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Offline Kirah

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MBAA Aoko Matchup Thread
« on: October 07, 2009, 09:58:22 AM »
I saw that the only matchup thread for Miss Blue is in MBAC and figured perhaps I could try and revive it, thought I may sound misleading my experience is still growing to fully understand my odds against other characters. So i'm looking toward more seasoned players to hopefully add to this thread and increase newer players understanding of their odds.

Offline Tonberry

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Re: MBAA Aoko Matchup Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 09:32:49 PM »
I'm going to start with Warachia because I also play him and there are good vids of C-Aoko vs him.

C/H Warachia - I'm grouping them together because minus 6aa and the differences between every Crescent and Half Moon style they're the same character.  I'm mainly going to refer to him as C-Wara though because no one plays H-Wara.  Zar prefers C/H Aoko against C-Wara because F-Aoko doesn't have rain so it's hard for her to get down due to his 2b being a godlike antiair.  The general style with C/H Aoko that you want to play is run around and zone him until you get a CH/move blocked that you can dash in and start pressuring.  Warachia is fairly weak once he has to block because he doesn't have any good reversals.  His backdash is kind of mediocre, you can 2aaa through 63214c(Shadow Warc) and 236c.  A deep air normal will hit him meaty if he blocks but if he does 623c it will whiff and you can land, block, then punish him for doing it.  His teleports have a decent amount of startup so he can't just peace out with them.  His heat is by far the best in the game though so you really need to watch out for that.  Proxy orbs are kind of terrible in this matchup so try to stay away from using them.  You have to make sure your pressure is solid though, as his 5b/2b have extremely good range.  If you push yourself too far out you have to take some sort of risk to get back in so watch out.  

How to CH Warachia for trying to ignore you

j236a - This is the move that keeps Warachia from just flailing around and completely ignoring you.  This can CH him out of the air and keep him from easily antiairing you.  
236a - This beats IAD in and will net you a free combo.  Also, because Warachia has a very big crouching hitbox, he will almost always get hit by this crouch blocking, which is very nice.
421a/b - Once you get one or two of these out Warachia has to really worry about how he's going to hit you.  All of his moves extend his hitbox so he gets CH very easily by these.  
623a - If Warachia tries to jump in from above with something you can hit him out of it with this

Warachia moves to worry about
jB in air to air.  His jB is significantly better than your air normals and will CH you if you try to beat him with anything other than rain once his hitbox is out.  Rain from above WILL CH it but if you don't have time to get it out and he's too close BLOCK.

Tornadoes are a very strong antizoning move in this game.  From his max distance tornado, Warachia can get ~3k if you're on the ground so make sure you aren't being too greedy with your zoning.

Once again, 2b is a great antiair.  Do not try to beat it(except in startup) with your air normals because you will ALWAYS lose to it.  You can use j236B --> j236C to tag him for decent damage if the Warachia player is autopiloting to keep him from being braindead with 2b.  You can also use j236a but there is a chance that Warachia 2b will clash with it and then you're kinda screwed.  

On to match analysis!

Sanaa vs Highspeed


0:18 - Sanaa tries to beat Wara in air to ground with a normal.  Don't do this, his 2b is a godlike antiair

0:24 - OTG into tornado.  Warachia can end an OTG in a tornado.  Depending on what version of the tornado he uses, he can techpunish neutral/back tech or forward tech into a combo.  Sanaa respects and doesn't tech at all.

0:30 - Highspeed whiffs 2c so Sanaa jumps out.  On the way down Highspeed reads where he's going to be and hits him out of airdash jA with jB.  Because Aoko can no longer do airdash forward rain there was no move Warachia was going to lose to but Highspeed drops the combo and the techpunish.

0:32 - Sanaa does reversal backdash into 421a instant pop. Held orbs are great for counterhitting Warachia but Highspeed doesn't do anything so nothing happens.  

0:34 - Infinite courage!  Sanaa bravely dashes out and chickenblocks air katto then throws out j236a to stop Warachia from dashing in.

0:37 - Sanaa gets stuffed again by Wara 2b trying to beat Warachia in air to ground.

