Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Current Code => Akiha Vermillion => : Funky-kun December 31, 2011, 07:30:50 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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And a thread for F moon of our favorite fiery tsundere.
Significant changes:
1) Momiji loop damage was murdered.
2) Removal of anti-A armor makes her j.A and 5A even more godlike than before.
3) 623C and 214C OTG relaunch.
Some numbers:
B Momiji damage 1800 -> 1400, proration 70% -> 42% :emo:
Pits damage 1000 -> 1300 ;D
Her neutral game is now better because j.A poking is stronger than before and 5A can be better used as an antiair. Her OTG relaunches don't really help her much IMO.
Midscreen combos:
2AA5B5C4C(2) j.ABC dj.BC AT (basic BnB)
2AA5B5C4C(1) tk j.22B airdash j.C land j.BC dj.C AT (advanced damage combo)
2AA5B5C4C(2) 236C 5C3C j.BC dj.C AT (100 meter damage combo)
2AA5B5C4C(2) j.AC dj.C j.236B j.A (whiff) j.BE214B (corner carry)
2AA5B5C4C(2) j.ABC dj.C 236C j.A (whiff) j.BE214A (100 meter corner carry)
Near corner:
2AA5B5C623A j.22A j.C land j.BC dj.BC AT (damage combo in corner)
2AA5B5C623A(1) IAD j.C land j.BC dj.BC AT (damage + corner carry)
Momiji loops:
Starters:
2AA5B2C delay 3C623B
2A5AAA5B5C4C(1)623B (number of hits required for 623B to connect is character specific)
2AA5B5C236C 2C3C (does not work on crouchers; use 4C if too far for 2C to connect)
Enders:
2C623A j.8 delay j.22A j.236A (crossup setup)
2C3C623B 2C delay 4C(1) j.22A j.236A (crossup setup)
2C3C623B 2C3C623B (hard knockdown)
Hard knockdown okizeme:
tk7 j.22B j.214B on landing - safe way to start ground pressure
sj forward j.22A j.236A - safe way to start air pressure, can go into (j.22B j.22C)x N loop for some meter gain
Misc. Combos:
air counterhit land 5C4C(2) j.BC j.BC AT
shield counter 2C3C j.BC dj.BC AT
raw airthrow j.22A land j.BC dj.BC AT (damage)
raw airthrow immediate j.236a/b (knockdown)
6C 623B 2C3C623B (knockdown in corner)
6C dash 2C delay 4C(2)623B -> Momiji loop (fullscreen knockdown)
6C dash 5C4C(2) j.BC dj.BC AT (damage, when in corner omit the dash and link directly into 5c)
623C airdash j.A (whiff) land ...2C3C j.BC dj.BC AT (damage)
(hitconfirms for reversal 623c)...2C623B 2C3C623B (knockdown)
Pressure:
Frame data:
2A +3
5A +4
5B -1
2B -3
5C -5
5[C] +/-0
2C -4
6C -4
3C -4
4C -16
623A -7
22B +3
Corner blockstrings:
// * denotes stagger
Can reset with dash in 2A/5A, IAD or throw.
On 5B counter link into a second 5B for massive damage.
If opponent uses low shield (or 1A+D OS) use 5B to beat it - although it hits low, it must be shielded high as all 5B's.
2A*5A (x N) reset
2A throw (risky)
2AAA6C (use 2A's to move out of their 2A range, risky)
2AA(A)5C6C (overhead setup, needs dash momentum)
2A~2C (OS against backdash)
2A[7] continue blockstring (OS against H/F shield counter, can punish with 2A/5A if you're fast; any normal can be used)
5A3C214A 4C214B (catches jumpouts, confirm after 3C into aircombo, or continue on block)
5A3C214A reset (risky)
5A3C*623A (catches mashing)
2A tk j.236A -> mixups (directly dash into tk j.236A after groundthrow)
2A*A*5B reset
2A*A*5B*5B*2C*4C(1)623A (if opponents are eager to escape)
2AAA5A (whiff) cancel into 5B*5B (if opponent is looking for whiffs)
2A*A*5B*5C
2A*5B*5C214[A] (pressure reset)
2A*A*5B*5C*4C*623A
2A*A*5B*5C*4C*22B (you have +frames, but are too far away to safely continue blockstrings)
IAD mixups:
IAD j.B/C > 2A (low)
IAD j.B/C > IAD j.C (high, can be 5A'd)
IAD j.AB (double overhead) (does not work on Miyako, WLen)
IAD j.AA (double overhead) (works on Len, WLen, but not Miyako)
IAD j.B/C > IAD j.AB/j.AA (double overhead, airtight, not mashable)
IAD j.B/C j.214A (reset, not mashable)
IAD j.C tk (j.22A j.22B) x N
IAD j.B/C > land throw (risky)
IAD j.B/C > land 6C (risky)
j.236A mixups:
On the way down, in corner:
j.A/B > 2A (low)
j.A/B > IAD j.C (high)
j.C (whiff) > 2A (low)
j.A > j.236A (reset; puffball whiffs, if they block, but will hit them if they try to do anything)
tk.9 j.236A (reset)
j.B > j.214A (reset)
j.A/B > IAD j.AA/AB (double overhead)
j.A/B > land throw (risky)
j.A/B > land 6C (risky)
Fuzzy guard:
deep j.B > j.C j.22A j.A land 2A... (works only on Nero and Wara :laffo:)
Random info:
Tigerknee j.236A is her pressure reset tool, lets yo go crazy on their head. (has been nerfed since PS2 but it's still good, especially in corner)
Burning meter in the corner doesn't really help with damage. Burning meter before 623B in corner still helps with damage.
