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Author Topic: MBAA : Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread  (Read 34719 times)

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Offline COD3player

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MBAA : Full Moon Ciel Discussion Thread
« on: March 20, 2009, 02:23:22 AM »
F-Ciel

I didn't spend as much time with F-Ciel as I did with C-Ciel but FM in general really changes things a lot. Namely the chaining system. Some moves simply cannot be chained together even if they aren't considered reverse beats otherwise. For example, 2B5B and 2C5C are NOT possible even though the second move of both strings are neither attacks of different button strength nor command normals. You also can't seem to air dash cancel your air normals. eg. j.C > air dash > air throw does NOT work.

Normals:
5A - A downward punch. Probably has about the same hitbox as C-Ciel's 5A.

5B - Looks just like C-Ciel's 5B except it doesn't trip crouchers.

5C - A backfist. Has more range than C-Ciel's 5C.

5[C] - Charged version of the move above and she's holding a knife this time. It seems to charge up pretty fast and it launches on hit and you can go straight into an air combo. I was unable to tell if hits overhead or not.

2A - Crouching elbow attack. Has really shitty range and I couldn't tell if it hit low or not.

2B - Crouching horizontal slash. Has good reach and moves her forward a little.

2C - Same has MBAC.

j.A - Same as MBAC.

j.B - A downward punch. Has a pretty good vertical hitbox below her arm.

j.C - Looks just like the second part of C-Ciel's 2BB.

Specials:
236A/B: Looks just like Yamazaki's snake arm attacks. 236A trips the opponent while 236B launches them up.

j.236A/B: j.236A is the same as C-Ciel's. j.236B will knock down opponents and put them in OTG state.

214A/B/C - A looks just like the second hit of C-Ciel's 5CC and it has the same effect. ie. it creates a hard impact that launches the opponent up slightly. 214B throws 3 knives upward at a 45 degree angle. 214C throws 3 knives downward at a 45 degree angle and can be chained from 214B.

j.214A/B - Same as MBAC Ciel's. This means j.214A stalls her in midair and allows her to follow up with any air special while she's falling.

623A/B - Same as C-Ciel's but can't be done in the air.

22A/B - Same as C-Ciel's.

63214A/B - Command dash. Looks just like her normal dash except she's followed by a trail of shadows. All versions have clash frames and if the opponent is on the ground after a certain time, they get thrown. A version is just her normal throw, B version is her air throw that causes wallslam though I couldn't follow it up with anything.

Command Normals:
3B - Same as C-Ciel's.

3C - Looks like the 2nd hit of C-Ciel's 2CC except it goes higher and you can chain into it. On hit it works just like the second hit of her 2BB and you can air combo after it. Can be special cancelled.

3[C] - Same as 3C?

4C - Same as C-Ciel's.

j.2C - Looks just like MBAC except it's not special/super cancellable anymore(?)

j.2[C] - Charged version of the above move. Properties unknown.

Supers:
236C - multi-hit 236 attack. Starts with 236B and if it connects will hit the opponent repeatedly and slam them into the wall.

j.214C - Throws a black key downward and once it hits the ground a wave of shadows comes up for multiple hits. Gives her complete control over the current match flow if it lands on block and hits 2 times. Airunblockable. If they are hit with the knife in the air they get ground slammed and the wave will freeze them long enough for you to dash in for a 236A loop.

22C - Same as C-Ciel's.

63214C - Super throw from command dash. 100% circuit is consumed immediately and when Ciel reaches the opponent the super flash occurs and she slams them into the ground with her air throw after flipping multiple times. Will also catch opponents in OTG state. Untechable.

Combos:
It was really hard to come up with some good combos since the chaining system in Fullmoon is so different. Here's what I managed to come up with for the few playthroughs I used Fullmoon.

Ancient oldschool BnB: 2ABC > 4C > j.BC > dj.BC > air throw

Tricky BnB: 2ABC > 4C > 236A > 5BC > j.BC > dj.BC > air throw (Does 4K+ damage)

Meter BnB: 2AAB5C > 214A > 2C > 236C
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 06:00:54 PM by Azure Macabre »
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Offline scottind

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 02:45:13 AM »
F-ciel air 236B will hit knocked down opponents like an OTG.

