Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Kohaku's Magical Garage => : Numakie August 29, 2007, 11:58:24 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Update:
2007-08-20:11.11p : Changed the title to "Reverse Beat: Whiff Canceling" and changed the words in this post accordingly
2007-08-30: Changed the thread from "Jab Canceling" to "Reverse Beat: Jab Canceling"
Introduction
The Combo system of Melty Blood works in such a way that, provided that you are hitting the opponent, any normal hit can cancel into any normal hit. (ex: A cancels to B, C cancels to A) On the same token, once you do a move, you can't repeat that move in a single string once you used it. This applies to hitting the opponent whether he is blocking or not.
There is a slight different to hitting an opponent that is not blocking and one that is blocking. This will lead to 2 different kinds of options depending on the situation
If you manage to hit an opponent that is not blocking, you have the additional ability to "Jump Cancel", which means that you are able to cancel a normal move with a jump. It is well known when doing air combos from any sweep to another normal hit, you can immediately jump up in the air for pursuit. This is a basic concept of "Jump Canceling." It also means that you can hit a standing opponent with a B and jump right after word. Looking at this further, this brings along other options of "Counter Punishing', catching people in the air, or as other means of mix ups.
Most of the time though, before you will be able to land that hit, the opponent will be blocking, and that will limit your options with the strings that you will be able to use against your opponent. That means you will be strictly limited to canceling moves with a special move or waiting for something like a whiffed sweep to recover, which leave you screaming to the opponent "Hit me". Looking back to the concept that any normal move can cancel to any normal move, if you are met with this situation of hitting a blocking opponent, you will want to whiff something that gives the least amount of recovery. This leaves one possible option, the Jab A.
Whiff Canceling
Whiff Canceling refers to the use of whiffing a standing A in mid pressure against a blocking opponent. The reason why standing A is a good option is because a majority of moves from ground encounters are done using crouching moves. In most cases, standing moves will not be used unless in the middle of a combo. This leaves the standing A an available option to recover quickly since it isn't used much otherwise. In a combo string against a blocking opponent, a standing A that is whiffed will bring you back to a neutral state quickly. That means you can rush in and do every single one of your normal moves, then whiff an A, the do all your moves again.
This also give the player different options that are not available otherwise. Any move that otherwise has an extreme recovery can have an A whiffed right after for a quick recovery. Sweeps can be spammed against a grounded opponent. C's can be Whiff Canceled, only to follow up with another C. One can even throw an opponent after a Whiff Cancel, provided they are close enough to do so. Also, Depending on the situation, other moves can be canceled into provide that they haven't been used yet in a single string
Drawbacks
While this concept may sound like a godsend at first, there are some drawbacks with Whiff Canceling. First of all, a move can only be canceled if it actually connects against an opponent. This means that a normal move like a laggy C attack that doesn't connect will be just that... a laggy C attack. Whiff Canceling only assures that you can continue any pressure string used against an opponent. It will not prevent an opponent from blocking, countering, or shielding you. This concept is only considered as an additional means to use against an opponent. Also, depending on the character, some normal moves cannot be Whiff Canceled, or have other specific follow ups, thus not allowing the option to Whiff Cancel. Each character has its own use of this method, therefore using this tactic may take some experimenting or getting used to.
Conclusion
Aside from the drawbacks though, Whiff Canceling offers a solid option for recovering quickly in mid combo through the use of normal moves. It lessens the chance of moves that scream "Hit me" from staying out longer then it should. It is also universal from character to character, so each character has a means of using it in their own manner. While the use of this tactic may not win all your matches, it does present as a tool against players of a higher caliber. After all, the best way to attack or defend is to make sure that you are ready for it in the first place.
In closing, I'd like to say good luck on your matches. I hope this helps your gameplay.
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Random Tidbit: Satsuki's 214a(I think) is jump cancelable on block. An exception to the rule.