I believe a midscreen 623Aa xx pit combo is possible, but I don't have any good results yet. 623A xx pit combos in the Tobari tutorial.
Holding [4] or [6] after j.236C changes the way VAkiha jumps from the puffball. This is great for setting up spacing for charge pillars or going into mixup.
Holding [4] or [6] when the pits hit grounded opponents makes them go towards you / away from you.
If you hit a half moon character in heat with a ground pit in blockstun (e.g. 4C 22B) it still forces a circuit spark. :psyduck:
Videos:
Video tutorial by Tobari. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16791333)
Combo examples by me. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2deYr6ZzUA)
Mixup examples by me. (http://youtu.be/KiAGX1F52qY)
EDIT: Video examples.
EDIT 2: Added damage and proration changes.
EDIT 3: Some more changes.
EDIT 4: Fixed syntax, added frame data, blockstrings and mixups, some other minor changes.
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What should I be doing for mix-up after ending a mid screen combo with jBE236b/a?
Also, could you explain the "(j22b j22c)x n loop"? I'm not sure what it is XD
Thanks.
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Basically the point of ending the combo with charge pillars is to push your opponent into the corner, where her offense is the strongest. I guess you can go for crossup mixups after j236a/b with her airdashes.
What I mean by the loop is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxO1fKwUI-g
I just tested and the opponent isn't left in blockstun for the whole time, so he can get hit, which would require you to do j22a in order to hiconfirm, but people are scared of this and will usually just block.
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I just noticed that the air movement of j236a/b is changed, you don't jump as high as before. This means if you tigerknee it really close to the ground, jC will whiff. So if going for tk j236a pressure midscreen, you have to cancel it later in order to hit the crossup jC. It also seems it's not as safe as before, because the jC is not coming from above with the same speed.
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All of you learn this combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeGuf6UyA00#t=5m20s
or you're not a REAL F-VAKIHA
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God, Tobari's hitconfirms are out of this world.
That combo is pretty hard to set up, you need them at a certain distance from the pit. In PS2 there was an infinite off this starter, but I'm not sure if it's removed from 1.07 or not.
I'm curious why he's doing pits at the end of his blockstrings, you can't confirm off them even if they CH. On the other hand, staggered 623a can be easily converted into damage.
I also noticed something very interesting while watching the set. After some testing it turns out that if you hold 4 or 6 after executing j.236c you influence the direction VAkiha hops. This makes it easier to set up spacing for oki pillars. I don't know how I missed this!
Also, some more misc. combos:
6c xx 5c4c(2) j.bc j.(b)c AT (when you need damage off overhead in corner)
raw airthrow immediate j.236a/b (for hard knockdown from airthrow)
623c airdash cancel late j.22a land j.bc j.bc AT (hitconfirm for reversal 623c)
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Just randomly stumbled upon this:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16791333
Very extensive F-VAkiha video tutorial, including all relevant combos (623a pit fullscreen combos!!!), OTGs and some crazy showoff combos at the end. All you really need to know for her is in this video. Even better if you read moonrunes.
Can someone translate the notes on the tigerknee pit combos (228 pit and 623a 229 pit)? Also, is the creator of the video Tobari?
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the notes just say that there's a limit to the screen space you're allowed to do it in, which should be self evident just looking at it / practicing it yourself (unless you're referring to another segment)
the vid is by tobari, yes
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Really good video, holy crap. I got some training mode to do :fap:
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Just a comment, if you use only one hit of 623A, not two, you actually do more damage with your corner combos.
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I thought I was beast with my combo that did 3 but he actually combo's into charged pillar? wholly fuck. Shit did 6k+ and it seems all you have to do to get the combo is hit a charged pillar which he kinda shows how to do in his matches as he sometimes does a crossup pillar after an EX puffball.
Fuck might go more back to F-VAkiha as I've been tinkering too much with aoko.
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I was in the lab today and have info on frame data, blockstrings and mixups, all in the updated first post.
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Nice thread you have going here.
Just picked up F-Vakiha and I had some questions.
I was wondering if anyone could tell me the mechanics behind her pits.
Exactly what combinations auto ignite them and what not?
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They auto-ignite if the opponent is in range and in hit/block stun.
