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Author Topic: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread  (Read 36531 times)

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Offline Schnitzel

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2012, 02:03:36 PM »
It's not exactly new or anything, but the most damaging setup (I think?) from 50-65% of screen for Momiji loop is:

j.C 5B 5C 4C 5A6AA 4C 5C 2C 623B 4C 2C 623B 4C 2C 623B  :prinny:

Doing that is okay but against certain characters, the extra hit messes up the gravity and may cause the last hits of the final 623B to whiff, which kills the entire purpose of doing that combo
So should I omit the last 2C and just 4C 5C 2C 623B 4C 2C 623B 4C 623B for those characters?

Offline Kyhz

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2013, 04:09:47 AM »
I was watching footage from Winter Brawl (props to the people who showed up, and to LivingShadow for recording) and saw LPT use 623C in a momiji loop, followed by air dodge jc (or jc dodge, not 100% of the order) double airdash then go low. I'm kinda puzzled by this setup. Well, it worked for him there, but it seems you get less damage, worse positioning and you have to blow meter compared to completing the momiji loop or going for a normal reset. Or maybe it was just an execution error and I'm reading way too much into this, but it didn't seem like it.

Reference:
http://www.twitch.tv/livingshdw/b/373048489 1:00:25 mark

Offline Tonberry

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2013, 10:06:09 AM »
I was watching footage from Winter Brawl (props to the people who showed up, and to LivingShadow for recording) and saw LPT use 623C in a momiji loop, followed by air dodge jc (or jc dodge, not 100% of the order) double airdash then go low. I'm kinda puzzled by this setup. Well, it worked for him there, but it seems you get less damage, worse positioning and you have to blow meter compared to completing the momiji loop or going for a normal reset. Or maybe it was just an execution error and I'm reading way too much into this, but it didn't seem like it.

Reference:
http://www.twitch.tv/livingshdw/b/373048489 1:00:25 mark

You can pull them slightly out of the corner with 6c 623c allowing for more mixups.  At 1:02:05 you see him do it again except he goes for crossup that time.  Also where you timestamped, he would have gone into autoheat without much health to restore and potentially have either low meter in next round or no meter to help him escape pressure in that round if he didn't go for that combo. 
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Offline Kyhz

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 02:45:39 AM »
Aha, that makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation.

Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2013, 09:23:57 PM »
So, everyone's all happy with our confirms off of 5B, 5C, 4C etc. But I'm new to her mixup/hitconfirm game in general. Does 2BBB EVER get used? What should my blockstrings look like? What do I reset pressure with? What do I confirm off a random 2C midscreen? Airborne confirms? Please help, knowing the Momiji Loop means jack if the only confirm I know is stuff>5A>6AA>rape.

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2013, 09:47:23 AM »
So, everyone's all happy with our confirms off of 5B, 5C, 4C etc. But I'm new to her mixup/hitconfirm game in general. Does 2BBB EVER get used? What should my blockstrings look like? What do I reset pressure with? What do I confirm off a random 2C midscreen? Airborne confirms? Please help, knowing the Momiji Loop means jack if the only confirm I know is stuff>5A>6AA>rape.

@2BBB: No. It's slow as all hell and even if the last hit connects, it leads to nothing more than air combo. (which is butt for HVA) 2B is only really used when you want to beat people that do wakeup 5D or to correct height problems in the momiji loop.

@blockstrings: Half and Crescent moon characters have a lot of room for creativity in their blockstrings thanks to the ability to chain your normals backwards (reverse beating.) VAkiha has lots of normals that move her forward such as 5B, 6A, 5C and long-ranged normals that can keep your opponent from jumping/mashing at long distances like 4C and 2C. Basically, play the staggering normals game until they budge. Once your scare them into respecting your normals, you can start doing pressure resets.