While this does work for every character, some characters have other options for ending block strings at times. It should be noted that any normal or special can be used, it just happens that 5a's are universally good. 2a's work great too but are usually used to start the string and thus are unavailable, as you sort of said. Also, there are some normals that can't chain into any normal, for example Ciel's 5c will only chain into the 5c follow-up to the first 5c; You can't do 5c into 5a. Also note that your 5a/2a is cancelable into shield on whiff in case your opponent baras something. I haven't used this to good effect yet, its just theory at this point.
Information about reverse beat is also useful here as if you chain from a B or C attack to an A attack it will get the penalty.
After doing a whiffed A at the end of a block string, you can do a high priority poke, a dash grab, or a dash attack for a little mixup. Some people like to jump away after the whiffed A so keep some anti jump away tactics in mind, which are mostly character specific.
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'Jab canceling'?
Don't you just mean reverse beat, guy?
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'Jab canceling'?
Don't you just mean reverse beat, guy?
"Reverse Beat" is a form of Jargon to the MB community and is not something easily understood to the average person or someone who is new to the game, at least not at first. The reason I call it "Jab Canceling" is because that's how I remembered it when I first observed it, and it is a lingo that most people can understand. I, personally, didn't understand what Reverse Beating was until recently when Kyro explained the basics of it to me at Evo. :P
This section will refined over time. In the mean time feel free to give any input, whether it be character specifics, exceptions to the rule, etc.
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I think you should drop 'jab canceling' and stick with reverse beat, because you may just confuse people further with your own jargon instead one that's officially part of the game. Just mention it as being a facet of reverse beat, because the way you describe it's made out to be something completley separate to RB's all together (which it's not). Go into further detail with reverse beat while you're at it.
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I see your point about it being a variation of Reverse Beat. However from what i understand, Reverse Beats are only counted as Reverse Beats if they connect. This type of canceling i am trying to point out doesn't end up connecting, and yet players do use it in gameplay. Therefore, does whiffing A's in this manner really count as "Reverse Beat"?
If it doesnt, then what should it be called?
Just something to think about. :P
Also, ill definitely make mention of Reverse beats the second round of this thing.
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I see your point about it being a variation of Reverse Beat. However from what i understand, Reverse Beats are only counted as Reverse Beats if they connect.
That isn't correct. If you even input a backwards heavy move (C to A in air without jc, for example), you suffer the damage scale rate.
Repeat offenses will extend the percentage lasting and overall damage scalling, but it will eventually revert to normal.
You can see it demonstrated in training by the damage.
~Chun
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I see your point about it being a variation of Reverse Beat. However from what i understand, Reverse Beats are only counted as Reverse Beats if they connect.
That isn't correct. If you even input a backwards heavy move (C to A in air without jc, for example), you suffer the damage scale rate.
Repeat offenses will extend the percentage lasting and overall damage scalling, but it will eventually revert to normal.
You can see it demonstrated in training by the damage.
~Chun
He had the right idea, but I was discussing this with him and I answered(off the top of my head) incorrectly about RB's and so he put that instead, simply because he can't double check at the moment(at work).
So that was my mistake. After I actually checked, I realized I was wrong. So oops on my behalf. :slowpoke:
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Does it really now. :o Guess ill need to further test it.
Oh well. im only human =P
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I see your point about it being a variation of Reverse Beat. However from what i understand, Reverse Beats are only counted as Reverse Beats if they connect. This type of canceling i am trying to point out doesn't end up connecting, and yet players do use it in gameplay. Therefore, does whiffing A's in this manner really count as "Reverse Beat"?
If it doesnt, then what should it be called?
Just something to think about. :P
Also, ill definitely make mention of Reverse beats the second round of this thing.
No, you're seriously just talking about reverse beats Numakie.
Doing 2ABC into 5A on block = Reverse beat.
Doing 2C into 5A on block = Reverse beat.
Doing ANY NORMAL (except 5A) (if I'm not mistaken) on block into 5A = reverse beat.
With Hisui for example, a simple sample is to run up and to do 2B on a blocking opponent, then immediately do 5A. It recovers quickly, and tends to be followed with dash throw. That's using reverse beat.