63214C will grab opponents OTG. for example 2c > 214c > 63214C

also missed air623a/b

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 03:28:13 AM »
Everything below concerns ver.A and nothing prior to that. Take note that not all of this is 100% accurate as there may be some things that I am unaware of and I'm sure there are plenty. If a move is exactly the same as it is in MBAC from my observations, it will be listed as such.

C-Ciel:

Normals:
5A - Mid-hitting punch to the opponent's mid-section. She loses her old 6AAA combo (has it in Half-moon with different properties). Since it hits mid, it hits crouchers reliably. The old 5A4C anti-jump string still works and it works perfectly after air CHs.

5B - Same as MBAC.

5C - Same as MBAC but it's now whiff cancellable. Pressing 5C again will trigger the sword throw which is still special-cancellable but not shield-cancellable.

5[C] - Same as 5C but with higher damage and does a noticeable chunk of damage to the opponent's guard meter.

2A - Same as MBAC.

2B - Has less range and possibly a little more startup. Not 100% sure if clash frames are still present. 2B again will trigger the same followup attack with the same poperties.

2C - Same as MBAC. 2CC is also the same.

j.A - Same as MBAC.

j.B - Same as MBAC.

J.C - Same as MBAC.

Command Normals:
3B - New move. It's the 2-hit handstand kick. Works very much like the old 2B did in combos and blockstrings. It moves further than 2B. Can be canceled into pretty much anything.

4B - Same as MBAC.
    --> 236B. No longer causes wallslam but rather an untechable knockdown. Will actually connect against airborne opponents if the initial 4B connects.

[4B] - Now special/super cancellable.

4C - Same as MBAC except the clash frames appear to be gone(?).

j.2C - Same as MBAC? j.2[C] is new but I'm unsure of the properties.

Specials:

214A/B and all variations: Still the same as MBAC.

214[A]: New. Looks just like 214A except its charge and upon impact, the opponent freezes for a little bit and gets hit by an explosion that launches them upward. NO THE INFINITE DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE.

j.214A/B: j.214A is different and will allow Ciel to retain her air momentum when she performs the move. As such, there is a minimum height requirement. If you do the move too low to the ground, it won't come out at all. j.214B and its followups are still the same.

236A/B: 236A seems to have more startup than before and all the followups seem intact. 236B is more or less the same with all its followups as well.

j.236A/B: j.236A now seems to go downward at a 30 degree angle instead of 45.

623A/B: 623A only hits once and barely travels anywhere now. 623B is still the same. These moves can also be done in the air.

22A/B: Still the same. Although if you do j.22B, you can still air dash if you haven't used it already.

Supers:
214C - Same as MBAC. Though probably much safer on block due to the absence of bara cancels(?). j.214C is still the same.

236C - Still launches grounded opponents but there's enough recovery to make it impossible to follow up with a relaunch combo. The super is UNTECHABLE unless it hits the opponent in OTG state. Still a great tech punisher.

j.236C - Same as MBAC.

623C - Can no longer charge, travels pretty far, comes out DAMN fast, and passes through the opponent on block or hit. Looks kinda safe. Opponent gets launched on hit. j.623C induces wallslam.

22C - Air version is still the same. Not sure if the ground version retains its super cancel properties.

Both Arc Drives are the same, didn't test the last arc.

Combos:
Due to the new chaining rules regarding reverse beats (RBs) and some of the changes of her moves, new combos are possible/recommended. I'll list the ones that I used most often but there are some other variations that still work too. Willl probably list a flowchart at some point.

Basic no RB BnB: 2AA > 2B > 3B > 2C > 5C > 4C > j.C > dj.B-C > j.22B > air throw (It is now possible to link air throw after j.22B)
BnB vs crouchers: 2AA > 2B > 3B > 5CC > 2C > 5C > 4C > j.C > dj.B-C > j.22B > air throw
Shield cancel combo replacement: 2AA > 2B > 3B > 5CC > 214[A] > dash > j.C-B > dj.BC > air throw
EX BnB (must be close to the corner): 2AA > 2B > 3B/4C > 5C > 6239C > j.C-A-B > dj.B-C > air throw
Combo off overhead: [4B] > 623A > 236C. REALLY friggin' hard. There's probably better options but I didn't go into this one too much.