@Pressure resets: If you're at close range, you can reset pressure simply by reverse beating into 2A/5A and then going for an IAD or dash to resume pressure. Ending your blockstring with either jab and then dashing back in will give you all of your normals to begin a new blockstring again. Midscreen, VAkiha can reset pressure vs respecting enemies with BE214B and tk j.22B. Both are pretty slow on startup, but if they are blocked then your reward is large frame advantage. In the corner, you can use 214A to reset pressure as it is neutral on block.

@random 2C confirms: Depends on distance. Most of the time I will jump cancel the 2C and go for an air dash mixup since 2C gives untechable knockdown. If you're expecting the 2C to connect, you can combo into 623B for untechable knockdown + push towards corner. Another route would be 2C 5BB if you're at close range, and then follow up with air combo. To get corner carry, you can do:
->2C 623C 2C 623B 4C 623B
->2C 227C dash 4C 5C 2C 5A(whiff) 6AA 6C dash 2C 623B 4C 623B 4C 623B
Obviously both cost 100 meter but give momiji knockdown in the corner.

@airborne confirms: If you're talking about counter hits, drop to the ground and follow up with 5B 4C j.AC j.AC air throw for an easy bnb. It's possible to momiji loop off air counter hits midscreen too but it's a bit tough. In the corner, you can go straight from aerial counter hit to 2C momiji loop. If you land random air hits that aren't counter hit, for example j.A, you would just want to confirm with something like
->j.AAC dj.AC air throw.

Hope I answered all your questions sufficiently!
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2013, 06:04:07 PM »
Wow, thanks for the quick reply and the impressive information! Two more questions though if you don't mind:
<1> Why j.AC? I thought j.B did the trick
<2> 227C is TK j.22C, right?
<3> And I often find the 5A of my 5A>6AA string whiffing, how can I remedy that?

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2013, 08:39:57 PM »
Wow, thanks for the quick reply and the impressive information! Two more questions though if you don't mind:
<1> Why j.AC? I thought j.B did the trick
<2> 227C is TK j.22C, right?
<3> And I often find the 5A of my 5A>6AA string whiffing, how can I remedy that?

1. j.AB/j.AC are pretty much interchangeable. C does slightly more damage.
2. Yep
3. Input (read: mash) it faster. At some distances confirming into 5A6AA will cause 5A to whiff but the 6AA will still combo. However, there are certain spacings that it will not. In these situations, cut confirms short with 2C 623B.
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2013, 08:22:13 AM »
1. j.AB/j.AC are pretty much interchangeable. C does slightly more damage.
3. Input (read: mash) it faster. At some distances confirming into 5A6AA will cause 5A to whiff but the 6AA will still combo. However, there are certain spacings that it will not. In these situations, cut confirms short with 2C 623B.
<1> I was actually talking about j.BC>j.BC, like everyone else's BnB. I'm pretty sure that does the most damage.
<3> In what instances can 5A(w)>6AA combo? When the opponent is floating?

Offline Sashi

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2013, 09:14:28 AM »
j.AAC dj.AC gives more carry and is easier. It does do less damage, though, especially if it's in a counter hit combo from a move with good proration. If it's from a j.C air counter hit or something, I'd do j.BC dj.BC, but otherwise, j.AAC dj.AC. j.B and j.C have really awkward hitboxes. :v

5A(whiff) 6AA combos from near max range 4C on a grounded opponent or (most likely) in the harder air counter hit/shield counter/pit/etc pick up combo (4C 5C 2C 5A6AA).
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 09:16:52 AM by Sacchin 22A »
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Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2013, 11:37:33 AM »
Getting the correct height to do j.BC dj.BC is actually pretty situational. Use j.AC in most situations for consistency.

5A will whiff on grounded opponents when you hit with max range 4C or 5B. Vs airborne opponents, you actually want the 5A to whiff in combos where it is used. (This puts them at the proper height so 6AA can be followed up after, but this really only applies to HVA's more advanced combos)
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2013, 12:33:41 PM »
Thanks guys~ that 5A whiff was really becoming a pain in my hitconfirming butt. BTW Sacchin, are you stalking me (jk), or are you just a jack of all trades on these forums?