What you're refering to is the fact that you can cancel into any normal after a jab again, block or whiff (though in this case you're specifying it in block strings). That's why some Hisui players will do 6C in a block string, then jump and j.A and then j.C to quickly cover the space to continue her rushdown.
:P
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I see your point about it being a variation of Reverse Beat. However from what i understand, Reverse Beats are only counted as Reverse Beats if they connect. This type of canceling i am trying to point out doesn't end up connecting, and yet players do use it in gameplay. Therefore, does whiffing A's in this manner really count as "Reverse Beat"?
If it doesnt, then what should it be called?
Just something to think about. :P
Also, ill definitely make mention of Reverse beats the second round of this thing.
No, you're seriously just talking about reverse beats Numakie.
Doing 2ABC into 5A on block = Reverse beat.
Doing 2C into 5A on block = Reverse beat.
Doing ANY NORMAL (except 5A) (if I'm not mistaken) on block into 5A = reverse beat.
With Hisui for example, a simple sample is to run up and to do 2B on a blocking opponent, then immediately do 5A. It recovers quickly, and tends to be followed with dash throw. That's using reverse beat.
What you're refering to is the fact that you can cancel into any normal after a jab again, block or whiff (though in this case you're specifying it in block strings). That's why some Hisui players will do 6C in a block string, then jump and j.A and then j.C to quickly cover the space to continue her rushdown.
:P
Self Pwnd :slowpoke:
Thanks for the correction. :D
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Uhm... Actually, the term I was accustomed to was, "Whiff Cancel", back when I used Shiki. The point of it, is to "whiff" your standing A, so the string you were using is now "cancelled"(Heh, see, get where the terminology comes from) so you can now use moves you already used in your block string again.
The reverse beat happens if the 5A actually connects, and then its no longer a whiff cancel anymore because you didn't whiff.
Which brings me to another point. If the person(whether due to standing while blocking, or dumb luck) happens to block the "jab cancel"(whiff cancel, whatever), you now no longer can use the 5A to cancel, and also your blockstring isn't canceled, therefore you have to stop there. May have been said millions of times in the 2 minutes it took me to post this, but I don't care.
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Alrighty, Changed the title just now. ill need to do more revisions with this thread when i have time. (at work atm :toot: )
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Reverse Beat: Chaining from ANY normal into a "lighter/weaker/etc" normal. 5c to 5b to 5a. 6b 2a is reverse beat. 2c5b is a reverse beat. Reverse beat is not limited to just A attacks! As a result of doing a reverse beat, there's a reverse beat penalty of 22.5% proration the first time and another 22.5% the 2nd to max of 55% by the third time. So that's 22.5 -> 45.1 -> 55%. There are probably some exceptions that I can't think off the top of my head at the moment. Like WRen's 623a when chained into any normal is a Reverse Beat. For whatever reason WRen's 4b seems immune to reverse beat penalty.
Whiff Cancel: As Nam basically said. Doing a chain and then ending with an A is a whiff cancel. Can be done by any attack really but A's are universally the best.
No one has used this term yet but I'll include it too.
Whiff Chain: This can only be done with A attacks as they're the only ones with the Free Cancel property in their recovery. Basically you do a whiff cancel string but instead of letting the A finish you cancel the recovery into another move and continue the chain. An example would be like Akiha 2aa5ca (whiff) 2c5bb air combo. As this is a chain after the 5a you cannot use 5c again as it has already been used.
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Gotta go with Lina on this. What is being described by the OP is just whiff cancelling.
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But whiff canceling is still reverse beat, yes?
Shouldn't we continue to keep it as rb?
:P
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whiff canceling is a more universal term in fighting games, it would be better to use than reverse beat. Reverse Beat is during a combo when you change to a weaker attack as linalys said. A reverse beat would be like V Akiha's 2a2a 2c 5bb getting the reverse beat on the 5bb. If you say it like that, people could get confused with that you're talking about, and as I said, Whiff canceling a weak attack is pretty universal throughout fighting games.
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But whiff canceling is still reverse beat, yes?
Shouldn't we continue to keep it as rb?