Note: It is possible to end combos with 4B>236B for a guranteed knockdown but I forgot most of the setups for it. <.<

As you can see, like most other characters, C-Ciel retains a lot of her moves from MBAC. She seems weaker overall by comparison but still pretty solid. The fact that 5C and 5[C] are now whiff cancellable means that you can come up with some new blockstrings that can eat away at the opponent's guard meter. As of this post I'm still unsure what the input is for the special where she throws multiple knives at once.

F-Ciel:

I didn't spend as much time with F-Ciel as I did with C-Ciel but FM in general really changes things a lot. Namely the chaining system. Some moves simply cannot be chained together even if they aren't considered reverse beats otherwise. For example, 2B5B and 2C5C are NOT possible even though the second move of both strings are neither attacks of different button strength nor command normals. You also can't seem to air dash cancel your air normals. eg. j.C > air dash > air throw does NOT work.

Normals:
5A - A downward punch. Probably has about the same hitbox as C-Ciel's 5A.

5B - Looks just like C-Ciel's 5B except it doesn't trip crouchers.

5C - A backfist. Has more range than C-Ciel's 5C.

5[C] - Charged version of the move above and she's holding a knife this time. It seems to charge up pretty fast and it launches on hit and you can go straight into an air combo. I was unable to tell if hits overhead or not.

2A - Crouching elbow attack. Has really shitty range and I couldn't tell if it hit low or not.

2B - Crouching horizontal slash. Has good reach and moves her forward a little.

2C - Same has MBAC.

j.A - Same as MBAC.

j.B - A downward punch. Has a pretty good vertical hitbox below her arm.

j.C - Looks just like the second part of C-Ciel's 2BB.

Specials:
236A/B: Looks just like Yamazaki's snake arm attacks. 236A trips the opponent while 236B launches them up.

214A/B/C - A looks just like the second hit of C-Ciel's 5CC and it has the same effect. ie. it creates a hard impact that launches the opponent up slightly. 214B throws 3 knives upward at a 45 degree angle. 214C throws 3 knives downward at a 45 degree angle and can be chained from 214B.

j.214A/B - Same as MBAC Ciel's. This means j.214A stalls her in midair and allows her to follow up with any air special while she's falling.

623A/B - Same as C-Ciel's but can't be done in the air.

22A/B - Same as C-Ciel's.

63214A/B - Command dash. Looks just like her normal dash except she's followed by a trail of shadows. All versions have clash frames and if the opponent is on the ground after a certain time, they get thrown. A version is just her normal throw, B version is her air throw that causes wallslam though I couldn't follow it up with anything.

Command Normals:
3B - Same as C-Ciel's.

3C - Looks like the 2nd hit of C-Ciel's 2CC except it goes higher and you can chain into it. On hit it works just like the second hit of her 2BB and you can air combo after it. However, the properties on block are herrendous. From the many times I've tried, you can't do ANYTHING if it gets blocked.

Supers:
236C - mult-hit 236 attack. Starts with 236B and if it connects will hit the opponent repeatedly and slam them into the wall.

j.214C - Throws a black key downward and once it hits the ground a wave of shadows comes up for multiple hits. If the opponent gets hit by the black key, they are frozen for a little bit but it doesn't seem long enough to hit them. Further testing is required.

22C - Same as C-Ciel's.

63214C - Super throw from command dash. 100% circuit is consumed immediately and when Ciel reaches the opponent the super flash occurs and she slams them into the ground with her air throw after flipping multiple times. Untechable.

Combos:
It was really hard to come up with some good combos since the chaining system in Fullmoon is so different. Here's what I managed to come up with for the few playthroughs I used Fullmoon.

Ancient oldschool BnB: 2ABC > 4C > j.BC > dj.BC > air throw
Tricky BnB: 2ABC > 4C > 236A > 5BC > j.BC > dj.BC > air throw (Does 4K+ damage)
Meter BnB: 2AAB5C > 214A > 2C > 236C

It's past 3 and I've been out pretty much all day so chances are I probably missed some things that I wanted to mention.

Just what I expected, although there is a few things I have to point in this post.

4>236B Always caught characters airborne since MBAC, although it was NEVER worth using it's pretty funny just seeing them two float in mid-air. I'm pretty sure with j.2C you can't special it like you could in MBAC which sucks....badly. I'm saying this because I've never seen anyone special cancel it since the game first came out so.....lame. For her 4B>236B knockdown I've seen JP players do blah blah blah >>>214[A]>2C>4B>236B.