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Technology incoming!
First off, random pit facts. The the direction you hold when the pits explode (and hit the opponent) determines whether they pull them towards you or push them away. Useful for the aerial pit loops. Doesn't seem to affect pushback on block.
Second, mixups! Hato has a nice little setup that has the potential to lead into enormous amounts of damage. Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgE21WrQW7Y#t=1h18m40s
Sadly, he goes for fancy IH combo and drops it FTL. However, there are easier ways to combo it which I will explore later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgE21WrQW7Y#t=1h19m50s
Here he goes for the fake crossup. This option is limited because you can't get in the corner anymore and the pits aren't used.
So I went in the lab with the above information and this is what I came up with:
http://youtu.be/KiAGX1F52qY (aka WUB WUB DAMAGE TECHNOLOGY)
Info about the mixups and confirms shown in the video:
Setup 1:
2AAA5B2C delay 4C(2)623B 2C623A j.8 j.22A j.236A drift out
This is the setup I go for most often when the opponent is in the corner. The following mixup is very hard to react to and gives solid damage. Your options are the following:
j.C (whiff) 5B5C623A j.9 j.22A j.C land j.BC dj.BC ATFake overhead into damage combo. You can go into Momiji loop or second mixup instead.
airbackdash j.C / j.C (whiff) 5B5C4C(2) j.BC dj.BC ATCrossup overhead or crossup low. Strong option, as crossup destroys DP inputs.
In both hitconfirms you want to omit any A's as they lower the damage. 236C can be used to increase it even further. There needs to be a slight delay between j.BC and dj.BC in the out-of-corner combos.
Setup 2:
2AAA5B2C delay 4C(2)623B 4C(2)623A(1-2)623C j.8 j.22A j.22B
623C must hit once only, after the wallbounce, so you end up in the corner. The A pit might need a slight delay on characters with slow wake up speed to not make it explode early. From this position you have your two airdashes to trick your opponent into his death. From my testing, double airbackdash into j.C / j.C (whiff) 5B is the strongest form. However, the mixup itself is not as good as the first one, as holding back can make them walk away from you and screw up the spacing. You can airdash forward then backward to end up outside, but it's not that ambiguous, and you lose the pits.
Hitconfirm off j.C hit is:
j.C land 5B5C...
Hitconfirm off j.C (whiff) is:
j.C (whiff) land 5B ... 5B5C...
Combos you can go for from the above hitconfirms: (damage on VSion, unreduced)
...214[A] sj.9 j.22B j.22A j.C land 5B5C4C(2)623B (~7600, easiest IMO)
...214[A] sj.9 airdash j.C land 5B5C4C(1)623B 4C(2)623B x2 (~7200, styling)
...j.9 slight delay j.22A j.C land 5B5C4C(2) 2C3C623B x2 (~7900, no delays because of gravity)
You can stick 236C in there for even more damage.
And a better 623C confirm (might be character specific)
623c j.22C airdash j.C land 3C j.C dj.BC AT
PS. If you land this you can be a REAL F-VAKIHA!
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holy shi
:fap: :fap: :fap:
I saw Hato go for this in a few sets, but this takes it a step further! Good shit Funky kun
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omg that damage fffffffffffffu-
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Hey Funky, divorce Vermillion and marry ME! <3
But seriously though, this thread and the info you've provided has been a GINORMOUS help in getting me started. I have a lot on my plate atm but I'm confident that I can become at least halfway decent considering every last bit of data for this chara is conveniently centered in this thread.
Nice work!
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Glad I am of help. =)
I just realized that you can go for the setup from the first rep of Momiji loop, like this:
2AAA5B2C delay 4C(2)623B 4C(2)623A(1-2)623C j.8 j.22A j.22B
Negligible damage gain, but hey, it's free damage. ;D The timing of 4C should take the opponent's weight into account, as if they're too high 623A will whiff, and if they're too low, the first hit of 623C will hit, ruining the setup. On the bright side, this setup removes the chance of igniting 22A if done too early, because the opponent will be invulnerable from the 3 groundbounces/wallslams.
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Just wanted to say thanks for the info funky. Also just to mention (you kinda mentioned it when you posted it) this combo 623c j.22C airdash j.C land 3C j.C dj.BC AT is definitely character specific. I've been trying to find a combo for the characters it doesn't work on but I'm not having the best of luck (trying to find meterless combos off it since you did just blow 100 meter so blowing another hundred is a little too specific to be too useful, but a combo off 623c in the corner is VERY useful). So far my ideas have been along the lines of 623c BEj214b dash 4c something. I can't quite figure out something to do off the 4c after the otg BEj214b (if you have meter though j214c is guaranteed to work and you can get a real combo off it like 623c j214c dash 623a j22c IAD jc land jbc djbc AT). Maybe you can find something I couldn't, I'll keep playing around with it though (I love parentheses in case you couldn't tell).