:P
No, its still whiff canceling. Just because you want it to be true doesn't mean it is.
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Reverse beat applies to many different situations, not just whiff canceling. This is whiff canceling.
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all in all using A is whiff canceling with reverse beat property, but we shall keep it as whiff canceling since its easier to imagine and easier to understand.. end of story.. though we are not denying the reverse beat fact :V
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Actually if you want to be technical, canceling a whiff (ie an empty 5A into 5B / 5C or shield) would be better off with that term. Ie you're canceling whiffs.
Simply using reverse beat in a block into 5A doesn't really constitute as a whiff cancel, but then I'm not Zaelar so I won't really anal about it any further.
Anything's better then JAB CANCELING.
:emo:
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Actually if you want to be technical, canceling a whiff (ie an empty 5A into 5B / 5C or shield) would be better off with that term. Ie you're canceling whiffs.
Simply using reverse beat in a block into 5A doesn't really constitute as a whiff cancel, but then I'm not Zaelar so I won't really anal about it any further.
Anything's better then JAB CANCELING.
:emo:
Agreed.
But still, its a whiff cancel. I think you misunderstand the usage. Whiff cancels were primarily used to cancel the move you are using with a whiffed 5A. The cancel is for A.) Giving you a better frame advantage because generally a whiffed 5A probably recovers faster than whatever move you just canceled. And B.) Break your blockstring, allowing you to use moves that were already blocked again.
I hope this helps.
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You're not whiffing a 5A. You're using reverse beat to reduce the recovery of your other normals in the block string before the 5A.
:P
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Alot of good arguments coming from here. However, Zaido does say this in the simpliest manner.
all in all using A is whiff canceling with reverse beat property, but we shall keep it as whiff canceling since its easier to imagine and easier to understand.. end of story.. though we are not denying the reverse beat fact :V
And as for calling it either "Reverse Beat" or "Whiff canceling" Rei explains it best.
whiff canceling is a more universal term in fighting games, it would be better to use than reverse beat... If you say... (Reverse Beat)... like that, people could get confused with that you're talking about...
Mind that when I was making this thread, I kept in mind some random person who is interested in the game but doesn't quite know the game specifics. Ticking, for example, is something that any random person wouldn't know unless someone really explained that ticking is a means of trapping the opponent into a throw by means of poke stuns, getting them on wake up, or other means. Otherwise, it would be just throwing the guy. And besides, in this instance, between Reverse Beat and Whiff canceling, a larger percentage of people would know what whiff canceling is. Only we (meaning us who play the game seriously) would understand Reverse Beating.
Therefore, I'll refer to this tactic as "Whiff Canceling", since it is more easily understood to the masses.
Also, i changed the title of the thread and edited the first post accordingly. Thanks for your input.
More updates to this thread when i have the time.
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Actually if you want to be technical, canceling a whiff (ie an empty 5A into 5B / 5C or shield) would be better off with that term. Ie you're canceling whiffs.
This statement is why I included my definition of Whiff Chain. I knew someone would somehow bring it into this discussion. A whiffed 5a into anything is a whiff chain. Whiff Cancel is pretty much just used to describe canceling the recovery of some slow attack into the faster A attack recovery.
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Whoever called 2c(block)5a(whiff) whiff canceling in the first place is an idiot. You are canceling into a whiff, not canceling a whiff. Like Roll canceling, you cancel a roll with a special in cvs2. Having a specific name for this reverse beat is a good idea, but calling it a reverse beat isn't wrong. Its like calling 2a5c a cancel would be wrong because it's a chain; while it is a chain, it is also a cancel; all chains are cancels by definition.
I'd suggest rba and wrba, or just ra/wra, standing for (whiff) reverse beat A. It's to describe ending a chain with an A for faster recovery. It doesn't describe using A's normally in a chain, like for example a combo of 2abc5ab j. whatever wouldn't be called rba.
Calling canceling a whiffed 5a into shield is an excellent example of something to call whiff canceling.
Meh, Chibi pretty much said everything I told him already.
