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Author Topic: F-Akiha discussion  (Read 6447 times)

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Offline AnFox

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F-Akiha discussion
« on: December 22, 2010, 10:36:41 AM »
Until I can think of a better topic title that's clever, it'll have to do for now.  :gonk:

This will primarly be where all of the strats for this character will be stored such as but not limited to:

- Meter management
- Pressure
- "Zoning"
- Deathtrap

Hopefully this thread wont be just Ryd and myself.  :toot:
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Offline Ryd

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 12:46:02 PM »
Hopefully this thread wont be just Ryd and myself.  :toot:

Doubtful, but who knows.  I'll start with her special-heavy corner pressure game.

F-Akiha corner pressure gets scary if your opponent starts to respect you.  If you can convince someone to sit on a pit, you can start mixing in other specials in blockstrings and using pits to cover the holes (except against EX Hiero type bullshit, obviously), and other moves (primarily 421) to cover resetting the pit.  The 421 and charged 22 series tear through guard meter very quickly, so people can't be complacent about sitting in her pressure without risking getting guard broken into 5-10k+ damage (depending on the situation when the guard break happens.)  For example:

Guard break w/normal, no pit; chain the normal into 421A on the guard break, dash in and:

5B 5C 6C 214B 5B 5C 2369BEB 5A 3C jC jC sj jC j2C

Will get you something like 6k+ damage.


Guard break w/421; set & hold 22A before 421 hits, assuming A is held:

5B 5C 6C 214B 6[C]]A[ 421A ]C[ jB jC sdj jC j2C

Around 5k+ damage; pit release has to be timed to catch before they tech after the wallslam, but not too soon that the knot doesn't hit.


Guard break w/normal and opponent sitting on semi-fresh pit; cancel normal into 421A on the break and go into the above combo.  Total damage will be around 7k+; 8k+ if you go into max and have the time to do the IH combo extension.  Add in unblockable bullshit at the end, and it does something like 13-14k raw damage; enough to kill everyone (before mashing) except Archetype Earth at full health.

There are holes in special-heavy pressure, but you control where they are with pit releases.  The air unblockable attacks (421, lv 2+ 22) make jump outs risky, as they can get caught and lead into 3-4k damage with corner knockdown+oki.  Half bunkers while you're in close and EX Hiero-type moves are the easiest way to get out, but that's true for any character with this kind of pressure.

An example would be:

2A 5B 5C 22[A] (opponent respects pillar) dash 2B(1) 5[C]]A[ 421A ]C[ 22[A] 5B 5[C]]A[ 421[A]]C[ (opponent respects pillar+web) 2369BEB dash 5B 5[C]]A[ 421A ]C[ 22[A]

Pit releases are timed so that they go off after throwing out knots, but before the knot hits.  The above will guard break C-moon characters without EX guarding at the last 421A, with a pit set for comboing.  

214 moves can also be thrown out and followed up with 421 as long as you have a pit under your opponent to cover the gap between them.  The only thing you have to watch out for on your end while running this kind of thing is maintaining pits.  If you screw up with keeping one out, at best you can fall back on normal string > 22A pressure; at worst the situation goes back to neutral.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 05:16:41 PM by Ryd »
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Offline Ryd

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 01:03:12 PM »
Fuzzy Guard

As we all know, the fuzzy setup is a deep jB while the opponent is sitting on a pit.  For the fuzzy, follow up with dj jC, release the pit as you're landing and then:

jump jB jC dj jC j2C

Easy, but the damage is not spectacular; 3k range.


land [2A 2C]xN 6C 2369BEB jB jC dj jC j2C

Damage is around the 5k range (2 reps).  The 2A 2C loop is tricky; not sure how many reps are possible, but I've managed up to 3.  I don't think too many more would be possible.  2 is difficult, but doable.  1 is the easiest and still provides solid damage (just under 5k).  This is character specific though; so far I've confirmed that it does not work on V.Akiha.


land 2A 5C 6C 2369BEB jB jC dj jC j2C

Damage is a bit higher than above, but you forfeit the OTG string (and possible tech punish) the above gives you.  This one should be universal.


