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Offline ikusat

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Damage Modifiers
« on: March 28, 2007, 03:56:21 PM »
Damage Modifiers
Everyone in the game has 11000 health, but you may have noticed that some characters are easier to kill than others.  This is due to each character's innate defense modifier.  The table below gives the defense modifier for each character, for any given hit in that particular life bracket.  These numbers are based on the PS2 Melty Blood Act Cadenza.  The only characters which might have questionable ratings are Neco Arc Chaos and White Ren since they just added them to Version B.

Character Name(100%-75% life)(75%-50% life)(50%-25% life)(25%-0% life)Estimated Life
Akiha90%85%80%80%13165
Kouma90%85%85%80%12964
Nero90%85%85%80%12964
Arcueid90%90%85%80%12784
Hisui85%90%90%90%12402
Sion90%90%90%90%12222
Aoko100%90%90%85%12095
Shiki90%92%92%90%12089
Satsuki100%100%90%80%11993
Miyako100%90%90%90%11917
M-Hisui85%90%100%100%11791
Nanaya100%95%90%90%11756
Sion(T)100%95%90%90%11756
Warakia110%100%90%80%11742
Ciel90%90%100%100%11610
Kohaku90%90%100%100%11610
Arcueid(R)90%100%100%100%11305
Ren110%100%100%90%11056
White Ren100%100%100%100%11000
Neco Arc Chaos140%110%100%90%10270
Akiha(V)110%110%110%100%10250
Neco Arc130%120%110%90%9963
So attacks to Warakia deal 110% damage when he is full at life, normal damage once he hits 75% life, 90% damage when he hits 50% life, and 80% damage when he is at 25% life.  In general people become harder to kill when they reach lower life, but the biggest exception would be Mech Hisui, who takes more and more damage as she gets more and more damaged.  Thus, it might be wise to activate heat as much as possible to stay in the higher defense brackets for as long as possible.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 04:33:49 PM by ikusat »

Offline ikusat

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2007, 08:49:40 PM »
Version B2 table.  Kouma, Hisui, Kohaku(why?) nerfed. Sacchin, Ciel, Warcueid buffed.
White Ren is a fucking tank.

Edit: This is for versions 1.00 and 1.01.

Character Name(100%-75% life)(75%-50% life)(50%-25% life)(25%-0% life)Estimated Life
Akiha90%85%80%80%13166
Nero90%85%85%80%12964
White Ren100%90%80%75%12910
Arcueid90%90%85%80%12784
Kouma92%90%85%80%12717
Satsuki100%90%90%80%12299
Sion90%90%90%90%12222
Hisui85%95%92%90%12175
Aoko100%90%90%85%12096
Shiki90%92%92%90%12089
Miyako100%90%90%90%11917
Ciel90%90%90%100%11917
M-Hisui85%90%100%100%11791
Nanaya100%95%90%90%11756
Sion(T)100%95%90%90%11756
Warakia110%100%90%80%11743
Arcueid(R)90%100%100%90%11611
Kohaku90%90%105%105%11349
Ren110%100%100%90%11056
Neco Arc Chaos140%110%100%90%10270
Akiha(V)110%110%110%100%10250
Neco Arc130%120%110%90%9963
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 01:02:21 AM by ikusat »

Offline ikusat

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 01:09:27 AM »
Version 1.02 has minor tweaks for most characters.  Necos got moved around a lot though.
Up: Nero, Shiki, Nanaya, Warakia, Neco Arc, Neco Arc Chaos
Down: Akiha, Kouma, Miyako, Mech Hisui, V. Sion

Congrats Aquiha, you are once again bottom.

Edit: Seems like life totals are now 11400.