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j.BE214B is a nice idea for fullscreen which I haven't explored before. It seems this is the best you can do from it, but it's character specific: (e.g. doesn't connect on Ryougi)
623C cancel into j.BE214B (it should hit non-OTG) dash j.9 j.BC dj.C AT
I believe the best combo is:
623C airdash j.A (whiff) land - 2C3C j.BC dj.BC AT for damage
- 2C623B 2C3C623B for knockdown
What I've been doing most often: (mostly because its easy, but I should learn the above combo; knockdown from random DP is good)
623C airdash late j.22A land 3C j.BC dj.C AT
In any case, you should use 623C only as reversal and mostly when you're in the corner, so you shouldn't worry about a corner combo too much. Both of the above work in the corner.
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j.BE214B is a nice idea for fullscreen which I haven't explored before. It seems this is the best you can do from it, but it's character specific: (e.g. doesn't connect on Ryougi)
623C cancel into j.BE214B (it should hit non-OTG) dash j.9 j.BC dj.C AT
I believe the best combo is:
623C airdash j.A (whiff) land - 2C3C j.BC dj.BC AT for damage
- 2C623B 2C3C623B for knockdown
What I've been doing most often: (mostly because its easy, but I should learn the above combo; knockdown from random DP is good)
623C airdash late j.22A land 3C j.BC dj.C AT
In any case, you should use 623C only as reversal and mostly when you're in the corner, so you shouldn't worry about a corner combo too much. Both of the above work in the corner.
Ah sorry I worded that wrong I guess. When I said 623c combos in the corner I meant as a reversal to get out of the corner haha. But cool, anything that can turn a 623c into more than just a get out of the corner card is nice. I'll keep playing around with stuff, fresh outlooks always help creating new combos and mixups.
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Is there a imba-character in MBAACC ?
I'm a newbie :D
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I finally decided to switch from C-VAkiha to F-VAkiha and so far first impressions are good and overall, F feels like a more powerful character. I guess we'll see. Anyway, I have a few questions about some things, unfortunately mostly execution based.
1) 2AA5B5C4C(2) j.AC dj.C j.236B j.A (whiff) j.BE214B (corner carry). I can't for the life of me get this combo, is it character specific? The j.AC dj.C j.236B is picky enough itself and I'm not positive how to make it consistent on every character, either by the dj.C whiffing or the j.236B whiffing. I also can't even do the whiffed j.A into pillar once; the version with j.236C I can do easily, so I understand the concept. I've watched hours of match videos and haven't seen this combo used once, so I imagine maybe it's a really difficult and unreliable combo.
2) 2AA5B5C4C(1) tk j.22B airdash j.C etc. Just wondering how you guys input your tk for these sorts of combos. I've been doing 282, although it seems like a tk9 is required depending on spacing sometimes. It's a little weird for me to cancel the 4C on the first hit for half of these combos, but I assume practice will solve my problems unless any of you have any tips on how to do the many tk 22 motions F-VAkiha seems to have. Probably the one I have the most trouble with doing consistently is doing a tk 22 motion off of a jump in, such as IAD j.C, as sandwiching a properly timed jump cancel between two 2 directional inputs is a little awkward.
3) tk j.236a right in front of someone seems to whiff in certain situations. Delaying the input slightly so you're more above them makes it work, but it's annoying and I'm wondering if that's all there is to it.
4) 2AAA5B2C delay 4C(2)623B 4C(2)623A(1-2)623C j.8 j.22A j.22B. I have no idea how to make this work. I successfully cancel the 623 after one hit but it doesn't seem to let the 623C hit only once. What am I missing? If need be I can record a video of myself attempting the combo.
5) Lastly, just wondering about opinions on this, but are there any matchups against certain characters that either C-VAkiha or F-VAkiha is considered significantly more effective in than the other? I know some high-level players play multiple moons for this reason, and as an example I remember in one match video I saw, the F-VAkiha player switched to C to play against an F-Kouma. Also, any comments on how you think the overall playstyle and mindset of a player should change between playing Crescent and Full, if any, would be appreciated.
Thanks for any help.
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1) Yeah it's definitely character specific, and somewhat unreliable. I used it before I knew you can change direction on j.236C, but now only go for j.236C combos, as they connect easier, do more damage and can set up the same oki. It depends on their air hitbox and it's very picky about pre- and post-jump spacing. The goal is to get on top of them with the last j.C for it to connect, but that simply won't work on some chars. On others, it's very easy (e.g. Wara). The whiff A into pillars is the same as with j.236C with the difference that non-EX puffballs have greater recovery, so you have to hit the j.A on the first frames after recovery to be able to stick the air pillars before landing.