Low mixup (pit is held):

deep jB land (2A) 5B 5C 6C 214B 6[C]]A[ 421A ]C[ jB jC sdj jC j2C

Around 5k+ if you start with 5B, less (and more button-shuffling for maintaining the pit) with 2A.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 05:19:23 PM by Ryd »
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 03:19:26 PM »
Quote
The above will guard break C/F-moon characters without EX guarding at the last 421A, with a pit set for comboing.  
just going to throw this out there: F-moon actually has the most guard bar followed by H-moon then significantly further behind is C-moon (F>H>>C). So technically, H-moon should be getting raped by this as well considering the option to bunker is not available at the time.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 06:12:32 PM by Othello Sheen »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Ryd

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 05:16:19 PM »
Hmm, did not know that about Full.  I never saw documentation stating they had more guard meter (and almost never play against F characters), and with being able to EX guard, I figured they had C's amount; I'll have to fix that entry then, thanks.  And yeah, H does get raped by the same kind of pressure when the bunker isn't available (string will have to be extended, but that's easy as it ends on a 22[A]), but as they can't EX guard, you also have the option to insert something like 214Bxx236C to make escape even more difficult if you can afford the meter.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 05:28:06 PM by Ryd »
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Offline Psylocke

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 06:27:52 PM »
Meter management..

Against most characters, generally I think it's best to conserve meter usage so that MAX can be reached as quickly as possible for the threat of Deathtrap.  However, against certain characters, I think using a super that isn't talked about much here becomes viable, which is...
214C!
This move has fullscreen range, is really fast, frame+ on block and hit, and sets itself apart from the rest of F-Akiha's projectiles in that it doesn't disappear if she gets hit.  It also does pretty good damage too, though comboing off of it is very difficult.  Since it's an EX, the recovery of many of F-Akiha's projectiles can be cancelled into it.  Example of possible use:
-opponent is a little more than halfscreen away on the ground.  F-Akiha can 412b xx 214c.  If opponent responds by jumping forward, they have to deal with the air unblockable knot, and if they stay on the ground, F-Akiha will be at advantage since 214c is frame+.  If they do anything else, F-Akiha should have enough time to safely get out a 22 somewhere so that she can continue to play neutral with an advantage.

And some examples of characters I've found it to be pretty good against:
1)characters who have easy ways out of deathtrap(White Len, etc) - since deathtrap is ineffective, might as well use meter for 214c to control the screen more
2)characters who outzone F-Akiha aka anyone with a projectile(Ciel, Aoko, etc)
3)characters who are really dangerous with meter(F-Ries) - F-Akiha actually does a pretty good job zoning out Ries, but she can just sit back and charge for meter...  which is bad.  214c can be a good way to quickly seal off the ground so that she won't be able to charge much.

Another thing slightly related to meter management is the choice of aircombo ender in the corner.  Most of F-Akiha's simple combos(around 10 hits or less) near or at the corner can be followed up with an OTG string after the j.2c knockdown.  However the OTG string can only be made completely safe if it ends in 22[a] 236c.  If you feel you need to conserve meter, one nice way to get a 22[a] setup after knockdown in corner without using circuit is: to do the doublejump straight up in F-Akiha's aircombo.

F-Akiha's general bnb has an sdj in it to maximize damage and get the spacing right for j.2c.  However, if she does an aircombo with sdj in the corner and set ups a 22[a] afterwards, it will be off screen and won't be of much threat until it reaches lvl2.  So, in the corner she can end her aircombos with 8dj.a j.2c.  This will make it so that Akiha is pushed out of the corner, and will let her set up a 22[a] which will be onscreen.

Against some characters, like Wara and Ries, it's trivial to adjust the combo.  She can just do something like:
j.bc 8dj.a j.2c
Against other characters with weird air hitboxes, like the Lens, she has to do something else
j.b 8dj.a j.2c
j.ac 8dj.a j.2c

Generally I like going for these enders if I'm doing a corner 214b combo, since the hitcount of those is too high to get a good OTG string afterwards.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 10:56:32 AM by Psylocke »
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Offline Ryd

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2010, 06:05:44 PM »
8dj.a j.2c.  This will make it so that Akiha is pushed out of the corner, and will let her set up a 22[a] which will be onscreen.