Character Name(100%-75% life)(75%-50% life)(50%-25% life)(25%-0% life)Estimated Life
Akiha92%85%80%80%13576
Nero88%85%85%80%13507
White Ren100%90%80%75%13379
Arcueid90%90%85%80%13249
Kouma94%90%85%80%13114
Satsuki100%90%90%80%12746
Sion90%90%90%90%12667
Hisui85%95%92%90%12617
Shiki88%92%92%90%12601
Aoko100%90%90%85%12536
Ciel90%90%90%100%12350
Miyako102%90%90%90%12294
Nanaya98%95%90%90%12241
Warakia108%100%90%80%12218
Mech Hisui87%90%100%100%12143
V. Sion102%95%90%90%12127
Warcueid90%100%100%90%12033
Neco Arc140%70%110%90%11865
Neco Arc Chaos70%140%110%90%11865
Kohaku90%90%105%105%11762
Ren110%100%100%90%11458
Aquiha110%110%110%100%10623
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 01:42:16 AM by ikusat »

Offline Mailorder

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2007, 02:33:32 AM »
Which version is arcade B2 perfect: 1.00/1.01 or 1.02?

Any gameplay reasons as to why Mech Hisui, Kohaku and Ciel take more damage as they hit lower points of their life bars?  Are the developers trying to encourage players of these characters to Heat in the early stages of the rounds?

Offline ikusat

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2007, 11:51:23 PM »
My best guess would be that 1.01 is the "arcade perfect" version, but I'm not seeing a big issue whichever version you use.  The changes amount to about half a 2A.

And it's anyone guess as to why Melty Blood's life system works the way it does.  One thing to keep in mind is the hidden combo incrementer(explained here http://www.meltybread.com/forums/index.php?topic=141.0), so the "increased" damage isn't as drastic as the chart might lead you to believe.  But yeah, for those characters, activating heat early and often seems to be the best way to get the most out of their life points.

Offline ikusat

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 02:46:34 AM »
Version 1.03A update.  Grats Arc, you got 72 health.

Character Name(100%-75% life)(75%-50% life)(50%-25% life)(25%-0% life)Estimated Life
Akiha92%85%80%80%13576
Nero88%85%85%80%13507
White Ren100%90%80%75%13379
Arcueid88%90%85%80%13321
Kouma94%90%85%80%13114
Satsuki100%90%90%80%12746
Sion90%90%90%90%12667
Hisui85%95%92%90%12617
Shiki88%92%92%90%12601
Aoko100%90%90%85%12536
Ciel90%90%90%100%12350
Miyako102%90%90%90%12294
Nanaya98%95%90%90%12241
Warakia108%100%90%80%12218
Mech Hisui87%90%100%100%12143
V. Sion102%95%90%90%12127
Warcueid90%100%100%90%12033
Neco Arc140%70%110%90%11865
Neco Arc Chaos70%140%110%90%11865
Kohaku90%90%105%105%11762
Ren110%100%100%90%11458
Aquiha110%110%110%100%10623
Side note I discovered: While HisuKoha share the damage modifier value of whichever twin is out, the combo counter is modified by -2(a rough increase in damage per hit of 6.67%).  In other words, the 3nd hit of the combos hurts them like the 1st hit would to any other character.  Ok, that didn't make much sense either, but I hope you caught the drift.

Offline motoh

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2007, 03:02:34 AM »
Basically you're saying combo count proration doesn't take effect until hit 3, while combo proration acts as normal, right?

~M

Offline ikusat

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2007, 06:36:32 AM »
Any particular hit in a combo does
(33 - <hit count> - <life scaling modifier> + <2 if using twins> )/32

life scaling mod is 0 between 100 and 75 life, 1 from 75-50, 2 from 50-25, and 3 from 25-0.
twins mod is 2 if using twins, 0 if not.

So the first hit vs a normal person is
(33 - 1 - 0 + 0)/32 = 100%

vs twins
(33 - 1 - 0 + 2)/32 = 106.25%

Minimum is 1/32.  You can read more in the damage scaling thread.

Offline linalys

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2007, 07:41:23 AM »
I remember Kohaku being middlish in the charts (though looking at the top shows she's top of the bottom) and now she's 3rd from the bottom (despite getting more life).  lol

Now in her best form (with Hisui) she has this +/-2 modifier? LOL  Of course it's only a matter of ~500 life keeping her from mediocrity but still...