2) I can get the tk to work correctly only with 227x. However, I use keyboard, so take it with a grain of salt. Spacing-wise, I think you should be fine with directions 7 and 8 most of the time. I haven't found any trick to make tk combos easier, so I rarely go for them in matches, as they are easy to drop. I also find it hard to cancel 4c on the first hit on this combo, as if I input it too fast, the tk doesn't come out. And sometimes the input get screwed from the hitstop. :/ As for using TKs in other situations - from IAD j.C it's very easy to get pit to hit on block, as you can just normally jump and then input 22 really fast. I haven't tried to connect it on hit.
3) If you do one 2A and then TK j.236A, it shouldn't whiff on anyone, even if you do it on the first frame after the jump - and that's really strong for corner lockdown. If you're too far out and need to jump over them for it to work, it's riskier because they have more time to react to it. (It's not so hard to airthrow on reaction actually)
4) Can you do the non-Momiji starter for this setup? If you can, it shouldn't be very difficult to make this work. You need to hit them with 4C while they're up high for only one hit of 623C to hit, and it depends on their hitbox. Also, it can work from 2 hits of 623A just fine. If you're always getting multiple hits on 623c, try a little delay between 623A and 623C. If that doesn't work, just go for the easier setup - you're going to be confirming into massive damage anyway, 200 damage won't matter. xD
5) In my opinion, F is generally more effective than C. You have stronger neutral, deal more damage from randomness, and can still get knockdown at the cost of 100 meter. Puffballs simply destroy antiair attempts. I mainly play H and F, I think C is more of a middle ground between the two. Moon picks from my personal experience:
C-Nero - F
C/H Wara - F
F Len - F
C-Roa - F
C-Ciel - H
C/H Ryougi - H
F-Miyako - H (maybe C is better)
For differences in playstyle, I believe C and F have generally different gameplans. With C you are fishing for a knockdown (Momiji, j.C) to start pressure and you rely on pit pressure in the corner for most of your damage. F has better neutral and get a ton of damage when you want to burn meter, so you can play keepaway more effectively, while still having deadly corner game if you corner them.
If you still have any questions, feel free to post some vids and I'll do my best to help.
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I do 227+B as well, with 7 and B simultaneously.
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-Also a small note about inputting 227A/B/C: Because of the reduced input buffer, you must do this motion slightly different than in PS2. In PS2, you could hit 2, 2, 7, and then the attack button after all the direction inputs. In CC, you must simultaneously input the attacking button and 7. So for example, you would input an Ex-Pit as 2, 2, 7+C. (No space between 7 and C at all)
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So... flamepits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0aNzFF3OU
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Flamepits.
I want to discuss some stuff shown in the video that's actually viable for matches:
1:05
Momiji Loop -> sj.9 j.22A j.B IAD j.22A j.B (/whiff) 2A
This is easier to block than it looks. You hit the ground at the same time and sticking out the j.B doesn't change the timing of the landing so the opponent can switch to low block at the same time to block both options. Still perfectly viable against unprepared opponents, but can be easily defended if trained against.
1:20
Momiji Loop -> 2C delay 4C j.22A j.236A into 3-way
I love this mixup. You have ambiguous options, screws DP inputs, and is hard to react to visually. If you hit the opponent 50% with the mixup in the corner (with good use of yomi should be a better %), the expected damage (taking the fact that you hit only half of the time) is greater than the max damage confirms. That's why if it won't kill the opponent I always go for this mixup. (from Momiji loop or 623A)
1:40
The fuzzy actually works of Wara, yay! And that's a great hitconfirm that's not too hard to do! I wish there were ways to make this work on other characters. :(
1:50
Legit stuff.
2:05
Momiji Loop -> sj.9 j.22A airdash j.C tk j.22A [j.A IAD j.C] / [j.A (whiff) 2A]
Doesn't seem too strong. The j.A whiffs only if they block low, and it's generally easy to react to the IAD, so it's not stronger than a normal IAD mixup.
2:20
Momiji Loop -> 2C 623A j.9 j.22a j.236A airdash j.22A j.C (hits crossup) j.8 left/right
This seems like a really strong mixup. I'm not on my PC at the moment and I can't test it, but it seems as the opponent gets up they turn towards VAkiha so it's not a real crossup. If this is the case, it can be easily backdashed, as you can't fake which side you'll land the j.C on. I'll test this later and if it's not backdashable, this is one great mixup!
2:40
WAT?! :psyduck:
2:50
Here it is shown how you can bait heat (and possibly backdashes) from the above mixup, which is nifty. Time to press some buttons and watch pits go off. :prinny:
3:30
The 623C setup with some hitconfirms. I prefer setting up only two pits as it gives you more time to trick them into getting hit, and still deal considerable damage. Meh, the mixup is not too strong, so you might as well go for the max damage with 3 pits.
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I want to discuss some stuff shown in the video that's actually viable for matches:
You mean the whole video, right!? Down with that american attitude, MAKE these things happen! Bring the hype! The curbs! Defeat that hateful SFxT!
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:
Realtalk though that vid.... :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap:
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Yeah, that flamepit loop looks like an infinite.
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Thanks for the help everyone.
