Dodge

[td]

How unsafe is it? Whats the frame info for startup/duration/vulnerability frames?

How come I almost never see good players use it? (if not obvious from explanation to above)

[Zaelar]

I think instant startup, short but fair duration, but bad recovery.  If you dodge an A attack(and what else is your opponent going to do?) they recover before the dodge.  If When they mash it you'll just get hit by a later one.

It's good for dodging most B/C attacks(if you see them coming, it's risky), charged moves, and some projectiles.  It's never(I think) good to use as anti-air.

[Sphyra]

The move has its merits but the inconsistent results you get is what keeps most people from relying on dodge too much.

[Ultima66]

The rolls are a bit better for getting out of stuff than just plain dodges also, with Miyako probably having the best dodge in the game.

[Sphyra]

it's a cartwheel of course it's the best dodge in the game

[S-Blade]

IF I RECALL CORRECTLY
there's 1f startup and 2f recovery? i'm not -exactly- sure but it's something like that

generally with dodge it's bad to dodge any moves with low recovery or any air moves (just because they recover as soon as they land regardless) because it's an easy punish

it can be very powerful though if you have enough yomi....many a time it looks completely safe to wakeup heat as the opponent is right next to you (possibly faking some meaty 2a) before he dodges your heat and you are in a world of pain....especially because unlike shield, there's no proration involved at all.

[Zaelar]

I don't know the frame data, but 2f recovery seems short.

Also backdash works as a safer but less rewarding dodge that doesn't work in the corner.

[Sprint]

Dodge is 0f + 23f + 3f (Startup + Dodge time + Recovery)
Rolling dodges are 0f + 27f + 4f (Len, Kohaku, Miyako, Sion)
Nero's dash is 0f + 52f + 4f (and he can't be grabbed out of it like with dodge)

Backdash has 2f startup, which means unlike dodge it cannot be used against meaties on wakeup.

[Zaelar]

Backdash has 2f startup

O.o for real?

[dakanya]

Backdash has 2f startup

O.o for real?

yeah I'm not sure if it's in the arcade verison but Veteru commented this wasn't in the PS2 version and discovered it during EVO '06.

[Sphyra]

Backdash has 2f startup...

Oops... I guess this explains a few things. 

[linalys]

Vet says backdash has 1f of vulnerable startup.  Wow, that sucks for wakeup backdash I guess.  It's already pretty nerfed in general, I wouldn't mind it being completely safe on startup. 

[Sprint]

Vet is wrong.

Chances are it was calculated incorrectly, not taking into account that the transition into a stun state from a non-stunned state takes priority over everything except normals.

For example, against Satsuki 5A, which has 4 frames of startup:

• Inputting '4' exactly 4 frames after 5A results in a successful block, since blocking has no startup.
• Inputting '2Q', '5Q', 'D', or '214D' exactly 4 frames after 5A will not work. Why? Because getting knocked into stun takes priority. You'll just block or get hit depending on which direction you pressed or were holding on that frame.
• However, inputting '214D' or '5Q' exactly 4 frames after 5A but during blockstun (or hitstun) will intercept the 5A just fine. It works because, since you're already in blockstun, there's no stun transition frame to take priority over your inputs.

As for backdash;

• Inputting it 2 frames after 5A avoids it
• Inputting it 3 frames after 5A gets you slapped in the face
• Inputting it 4 frames after 5A will cause the game to ignore the input, and you'll just block instead due to pressing 4

Represented in a visual form:
SSSSHHHRRRRRRRRRR <- Satsuki 5A : Startup, Hit, Recovery
__SSDDDD... <- Good backdash
___SSDDDD... <- Bad backdash (5A hits the second frame of startup)
____SSDDDD... <- No backdash (Stun transition takes priority. Registers as high block due to pressing 4)
_____SSDDDD... <- Late backdash (You get hit before the input registers)

2 Frames of startup. That is all.

(edit: forgot about normals; the stun transition doesn't take priority over 5X and 2X, just everything else)