Kohaku buff plz. 
<Xenozip> actually i think miyako was intuitive for linalys
<Xenozip> simple because his playstyle is.. well..
<Xenozip> linalys
<Xenozip> true chaotic

Offline Arlieth Tralare

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 05:29:54 PM »
Shit- do we have damage charts for MBAA?
<bellreisa> arly *has* given up 3s
<bellreisa> retired it anyways
<linalys> no he hasn't
<linalys> it lives on in crouch shield
<proxyZAR> and it will die there too lol

Offline dakanya

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2009, 09:23:34 PM »
Shit- do we have damage charts for MBAA?

キャラ名 ~100 ~75 ~50 ~25 総合
V.Akiha 赤秋葉 1.1 1.1 1.1 1 1.075
Akiha 秋葉 0.92 0.85 0.82 0.8 0.8475
Aoko 青子 1 1 0.9 0.9 0.95
Arcueid アルク 0.9 0.9 0.85 0.8 0.8625
Ciel シエル 0.9 0.9 0.9 1 0.925
Osiris オシリス 0.7 0.6 0.6 0.5 0.6
Hisui 翡翠 0.85 0.95 0.92 0.9 0.905
Kouma 軋間 0.92 0.9 0.85 0.8 0.8675
Kohaku 琥珀 0.9 0.9 1 0.9 0.925
Kohaku (Mech & Kohaku) 琥珀(メカ&琥珀) 0.9 0.9 1 0.9 0.925
C-Mech Cメカ 0.87 0.9 1 1 0.9425
F-Mech Fメカ 0.9 1 1.1 1.1 1.025
H-Mech Hメカ 1.2 1 0.9 0.85 0.9875
Mech (Mech & Neko) メカ(メカ&ネコ) 0.87 0.9 1 1 0.9425
Len レン 1.1 1 1 0.9 1
Miyako 都古 1 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.925
Nanaya 七夜 1 0.95 0.9 0.9 0.9375
Neko 猫 1.4 0.7 1.1 0.9 1.025
Nero ネロ 0.9 0.85 0.85 0.8 0.85
Ries リーズ 1.02 0.9 0.9 0.8 0.905
Roa ロア 1 0.95 0.9 0.9 0.9375
Satsuki さつき 1 0.9 0.9 0.8 0.9
Tohno 志貴 0.92 0.9 0.9 0.92 0.91
Sion シオン 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9
V.Sion Vシオン 1 0.95 0.9 0.9 0.9375
Warakia ワラキア 1.1 1.1 0.9 0.8 0.975
Warcueid ワルク 0.9 1 1 0.9 0.95
W.Len 白レン 1 0.9 0.8 0.8 0.875

キャラ名 総合
(欄外)オシリス 0.6
01 Akiha 秋葉 0.8475
02 Nero ネロ 0.85
03 Arcueid アルク 0.8625
04 Kouma 軋間 0.8675
05 W.Len 白レン 0.875
06 Satsuki さつき 0.9
06 Sion シオン 0.9
08 Hisui 翡翠 0.905
08 Ries リーズ 0.905
10 Tohno 志貴 0.91
11 Ciel シエル 0.925
11 Kohaku 琥珀 0.925
(欄外)Kohaku (Mech & Kohaku) 琥珀(メカ&琥珀) 0.925
11 Miyako 都古 0.925
14 Nanaya 七夜 0.9375
14 Roa ロア 0.9375
14 V.Sion Vシオン 0.9375
17 C-Mech Cメカ 0.9425
(欄外)Mech (Mech & Neko) メカ(メカ&ネコ) 0.9425
18 Aoko 青子 0.95
18 Warcueid ワルク 0.95
20 Warakia ワラキア 0.975
21 H-Mech Hメカ 0.9875
22 Len レン 1
23 F-Mech Fメカ 1.025
23 Neko 猫 1.025
25 V.Akiha 赤秋葉 1.075

