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Author Topic: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!  (Read 39460 times)

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Offline Pincher

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2011, 12:07:27 PM »
I will say her 2C is way too good.
Like F koha's 5C and 2B from console?
You don't have enough science.

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2011, 12:14:12 PM »
Her 2c does look godlike, but to be honest, I don't see it as much worse than Kohaku's. I personally don't see Archetype as overly strong. Probably S tier, but not S++++++++ tier. The main thing is that people don't know how to play against her quite yet and after looking at the Ashe vs Leo matches I don't think that Ryougi is going to be having much trouble.

Archetype's main advantage is that she can cover large areas with most of her attacks. But you're more or less safe if you're outside of Lightpillar range as the only thing she can hit you with at that range is the EX Lightpillar, maybe BEj2b. That combined with the huge startup on the lightpillars advancing around them wouldn't be too hard.

Also, while Archetype can stay in the air nearly indefinitely (at least compared to the rest of the cast), her aerial movement speed is like a fish swimming through jello, even worse than Len. This does give her insane fuzzy and mixup ability, but at long range she won't be able to close distance very fast. Which gives her a disadvantage against characters like Mech, Aoko, and Ciel.

Here's my guesses for matchups:

Good matchups:
Miyako
Nanaya
Tohno
Kouma
Satsuki
Mostly characters with a limited range. Miyako and Kouma probably having the worst matchups.

Bad matchups:
Ciel
Mech
Aoko
Roa
Warc
Wara
Characters with good to decent air to air or ground to air projectiles. Wara and Roa would probably be the best against Archetype.
VAkiha
Her aerial mobility baits and punishes Archetype's moveset all day.


Of course, take my writing with a grain of salt. It's completely from watching vids and guessing. :toot: Feel free to tear it apart.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 12:16:25 PM by LivingShadow »

Offline Rokunaya

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2011, 12:17:25 PM »
I will say her 2C is way too good.
Like F koha's 5C and 2B from console?

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Offline Bill307

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2011, 07:41:19 PM »
I can post C- and H-Archetype's movesets if people want.  Maybe in a different topic...?

After 1 day of playing, I think that EX light pillar is amazing.  It has fast start-up:  you can react to and punish slow moves from anywhere on the screen.  It must have start-up invincibility, if not more.  It beats air-to-airs and anti-airs.  (Didn't test it against a projectile.)  It can be punished on block in some situations (e.g. if they're right below you) but it's relatively safe otherwise.  I didn't test the recovery of a TK'd EX pillar, so I don't know if TK'd EX pillar is completely safe or not, e.g. vs Ciel's full-screen super.  But it probably is.

I don't want to say much else about her since one can probably get better information about her strengths and weaknesses from watching Japanese archetype players.  And I have not watched any. :P


Edit:  her ground blasts (236A/B) are quite good, too.  They hit low and are air-unblockable.

Regular light pillars are bad/gimmicky if you're floating in the air (and not in flight mode).  I didn't try using TK'd light pillars, but they might prove useful.  When she TK's a pillar, she looks like she's still standing on the ground, so the recovery should be a lot better in that case.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 07:52:10 PM by Bill307 »

Offline Pincher

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2011, 07:51:20 PM »
I can post C- and H-Archetype's movesets if people want.  Maybe in a different topic...?
do it please!  ;D
You don't have enough science.

Offline Bill307

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2011, 08:08:37 PM »
I'm not around the CC board right now, but I can list the differences compared to F-Arch to the best of my memory:

- 5B has a downward arc.
- 2C hits lower to the ground and fewer times.
- j.2C is not chargeable.
- C-Arch can launch (into an air combo) with 5C 2C 3C, or just 2C 5C at max range.
- H-Arch can launch with 2C 6C.  Never tried 6AAA because I forgot about it. <_<

- Ground blasts arc away from you and knock the opponent away.  Not sure how to combo off of them, but EX light pillar might work.  (Didn't think to try it at the time.  :-[ )

- Instead of the rush attack, her 214A/B are air-unblockable whirlwind attacks.  A versions (not B) leave a small whirlwind behind, which is also air-unblockable when it... blows away.  H-Arch's blows away after a short period of time.  C-Arch's blows away the next time you do 214A, or after a long period of time.

