a plain 22C pit.

An EX flamepit can probably only drain 500 damage and 30 meter max anyway if they decide to stay in it the whole time, so in regards to j2C oki, the only advantage is the ignition and guaranteed oki.
j2C setups net more potential and reliable damage and meter and puts more depth into Akiha's game.

Techpunish setups:
1) slight delay 5B
2) 2AA, or 2AAA
3) 2A2C

Backtech punish: slight delay 5B 5C 4C 2B 2C delay 6C 2C 5BEB 4C jBC adC sdjBC j2C, 5702 damage on VSion.
Forwardtech punish: slight delay 5B 5C 4C 2B 623C jC sdjBC adC backwards airthrow 5182 damage
No-tech punish: 2AC jump dj22C, or 2AAA4C 63214A j227C (this option allows higher damage hitconfirm on neutral tech and better pressure on other techs)
Neutral tech punish: 2AC into whatever, or 2AA(A) into BNB.

[dakanya]

Dakanya, that's untrue.
I don't know why, but if you do 2A 5B5A 2A, you can cancel that last 5A to 2A. Try it!

I didn't say that 5B (5A) 2A was weak but 5B (5A) delay 2A was weak. You misread my response there!

EDIT: I guess I can reply to your latest post before I sleep or at least post something in response

Sticking to the solid ender is better because 1) you don't have to guess or risk as much, 2) you do irrecoverable damage, 3) fuck with their meter, getting them under 100 meter alone is huge, 4) even if your mixups get blocked you are still at an advantage and 5) maintain a much better position!

The problem with the j2C setup is that the situation you get and the risk/reward is not as weighted towards your favor. Although the payoff can be huge, you could end up with an airthrow knockdown, which sucks, and them outside the corner, which also sucks.

Of course when they tech, things can go wrong and they can do a reversal upon recovery. You are relying much more on Akiha's neutral game which is extremely inferior to her corner game. Once you get them in the corner, you shouldn't let them out.

[CT_Warrior]

5B (5A) delay 2A isn't weak. It's a 2 frame gap. I'd think that purposely delaying attacks a bit longer so you can mix-in resets and mixups easier is a good idea. Even resetting takes at least 10 frames, a 2 frame gap is nothing.

I've always been about damage maximization and guess work.
It's definitely weighted in your favor, maybe not enough for you, but enough for me at least.

Free 700 damage and 5k damage (guess right) / weaker pressure (guess wrong).

[dakanya]

yeah everyone has their own individual style but there are other characters that are better at doing that though. irrecoverable damage + life drain and two chances to guess (for another 4k+ damage each) for even more irrecoverable damage and life drain is pretty hot though.

on another note i played some casuals yesterday and tested a bunch of stuff to see whether or not it was gimmicky

236c feels like it doesnt have any invulnerability on it anymore or its been nerfed. but framedisplay says its invul until like frame 5 or frame 7? but the flames come out slower now so you can get hit before the flames even come out which will render your reversal useless. terrible reversal now but as a gimmick you can still try to use it as a random  ground vs ground poke to force situations into your favor

shield into hcb cmd throw is pretty hard due to the reduced hitstop, i wasnt too consistent about it, maybe got it like half the time

aerial ch into 2c be5b 4c hcbA is a doable option if you like real knockdowns

ribbon startups feel slower than they were in mbac but im not sure about that and dont know the framedata. although i wrote on the wiki that full screen momiji knockdowns could lead into meaties and 50/50 i'll have to play around with ribbon timing.

also the neutral game in the ryougi matchup is fucking ass as akiha doesn't have any good crossup aerial normals to complement super double jump so its impossible to capitalize getting in that way, maybe i should improve my movement and incorporate aerial dodge before im going to cross them up at least but i actually main v.akiha which has a much easier time in this matchup and with akiha's bad matchups in general

also advanced corner combos are stupidly hard on setups that have like 2f of lag, just go for basic combo... ryougi seems to have a weird aerial hitbox, it might be that both wallslams need a lot of delay.

anyways im sick as hell now so going back to sleep or something zzz late

also to address 5B (5A) delay 2A. i was only saying that 5B (5A) delay 2A is weak at catching jump outs. plz read

[CT_Warrior]

5B5A 2A is good at catching jumpouts if they're trying to react instead of guessing by holding up, but I see what you mean.
It's counterintuitive to hold "jump" that early in a blockstring and risk  eating a full BNB.

[dakanya]

you'd only think its counterintuitive until you've met kijea, that guy would hold up every chance he would get in mbac -_-

[CT_Warrior]

Messing more with Akiha, she has amazing pressure. Best anti-jumpout pressure I've seen.

dash2A delay 5B delay 5A2A recover 5B delay 2A recover 5B5A recover 5B2A xx

There's absolutely zero points in this string that you can jump out of without getting smacked by 5B. Tested in practice mode.
And only one point in which you can get mashed out, which is the first "recover" and a 7 frame gap.

The idea is to let 5B pull you forward, and you use reverse beast at the last possible moment to create a frametrap.
Sure, other strings are solid without the 7 frame gap, but this blockstring allows you to mix-in 63214B and other resets a lot easier.

With two different types of blockstrings that are interchangeable and can completely beat out a common form of escape, I'd say that Akiha pressure is pretty beast.
Maybe I'll net more forward tech-punishes because of it, heh.

[dakanya]

those delays must be like for 2 frames at the most lol

'reverse beating at the last possible moment' also means you get less +f so you should be at -f. which is a pretty big gap unless you meant something else ;o

[CT_Warrior]

"At the last possible moment" such that they are unable to jumpout or win with 2A.

[Lord Knight]

If you really wanted to stop jump outs you'd put a 5C where you think they would jump/mash.

[dakanya]

Two hot new combos added to the wiki to boost your damage and okizeme.
Again, paranthesises indicate that it's whiffed during the combo.

http://mbaa.mizuumi.net/index.php/Akiha_Tohno#Combos_and_Strategies

[CT_Warrior]

Cool combos, I'll test their j2C ender variants in a bit and see whether I should go for them or not.

Well, you could tag on a 5C at the end of that blockstring I mentioned. The point is that there's so many frame traps in a single blockstring before your opponent can jump out, and tons of opportunities to reset or throw in a mixup because it looks so trippy yet solid. Hitconfirming may be ridiculously hard, but I think it'll be great in low health situations.

EDIT: You're missing a 2C in the combo after 2B, won't work with 2AA since you won't be able to whiffcancel into it.

EDIT2: I found a techpunish that punishes forward/back (into combo), no-tech (into commandthrow), and neutral tech into good pressure. Worth it now?

[dakanya]

Oops yeah, typo.

Otherwise the 2B will whiff or you won't have enough time to do 2C (2A) 2A 2C.

I wrote it here but not in the actual combo.

I don't think it's worth it unless you can punish neutral tech and forwards or backwards in the same tech punish, it's too risky. And in MBAC, Akiha had a punish for all 3 directions but it was a 1f timing. It's just that the risks are too great and it's something I wouldn't bother going anymore with all the buffs she got. It's up to you though.

[CT_Warrior]

If I didn't find this new tech punish, I might have agreed that it's not worth it.
But forward/back/no-tech punish, and neutral tech you still have corner pressure, that's already win-win.

And this setup is probably invulnerable to some neutraltech reversal, because the attack comes fairly late and you can react to EX flash and fast DPs.