EDIT: Names translated.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 09:27:47 PM by Dakanya »
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Offline ikusat

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 10:43:12 PM »
From the above info:

Character Name(100%-75% life)(75%-50% life)(50%-25% life)(25%-0% life)Average
Osiris0.70.60.60.50.592
Akiha0.920.850.820.80.845
Nero0.90.850.850.80.849
Arcueid0.90.90.850.80.860
Kouma0.920.90.850.80.865
W.Len10.90.80.80.867
Satsuki10.90.90.80.894
Ries1.020.90.90.80.898
Sion0.90.90.90.90.900
Hisui0.850.950.920.90.904
Tohno0.920.90.90.920.910
Ciel0.90.90.910.923
Kohaku0.90.910.90.923
Kohaku (Mech & Kohaku)0.90.910.90.923
Miyako10.90.90.90.923
Nanaya10.950.90.90.936
V.Sion10.950.90.90.936
Roa10.950.90.90.936
C-Mech0.870.9110.939
Mech (Mech & Neko)0.870.9110.939
Aoko110.90.90.947
Warcueid0.9110.90.947
Warakia1.11.10.90.80.957
Neko1.40.71.10.90.961
H-Mech1.210.90.850.971
Len1.1110.90.995
F-Mech0.911.11.11.018
Aquiha1.11.11.111.073
Edit: Fixed averages and sorted!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 11:14:09 PM by ikusat »

Offline ikusat

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 11:11:29 PM »
Lol Archetype Earth.

PS2 MBAA
Life totals are once again 11000

Character Name100%75%50%25%Est Life Pts
Arc Earth0.70.650.570.617567
Akiha0.920.850.820.813015
Nero0.90.850.850.812963
Arcueid0.90.90.850.812783
Kouma0.920.90.850.812717
W.Len10.90.80.812680
Satsuki10.90.90.812298
Ries1.020.90.90.812244
Sion0.90.90.90.912222
Hisui0.850.950.920.912174
Tohno0.920.90.90.9211928
Ciel0.90.90.9111916
S.Akiha0.90.90.9111916
Kohaku0.90.910.911916
Roa0.950.950.90.911900
Miyako10.950.90.911755
V.Sion10.950.90.911755
C-Mech0.870.91111716
Nanaya10.960.920.911659
Warakia1.11.050.90.811612
Aoko110.90.911611
Warcueid0.95110.911450
Neko1.40.71.10.911448
Len1.110.950.911200
F-Mech0.911.11.111198
Ryougi1.0510.950.9511158
H-Mech1.210.90.8510681
Aquiha1.11.11.1110250
Neko Arc Chaos1.60.71.341.110199
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 07:22:34 PM by ikusat »

Offline Mengjun

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2011, 10:32:26 AM »
CC (edit: 1.07): Totals seem to be 11500 11400 now. (Sorry, was a little quick on my conclusion. Fixed now, hopefully.)

Sion and Nanaya sure seem to have dropped on the list.

Character Name
100%
75%
50%
25%
Est. Life Pts
Akiha0.920.850.820.80 13488
C-Nero0.900.870.870.80 13280
Arcueid0.900.900.850.80 13248
HF-Nero0.900.880.870.80 13243
Kouma0.920.900.850.80 13179
W.Len1.000.900.800.80 13141
Satsuki1.000.900.900.80 12745
Ries1.020.900.900.80 12689
Hisui0.850.950.920.90 12617
Tohno0.920.900.920.95 12362
Ciel0.900.900.901.00 12350
Kohaku0.900.901.000.90 12350
S.Akiha0.900.900.901.00 12350
Roa0.950.950.900.90 12333
Sion0.950.950.900.90 12333
F-Mech0.850.871.001.05 12193
Hisui (&Kohaku)0.850.950.920.90 *12190
Miyako1.000.950.900.90 12183
V.Sion1.000.950.900.90 12183
C-Mech0.870.901.001.00 12142
Wallachia1.101.050.900.80 12034
Aoko1.001.000.900.90 12033
Warcuied0.951.000.950.90 12016
C-Neco&Mech0.870.951.001.00 11975
Kohaku (&Hisui)0.900.901.000.90 *11932
Koha&Mech0.900.951.001.00 11866
Nanaya1.001.000.950.90 11866
NecoArc1.400.701.100.90 11864
P.Ciel0.950.950.951.00 11850
H-Mech1.201.000.900.85 11744
H-Neco&Mech1.201.050.900.85 11608
Len1.101.000.950.90 11607
Ryougi1.051.020.980.95 11416
Archetype: Earth1.001.001.001.00 11400
F-Neco&Mech0.951.001.101.10 11031
Neco Arc Chaos1.600.701.401.10 10479
V.Akiha1.151.151.101.00 10397

