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Author Topic: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?  (Read 17601 times)

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Offline Inso

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2011, 11:52:40 AM »


So, per the manual, if I want to make P = Circle, should I hold ESC and press B, then P? (Assuming I'm in standard setup)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 12:03:44 PM by Inso »
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Offline Relunx

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2011, 06:07:42 AM »
This is the product, right? http://www.emumaniacos.com.br/mercadolivre/max2-2.jpg
Yes. That is the product.

So, per the manual, if I want to make P = Circle, should I hold ESC and press B, then P? (Assuming I'm in standard setup)
Yes.

Relunx

Offline LivingShadow

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2011, 05:53:14 AM »
My Keystick is almost physically done. Let's hope I did the wiring right and it works.

I'll be bringing it to GVN singles working or not.

Offline Crusayer

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2013, 09:44:15 PM »
Two year old bump, but here comes another aspiring keystick player.

I've been playing keyboard for nearly 5 years now (combination of soku and melty).  I also play PS3 pad for P4A and BB.  However, my technical proficiency is far better with a keyboard than pad and I don't really want to learn stick (yes, I've seen that transitioning to stick thread).  That and a combination with that I'm going to EVO this year and I want to be able to focus on bigger things than basic inputs on stick.

Is there any new information regarding this kind of build now (PS3 / PS2 preferred but I can always get another X360 converter)?  Anyone I can contact?

Offline [svx]

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2013, 06:36:30 PM »
Tech talk on srk. You can find modders who can do it for $ or, potentially, guides to do it yourself.
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Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2013, 02:41:30 PM »
ADANA MORT!

So I want to make a professional looking controller for playing on all platforms with mechanical keyboard keys so I wont ever worry about anything anymore about platforms and compability and still play in a decent controller. Halp? Mad Sci?

Quote from: Mad Sci
I basically removed everything in the keyboard, and then mounted micro-switches underneath the keys I needed.

Soldering and wiring is pretty straight forward, you just need a lot of wire.

Let me see if I understand, step by step, no, really, I'm dumb when it comes to this kind of stuff...

1st step = get a keyboard; 2nd step = remove all you're not using; 3rd step = get a PCB board; 4th step = microswitch under the keys? how? it affects the pressing sensation?; 5th step = connect the microswitch to the PCB board? 6th step = ??, 7th step = profit? More info/instructions on this would be really appreciated. I don't even know how microswitching works, but that much I can find out, but the rest I even talked to people who make arcades here, they don't know how to do it.

You could make it for sale man via order man =x, people would order. That kind of technology is interesting even for fps players and other gamers who like keyboard better and no one I know does it so far. Max shooter imho has delay input and is very complicated to set AND it has limited compatibility, only PS3, only XBOX, etc...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 02:52:36 PM by Cristu »
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2013, 02:55:51 PM »
Just look up a hitbox. Same basic concept.

Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2013, 03:13:23 PM »
hitbox has some critical flaws: buttons, buttons are way too sensitive, buttons are way too far, diretionals are on the left, buttons are way too big, buttons are ugly, hitboxes have a (lame) pre-determined config (not customizable via order), hitboxes are bad looking (to me), jump on big toe, wtf?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 03:21:07 PM by Cristu »
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Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2013, 07:12:22 PM »
Wouldn't the biggest issue be finding a keyboard with enough height clearance to even stick a custom PCB in? The rest seems simple enough, especially if mechanical keys are used (because microswitches are super EZ modo and rubber contacts aren't).
I don't know, is that it? How did Mad Sci got past it?
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Offline Sashi

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2013, 12:14:20 AM »
I dunno, it didn't look especially bulky to me. Send a Tweet at him (@MadscientistCC) or something.
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2013, 01:25:43 AM »
hitbox has some critical flaws: buttons, buttons are way too sensitive, buttons are way too far, diretionals are on the left, buttons are way too big, buttons are ugly, hitboxes have a (lame) pre-determined config (not customizable via order), hitboxes are bad looking (to me), jump on big toe, wtf?

I just meant copy the concept. I wasn't saying to actually order a hitbox -- you could probably make one a lot cheaper -- but seriously, you could probably buy some smaller, less sensitive buttons (24mm seimitsu?), shove them all into whatever you have laying around for a case, wire 'em to a PCB, and call it a day.

Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2013, 05:04:21 PM »
Quote from: Dusk Thanatos
I just meant copy the concept. I wasn't saying to actually order a hitbox -- you could probably make one a lot cheaper -- but seriously, you could probably buy some smaller, less sensitive buttons (24mm seimitsu?), shove them all into whatever you have laying around for a case, wire 'em to a PCB, and call it a day.
I initially though of that too, but buttons are way too strange for me, even the smaller possible buttons (Inso uses them) are too big and stay too far. And they are just awkward to press on. Sanwa is total shit (to me), Seimitsu is a little better, but still can't compare to a key of a mechanical keyboard or even a normal keyboard, which I'm so much more used since I use PC all the time, so I think it's worth trying a little more and spending the double.