0:41 - Jump back j236a to stop Warachia from flying in but Highspeed just stays on the ground

0:42 - Sanaa sets up proxy orb then does 236b.  236b is occasionally a good move against Warachia once you get him to respect you but he gets hit by tornado into a combo.

0:54 - Perfecto :|.  
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1:03 - Sanaa opens with retreating j236a, which is very safe vs Warachia.  Highspeed is patient and doesn't run into it.

1:04 - Fairly high orb to keep Highspeed from jumping in without throwing out an early normal, which Sanaa could easily CH.

1:19 - Sanaa super double jumps to get out of the corner and sends down rain on his way down.  IAD back rain again then 421a all to keep Warachia out.  Highspeed tornadoes though.

1:30 - lolol.  Great read by Sanaa.  Weak blockstring after the combo though.  He could have done some crazy stuff with held orb, fuzzy, or used it as a meaty so he didn't have to worry about heat.  Cancels it into proxy orb(why?) and Highspeed jumps out.

1:40 - Sanaa spends remaining max to set up an EX orb and 236c to keep himself safe

1:43 - IAD whiff shield?  No idea what Sanaa was going for but he gets hit by tornado and eats another combo.

1:50 - Sanaa backdashes because Highspeed pushed himself too far away to come in.  

1:52 - Low orb into repeat magic.  Highspeed tries to tornado again so he eats a combo.

2:00 - Highspeed messes up shield punish and Sanaa messes up kicking ass :(.  Sanaa was trying to get Highspeed to block low by faking overhead with 5[C] but Highspeed decided to shield it instead.

2:04 - Sanaa maneuvers out of the corner into j236a.    

2:05 - Jump double jump back j236a, land 236a.  236a is another solid move against Warachia because it has great range and CHs him if he tries to IAD in.  In this case, Highspeed tried to tornado but got hit out of startup.

2:07-2:16 - Watch how Sanaa maneuvers with Aoko in the air.  Aoko has 3 jumps and 2 airdashes so your opponent has to really guess when you're going to land and where you will.  Warachia also has to be worried about jumping and trying to hit her because if he guesses wrong he'll get CHed by j236a.

2:17 - Sanaa gets hit out of 236a or b, not sure which and loses.
--------------------
2:30 - Sanaa opens with held orb then superjumps out of the corner, probably to try and punish tornado.

2:32 - j236a land 236a.  j236a kept Warachia from throwing out any moves but because Warachia was in the air, 236a was going to hit him out of anything if he decided to push any buttons.  

2:35 - j236 land 236a again.  This time Warachia was on the ground but because Highspeed tried to 5a he gets hit.

2:37 - 421b then 421a.  Sanaa gets out those held orbs to keep Warachia from pushing buttons.

2:40 - Highspeed dashes in and Sanaa pops the orb then goes into a blockstring.  623a gets blocked at 2:43.  Strangely, Highspeed tries to jump out instead of just punishing the recovery.

2:47 - Highspeed bunkers out of B mirror and cancels bunker with 2a.  I'm not sure if every non Half moon character in the game can get out of mirror with bunker but Warachia's is extremely good so he gets out here.

2:51 - Retreating j236a finally tags Highspeed and Sanaa goes into a combo.

2:57 - Sanaa opts to burn part of max on EX mirror to keep Highspeed blocking.  

3:01 - Another blockstring into 22a canceled into 214c mixup.  Highspeed blocks correctly.  

3:07 - RPS after 22a.  Sanaa thought he'd continue to block or mash(22a is +1) so he did 5aa but Highspeed jumps out.

3:12 - Highspeed pushes himself too far so Sanaa takes to the air.  j236a into land 236a.  Sanaa was likely not expecting Highspeed to get hit by the j236a and did 236a to keep him from pushing buttons.

3:15 - Held orb comes out then Sanaa sets up a proxy orb.  Highspeed dashes in so Sanaa superjumps out of there.  

3:17 - Sanaa tries to set up a low orb but Highspeed uses 2c.  A lot of players use 2c with various characters as a long distance poke against Aoko because it stops her from doing a lot of zoning moves.