I'm looking forward to telling noobs to start rahing their block strings~
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Actually you're canceling via a whiff, therefore the cancel, is a whiff cancel. Because the whole point of the cancel is the whiff(and if you didn't whiff, it wouldn't be a whiff cancel anymore. See where I'm going with this?).
Anyways, to summarize:
Whiff cancel:Canceling into a fast recovery move(usually 5A) that does NOT hit your opponent, in order to reset the attacks you can use(since you can only use each attack once per combo. So, say, nanaya 2C, whiff 5A, 2C again, but if the 5A did NOT whiff, you couldnt use the second 2C since you already did a 2C in that combo.)
Jab cancel:Canceling a slow recovery move's recovery frames, by canceling into a jab(5A/2A). Since the point is to cancel the recovery frames to make an attack safe, and not necessarily to reset the combo completely, the jab doesn't have to whiff. So, for example, 2C 2A with nanaya, which lets you block immediately after the 2A since it recovers fast. If you just did 2C someone could try to punish the 2C during it's recovery frames, but since you jab canceled with 2A, you can block their punish and punish back.
Reverse Beat:Going backwards in order of attacks in terms of A, B, C. For example, canceling 5C into 5B or 5A are both reverse beats. Canceling 5B into 5A is a reverse beat, canceling 5B into 5C is not. This does not apply to specials(canceling 5C into 236B or 236A would NOT cause a reverse beat). Blocked attacks, and attacks that would hit your opponent, are eligible for reverse beats. That includes attacks that WOULD have hit your opponent, but were canceled before they could(for example, j.C canceled into j.A, but you land before the j.A finishes coming out, making the j.A not hit your opponent. But since it would have, you still get a reverse beat penalty).
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Actually you're canceling via a whiff, therefore the cancel, is a whiff cancel. Because the whole point of the cancel is the whiff(and if you didn't whiff, it wouldn't be a whiff cancel anymore. See where I'm going with this?).
No, you're canceling via REVERSE BEAT, the 5A whiffing is just the result of you not hitting the opponent. Doing 2C5A is still reverse beat. Telling someone to RB a 5A from 2B is a lot easier to understand then telling them to 'whiff or jab cancel' when the latter are two other 'techniques' that simply fall under reverse beats.
That's like calling Hsienko's s.FK in Darkstalkers a whiff cancel, because you end most of your chains that way to keep up your momentum / space and not be stuck there after a block string or to move around after a combo. That's not a whiff cancel at all, it's simply a way to use the chains in DS to her advantage. The same can be said here for doing 5A from 2C or 2B or whatever. It's using RB's to your advantage.
Here, Lei-lei's does it at 0:12 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJDF7A3sUZs
:P
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how about instead of calling it whiff cancel or jab cancel, let's just call it whiff reset. reverse beat can be just for combo's. :blah:
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It's canceled via a chain. It also being a reverse beat is a coincidence. Just because it is a reverse beat doesn't mean there can't be another name to describe this specific situation of a reverse beat.
Reverse beats don't have to connect at all. They can also be a special canceled into a normal.
Chain = A normal canceled into a normal.
Reverse beat = A stronger strength move canceled into a weaker one, strength in order of strongest to weakest: Special, C, B, A.(some other parts to this, but this covers most of them).
In MB as long as you keep canceling *any* attacks you can't do the same move twice. You need to completely recover to do a move again, and this applies to every move, not just normals. I suggest using the term Cancel Chain to describe this behavior. I think there might be a couple moves that are exempt from this but I might be imagining things.
Jab cancel:Canceling a slow recovery move's recovery frames, by canceling into a jab(5A/2A). Since the point is to cancel the recovery frames to make an attack safe, and not necessarily to reset the combo completely, the jab doesn't have to whiff. So, for example, 2C 2A with nanaya, which lets you block immediately after the 2A since it recovers fast. If you just did 2C someone could try to punish the 2C during it's recovery frames, but since you jab canceled with 2A, you can block their punish and punish back.
While the jab doesn't have to whiff, it can. This is fine.