Quote from: Butterfree
I think what he did was clear the numpad area, maybe sand it down a bit, and place the PS1 PCB there. Then I think he either custom-made or ordered a plexi/acrylic cover for the numpad area to make sure the PCB stayed in place and no dust gets in or w/e.

Depending on what PCB you use, you'd have to adjust slightly...by a few mm at most but still...like the PS1 PCB is a lot slimmer, especially if you solder directly onto the main board and not the rubber contact daughterboard, but the PS360 PCB is a bit thicker, especially since it has screw terminals and Type-B USB and RJ-45 ports.

There's actually another problem I think you *MIGHT* have:

Different PCBs interpret opposite inputs in different ways. I'm not sure if you have to buy a SOCD Cleaner and install that alongside with your PCB of choice or not. Keyboard players sometimes talk about using tricks with conflicting inputs (normally not possible on stick like 8+2 and 4+6) to execute things easier, but if your PCB doesn't interpret it the way you're used to (pulling an example out of my ass, but say you press 4+6 and usually you expect 4+6 directionals to equal 6 only, but PCB A interprets 4+6 as 5) then you may have problems. I dunno.

EDIT: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/181524/ps360-modded-into-a-mechanical-keyboard-problems-with-keyboard-specific-movement
Thanks for the advice and the link, I'll have all that in mind from now on. I wonder what Mad Sci did to get over it too, I'll ask him on twitter about it. I'm used with 4+6 = 4, so I should not buy a SOCD Cleaner. Just one ore thing, the PCB ps360+ is not compatible with new gen, is it? Maybe I should wait a little more to buy the PCB and do the rest later since I'll have to adapt the box to the size of the board and etc.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 05:21:37 PM by Cristu »
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Offline Tigre

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2013, 01:46:19 PM »
Most of the pcbs you buy from within the community are going to support SOCD by default (Newer Toodles firmwares, the PS360+, I'm pretty sure the Cerberus too, I never tested it).

I've always sorta wanted to wire up a keyboard for fgs, but I have no use for it means I play on stick :nyoro:

With a bit of time and a dremel you can make pcbs pretty tiny.
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Offline Sashi

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2013, 03:15:37 PM »
Dremels are pretty cool.
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Offline Madscientist

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2013, 03:45:05 PM »
So I took some pics of the inside of my keyboard, hope it helps:
http://imgur.com/CnsrQsd,ceS8rTP,LGndfAD,Zdq51UI#0
http://imgur.com/CnsrQsd,ceS8rTP,LGndfAD,Zdq51UI#1
http://imgur.com/CnsrQsd,ceS8rTP,LGndfAD,Zdq51UI#2
http://imgur.com/CnsrQsd,ceS8rTP,LGndfAD,Zdq51UI#3

Like Butterfree said, I cut out the numpad area for the PCB. I didn't even use plexi, it's just a piece of plastic.
For simultaneous left+right (or up+down), the PS2 pad PCB I used registers as neutral.

Figuring out how to mount the tiny switches was the trickiest part. After a couple years of use,
I ended up just hot-gluing them, because a few of the solder points would break after months of use.

Since I removed all the rubber pads, the keyboard keys directly hit the micro-switches, with some padding.
I got used to the feeling of it, but anyone else might want to keep the rubber pads, or get different switches.

This is the micro-switch I used: http://is.gd/S3Xuza, it seems to be pretty durable despite the size.

Also all the wires are hidden underneath the plastic sheet with holes that came with the keyboard.

So I'd rather not try selling another keyboard like this, because mine is pretty much a hack job.
It took me two revisions and a few days combined to get right. And also I needed to repair a few of the solder points several times.

Sorry for the wall text, I kind of just brain-dumped.
Hopefully this helps people who want to do something similar, and I can always give advice.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 03:49:31 PM by Madscientist »

Offline Tigre

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2013, 04:30:02 PM »
Dealing with a mechanical keyboard seems like a lot less work. Lol

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Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2013, 10:07:37 PM »
Your wall of text is very apreciated! Thank you Mad, I'll see what I can do here now!
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Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2013, 09:17:51 AM »
Right now I'm choosing what keyboard to use. It will be a mechanical one, I still didnt decide if I'll get standard Stellseries 6Gv2 or a fancy luminous Ducky Shine Zero. The question is, the keyboard will stop working as a keyboard, right? All the luminous stuff and inputs for headphone and etc wont be of any use, right? If yes I'll probably go with the Steelseries since it's cheaper. However if the lights and all the other stuff work I'll with the ducky shine. I think red might be the best switch color, but brown seems to be good too.



The steelseries: http://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-6Gv2-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard/dp/B0038X3ZVM/ref=sr_1_19?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1379005354&sr=1-19&keywords=mechanical+keyboard

The ducky shine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducky-DK2108S-Shine-Zero-Mechanical-keyboard-Cherry-MX-Red-switch-W-Blue-LED-/300938625770?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item46115702ea
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 09:22:18 AM by Cristu »
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Offline Sashi

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2013, 11:26:57 AM »
Blacks you have to really press it hard, though. Can't just lightly tap it.
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Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2013, 12:13:12 PM »
Sanwas and the like don't have a tactile response that corresponds to when they actually engage, though. I know my button triggers long before it's completely depressed, which I consider a good thing, since it means the button triggers faster relative to when I make the motion.