-Also a small note about inputting 227A/B/C: Because of the reduced input buffer, you must do this motion slightly different than in PS2. In PS2, you could hit 2, 2, 7, and then the attack button after all the direction inputs. In CC, you must simultaneously input the attacking button and 7. So for example, you would input an Ex-Pit as 2, 2, 7+C. (No space between 7 and C at all)
Yeah, I remember reading about this in the other thread a long time ago and generally use it, seeing how it's much easier to tk without the super jump getting in your way. However, I've found that tk8 is a bit easier for me when cancelling 4C, and super jump properties don't occur. I'm having problems doing 227 or 228 fast enough with my slow fingers to cancel out of the first hit of 4C properly, but 282 seems to be actually physically possible by my standards. I might just need to forget about it and never go for 4C(1) j.22B combos. 623A pit followups aren't too bad.
Also, I've been goofing around in the lab practicing staggers when I came up with a sort of interesting 6C setup. You have on the first post in the blockstring section: "2AAA6C (use 2A's to move out of their 2A range, risky)." I've found that, using dash-in momentum, doing 2AAA5C6C (or any combination of 2A/5A) leaves you at the perfect range to hit them with the tip of your overhead with a lot more blockstun on their shoulders, as well as some other useful properties. Notes on this:
1) Works best in the corner. Midscreen, if they were to get hit, it will hit; otherwise if they hold back to block high the 6C will whiff, which can be dangerous. Take out some jabs and it should work a bit better.
2) Interestingly enough, if you set the opponent to all guard and standing, when you run up to do 2AAA5C6C, even though they have to block the first hit low, the 6C whiffs. If you set them to all guard and crouching, more often than not it works. I imagine this isn't a problem in-game as nobody is going to be standing and switch to low on the first active frame of your 2A, although I'm still not exactly sure what specifically causes this.
3) On some characters it will whiff entirely, such as Nero. Using only two 2A/5A works on everyone to similar effect.
4) Here's the interesting part; it's a counterhit bait. Against most characters set to "Recover A" (do 2A on first possible frame), it will generally trade counterhits, but because they are airborne you recover in time to combo them (dash up 5AA jc j.ABC dj.BC works). Against "Recover B" it's generally a clean counterhit. With some experimentation against a number of characters, I've found that it's not a tech trap entirely, it's simply their extended limb that gets hit. C-Nanaya's or C-Nero's 2A, for example, has quite a long range and hits you out of the 6C, so there's at least 5 or 6 frames that your opponent is out of blockstun in there, although against B moves or reasonable "mashing" I imagine it's a tech trap. Most characters don't have the ability to do this with their 2A, however, and this is considering your opponent lands their jab on the first or second possible frame out of blockstun, in lieu of the easy option of you staggering the 5C into 4C or 623A.
It's not some earth-shattering mixup, but the ability to bait counterhits and beat mashing with a relatively high amount of safety while also keeping the option open for 2AAA5C > dash-in reset because of the possibility of a staggered 4C or 623A makes this seem like a decent way to set up a 6C if you're in the mood for it and know they're looking for that pause in your blockstring to hit buttons. Doesn't catch jumpouts for shit, but oh well. If you want a faster mixup, drop any number of jabs; it'll still catch most mashing I imagine, even if you just do 5C6C.
If this seems even the slightest bit useful I'll make a short video about it because it's not often I come up with something mildly "new" and can give back to the community. Otherwise oh well, I had some fun doing training mode science.
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Mixup at 2:20 is free to backdash. :emo: :gonk:
Pit loop is an infinite, because gravity scaling doesn't affect it. However, it is burstable because of the high hit count and the meter it gives the opponent.
The situations from which you can confirm the loop are:
Hit them with a pit behind them. If you can do this from random hits, I don't wanna play against you. :slowpoke: The other way is the 623C setup, but there are better combos that deal the same damage without giving them free max.
Hit them with charge pillars. (works from air pillars only?)
Can be done after j.236C, but anyone half awake won't get hit by this.
So I don't think it's really match practical. Unless you happen to play against Kusoru. :laffo:
EDIT:
@ Omicron Austin
Yeah, it seems 3 2A's is character specific, but 2 of them work on everyone. It's a nice little setup, I put it in the first post. Most of my pressure revolves around A and B staggers so I haven't given this any thought. Sadly you can't go low from 5C, but the blockstun conditioning is good.
Beware when resetting from 5C as it's obviouly negative and has huge pushback.
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Hi oll! :) I just started to play as Vakiha and i have problems vith her tk8 and tk9 in her advanced combo (her 22x series tk) Instead of pit it triger a sj :psyduck: I still can do a tk7 so i want to know wtf with this mechanic?! This usess alot of time in Vakiha gameplay so maybe there some trick to it that i dont know? I tried it on pad and keyboard but there were the same result :emo:
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You can't super jump backwards, so 22 7+B won't ever super jump.
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You can't super jump backwards, so 22 7+B won't ever super jump.