- I don't remember what 214C does.

- j.214A/B is a cross-up whirlwind thing.

- j.214C makes a big tornado around her.  (By the power of Gaia...)  Has at least start-up invincibility.


Light pillars and 623x all seemed exactly the same.  623B has full start-up invincibility; 623A not so much.

I mostly used C-Arch and touched H-Arch only once.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 08:11:49 PM by Bill307 »

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2011, 09:01:33 PM »
Her 2c does look godlike, but to be honest, I don't see it as much worse than Kohaku's.

Sorry bro, I know you guys be stream monsterin' but I can't agree.  It's longer, faster startup, has almost no hurtbox (Green-extended hitbox), and has way less recovery.  My 2C lost an F-Archetype 2C on reaction.  It was painful to watch.  The advantage to Kohaku's 2C in neutral (all moons) is that it can catch late jump outs, keeps her low to the ground, and is untechable, but you have to be good to use it well.  F-Archetype can just press that all day erryday.  Also remember, this is a full moon character we're talking about (when you consider matchups).

Anyway, Bill - I haven't seen you around but I'm assuming you've played a lot of fighting games before.  You're right that ground blasts are amazing.  To elaborate, they're fast, quick, and great in pressure as a string ender, (similar to Wara's Tornado, F-Koha's 236A, etc) but it gives her way more advantage because they're much better in that they have way less recovery.  Though, I'd be willing to bet Ciel's special is long enough to punish ex pillar (haven't tested it either), it's still an excellent special resembling C-seifuku's in v1.05.  The regular pillars have similar uses for corner carry in combo, as they otg relaunch. 

As for the other specific information, I feel like I should look into myself sometime this week to confirm but I'm still exploring around other things about the game for the moment. 

(Also yeah, please get a mod to split the information about C&H moon.  Feel free to make a new topic.) 
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Offline Tare

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2011, 10:24:43 PM »
Here's my guesses for matchups:

Good matchups:
Miyako
Nanaya
Tohno
Kouma
Satsuki
Mostly characters with a limited range. Miyako and Kouma probably having the worst matchups.

Bad matchups:
Ciel
Mech
Aoko
Roa
Warc
Wara
Characters with good to decent air to air or ground to air projectiles. Wara and Roa would probably be the best against Archetype.
VAkiha
Her aerial mobility baits and punishes Archetype's moveset all day.


Of course, take my writing with a grain of salt. It's completely from watching vids and guessing. :toot: Feel free to tear it apart.

So I was reading this and although the game hasn't been in out in our hands yet, I think maybe you should re-consider the points that make F.Arch-Type really strong. First her geyser CH is extremely fast for a mid range attack. All her pressure antics rely on her being able to air cancel safely or be in range to geyser CH. So any other character that rely on mid-range footsie is gonna have a really hard time fighting her because the trade-off of her moves pays out way more, especially if you're trying to air to ground her like Warakia's J.C, you're gonna get demolished. She's gonna get wrecked by anything character that's in your face like Miyako, Arcueid. Her escape options and normals are not gonna be good enough when you get characters like this really close to you. Satsuki is just gonna air grab you all day. Aoko will be forced to not use orbs on a defensive way while playing footsies and her get in is pretty poor, so overall I think Arch-type will have the advantage.

tl;dr: In your face characters > Arch Type. Mid range character < Arch-Type.

Offline Greg

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2011, 06:20:39 AM »
Here's my guesses for matchups:

Good matchups:
Miyako
Nanaya
Tohno
Kouma
Satsuki
Mostly characters with a limited range. Miyako and Kouma probably having the worst matchups.

Bad matchups:
Ciel
Mech
Aoko
Roa
Warc
Wara
Characters with good to decent air to air or ground to air projectiles. Wara and Roa would probably be the best against Archetype.
VAkiha
Her aerial mobility baits and punishes Archetype's moveset all day.