Since 2C5C is pretty much impossible in FM I'm assuming that 2C4C is very well possible since it's listed in your combo list....GOOD SHIT! Also, thank god she retains her momentum with her J.214A like she does in HM/MBAC it's devastating that she loses it in CM, but I wonder if she retains her momentum with j.214C...that'd be too gdlk. With her 236A BNB you know it's possible to do more than just one rep. blah blah blah>236A xx 5A>5B>236A xx 5A>5B>236A xx 5B>5C airstring. Last, but not least I'm pretty sure you can special/EX cancel her 3C on block....according to Akira that is...it'd really suck if that's not the case.

Good shit on the write-up BTW.
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Offline COD3player

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 10:09:58 AM »
Thank you guys for pointing those out. I knew I missed some things and they just slipped my mind while I was playing. I'll make changes accordingly and probably write-up a to-do list as well for anyone who feels like testing things that are still kinda unclear. If any of you want to test Halfmoon then go right ahead and give a detailed writeup seeing that I won't be able to play the game for the next week and also so that this thread isn't just limited to C/F styles. I forgot to list 4C in FM so I'll do that but it's just like the one in CM.

I knew that in FM 236A could be looped but I wasn't sure how to do it. The Tricky BnB is tricky because if you do 4C too soon after 2C, the 236A won't connect because they'll be too high or they'll tech before hitting the ground. Likewise if you do it too late they fall to the ground too fast. More than anything I was surprised it could do roughly 4.5K to some characters. Kind of a bummer that 5C can't be done after 2C because I think that's more reliable since she moves forward and you can't air dash cancel your air normals.

Edit:
Though the updates are minor, they are highlighted in red. All major updates will follow this convention.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 10:38:48 AM by Azure Macabre »
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Offline Spidey

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 10:58:21 AM »
CM last arc is the same and does 4.5-5k dmg depending on character. HM seems to be alot of fun see retains the 6aa in the "would be shield cancel combo" for decent damage and she can do the really cool 4b charge combo. She also has a funcky spin kick that launches her forward but doesnt look too safe on block (63214a/b?). Also no 5cc, Obaloney looks to be maining this version of ciel so he would have a lot more information.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 11:56:13 AM by Spidey »
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Offline Lokanas

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 11:51:49 AM »
This what I've learned for F-Ciel while playing at AI.

Proper BnB is 2A>2B>2C>4C>236A>5AB>236A>5BC>j.BC>j.BC>22A>throw

Though it's questionable if you want to do that instead of just getting knockdown in some situations - replace 5BC into 5B>4C>236A.

3C is special cancelable on block, so there's some fun to be had there, and I've also found it to be a pretty good anti air in place of 4C at times thanks to hitboxes.

j.214C is pretty good on oki - gives her complete control over the current match flow if it lands on block and hits 2 times, and is air unblockable. If they are hit with the knife in the air they get ground slammed and the wave will freeze them long enough for you to dash in and land a 236A loop.

Her command grab, most unfortunately, is pretty gimmicky. It's definately no white len grab or kouma dunk. You have to make the opponent scared to do anything on defense to make it worthwhile since you can get thrown or mashed out of it - EX version clash frames get their ass kicked by 2AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

236A/B/C are multipurpose outside of combos. You can use 236A for frame traps - I've confirmed 236A>214A, 236A>236C. 236A>623B>236C, 236A>236A to be safe on block and leave you at the advantage. 236B is good for anti-jump during pressure, but your opponent can tech right out. It has to be spaced close enough so you can follow up properly. 236C beats most deep jumpins and wallslams, so it's better than 22C in some situations.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 07:19:13 PM by Lokanas »
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Offline Zaelar

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 01:00:10 PM »
Edit: Sorry, wrong thread.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 01:02:01 PM by Zaelar »

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 01:08:07 PM »


I knew that in FM 236A could be looped but I wasn't sure how to do it. The Tricky BnB is tricky because if you do 4C too soon after 2C, the 236A won't connect because they'll be too high or they'll tech before hitting the ground. Likewise if you do it too late they fall to the ground too fast. More than anything I was surprised it could do roughly 4.5K to some characters. Kind of a bummer that 5C can't be done after 2C because I think that's more reliable since she moves forward and you can't air dash cancel your air normals.