I also imagine that the tactile response means that you'd feel force (pushback) trying to press the key down, as opposed to a stick button, which just goes down smoothly as you apply force. I know the tactile keyboard I'm using right now has a threshold I have to cross, then the button engages and goes down. Basically, the tactile buttons will have two states, depressed and not depressed, whereas the linear buttons will just press down with no resistance and trigger. I imagine the linear button press would feel like it responds more quickly, since there's no need to cross a certain threshold of force to get the key to depress.

...I hope that made sense.

EDIT: Also, I think what you feel as the response of your stick buttons is actually the "bottom out" force point, when they won't engage anymore, which doesn't correspond to when your button press actually registers.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 12:19:27 PM by Dusk Thanatos »

Offline Funky-kun

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2013, 01:58:44 PM »
If you have not used mechanical keyboard switches before, it will take time getting used to. The biggest advantage vs. rubber dome is they activate at an exact point, and are thus more reliable.

Compared to stick buttons, they have a lot more travel, but actually activate at about the same depth a stick button does. However, you have more free space to press after that, which usually you go through.

I have tried Blues, and would not recommend them. The problem is (apart from being really loud) that the tactile point is not the same in both directions of the key press. That is, you have to pull the key higher up than the point at which it activated to get it to activate again. Not ideal when you want really fast inputs. Maybe looking at this will make more sense: http://cdn.overclock.net/8/88/900x900px-LL-8846736e_785448034edc7cebb9ea660c5f11e288.jpeg

I game on Browns. They felt good coming from a flat rubber dome keyboard. The reset point is the same as the activation point, in contrast to blues ( http://peterhallam.com.au/wp-content/uploads/cherry-mx-brown-force-diagram.jpg ). While playing Melty, the tactile point is not really felt, as you're bottoming the key out with force anyway. Feels good for typing though. A lot of RTS progamers use them.

I haven't tried Reds and Blacks, but would expect that Reds would be a good fit for fighting games, as they're lighter to press. They activate at the same depth as Browns, so there wouldn't be a lot of difference when mashing. :D  If you like the pressure though, maybe Blacks are for you. I haven't tried them, I expect using them for a while to become exhausting on the fingers.

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Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2013, 11:43:33 PM »
So I decided to go with reds! A friend of mine brought a mechanical keyboard to Heaven or Hell 2013 and let me test it. It felt absolutely amazing, however I didn't know until today what color was that. He told me today it was red. Because of that I can assure reds are the best for fighting games. Let me explain why if anyone's interested:

It's not hard to press, yes, but it's not critically sensible: you need to push 2 milimeters to activate while in sanwa 0.5 milimeters would have activated it already I guess (I don't know actually), but I tested it to play Melty in that day and everything went just perfect. The feeling of using it is almost addicting and it's not too sensitive or too hard. In fighting games the more sensitive the better I guess unless it will activate when you don't want like Sanwa do to me, but that don't happen with reds, so it's perfect. Tactile is good too, but I guess you may lose a little bit o speed using them, so reds are the best.

I decided to go with the steelseries 6Gv2 since it's heavier, more resistant and more beautiful to me (since lights wont work) but I'm still clearing some doubts. It seems steelseries keycaps gets worn too fast, I don't know, but I'll have a lot of spare keycaps to use so it really doesnt matter much. The funny thing is that I'll end up ordering the same keyboard, same model and same color my friend did.
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Offline [svx]

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2013, 11:08:23 PM »
I finally finished what I had been dreaming about for quite a while...
http://imageshack.us/a/img14/218/jm4x.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img6/9073/p5bs.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img545/4553/3tey.jpg
I totally love 24mm seimitsus, they're way better than cheap kbs I've been playing. Good luck with your kb mod though. Hopefully, I'll also get a decent mechanical kb someday :3
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Offline Cristu

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2014, 04:03:52 PM »
I finally finished what I had been dreaming about for quite a while...
http://imageshack.us/a/img14/218/jm4x.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img6/9073/p5bs.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img545/4553/3tey.jpg
I totally love 24mm seimitsus, they're way better than cheap kbs I've been playing. Good luck with your kb mod though. Hopefully, I'll also get a decent mechanical kb someday :3
Good stuff man, how are you doing with it?

Today I got my kb, now all that's left is the pcb and modding, one step at a time! btw iPhone camera sucks! Here's a review some guy made for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZXerYm8ETU

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Offline [svx]

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Re: Keyboard on PS2, Mad Scientist style?
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2014, 02:54:23 AM »
Good stuff man, how are you doing with it?
Doing well, so well I built another one with the same layout lol
http://s10.postimg.org/yjbqyfjuf/black_limba_kbox.jpg
The wide wooden case is amazing for lap play.

I'm also a bit curious about gamer finger buttons that use cherry micro switches since you can use the blue and brown switches with the tactile feel.
They currently don't have clear 24mm buttons and are quite expensive though, so I'll probably stick with seimitsus for a while.
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