Thx captain :nyoro: Well I dont ask about WHY i can do a tk7, but HOW can i do a tk 8 or 9
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Eh, do you have a video of tk8/9 22s? I can't think of how it would work without superjumping. I can see tk8/9 236/214/623/421, but I don't know how to tk8/9 22s.
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well i dont see a video with those, still ps2 vakiha wiki (is the blank spot on the pc version though) says:
1) 2A 5B 5C 4C(1 hit) tk8 22A Airdash jC land jBC djC Airthrow (Adding more than one 2A makes links easier due to gravity scaling. Tight links, best midscreen meterless damage.)
1)2A 5B 5C 623A tk9 22C Airdash jC land jBC jBC Airthrow (Half-way of stage to corner carry. Adding more than one 2A makes links easier. Pit can be omitted.)
3)For crossup mixup, end with 2C 4C(1hit) tk9 22A j236A/B.
So i thought that you can somhow manage to do a tk 8&9 without sj by some magic trick or whatsoever...
PS Did you guys notice that her boots on the VS screen didnt match the one on her actual sprite? :nyoro:
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I don't know if V-Akiha players have a specific technique they use for neutral and forward TK 22s, but what I do for them when I don't want super jump is hold the 8 or 9 direction for a short time instead of just tapping 8 or 9. So it would be 2[8]2. Or depending on personal preference on how to input them, you can try 22[8]. I'm not sure if this is a good answer for V-Akiha or not though.
-TexasTim-
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I have been working on my tk inputs lately, and this is what works for me (please note, keyboard user):
I do [4], [2] or [1] beforehand when doing tk236 series.
For tk 22x, in all directions, it just works if I input it as fast as possible. In the 4C(1)22x combos, you need to start inputting the commands before the 4C(1) comes out, you get the timing with training.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/Funky-kun/228.png) (http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/Funky-kun/227.png) (http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/Funky-kun/229.png)
228 229 227
EDIT: For some strange reason only one of the 3 images displays when I open this in Firefox. All three show up in IE and Chrome. :mystery:
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I have a question - what you do aboгt Neco's? I mean that they dont get hit by my aircombo no mater how fast i input it, and this dont change even when i extend number of 2a's at start, :psyduck:
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For Necos, do 2AA5B2C3C j.BC dj.BC AT.
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Can you please record a dummy file for me? No mater how i try it seeemed that i cant do аa AT even with sj :nyoro:
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Here you go. (http://www.sendspace.com/file/nk1ix7)
236C combos are very easy to connect as well.
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Oh, thanks :)
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I play her for some time and notice something - in her combo [2AA5B5C4C(2) j.AC dj.C j.236B j.A (whiff) j.BE214B (corner carry)] is the pain in the ass to conpirm 4C into j.A plus her j.236 often misses with this, but if you choose to input j.BC dj.C j.236B/A ... you easy can hit confirm and gain more damadge (around 500) and meter, and this is applies to all same combo with j.236 as ender.
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I have always done my tk22x as 282 and it works perfectly off 4C.
Stick user.
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I have always done my tk22x as 282 and it works perfectly off 4C.
Stick user.
You play on stick dont ya? =_='
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Has anyone found a use for her 236A/B.I feel theyre only there so you get punished if you miss a low-to-the-ground j236A/B :gonk:
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Has anyone found a use for her 236A/B.I feel theyre only there so you get punished if you miss a low-to-the-ground j236A/B :gonk:
nope, they're useless :teach: :prinny:
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Sometimes it will come out and do something unintentionally cool, though, and freak the hell out of your opponent.
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Random new tech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbPAKC-6RY&t=3m10s
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I hereby declare....MORE FLAMEPITS.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21402563
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Mother of god, what did I just watch :psyduck:
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Wait, are the pits still infinite in the latest revision?
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Yep.
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How do we avoid being pummeled?
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Pick a top tier.
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Then why even bother to stop once you've gotten the confirm? Are the confirms specific in any way? Is it execution abrrier? Setup prerequisite? Or simply stamina? Cuz it definitely doesn't suffer from scaling until the 8k mark, and it's pretty much force Circuit Spark on the opponent's end.
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I believe it's softbanned in Japan.
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This news is unpleasant. If it is, how many reps are you allowed to do?
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The only evidence I have of there even being a softban is that it's never been seen after a certain point in time in weekly tourneys. It's just speculation.
EDIT: As far as I know.
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My speculation: it's hard as hell to pull, and only Tobari can do it. That video with lots of it might be a compilation or something. People don't continue because it's not worth it imo. Okizeme or reset is much better since you'll give so much meter to your opponent and miss somewhere.
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Why not just use it to force people to forfeit meter?
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Why not just use it to force people to forfeit meter?
The pit loops are all finicky and you have to really understand the pit positioning relative to the opponent getting hit; otherwise the pit will push them in the wrong direction and you'll drop the combo.
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Doesn't holding 4 and 6 change the direction they go?