Figured the timing will be character dependent.

With that being said...Here's my obligatory fuck you to the Ciel players who are playing this game....Fuck you :V

Now that I got that out of my system, It's about damn time someone figured some IH shenanigans with F-Ciel...I KNOW there's some :( .  Like being able to IH 214A would be a great tool if possible. Also, I'm curious as to is it possible to chain 2B>2C? If so that would make the BNB I'm thinking of possible or easier at least and assuming you can IH 214A (I don't see why not, but who knows).

2A>2B>(3B, if possible)>5C>214A(Instant Heat if possible)>dash>2C>4C>mist finer (236A) loop>airstring or knockdown. I figured IH'ing the 214A would make the 2C follow up easier, although I know it's possible to do the follow w/o it.

I'm pretty sure 2B will combo into 5C anyway, but it would increase damage and bring you closer to your opponent to make the 214A xx 2C easier...but I can only theory fight at this point and it fucking blows...April 17th please come already <_<
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Offline Lokanas

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 01:27:00 PM »
Next time I'm down I'll look into IHing into bullshit; sounds like it could have some good setups for her command grab/TK j.214C now that I think about it. After messing around with 3B though, it doesn't seem worth it to throw into combos with F-Ciel thanks to proration on everything else. It's great in blockstrings though; makes a lot of people regret poking out only to eat FWAP FWAP into 236A loop. Also, if you can IH 214A it might be better to 5B>4C for damage. Dunno for sure though; just experience with using the two for launches. I'll do some proper homework on it at a later date.
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Offline COD3player

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 03:45:48 PM »
I dunno how I forgot about the whole IH stuff but yeah. You're sure 2C5C works in FM though? I could have sworn I tried it MULTIPLE times and the game wouldn't allow me. Like after comboing into 214A, you can actually link a 2C afterwards but you're too far to properly combo into or out of 4C at that range. I'm pretty sure 2C5C isn't possible.

Good thing we're all providing input. I'll update all the moves above and list some applications while making the first post sound like less of a narrative and more like a report.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 03:55:23 PM by Azure Macabre »
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Offline scottind

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 03:47:48 PM »
wait 2c5c works in FM? if so i might try this new combo. i hate 2c4c

i've also noticed that her crescent 236b gouki flip into grab is MUCH harder to time now. on the bright side 236b is much more controllable, so if you hold back you can land much farther.

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 07:21:00 PM »
Oh whoops, sorry total typo. I apologize for exciting you guys  and have fixed it >: Dash up 5B>4C can work after 214A>IH in theory, though.
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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 02:03:28 AM »
236A/B is chargeable

full charge will pretty much double the height of the jump. its fun but i dont know if its useful cuz it doesnt grant clash or anything.

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 02:02:07 PM »
was the 63214 throw blockable, i can't remember
i think someone tried it on me but i just blocked low and it didn't happen
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Offline Chie Satonaka

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2009, 11:57:02 AM »
Ok so outside of a shitty, inaccurate, and overall not funny Ciel flowchart (They're so Febuary 2009) it's about time this forum got a legit buff.

So like does anyone know anything about the specific properties on F-Ciel's j.214C on block? Everytime I see a F-CIel land this move they block the knife, but still gets hit by the shadow. Is the shadow unblockable or something? I'd figure someone who played the game would know something about it. Also...236A/B is chargable? Which style we're talking here?
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Offline Griffin-sama

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 09:05:51 AM »
Uhh, looks like F-Ciel's 3[C] is cancellable on whiff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fubosQRRkkg @2:08

...uhh, rather the recovery is not that large and it renders her airborne. Antijumpout into overheads blockstrings ownage?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 09:11:38 AM by Griffin-sama »

Offline Tonberry

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2009, 05:01:05 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/user/T3574M3N7#uploads/0/_uhI570Y_AA

Nice combo and crossup after at starting at 1:37
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Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2009, 06:03:10 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/user/T3574M3N7#uploads/0/_uhI570Y_AA

Nice combo and crossup after at starting at 1:37

After seeing that vid, I would like to quote a post in the MBAA thread.

I should've been more specific. What I meant to say was how can they block the knife on the ground, but yet get hit by the shadow still?