Offline Sashi

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2013, 01:04:31 PM »
No, these are just questions that anyone can answer. Like just a few seconds in training mode and you can see that j.B and j.C have awkward hitboxes that requires you to be at the right height for j.BC to connect. The 5A6AA thing is just from watching HVAkihas play. If it were a question that required in-depth character knowledge, I'd wait for LPT to answer~ Plus, the forums get no activity so I just check the newest posts.
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
I see. I often find myself doing the same thing for most fighting games I play, but the lack of an free for all infrastructure mode really kills my PvP experience. That, and Melty Blood is one of the most free-form 2D fighters I've ever played, which makes forming a general playstyle slightly more difficult. Do you play against humans often?

And to stay on topic:
<1> What are is the optimal followup from a j.B/2B? I often directly chain into 5A6AA just to be safe. Or if there are more practical overhead/low starters, what would be my BnB string?
<2> How should I prioritize my meter usage? And how should I be following up midscreen 623Cs?

EDIT:
<3> Wait a sec, is 2A jump cancellable in this game?
<4> I haven't tested this yet, but doesn't 5C have huge knockback on floating opponents? How does 5C>2C combo on a floating opponent?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 09:38:52 AM by hipikachu »

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2013, 09:12:16 AM »
Your lows of choice are 2A and 2B. Your overhead of choice is j.C. (j.B will whiff crouching opponents) 6C may be used for overhead combos too, but they change in the corner due to it's wallslam effect.
Midscreen Bnb of 2A/j.C:
->2A 5C 4C 5A 6AA 6C dash 5B 2C 623B 5B 2C 623B 5B 2C 623B
Corner bnb:
->2A 5C 4C 2C 623B 5B 2C 623B 5B 2C 623B

You omit the 5A6AA in the corner because this gives you the option of going for half-momiji setups, which are not possible if the 5A6AA is included. It also adds no damage.

Meter management in half moon depends. In most cases, you don't want to enter the second round with >150 meter because that means you will likely reach 200 and enter heat when you have little life to regain. So, you may consider blowing 100 meter at the start of the round via j.22C or shield bunkering very soon after the round begins. If you are in the end of the first round, the same things apply. If you connect with a reversal 623C, the combo is:
->623C air dash j.A(whiff) 2C 623B 4C 623B

2A is jump cancelable on hit. This applies to most normals in MBCC. You will find that most normals/specials are not jump cancelable on block in this game.

5C does have wallslam effect on airborne opponents, but because 5C gatlings directly into 2C, the 2C will connect before they have traveled far from VAkiha, allowing for the combo to continue
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2013, 06:30:10 PM »
Oh, I see. I was not aware that crouching moves were jump-cancellable in this game. Only one character in BB has a move with those properties, and he's fraud IMO. That, and I also didn't know her 2A hit low. Does that mean it suffers the same slow startup other low-hitting 2As have? (7 frame startup)

Also, would it be possible to find her frame data anywhere? I would like to have a general feel of what moves are neutral on block and what moves can be mashed out of.

And regarding combos. I now have full screen combos, corner combos, but stupidly enough, I don't think I have a proper midscreen combo. If I'm too far from the corner, 6C wallbounds. If I omit 6C, my first Momiji rep ends midscreen. Frankly, her awesome corner carry is a bit TOO awesome for me, I've never had a fullscreen dash cancel before, nor a combo that actually tries to AVOID wallbounds.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 06:47:56 PM by hipikachu »

Offline Sashi

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2013, 07:39:08 PM »
2A is active on the 5th frame. The fastest 2A in the game is active on the 4th frame, so it's decent enough. Not the best hitbox, but it hits pretty far. It's an average 2A. In general, 2As are 5th frame and are low.