*Hisui&Kohaku get another factor 1.035 on the damage received.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 03:56:26 PM by Mengjun »

Offline Irysa

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 01:32:49 AM »
Why the fuck did they make h and f nero have 40 less hp than c, lol
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[17:10:32] <Irysa> why are you even looking at those
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Offline worldjem

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2012, 01:11:24 AM »
How do you find that Hisui&Kohaku get another factor 1.035 on damage recieved?

I just went through all the characters' defenses in MBAACC v1.07 and I found that the guts factor changes depending on current character state.

Jump: x0.88
Stand : x1.00
Crouch x1.08

These multipliers affect the current guts for the current amount of health, so if you're at full health and your 100% guts is 1.000 and you're in the air, your guts becomes 0.880 and becomes 1.000 once you touch the ground and are in Stand state. Same thing for crouching, the Guts State Modifier changes as the state changes, even during combos.

So you actually have MORE health when you're in the air than when on the ground, and you have LESS health when crouching on the ground as opposed to standing.

These are my findings after checking the guts rating of every character.

NOTE: All guts modifiers listed below are based on Stand state.
If damage ends up becoming a decimal, it will always round down.

Character Name
100%
75%
50%
25%
Net Health
T. Akiha0.9200.8230.7680.72514202
C-Nero0.9000.8420.8150.72513979
Arcueid0.9000.8710.7960.72513950
HF-Nero0.9000.8520.8150.72513939
Kouma0.9200.8710.7960.72513881
W.Len1.0000.8710.7500.72513853
Satsuki1.0000.8710.8430.725 13433
Ries1.0200.8710.8430.725 13378
Hisui0.8500.9200.8620.815 13253
Tohno S.0.9200.8710.8620.860 12990
Kohaku0.9000.8710.9370.815 12977
Roa0.9500.9200.8430.815 12975
Sion0.9500.9200.8430.815 12975
Ciel0.9000.8710.8430.906 12965
S. Akiha0.9000.8710.8430.906 12965
Miyako1.0000.9200.8430.815 12825
T. Sion1.0000.9200.8430.815 12825
Hisui (&Kohaku)0.8790.9520.8920.843 12811
F-Mech0.8500.8420.9370.951 12776
C-Mech0.8700.8710.9370.906 12735
Warachia1.1001.0170.8430.725 12705
Aoko1.0000.9680.8430.815 12671
R. Arcueid0.9500.9680.8900.815 12643
C-Neco&Mech0.8700.9200.9370.906 12561
Kohaku (&Hisui)0.9310.9010.9700.843 12543
Neco-Arc1.4000.6781.0310.815 12500
Nanaya1.0000.9680.8900.815 12493
Kohaku&Mech0.9000.9200.9370.906 12451
P.Ciel0.9500.9200.8900.906 12445
H-Mech1.2000.9680.8430.770 12401
H-Neco&Mech1.2001.0170.8430.770 12259
Len1.1000.9680.8900.815 12234
Ryougi1.050.9880.9180.86 12017
Archetype: Earth1.0000.9680.9370.906 11981
F-Neco&Mech0.9500.9681.0310.996 11569
Neco-Arc Chaos1.6000.6781.3120.996 11018
V.Akiha1.1501.1141.0310.906 10946