We have a framedata topic... j/k I know it's a bitch to try to figure out what move is what and it took me a bit of pain myself to look it up.

That attack is retarded. I never would have known if I didn't look it up, but the knife can be blocked in all positions, the wave hits low. It can't be airblocked or blocked high. The knife itself is a 1000 damage knife, the wave does 100 damage, no red or guard damage on block, 17f blockstun like normal, and holds the opponent in a stun state on hit.

Wow what the fuck that sounds like some Eddie unblockable shit right there.

At 1:53, didn't Wara block the wave high?
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Offline Ultima66

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2009, 07:32:24 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/user/T3574M3N7#uploads/0/_uhI570Y_AA

Nice combo and crossup after at starting at 1:37

After seeing that vid, I would like to quote a post in the MBAA thread.

I should've been more specific. What I meant to say was how can they block the knife on the ground, but yet get hit by the shadow still?

We have a framedata topic... j/k I know it's a bitch to try to figure out what move is what and it took me a bit of pain myself to look it up.

That attack is retarded. I never would have known if I didn't look it up, but the knife can be blocked in all positions, the wave hits low. It can't be airblocked or blocked high. The knife itself is a 1000 damage knife, the wave does 100 damage, no red or guard damage on block, 17f blockstun like normal, and holds the opponent in a stun state on hit.

Wow what the fuck that sounds like some Eddie unblockable shit right there.

At 1:53, didn't Wara block the wave high?

Looks like it. Framedata says low. Lokanas also says it hits low from testing. I don't know what exactly happened.

Offline LordPangTong

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2009, 07:45:16 AM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7415624

...What tier is C-Ciel, again?  :o

Edit: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7415677

The rape continues, but with F-Ciel... Holy shit, 5.7k...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 07:52:36 AM by LordPangTong »
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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2009, 03:38:10 PM »
F-Ciel has DAMAGE, like mad damage, as far as I can tell, that's about it, though.
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2009, 06:08:34 AM »
F-CL

IH Exploit

*J22A/B are both IHC'able

Command 1: 282>ABC

This will cause ciel to jump but a pixel from the floor and land instantly w/o recovery.

Ciel can fall early and "land" with 2A or throw.

Command 2: 282>E~E

Note: after 282 you must wait slightly for ciel to leave the ground unlike with command 1. ALSO after the 282 command you MUST be neutral when strumming E~E (282>wait>neutral>E>tap E again).

Command 2 allows ciel to jump about 1/2 of a character sprite vertically to perform an INSTANT jC. In appearance, this is reminiscent of GG's Faust when he uses j2k>faultless cancel>jHP

p.s. F-CL sucks... :(

but at least she's fun!!!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 07:28:59 AM by Zartacus! »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2009, 07:24:14 AM »
F-CL

IH Exploit

*J22A/B are both IHC'able

Command 1: 282>ABC

This will cause ciel to jump but i pixel from the floor and land instantly w/o recovery.

Ciel can fall early and "land" with 2A or throw.

Command 2: 282>E~E

Note: after 282 you must wait slightly for ciel to leave the ground unlike with command 1. ALSO after the 282 command you MUST be neutral when strumming E~E (282>wait>neutral>E>tap E again).

Command 2 allows ciel to jump about 1/2 of a character sprite vertically to perform an INSTANT jC. In appearance, this is reminiscent of GG's Faust when he uses j2k>faultless cancel>jHP

p.s. F-CL sucks... :(

but at least she's fun!!!

Spooky told me about this on IRC the other day. I'll have to test it out some more.
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2009, 02:54:54 PM »
F-cl

half screen / three-quarter screen confirm  **Opponent in corner***

214A>623C>jA*3>delay j22B>dj8ABC>delay 22B>airthrow


214A produces untechable launcher on hit. When it strikes it's extremely easy to confirm the hit and land a 623C at the given distance then follow up with a combo for some awesome damage. Not bad for landing a random projectile from nearly full screen.


....did i mention that this F-cl is fun?