You can get frame data from FrameDisplay. Just open up 0002.p with it. For more general information, you have this, this, this, this, and this.

EDIT: Depending on how close you are to the corner, you can either just catch them faster after 6C before they hit the wall or just skip the 6C all together. Take a look at this.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 07:51:11 PM by Sacchin 22A »
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2013, 12:56:03 PM »
Wow, that's one hell of a useful program, didn't think any games in the Mizuumi Wiki would ever see complete frame data, thanks. Although, what I'm looking for is leaning more towards frame advantage and startup, rather than anything else. I may be a rookie at using the program, but is there any way to see these values?

Offline Sashi

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2013, 01:26:36 PM »
Startup you can find just by looking at the frame number at the bottom when the active frame comes out. Frame advantage, is a bit harder. You can do a real ghetto check by having the CPU block it, then set it to jump while he's still in blockstun and also jump yourself when you've recovered. Obviously doesn't work very well. Also doesn't work at all for moves that are jump cancelable on block. Other than that, you have to record the attack being blocked at 60fps and watch it back frame by frame. Pretty silly stuff.

You can always guess the hitstun based on what level you think the move is. Level 1 attacks have 12f blockstun, level 2 15f, and level 3 18f. Remember that if you hit during the first few frames a move becomes active, you don't go straight into recovery. You still have to wait out the rest of the active period. So if you hit with a move during the later active frames (meaty~) you're at a greater frame advantage.
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Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2013, 11:59:11 AM »
Hey guys, I'm back with more:
<1> What do I do off a wallslam? (Aerial 5C, Corner 6C, etc) I feel like it's actually hindering my combo potential, whereas in other fighting games, I would be escatic to land a wallbounce.
<2> TK j.236A>GT help. Is the throw supposed to connect before j.236A triggers. The link feels too tight.

Offline Sashi

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2013, 12:12:29 PM »
It's not just TKj.236A. It's 66 TKj9.236A. Without the dash momentum before TKj.236A, you won't be close enough to immediately throw afterwards.

And wallslams and ground bounces are very often a bad thing in Melty.
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Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2013, 05:10:02 PM »
In Melty Blood, you can only have up to 3 wallslam OR ground bounces per combo. (any combination of either past 3 will cause the combo to stop) V Akiha will typically save all her bounces for momijis. (623Bs) Ideally, I'd tell you not to use 5C at all in the corner, but just in case it happens you can follow up 623B 4C 623B for two momiji reps, or you can go straight into aerial normals to squeeze a bit more damage out of it. Off corner 6C, just do two reps of the momiji loop because the other combo is really hard/character specific. Two momiji reps will at least give you around 3K damage and a good knockdown.

For your second question, it's just like Sacchin 22A says. Practice the input as 662369A. You'll notice VAkiha won't jut backwards after placing the web like usual, she'll just drop right to the ground.
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2013, 07:28:16 PM »
Oh, so it's like advanced input in BB. Looks like all that TK Loop practice hasn't completely gone to waste just yet  ;D

Hmm...so to sum it up, H-Vakiha is more or less hitconfirm>623B into oblivion. I'm not quite sure if this is the character I'm looking for :psyduck:...I'll toy around a bit more to see if there's anything a bit more unique about her. In the meantime, F-Vakiha has a really adorable way of calling out 22x~ :fap:
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 07:31:07 PM by hipikachu »

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2013, 09:17:32 AM »
At a high level, H-VAkiha confirms literally every possible situation into corner carry + momiji knockdown. (shields, air ch, air throw etc) If that doesn't appeal to you, you might want to go for F or C, or perhaps even a different character.
<justzar> great anime <3

Offline hipikachu

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Re: MBAACC H-VAkiha thread
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2013, 10:27:14 AM »
I almost feel like I'm playing F-Nanaya. DP everything. How's the knockdown on Momiji? I've seen miracle oki pulled off in the corner off a Momiji knockdown, but how 'bout midscreen? I luv dem crossups.