Of course, take my writing with a grain of salt. It's completely from watching vids and guessing. :toot: Feel free to tear it apart.

So I was reading this and although the game hasn't been in out in our hands yet, I think maybe you should re-consider the points that make F.Arch-Type really strong. First her geyser CH is extremely fast for a mid range attack. All her pressure antics rely on her being able to air cancel safely or be in range to geyser CH. So any other character that rely on mid-range footsie is gonna have a really hard time fighting her because the trade-off of her moves pays out way more, especially if you're trying to air to ground her like Warakia's J.C, you're gonna get demolished. She's gonna get wrecked by anything character that's in your face like Miyako, Arcueid. Her escape options and normals are not gonna be good enough when you get characters like this really close to you. Satsuki is just gonna air grab you all day. Aoko will be forced to not use orbs on a defensive way while playing footsies and her get in is pretty poor, so overall I think Arch-type will have the advantage.

tl;dr: In your face characters > Arch Type. Mid range character < Arch-Type.

Good matchups:
People you can out space

Bad matchups:
People that out space you
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2011, 06:58:12 AM »
Here's my guesses for matchups:

Good matchups:
Miyako
Nanaya
Tohno
Kouma
Satsuki
Mostly characters with a limited range. Miyako and Kouma probably having the worst matchups.

Bad matchups:
Ciel
Mech
Aoko
Roa
Warc
Wara
Characters with good to decent air to air or ground to air projectiles. Wara and Roa would probably be the best against Archetype.
VAkiha
Her aerial mobility baits and punishes Archetype's moveset all day.


Of course, take my writing with a grain of salt. It's completely from watching vids and guessing. :toot: Feel free to tear it apart.

So I was reading this and although the game hasn't been in out in our hands yet, I think maybe you should re-consider the points that make F.Arch-Type really strong. First her geyser CH is extremely fast for a mid range attack. All her pressure antics rely on her being able to air cancel safely or be in range to geyser CH. So any other character that rely on mid-range footsie is gonna have a really hard time fighting her because the trade-off of her moves pays out way more, especially if you're trying to air to ground her like Warakia's J.C, you're gonna get demolished. She's gonna get wrecked by anything character that's in your face like Miyako, Arcueid. Her escape options and normals are not gonna be good enough when you get characters like this really close to you. Satsuki is just gonna air grab you all day. Aoko will be forced to not use orbs on a defensive way while playing footsies and her get in is pretty poor, so overall I think Arch-type will have the advantage.

tl;dr: In your face characters > Arch Type. Mid range character < Arch-Type.

Good matchups:
People you can out space

Bad matchups:
People that out space you
Pretty much.

Here's more on my thoughts on the characters I listed.

@Satsuki: While yes, she does have an anti-air grab she still has to get in range to use it. I do have to admit, she probably has the best matchup of the ones I listed as at a disadvantage.

@Nanaya and Tohno: This matchup is completely based on their movement ability. C-Nanaya is probably the best out of these because of the charged b teleport.

@Miyako: This matchup I based more on Miyako's normal range than on Archetype's zoning ability. It's a lot like the Ryougi matchup in that most of Archetype's normals keep Miyako out of range.

@Aoko: I was the least sure about this one. I was thinking maybe 22a/b/c would be good against Archetype, but on second thought, it's probably not enough.

@Wara: 22a/b/c tornadoes are probably his best tools in this one. I guess it's more based on if Wara can lock Archetype to the ground.

Quote from: Komidol
Sorry bro, I know you guys be stream monsterin' but I can't agree.  It's longer, faster startup, has almost no hurtbox (Green-extended hitbox), and has way less recovery.  My 2C lost an F-Archetype 2C on reaction.  It was painful to watch.  The advantage to Kohaku's 2C in neutral (all moons) is that it can catch late jump outs, keeps her low to the ground, and is untechable, but you have to be good to use it well.  F-Archetype can just press that all day erryday.  Also remember, this is a full moon character we're talking about (when you consider matchups).
I seem to remember Archetype's 2c having more pushback. Maybe my memory is off.