3:23 - Maybe unaware that j2C is safe on block now, Sanaa gets CH out of something.

3:26 - Sanaa techs and gets hit by jB.  Because Highspeed did airthrow a little too high he couldn't effectively punish tech.

3:28 - Once again, Highspeed pushed himself out too far so Sanaa leaves the corner.  

3:37 - Highspeed blocks a j236a on the ground but Sanaa thinks that he's going to continue jumping so tries to fish for CH with dash jump jA.

3:38 - j236B into air EX orb then ground EX orb.  A good way to burn meter in max.  

3:42 - Tornado hits Aoko out of 236c.  I think Sanaa thought he was still in max and wanted to stall for a bit more time.  

3:50 - Highspeed guesses correctly but the time ran too low at this point and he loses.
--------------------
4:07 - Sanaa opens with 236a.  Very safe since Highspeed was on the complete other side of the screen.  

4:08-4:11 - Sanaa gets a 421a out then jumps around to get Highspeed to do something.  Eventually gets tagged by tornado.

4:20-4:28 - Very good decisions from both of them.  Sanaa does j236a to tag him on landing then sets up a proxy orb expecting Highspeed to not come near him.  He jumps into the top of tornado in the air but that leads to nothing.  He then baits 623a by jumping then tries to punish 2b in startup with jC.  Highspeed backdashes and does airdash back air katto so he doesn't get CH by something but still gets to attack.  Sanaa gets a CH 421b then dashes in to pressure.

4:34 - After doing 236a twice, Sanaa does 421a.  This is a good move because at the range he is at the only thing Warachia could hit him with without getting CH is tornado, which is fairly risky.  Unfortunately, held orb goes away because he has to block tornado shortly after.

4:43 - Blockstring into 4c --> 623b.  At the range he was at, Sanaa couldn't combo 4c into anything so he opted to do something to continue pressure.  

4:47 - Blockstring into 22a 214c mixup.  Highspeed guesses correctly and jumps out.

4:49 - Sanaa lands a j236a on him but doesn't combo as he was expecting it to get blocked.  He does a blockstring into throw then waits to see if Highspeed will tech.

4:56 - Sanaa is expecting Highspeed to jumpout after the 22a so he does 5c.  

4:58 - Double airdash mixup but Highspeed bursts after getting hit.

5:03 - After blocking tornado, Sanaa backdashes to create some more space and sets up 421a.  Instant pop doesn't get a hit but it's safe still.

5:06-5:08 - Sanaa gets two held orbs up but pops them a little too late.

5:11&5:13 - 421a instant pop hits Highspeed out of 5c.  

5:14 - Dash 3C!  Sanaa reads jump and almost wins the round.  He would have if he threw in an airdash jb.

5:18 - lololol.  Sanaa whiffs 236b to bait Highspeed then does arc drive to kill him.
--------------
5:30 - Starts with held orb.  Goes away quick though because of Highspeed's gdlk tornado skills.

5:36 - No idea why he thought that would get respected.

5:47 - Sanaa gets 421a out then sets up an air proxy.  

5:50 - Sanaa jumps out to punish a tornado but Highspeed didn't throw one out.

6:23 - Highspeed is too far out so Sanaa jumps away.

Although Sanaa lost pretty badly in 2 of the 3 rounds, don't go away thinking that this is a horrible or unwinnable matchup.  Most of the hits that Highspeed landed were off reading Sanaa making fairly good decisions and off mixups.  Highspeed also tends to play fairly aggressive in most matchups but he was forced to play a little bit more patient than he normally does because he would have been CH a lot if he tries to just run at Sanaa.

