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Author Topic: MB Input Lag on TVs  (Read 3085 times)

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Offline Cristu

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MB Input Lag on TVs
« on: May 06, 2014, 02:47:37 PM »
So, what's the data we have about MB running on TVs? As far as I've tested, it always lag. Tried HDMI and VGA already to connect the CPU to the TV. However I never had a good TV monitor. I had the thread idea because I saw KFL posting about an Asus monitor. Have you guys tested PC on it? How's the lag? Anybody else have more to say about this? We should use TV monitors if they don't lag...
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MB Input Lag on TVs
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 12:31:29 PM »
The key spec to look for on a monitor that affects input delay is called 'response time'.

Unfortunately, the last time I checked, the method that manufacturers use to measure response time is not standardized. So comparing a monitor with 6ms response time to one with 8ms is kinda meaningless unless they are from the same manufacturer. Sometimes it varies within the manufacturer as well. Basically, whatever way they get the lowest number is the one they use to market with.

Regardless, 2-4ms response time is pretty damn good on every monitor, manufactured by whoever, that I've tried.

For reference: 1 second is 1000ms, Melty runs at 60 frames per second, that's .06 frames per millisecond. 2-4ms response time is about .12 - .24 frames of delay. Again, this really depends on how the manufacturer decided to measure it though.

And to answer the original question, yes that ASUS monitor is very good for Melty. It's pretty much as close to 'lagless' as you will get.

Offline Cristu

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Re: MB Input Lag on TVs
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 04:56:15 PM »
Nice!! We have CRTs all around Brazil, but 17 inches for 2 people is pretty sad if you ask me. I usually refuse to play on laptops for that reason too. Seems like good TV monitors are the way to go.

This might be helpful: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/
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Offline Dipstick

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Re: MB Input Lag on TVs
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 05:27:35 PM »
Display lag is way more complicated than just response time. A slow response time on a monitor is bad, but a monitor with a very low display time can still lag like crazy. The display may be scaling and processing the image, postprocessing effects in software (very common nowadays with current-era 3D engines) can add input lag -- basically every step between when you push the button and the image is actually rendered on a display can add latency.

The monitor Evo uses was chosen not because it lags the least (although it is damn fast, even now -- listed at 10ms on displaylag.com), but also is was cheap (especially for a 1080p monitor in 2009!), easy to procure and a known quantity. The issue with using CRT TV displays for the PC versions of MB is that you have to convert the signal from a DVI/VGA signal to something the TV will connect, or use the TV out port on a video card... and that can cause lag in and of itself.

Also keep in mind that the lowest response times are not arcade perfect. If you tighten up everything to be as fast as possible on a PC setup, you'll likely have something that has less lag than the arcade. The displays used on the Vewlix cabinets have more lag than they should, honestly.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MB Input Lag on TVs
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 03:43:41 AM »
Display lag is way more complicated than just response time. A slow response time on a monitor is bad, but a monitor with a very low display time can still lag like crazy. The display may be scaling and processing the image...

Yeah wasn't trying to go down that rabit hole. From my experience, these problems are more for TVs, and less for monitors meant for computers.

Offline Cristu

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Re: MB Input Lag on TVs
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 06:01:41 AM »
I'm a little confused. So the total lag = input lag + response time?

Also, what should be used for MB in such TV monitors, HDMI or VGA? I have a big LG on my room, it lags like hell on VGA, but lags even more on HDMI. However, I've heard that is a problem of the big LGs.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MB Input Lag on TVs
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 07:40:51 PM »
I'm a little confused. So the total lag = input lag + response time?

No one here has suggested a formula for calculating input delay. All that's been said is that the more stuff a monitor does to an image before its displayed, the more time between when you hit a button, to when it happens on screen.

Also, what should be used for MB in such TV monitors, HDMI or VGA? I have a big LG on my room, it lags like hell on VGA, but lags even more on HDMI. However, I've heard that is a problem of the big LGs.

There is no correct answer for this. From my experience, monitors that do well playing melty work well with whatever input you want to use. There may be cases where one works better than the others, but on monitors that already work well with melty, the differences are usually too small to notice. I have used VGA, HDMI, DVI, RCA, and RGB connections on a single monitor for running melty, and had them all work about the same. I've even converted between these and had it work about the same.


My general opinion:
Don't play melty on something that is sold as a TV. Play melty on something that is sold as a computer monitor. This seems like a good starting point. While I have seen some TVs that do well with melty, most all I've tried had huge input delay. Most computer monitors I've tried have pretty much none, or small input delay. What I do if I'm not sure about a monitor, when I can't find reviews, or don't feel like doing research, is I go to a store with my laptop and stick, and ask to hook up to monitors that are on display. When I find one that feels right, I buy it. Sometimes I take a buddy with me to see what he thinks too.

Offline Dusk Thanatos

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Re: MB Input Lag on TVs
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 08:28:09 PM »
I really recommend just grabbing an old CRT computer monitor off someone and using it. I made a point of hauling one to and from friend's houses, just because I hate input delay that much. >_>