Offline Crescent Saber

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2011, 02:43:59 PM »
I'm probably not as experienced as most of you guys, but from watching the videos of F-Arch and the few of C-Arch, I'm gonna guess that her toughest matchups are gonna be against rushdown characters like Arcueid. While she has great zoning tools, she seems to have trouble with speedy characters that can get in her face.

Offline Mistwraith

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2011, 09:08:11 PM »
All I can say that FM Arch's 2C is way too godly. Ashe kept my Tohno Shiki from going in by just doing it and I was trying to be way too careful against him.

Her j5C hitbox is so huge that it is easy to crossup people with. I need to rethink strategies on how to fight her  :slowpoke:

Offline leaf

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2011, 12:49:09 PM »
I'm actually most curious as to how her puffballs/star things work right now, specifically as to why I don't see japanese players using them more. For the few times I've seen them get used, they seem like they should be a really good move. Main place I'm looking is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caks9HBD2Qk

Notable points are at 19:56 and 23:02. As we can see here, only two puffballs came out, and the player instantly jumped afterward. Also, 23:11 and 24:24, where a single puffball was used with what also appears to be a JC. Additionally considering that in Leo's vids, when he tried to use the 3 puffballs and run after them, he took much longer to move, I think it's a pretty safe bet that there's a JC window on this move.

A move like this... honestly, it feels like something from the touhou fighters. Coupled with all her other great projectiles, as well as flight, I really do get a touhou-esque vibe from this character. Anyway, it looks like it has relatively low startup for a projectile you can approach with, and it also seems like a good option for harassing your opponent from fullscreen, giving you coverfire while you go to the air.

I'd wager even the non-EX version could be good for meaty on wakeup. Depending on a couple of factors, such as how long it takes for the puffballs to become active and/or if you can fly-unfly to quickly execute a low to the ground aerial, you could use it as an enabler for some pretty beastly mixups, without much fear of retaliation.

Using puffballs mid-blockstring may or may not be an option. At 22:00 in the vid I linked, the player tries to use it from point-blank for pressure, which just got them hit, but if you give yourself enough space (such as from a max range 2c, as was done at 19:56), it might be safe against some chars, and lead directly into more pressure.

Finally, the EX version looks like it could be abused greatly from a midscreen knockdown. EX stars -> fly above their head for repeated ambiguous crossups.

---

Actually... after all that, I think the "most interested" bit was wrong. Make that "second most interested." What I'm most interested in finding out are the specifics of her fly. Can it be canceled into from moves that can be special canceled? Moves that can be jump canceled? Can it be canceled into at all? Then there's the matter of what the minimum time you have to spend in flight is, and if it has cooldown when you cancel out of it. Lotta unknowns.

Man, I've been looking forward to a new PC release of MB for a long time, but this character makes the wait for MBAACC even harder. =p
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2011, 02:05:44 PM »
I'm actually most curious as to how her puffballs/star things work right now, specifically as to why I don't see japanese players using them more. For the few times I've seen them get used, they seem like they should be a really good move. Main place I'm looking is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caks9HBD2Qk

I'd guess that Ashie prefers to use her faster, halfscreen specials and normals to fish for hits. The projectiles, by comparison, are much slower, both in start-up and travel time, or do not cover the right space. The start-up on them makes it seem like it could be easily punishable at neutral, and too slow at max range to do much for you. You prolly just get more reward for using other things.
Or she's so new that they have yet to realize a better use for them.

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Offline leaf

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2011, 04:43:46 PM »
It's true that it doesn't have the speed of the 236 or the ridiculous vertical reach of the j236, but the delayed fire is actually what makes it a good move, imo. In the matches I watched today, nine times out of ten, when an archetype player was at range in a neutral situation, they either fished for a CH 236 or went airborne and started zoning with j236. Even when playing against foes that were scared to set up their own projectiles or approach, that were just flat out blocking the 236, they still went for one of these options, even though they had plenty of time to set up a 22 and establish an offense. If you need to hit a foe immediately, you have 236 to fall back on. But you don't always need to hit a foe immediately, especially if they're busy expecting to need to block something.