I am really liking this.  Kind of miss the bigger damage from 421a throw shenanigans, but being able to go straight into crazy pressure is fun.
:prinny:

Offline AnFox

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 09:42:10 AM »
I had a whole thing on what kind of blockstrings I run, but I'll save that for when I can get accurate info/video sources.

Anyway here's the most recent vid of myself playing from NEC and why I suck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7yyee_HSYo



1:51-2:00 – I pretty much wanted to see how pfhor was going to try and approach so there’s no real need to take too much of a risk and run right at him at the start

2:04: I hit pfhor with lvl 3 pit and had time to confirm something but I didn’t. Nerves I guess

2:05 – 2:20: More general spacing since I don’t want Kohaku to get in and start her bullshit. Too bad I fuck up my spacing with 22a and dash into a jC.

2:27 - Random Ryd shoutout from Dippy lol

2:30 – Should have sdj’ed as soon as I saw that cactus didn’t but me in blockstun, but I was worried about Kohaku jB so I held back and just landed back into the corner. Pffff

2:46 – Should have ended with jaa j2c instead because then I wouldn’t have landed on the other side. I really wasn’t expecting that and messed up my oki.

2:52 – Land with jb and didn’t dj jaa to keep pressure and instead kohaku is above me and I lose the round.

3:16 – Land random CH into IH relaunch confirm into DEATHTRAP. At this point in the match I decided that using up all of my meter to bring Kohaku down from full health to 25% in just about 5 seconds was the way to go.

3:40 – Pfhor gets hit with 214B right after he activates so I decided to pressure because I didn’t want him to regen anymore life.

3:46 – I fuck up the AD punish. :V

3:52 – Reacted too slow to the jc and shielded.

4:01 – Instead of doing 22a, the better option would have been to just get further on the other side of the screen to space properly again.

4:10 – Saw the throw whiff but didn’t want to risk hitting 2a too slow and eating another combo.

4:21 – Should have tried to get in a position of where I could space a 2c as AA. Fighting Kohaku air-to-air is ALWAYS disadvantage to F-akiha.

5:27 – Early jb to try and beat out jb from pfhor. Got lucky with the CH. ALSO should have done a better CH corner confirm. If I’m not mistaken I could have done: 2c 6c 2369{b} jaa jc dj8 ja j2c.

5:30 – Shouldn’t have used the 5b 421a otg string. I didn’t give pfhor a reason to NOT tech yet. In that situation you would buffer 22 right after 5b and see if they would tech or not.

5:34 – Don’t know what happened here. Either I wanted to shield or I messed up inputting backdash.

5:38 – Should have teched back and tried to get to a better position full screen.

5:46 – Instead of 214a, 22a would have been great because pfhor would have had to jump back to avoid the pit, otherwise I would have gotten a CH into some sort of confirm.

6:02 – Managed to get out of the corner. Once again, should have retreated to at least half screen

6:12 – After seeing the pit pfhor jumps back and respects it. The best response to that would have been another pit to keep him from jumping around.

6:24 – Good thing I waited for Kohaku to land otherwise I would have eaten a jc. F-aki’s 2c is amazing but only recommended to use at tip range. Otherwise other jumpins will score a free combo.

6:28 – Decided against using DEATHTRAP mainly because I saw that pfhor had max and would have activated to reduce the damage from 4k to 1.5k. So I use the midscreen knockdown to go for a tk flametounge mixup.

6:35 – Should have done 22a instead of 421a. I would have been able to do 214c right after making the most of my max meter AND having a lvl 2 pit right under kohaku.

6:40 – Right confirm, wrong ender. Use dj8 ja j2c.

6:42 – Baited the throw with a jump, but if it was just j9 instead of iad I would have been able to confirm the web hit.

6:45 – Didn’t want to get tagged with Kohaku 2c afterwards so I just peaced outta there.

7:18 – Didn’t wanna risk fucking up airthrow so I just jumped out. But airthrow IS what you do to when you see molotov missed input.