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Doesn't holding 4 and 6 change the direction they go?
Well, that makes it a lot easier :nyoro: :laffo: :laffo:
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Tricks. :v
:mystery: :mystery: :mystery:
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Doesn't holding 4 and 6 change the direction they go?
Well, that makes it a lot easier :nyoro: :laffo: :laffo:
No. I hate all of you. :gonk:
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I'd still much rather play against FVAkiha than the rest of the top tiers.
At least she dies.
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There's just not a lot of reason to learn finicky infinites when you can do easy things like Funky-kun's WUB WUB DAMAGE TECH oki setups. They die in two hits either way.
Your neutral is also good enough that you don't need to try your damnedest to ride one hit to victory (though you should obviously do so whenever you can anyways).
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There's just not a lot of reason to learn finicky infinites when you can do easy things like Funky-kun's WUB WUB DAMAGE TECH oki setups. They die in two hits either way.
Those require a set up and the corner. Pit infs don't.
Pit infs are not finicky. She can go into them from any 214 or j.214 or counter hit j.C. There are usually many opportunities to go into it in matches. Execution is pretty insane.
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The problem with the infinite is not learning it (its not complex in its structure) but actually managing to execute it and more importantly, being able to hitconfirm into it. While the opportunities to do so do exist, doing it on reaction is very very difficult. Tobari is the only player I've seen consistenly doing it.
Not too sure about the softban, as far as I remember there wasn't one on KohaMech's infinite until they patched it.
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The problem with the infinite is not learning it (its not complex in its structure) but actually managing to execute it and more importantly, being able to hitconfirm into it. While the opportunities to do so do exist, doing it on reaction is very very difficult. Tobari is the only player I've seen consistenly doing it.
This. You can turn around a whole match if you land infinite on a random pit, but, well, you have to confirm infinite off a random pit. It's more practical to just know generic damage combos and setups unless you have S-tier hitconfirming skills.
Wasn't very clear, I admit.
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No prob. Unfortunately, I have yet become wealthy enough to chuck my stick out the window at my leisure. If I decide to, I better know whether it's worth it or not.
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I disagree. I think it's trivial to confirm off BE214s and BEj.214s. If you expect them to block in the corner, then a blocked j.C can lead into a j.22 blockstring, and so you can auto pilot that for j.C counter hit confirms.
It's only marginally more difficult to hitconfirm off a random low j.214, so long as the last hit of j.214 hits. The hard part for me is maintaining the combo with all the wacky directionals needed to control the pit directions, double jumping to continue, and tking j.22 after the the j.214s to rep the loop. Purely execution, which can be ironed out given enough time.
I want to learn this char solely to do this inf.
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This is gonna sound kinda off-topic, but when you guys are doing constant TK j.22s on stick, how often do you touch the edge of the gate? Or in general?
It's just that when I was mashing out all this fastfall stuff with Nanaya, I damaged the stick to the point where very occasionally, after doing a high jump, when the stick snaps back into neutral, it touches the "2"
direction switch, automatically forcing a fastfall, which ruins a lot of my air combos.
I'm not riding the edges, but when I IAD and DP, I do hit the edges out of habit? Is this normal?
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That's a spring thing, probably. Tighten it up.
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Could well be, it is used after all. Thanks.
Still, I do want to improve my form. So back to the original question: How often do you find yourself touching the edges?
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I hit the edges during 623s, 22s, and tks.
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There prolly isn't a motion that I don't use the gate on. My advice is to try and get into the habit of not just letting go of the stick to let it return to neutral, and instead leave your hand on it and ease it back to neutral. Every stick I've used has this issue unless your spring is very tight.
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Just wondering, can this character combo into 6C? That's honestly the only reason I decided to pick up Half instead. I prefer this character's movelist symmetry (air and ground specials), and the 22x series voice acting.
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It's possible, but so unlikely that it might as well be impossible. You can spend ten years playing FVAkiha and never have a situation come up that allows it.
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I love this character. Aside from 2BBB.
On the other hand, for the basic BnB:
stuff>4C>j.AC>dj.C>j.236B, sometimes the j.236B will whiff. How do I control the positioning on this?
Also, how do you play against Necos? Break down and cry about your awkward air normals?
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End with 236C instead or change aircombo as necessary for hitboxes.
236C knockdown is ridiculously good and other 236s are finicky, so I pretty much never end in 236B.
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Then what is your meterless ender?
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Meterless ender is take the time to learn how to adjust the timing of your air combo to position yourself relative to the opponent. Just spend the meter~
It is a useful skill, though, especially for strange confirms with anti air 5A. At the very least, knowing how to drop the enemy and how to raise them is important.
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Then what is your meterless ender?
If you don't have the meter to 236C, you're probably doing it wrong.
If you're that pressed, I'd personally just airthrow. I can't get 236B/A to reliably end aircombos outside the corner, and in the corner, there are better combo paths with better oki than aircombo.