As I see it, as long as you pick a time when your foe isn't likely to (or outright can't) use a fast ranged option to hit you out of it, the worst case scenario when using 22 is that your opponent jumps over it. This isn't that bad of a situation at all, since it's very likely that you can either beat them air to air, or land first and anti-air them. So the "coverage" problem shouldn't be an issue, either. As long as it forces them to do something, it's done its job.

Granted, this is all theory fighter using imperfect information, but it's just that I've never seen a projectile have properties like this and not be good.

Quote
Or she's so new that they have yet to realize a better use for them.
This may just be it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 04:47:30 PM by leaf »
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2011, 06:21:48 AM »
Apparently, F-Archetype has a teleport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_QFNxa7s-Q#t=22m20s

Offline caiooa

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2011, 11:11:33 AM »
isn't it just a rush elbow followup? (like C arc can use A to teleport, B to a 4B and C for the act cadenza follow up)
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Offline LivingShadow

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2011, 11:23:27 AM »
That's probably what it is, but it still counts as a teleport.

Offline Crescent Saber

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2011, 07:12:42 AM »
Interesting. She has so many stylish moves lol.

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2011, 08:24:37 PM »
Hey F-Hime can activate BH then do BHAD off that cinematic air super and have it COMBO.  :psyduck: :psyduck: Combo into circuit break? gravy

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16300009
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Offline FireBearHero

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2011, 06:23:36 PM »
"hey let's make a really ridiculous character that nobody will want to play due to the threat of people picking C-Sion and going crazy with 214C"

wat

Offline Lord Knight

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2011, 03:59:46 PM »
OK, so basic combo breakdown -

F-Hime has 2 main combo routes, based on distance - one where you're close enough for 5c > 6c (correct me if it's not 6c btw) to connect, and one where you are too far for that to work. So:

xx > 5c  > 6c > 236a > j[C] > Air pillar > 22d > j[C] > air pillar > airdash > jC > dj jC > kick super/pillar super/airthrow

From farther, you have to use 2c > 236b to combo:

xx > 2c > 236b > j[C] > airdash > delay jC > 2C > 5A > 2C > 22D for okizeme

Of course the above is possible off raw 236b, as well as a far 2b.

Any time you are in max you can end with kick super > land heat > blood heat arc drive. You've got enough time to charge to ~70 percent.

After throw you can combo into arc drive or blood heat arc drive, as well as OTG.

For combo correction, anytime you airdash the wrong way after j[C] (I've seen it happen) you can just pillar super to tack on some damage.

Corner combo is xx > 236a/b > j[C] > airdash late jC > 2c > 5a > 2c > 2a  >2c > shoulder rush > 5a > jBC > dj jBC > 22D airthrow/kick super/pillar super. Alternatively you can just end at 2c and do 22d into oki.
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Offline Mistwraith

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2011, 07:58:05 PM »
Something to correct about your 2nd combo and your corner combo. Lord Knight.

xx > 2c > 236b > j[C] > airdash > delay jC > 2C > 5A > 2C > 22D for okizeme

After j[C], it is not possible airdash for follow up. You must do a jump cancel first then airdash towards your opponent.

I know it doesn't look like it but I tried doing airdash after j[C] and it doesn't work at all. Took me a while to realize I need to do a jump cancel first, which makes therefore you need to be fast.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 08:00:01 PM by Mistwraith »

Offline Rokunaya

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2011, 08:01:00 PM »
F can't airdash cancel normals, only C/H can so that's why
clmelty: great roku! lol / I like roku lol
clmelty: I want to make CL like roku team
clmelty: Roku is best popular player in the meltyworld

Offline Lord Knight

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Re: F-Archetype 姫様!やりたい!
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2011, 08:23:55 PM »
Oh, I knew that, but I still just write it as airdash lol, I guess when someone makes an OFFICIAL post someone should make a note of that
Keep climbin', gotta get to the top