Whiff cancel:Canceling into a fast recovery move(usually 5A) that does NOT hit your opponent, in order to reset the attacks you can use(since you can only use each attack once per combo. So, say, nanaya 2C, whiff 5A, 2C again, but if the 5A did NOT whiff, you couldnt use the second 2C since you already did a 2C in that combo.)
Many things wrong. Firstly, the name whiff cancel implies the canceling of a whiff, which is not happening. Second, you don't need to whiff a move to reset a chain. You could do 2c5a, 2c for 3 hits, assuming there is enough hit stun and positioning is good(which it isn't in this example, but there are some out there, I believe Len has one). Third, even if the 5a whiffs, it is still cancelable and can continue the chain.
The Leilei example in Chibi's link is the exact same thing as a Jab cancel...except it wasn't with a jab. Same idea, same strategy, just a different button.
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Jab cancel:Canceling a slow recovery move's recovery frames, by canceling into a jab(5A/2A). Since the point is to cancel the recovery frames to make an attack safe, and not necessarily to reset the combo completely, the jab doesn't have to whiff. So, for example, 2C 2A with nanaya, which lets you block immediately after the 2A since it recovers fast. If you just did 2C someone could try to punish the 2C during it's recovery frames, but since you jab canceled with 2A, you can block their punish and punish back.
While the jab doesn't have to whiff, it can. This is fine.
Yes, I realize that. My point was that it can whiff, or not whiff, and whether it does or not doesnt change it being a jab cancel.
Whiff cancel:Canceling into a fast recovery move(usually 5A) that does NOT hit your opponent, in order to reset the attacks you can use(since you can only use each attack once per combo. So, say, nanaya 2C, whiff 5A, 2C again, but if the 5A did NOT whiff, you couldnt use the second 2C since you already did a 2C in that combo.)
Many things wrong. Firstly, the name whiff cancel implies the canceling of a whiff, which is not happening. Second, you don't need to whiff a move to reset a chain. You could do 2c5a, 2c for 3 hits, assuming there is enough hit stun and positioning is good(which it isn't in this example, but there are some out there, I believe Len has one). Third, even if the 5a whiffs, it is still cancelable and can continue the chain.
The Leilei example in Chibi's link is the exact same thing as a Jab cancel...except it wasn't with a jab. Same idea, same strategy, just a different button.
My point was generally the reason someone would whiff cancel would be either to reset the chain(since it recovers the fastest it allows the shortest gap possible between chains), or, also(sorry I forgot to mention this other reason), to reset proration(also resetting the chain, I suppose.)
Mostly I was just pointing out that whiff cancels mean whiffing an attack, and jab cancels mean canceling with a jab, and that reverse beats are a mechanic and not a move. Since people in this thread seem to be often thinking that all 3 of the above are exactly the same thing(which they are most certainly not, though a whiff cancel is generally both a jab cancel and a reverse beat, the opposite is not also necessarily true).
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In MB as long as you keep canceling *any* attacks you can't do the same move twice.
......
Second, you don't need to whiff a move to reset a chain. You could do 2c5a, 2c for 3 hits, assuming there is enough hit stun and positioning is good(which it isn't in this example, but there are some out there, I believe Len has one). Third, even if the 5a whiffs, it is still cancelable and can continue the chain.
Huh? You can't use the same move twice, but you can do 2c 5a 2c for a 3 hit combo?
Could you possibly mean 2a 5a 2a?
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Huh? You can't use the same move twice, but you can do 2c 5a 2c for a 3 hit combo?
Could you possibly mean 2a 5a 2a?
2c5a, 2c: Means you LINK a 2c after the 5a, it isn't a cancel(/chain). I can't think of anyone who can actually make this combo, but you can do this on block. Its the same concept as 2c5a wait 30 seconds then do another 2c.
My point was generally the reason someone would whiff cancel would be either to reset the chain(since it recovers the fastest it allows the shortest gap possible between chains), or, also(sorry I forgot to mention this other reason), to reset proration(also resetting the chain, I suppose.)