Note:

to practice, set dummy to enemy defence: ALL GUARD + enemy defense type: RANDOM
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 02:59:26 PM by Zartacus! »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: MBAA: C/F Ciel Thread (ver.A)
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2009, 10:38:05 AM »
random notes:

Command Throws 63214A/B/C
A
Dash into throw that tosses opponent to opposite side. Clash frames appear to activate when Ciel leans fully into the dash animation. Can only clash up to one hit which can also be mashed (ie 2AAA). No other action can be performed from the dash as with a normal clash situation. Although the throw is similar in appearance to the normal throw, 63214A actually yields more frame advantage on down allowing for more elaborate setups or to setup the next offense sooner

B
Dash throw that tosses opponent to the wall and induces wall bound. No clash frames present. EXTREMELY difficult to combo from but two option are available if B throw is landed on a cornered opponent:

Combo1
63214B>airthrow

very simple combo followup from B command throw that leads to knockdown. The airthrow will leave you low enough to the ground to be able to set up a (mediocre) wakeup game.

Combo2
6324B>jABC>delay j22B>djABC>dj22B>airthrow

Time to break something. I'm convinced this combo is a 1~2f link (may vary vs some characters?). Scores about 3k from this so I guess it's worth the effort- it's just....really hard to do.  :emo:

C
Dashes into throw and high flying adventure. Throw has clash in the "full leaning" animation similar to the A version. Can also be mashed after clash and will not grab instantly. Throw gives aerial movement after (ie jumps, airdashes, specials, etc). C command throw can actually be controlled by holding 4 as the grab connects (neutral will result in a forward throw by default). This grab leads to very brain-dead wake up game by simply airdashing forward after:

option1
airdash>jC
guaranteed meaty

option2
airdash>early jC whiff>go low or throw
tricks or whatever. you also have the option to whiff jC late for the same effect

option3
airdash>late j2[c]
delay your landing a bit.

I'm sure the are a number of options to cycle through to throw the opponent off on the wakeup above are just the primary and basic options. Versus a cornered opponent, throwing them away from the corner gives you the option of crossing up with a meaty jC should you dash the moment ciel recovers from the airthrow. A slight delay in the dash will cause her to land in front to vary the mixup (very similar to MBAC midscreen throw shenanigans)



236B (aka "PIKACHU" HANDZZZZ  :psyduck:)
Good, fast, midscreen poking tool. Unairblockable. Learning to space properly with this will keep players from blindly rushing in and will keep others from moving around to hastily. Inputting an IAD command (676 or j7>6A+B) out of anticipation of 236B striking is a good habit to develop. Option Select IAD is useful in the case that one of the two situations can occur:

Hit
The Flicker lands and you immediately IAD on hit which will allow you to followup with a hard hitting combo:
236B>iad>jC>land>jBC>djBC>dj22b>airthrow or j214c

versus some characters (eg tohno shiki [I haven't tested the entire cast yet])
236B>iad>jC>land>jabc>delay j22b>djabc>j22b>airthrow

Guard/Miss
Flicker whiffs or is guarded. 236B can only be jump canceled on hit so if the hit doesn't occur then nothing happens and you get enough time to plan you next action during the short recovery.

eg
236B>236B
tag a jump out or other movement

236B>236A
"ashimoto chui da"

236B>623A
extremely tight guard string....but she gets nothing confirmable on hit (lol sad character)

236B>63214C or dash in
If you think they're scared to move then go for it.

236B is weak against sliding lows so watch out. If you're getting hit by lows that aren't sliding then you're not spacing right. You gotta out-box.  :V



BE5C (>236A)
GDLK anti-air. Just shortly after startup, the clash frames kick in. Hold C until the clash occurs then release and cancel into 236A for optimal damage. The released C will either hit them airborne (in which you combo into 236A which will itself lead to pikachu loops) or they will land into 236A (guarded or hit will still be no real disadvantage). Recommended vs opponents that fall with jumping attacks or vs "arcing" IADs that are easy to react to.

BE4B (>236B)
Surprise, surprise. Another good anti-air option. This is better for players with slower reflexes as clash will kick in a bit earlier. BE4B stikes a bit later for some reason and will often not score you an air CH. This is why it's best to buffer in the 236B command after to land the finisher and a good knockdown. If they land and guard, 236B is executed instead (+1 ?). BE4B is also recommended vs characters that have fast, low altitude and linear air dashes e.g. Ryougi or Aoko. BE5C you'd have to start a bit earlier and that's just enough time to get you smacked in the head.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 10:47:26 AM by Zartacus! »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.