Tonberry's theoryfightan - I personally recommend going Half moon against Warachia.  Full struggles a bit in this matchup because Warachia antiair and air to air normals are extremely good and she doesn't have many zoning specials.  The tools Crescent has that Half doesn't are mainly not very useful in this matchup.  Ground proxy orbs get slain by his cape.  Activation gets Warachia off of you but bunker does that as well and is a lot safer.  Held shield is pretty bad in this matchup because Warachia jB into air katto will beat anything except maybe 421a if his jB is spaced.  Lack of 3rd jump hurts a bit in neutral, true, but she gets 214 series to keep Warachia from getting easy tornado combos.  214b is the preferred one to use if you think he's going to tornado.  If you start it too late, yeah you'll get caught in it, but tornado has more startup than 214b does so you'll hit him more often than not.  Single hit tornado can be air teched out of before he can do anything.  Meaty 214b 214c in Half keeps Warachia blocking after an airthrow into the corner, which is something Crescent can't do.  
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 12:32:35 AM by Tonberry »
[01:08] <Komidol> that marisa cosplayer that took my registration was sexy
[15:24] <Rokunaya> i've actually reached the point where some voice actors sound familiar in animes
[22:40] <bellreisa> i'm an insane murderer who is overwhelmed by nihilism but that's ok cause i'm in love

Offline Kirah

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Re: MBAA Aoko Matchup Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 08:18:05 AM »
Awesome post Tonberry now I feel much more confident in this match up even though I have yet to play it since NEC weekend. Hmm so what should the next opponent be Miyako perhaps or any others, just keep it nice and organized it can't be in disarray or it'll be just another dismantled thread.

Offline Tonberry

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Re: MBAA Aoko Matchup Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 10:47:29 PM »
Whoops, I forgot to mention Warachia arc drive.  Watch out when he's in max/heat/blood heat because he can punish you from full screen with 3k into nero oki. 
[01:08] <Komidol> that marisa cosplayer that took my registration was sexy
[15:24] <Rokunaya> i've actually reached the point where some voice actors sound familiar in animes
[22:40] <bellreisa> i'm an insane murderer who is overwhelmed by nihilism but that's ok cause i'm in love

Offline Kirah

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Re: MBAA Aoko Matchup Thread
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 06:58:36 AM »
Next is H-Vsion it has to be done, since this is all I ever fight. My take on this match won't be as quite informative as Tonberry's breakdown of Warachia vs C-Blue. Of course if any of my information is wrong and anyone who would want to correct me or add anything please do. Also remember this is from a Crescent Moon point of view.

The Match:
H-Vsion's strongest position is Aoko's weakest position in this match even with orbs if one isn't aware of certain things. Since she can pressure with BE6B and force Aoko out of the corner so proximity orbs fall short in that category, but setting a 421B orb and baiting the drill. The orb can be pop on her extension and net you a counter hit.

Positioning: I found being on the ground and controlling the middle being more of a favorable positioning of course with many orbs out though my summon placements definitely need work. The more obstructions she has the better though they may get ballsy and summon midscreen to try and get rid of your orbs and force you into the corner, or even be risky and try to super jump over your fortress and lead in with J.B or J.C depending on the situation. In the air is pretty unsafe with J.C counter hit fishing, though J.A can randomly beat it out possibly though i'd rather block it in the air.

The Corner: Here your options are definitely cut short under pressure, with H-Vsion's, summons, and tech traps and instant J2.B. Your two best options are 623C since 623A lost clash frames and it trades counter hits with Instant J2.B with H-Vsion in favor you get untechable counter hit. =/ You can hold shield instant J2.B and cancel into 623A also bunkering her 236C if used. Just stay calm in the corner and on knockdown watch for the J2.B crossup.

Strategy: Running away whilst controlling the field is one's best bet, placing orbs all the while, if the Sion is chasing blindly that only gives you more chances to set up and trap them. Cut down her space to move and take control of the areas so that she wastes her time with removing the obstructions or getting hit with them. This opens up for more possibilities, stay safe and be alert also carefully placing yourself taking her head on is ill advised.

Edit: Since V-Sion lack projectiles forcing her to come in with 236B with a lot of coverage isn't a bad idea, this will hopefully make them panic and anxious to come in thus they make a lot more mistakes. If they block it or you whiff it can be canceled into 214C or 421C for space control or slow them down from mounting an offense against you. Since 421C has a higher tolerance then most orbs Aoko can still take one hit and pop the summoning and setup into corner or oki which in my opinion is a better option due to the monstrous proration from the 421C orb.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 01:06:19 PM by Kirah »