7:25 – 7:31 – Should have done 22a xx 236c otg. Had no real reason not to. No 214c in Any of those blockstrings. Again, had max meter to do so.

7:49 – Again with not sdj’ing after missed cactus.

8:02 – Even though there was the possibility that I COULD have hit max, I realy should have just done the 236c otg. It was too close to the end of the round to try and conserve meter.

8:14 – Don’t know why I let pfhor out of the corner when I hit max. pfffffff

8:17 – Fuck up the tech punish. You do dash 5a 5c. It covers pretty much every tech near the corner.

8:20 – Get hit, do wakeup shield, lose match. GGs.
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 12:19:39 PM »
Quote
3:40 – Pfhor gets hit with 214B right after he activates so I decided to pressure because I didn’t want him to regen anymore life.
Another option would have been to sit full screen on the (huge) lead and charge meter then go on defensive w/ pits and webs. Regen doesn't mean much to me if their red life can't bring them close to even on my current hp (personal preference thing really).

Quote
3:52 – Reacted too slow to the jc and shielded.
Actually, the JC wasn't in range lol.

Quote
8:14 – Don’t know why I let pfhor out of the corner when I hit max. pfffffff
yeah, 214B>IH would have extended your pressure a bit longer and burned more time on the clock. Even if pfhor activated to regen, you would have still held the life lead and he would have been forced to rush during the time stop (at the point where you'd probably start to lame it up and turtle behind pits)

I think against pfhor in particular, you may have been able to get away w/ a few dash 5A>3C's or dash 3C's here and there. His approach mainly seemed to be from the air by use of high air dashes or dashing jumps followed by early jC(B). And iirc 623A has upper body invin and can be used for over-aggressive air approaches. Use of these may have forced him to try and pace the match a bit slower.

I enjoyed this. Someone recommended that youtube annotations are a good idea for this and I agree. Apparently it has a pausing feature that lets you freeze-frame while the vid annotations are up. You get to explain the vid w/o having  to reference back and forth to the notes. Was thinking about doing this for the vid I posted on ciel forum but I think I'll try and get something with a bit more decent good quality before trying this lol.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 12:24:29 PM by This Forum Is Utter Garbage »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Ryd

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 09:27:24 PM »
Too much 214B in corner pressure, not enough 22A/B imo.  214B is pretty straightforward and leads to free escapes at some ranges unless you burn meter; varied pit releases and being forced to sit on them fucks with peoples' heads and forces them to play guessing games that can net you free damage + reset.  Pfhor was respecting a lot of your corner pressure, and it didn't look like you were really capitalizing on that respect.  Turn up the heat a little more, and people become a lot less willing to just sit there until they get a green light to get out.  In this case, no EX Hiero or invincible DP to worry about, so even less reason not to throw on more pressure.

Quote
iirc 623A has upper body invin and can be used for over-aggressive air approaches.

Upper body invincibility and the first hit is air unblockable.  In my experience, it surprises the hell out of people because almost nobody uses it (overheard@Evo: "why's he using that?" "who cares, it's working."), but that's understandable since you don't get much off the knockdown.  It makes people edgy about being in your airspace though, and is Akiha's most reliable anti air in certain situations.
:prinny:

Offline AnFox

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 11:09:59 PM »
More footage of me playing like shit.  :toot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbQiJYHHih4

1:42 - Figured I'd do dash up grab to start working staggers so that way if Roku pressed throw he'd be fucked later.

1:45 - Let go of the pit early to keep him from jumping out/hitting buttons.

2:06 - Was expecting a 2a on wakeup but got 236b'ed.

2:11 - Saw that I got the GC and tried to setup pit for 6k combo. Too bad I wasn't as close to the corner I wanted to be and that I didn't set the pit right as 5c hit.

2:13 - Got mad at myself for dropping free combo and rage activated too early get Roku away.

2:21 - Got dissed on doing 5a with random nanaya j.a hitbox.

2:49 - 2:53 - I see that I got the SC and midscreen KD so I tried for tk flametounge cross up and then realized I put myself in the corner and needed to get out. So thats where the throw comes in again, with another tk flametounge attempt to put Roku back in the corner.