Here are the characters who moved around in rank:

Kohaku +1
Roa +2
Sion +2
Ciel -3
S. Akiha -2
Miyako +2
T. Sion +2
Hisui (&Kohaku) -1
F-Mech -3
Neco-Arc +2
Kohaku&Mech -2
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 01:13:34 AM by worldjem »

Offline Rokunaya

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2012, 06:44:12 AM »
wow, good stuff there, that's some nice info. Must have taken a while..
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Offline Sashi

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2012, 09:24:49 AM »
Neco-Arc Chaos   1.600   0.678   1.312   0.996   11018

Holy crap, 1.6. Gonna always grind combos on NAC to feel good about myself.
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Offline worldjem

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2012, 11:01:10 AM »
wow, good stuff there, that's some nice info. Must have taken a while..

lol yeah. I definitely didn't finish this in one sitting.

Would it be OK if I updated the wiki with my findings?

And if you wanna feel good about your combos, just combo a crouching V. Akiha. She only has 7k health while crouching! WTF?!

Also, here is a chart of all the characters' guts ratings: (link removed)

The number on the right of each chart with no header is the difference between the one next to it and the one right above it. So, the difference between Jump T. Akiha and Jump C-Nero is 257 HP.

The Average chart on the far right just averages the 3 different healths that each character has between Jump, Stand, and Crouch states.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 03:42:17 PM by worldjem »

Offline The505

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2012, 11:53:27 AM »
And if you wanna feel good about your combos, just combo a crouching V. Akiha. She only has 7k health while crouching! WTF?!

As a vakiha player who crouch blocks far too often, this explains a lot.  :psyduck:

I swear being vakiha is suffering at times.  :nyoro:
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Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2012, 07:16:34 PM »
So if I'm using Nanaya and I 2C 5C someone who's standing, the 2C will deal 1.00x damage while the 5C will deal 0.88x damage, since the 2C puts them in the air?
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Offline Zaelar

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2012, 06:10:58 AM »
It may be sleep deprivation but that chart doesn't look right, especially crouching vakiha.

Offline Meseki

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2012, 09:47:33 AM »
The problem with the crouching V-Akiha damage modifier on the chart is the lack of a decimal point for the last 25% of her HP (I certainly hope she doesn't take 978 times the damage in the last 25%).

Offline worldjem

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2012, 03:39:24 PM »
Thanks for that catch, it is definitely a typo.

V. Akiha's 25% crouch guts is 0.978 NOT 978.000.

Fixed: http://i.minus.com/iTgPMkJP9NMki.png


So if I'm using Nanaya and I 2C 5C someone who's standing, the 2C will deal 1.00x damage while the 5C will deal 0.88x damage, since the 2C puts them in the air?

That's correct. As soon as they change state, their guts is modified.

Base Damage * (Guts*State) = Real Damage

so it would be

2C * (Guts*1.00) then
5C * (Guts*0.88)

Offline Mengjun

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Re: Damage Modifiers
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2012, 03:55:50 PM »
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/game-engine-mechanics/damage-scaling/

worldjem: If you compare normal Hisui numbers with Hisui (&Kohaku) numbers, it differs by a factor 1.035. Other than that, they have the same guts. Also, your defense numbers still contain the effects of the hidden combo incrementer at lower health, which is why you are getting relatively weird numbers. (Especially seeing as none of the other MB installments have more than 2 decimals in their guts numbers) As an example, below 25% HP, 3 hits are added to the combo counter when it comes to calculating damage scaling, causing first hit damage to deal only 90.675% of its original damage. (Which makes the 1.00 that I get for V.Akiha 25% HP consistent with the 0.906 = 1.00 * 90.675% that you get.)

Also, my table is also about CC 1.07, sorry if I didn't make that clear enough, and if made you do a lot of extra work.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 04:02:21 PM by Mengjun »