Whiffing a move doesn't do either. You could whiff a move to reset a chain, but it isn't necessary as in the previous example I gave. Reverse beat causes proration, and I have no idea what made you think this would reset it. The term is usually used in the context of what you call jab canceling, it is just to shorten recovery. The term whiff canceling is a horrible name and should be discarded, at least for this purpose. Whiff canceling should be used to describe A's being canceled on whiff, if even that as it isn't necessary.
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Because "Reverse Beat" occurs even on a whiff (and the subsequent penalty thereof), I say it's still considered a Reverse Beat. Done inside a combo without breaking the chain is mostly for combo purposes only, whereas done outside a combo has tactical ramifications, which is what's being discussed here.
PS: The only Whiff Cancel that I'm aware of is Ciel's EX flash kick -> another EX. This is important if the EX flash kick is shielded or dodged.
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Ciel's j. 236c is also cancelable on whiff after landing(unless it was removed, its mostly useless and I haven't tested it in b2 yet). I think it was featured in a video somewhere. There are a lot of moves cancelable on whiff, like non-standard chains(like Ciel's 5cc, 2cc, etc.) as well as standard A attacks. Just to save Chibi a post Hisui's 623b is cancelable into 623c on whiff as well.
We have been getting a tad off topic, so lets refine what we are talking about as: Chaining a move with longer recovery into one with less recovery to make it safer. Most of the time this is done with 5a but it can be done with other normals as well. This will almost always incur a reverse beat, but isn't a requirement. The move(s) can either whiff, be blocked, or hit.
Examples of what is:
(all examples can have anything before it, whether it be a 100 move block string or nothing at all)
2c5a, Using the 5a to shorten the recovery on this string.
2c5b, Same thing, only using a 5b instead of 5a.
2a5b, Same thing, only using the 5b to shorten recovery on the 2a.(obviously no actual in game examples where this would be used, but if it could this would fit the description)
All three can have either move whiff, block, or hit.
Examples of what is not:
2c5a5c, Standard reverse beat chain followed by another move in the chain.
2c5a, 2c, a combo. The 5a(whiffed) is used to shorten the recovery of 2c so you can combo a second one. Shortening recovery for combo purposes isn't included in this(although it could be changed to be included). If the 5a doesn't whiff it is just a standard link combo with some unrelated technical workings.
2c, 5a. This is just a 2c linked into a 5a, no canceling is being done.
2c5a, the 2c is canceled late into a whiff 5a, to the point where 5a's total frames are greater than the remaining frames of the 2c.(IE if 2c will recovery in 5 frames, at which point you cancel into 5a(whiff) which takes 10 frames, you are putting yourself into 5 extra frames of recovery)
2c5ad, The 5a(whiff) cancels the recovery of 2c, which may be one, but the 5a is then canceled into a shield, which while may make it safer against some things, doesn't fit the description. If the shield was done in reaction to something then the 5a is still one.
As for names, whiff canceling is out. Whiffing something has nothing to do with anything, it is just something that could happen. Jab canceling, while I don't like it, is at least somewhat appropriate. Something that focuses on the recovery aspect is what we're looking for, and jabs are typically good with recovery. My original suggestion of reverse beat a's doesn't work with this.
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Its always been called whiff cancelling, let's keep calling it whiff cancelling.
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It's a linguistics issue.
Whiff is the noun.
Cancel is the verb.
The verb acts on the noun, so cancel the whiff.
It may also be argued that:
Whiff is a verb.
Cancel is a noun.
In this case, the cancel is a whiff.
Generally, in English, the noun comes before the verb, so readers will typically take the former definition rather than the latter.
My suggestion is to call it "Whiffed Cancel." Then there is no confusion as to which word is the verb, which word is the noun.
If you take it as it is in the title, "Whiff Canceling," then it will certainly imply that you are canceling the whiff.
"Whiffing Cancel" is too cumbersome, so I won't suggest it
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Whiffing the move has nothing to do with it. The point is to cancel recovery of a punishable move into a nonpunishable one, whether it whiffs or not is irrelevant.
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Good point.
In other words, it really doesn't matter if 5A hits, misses or is blocked, you still get your recovery time reduced