2:58 - Was getting nervous and started to auto pilot shitty blockstring.

3:38 - More shitty blockstrings

3:40 - Really should have done 241b xx 214c while I still had the pit out. Roku wouldnt have been able to do much but stay on the ground and approach differently.

3:45 - Dash 5a 5b/5c tech punishes everything near corner. Too bad I did that wrong too

3:57 - Got another midscreen KD and saw his meter and also remembered he srk'ed on the previous wakeup, so tk flametounge covered both options there. Avoiding the heat for free combo and if another SRK were to happen, it would get messed up due to the tk approach.

4:14 - Guessed right with the shield on the jc but he was a bit too far.

4:29 - Eat a bunch of throws and an overhead. GG



Next vid yay! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8VnYUky_C4

6:14 - Sdj'ing over C-ceil's knives allows you to sail in and get a free combo.

6:20 - Dont use that OTG setup. I'm a retard.

6:22 - Tk flametounge to the rescue! Good thing most of the 2a's in this game are pretty low to the ground. HOWEVER if ANY character does 5a on wakeup to your flametounges = free combo for them.

6:27 - By landing in front this time you can actually punish backdashes with a well timed 2c. But I was once again, nervous.

6:33 - AMERICA!

6:40 - 7:36 - Yeah.

7:50 - 7:54 - This was actually a big risk. I could have been thrown after dashing forward and been placed in the corner, but had the thought about 236C coming out so I just hoped he hit a button. Now the punish on that is hard, because you just blocked 236c but if you take too long Ceil recovers. So I had to settle for what I went for.

7:59 - Just repeat 6:22.

8:02 - FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FF

8:25 - Really should have shielded that 5{c}.

8:31 - Not sure what happened. I think I was trying to redash 2a.

8:51 - Just repeat 8:31

9:10 - Cant say why I didnt just complete the OTG setup.

9:20 - 10:12 - Yep.

10:12 - Dont sit there and eat that like me. Just dash her ciel and kill her.


Hope to have more vids of myself playing or better yet people who aren't trash like me!
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 01:22:44 AM »
2:06 - Was expecting a 2a on wakeup but got 236b'ed.
2:21 - Got dissed on doing 5a with random nanaya j.a hitbox.

The 236B was actually a SRK attempt, but I was nervous the entire match too you know  :nyoro:

Also, the JA is actually legit, annoyingly. I had room to breathe, and since JA has virtually no landing recovery, had room to hit it while landing.
It actually doesn't crossup, it just hits the startup of your move. I'll admit this is annoying as hell, but there's alot of instances of aerial normals 'crossing up' when someone tries to anti-air them as such in this game
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Offline AnFox

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 10:27:29 PM »
New(?) corner combo shit:

2aa5b5c6c 214b 2a2c 6c 6c 2369{b} jb jc sdj jc j2c

As you would guess there's a good delay after the 214b to 2a. The timing has to be where you can hit 2c right after 2a and delay that into 6c for the wallslam into another 6c. I'll try to see if I can get something recorded at some point.

Doesnt work on: wara, nero, akihas, sions, hisui, mech hisui, ries,

Omit 5c after 5b if it looks like you are too far out.
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Offline Siberianhusky89

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2011, 12:25:42 PM »
Just throwing this out there but, is this chick legitimate? I know she's not in the arcade edition, but she's if she was, she'd seem too strong.

That ring is just very, very powerful. It gives her the following.

Mixup Options
Huge Pressure
Breaks Guard
Ridiculous Reaction Time
Great Oki in general

Just that alone, is very strong. Also, her combos are pretty strong, she has good range, and she has a 4 hit overhead. The ring lasts for a while and comes out almost instantly. Hitting her before she uses it is good and all, but it has such a short startup time. It's a huge move too and gives her time to do so much. Also, if she gets someone in the corner, which isn't hard to do, you're basically screwed.

Offline Shiki

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Re: F-Akiha discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2011, 03:38:53 PM »
Get the characters right.

Your talking about F-Seifuku Akiha.