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Author Topic: Throws?  (Read 9285 times)

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Offline ikeTATARI

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Throws?
« on: July 22, 2010, 06:48:47 PM »
So maybe this is a stupid question, but throws suck, right?

I'm continuously getting thrown out of normals on the ground, and I can't figure out if it's input lag from my controller (using a wireless one right now) meaning I don't get the normal out before the throw, or if they just beefed throws up significantly.

Luckily for me I'm thinking of getting a stick soon, so it shouldn't be a problem for too much longer, but I want to know if I should be raging at the game or at the controller, or if maybe some properties changed between AC and AA?

Also, when I say normals, I mean moves like Len's 5A or 5B or Sacchin's 5B, not a really slow move like a charged normal or something. Getting thrown out of those doesn't really surprise me as they don't have any active frames to hit someone out of a throw attempt. :P

Offline ehrik

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2010, 07:25:12 PM »
iirc throws are exactly the same and roughly 3f startup, you aren't putting your normal out fast enough, it isn't the controller's fault, stick won't solve your problems
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Offline Tempered

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2010, 07:29:01 PM »
Throws are 3f in AA, and you're not throw invulnerable during moves either, so if timed right in a string its possible to be thrown out of a move. MOST throws are considered sucky because all you get is a meh knockdown off it. Characters like Vsion and Miyako are pretty centric off their throw game because they can land decent damage as well as oki off it.
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Offline ikeTATARI

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2010, 08:22:52 PM »
iirc throws are exactly the same and roughly 3f startup, you aren't putting your normal out fast enough, it isn't the controller's fault, stick won't solve your problems

If throws come out at 3F and I have input lag with my controller making my normal come off a few frames late it will. Especially because a few frame input lag doesn't really bother me during combos, but it may if I'm, say, dashing in after a 5A whiff and throwing out a quick normal and it comes out a few frames late. =D

But thank you for the definitive data on it.

Offline Zaelar

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 02:59:33 AM »
Lag would only hurt you if you're trying to react to the throw or if you're waiting for a sound/visual cue to press a button after your dash.  If you time your button based on when you input your dash lag wouldn't matter.  Try pressing your button sooner in anticipation of the lag.

Offline Ultima66

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 04:25:31 AM »
Throws are comparatively worse in MB than in other fighting games. Street Fighter throws are much more rewarding and beats a lot more random stuff. That said, they're still 3f startup moves, so they will beat things slower than them.

The problem with throws in MB is that they usually don't lead to anything, don't do much damage, and have very low range.

Offline Alfonse

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 06:56:53 AM »
Miyako's throw is equivalent to SF3 Makoto's karakusa, it's one of the only (possibly only?) MB throws that sets your opponent up for the incoming pain train you're doing to dish out on them. However, there's no kara throwing in MB, so landing it is another story.  :mystery:
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Offline Irysa

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2010, 08:42:16 AM »
Quote
However, there's no kara throwing in MB

not technically true.

you used to (not sure if it still applies) be able to "kara" from shield into throw!
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Offline Kusanagi

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2010, 09:29:51 AM »
Throws do not suck, you guys forget you get Oki off some throws, which some times is better than raw dmg  :V
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Offline Pfhor

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2010, 12:02:55 AM »
Kusanagi with truth.

It's a myth that throws suck in MBAA, even compared to other fighting games.

However, normal 4/6E throws are AWFUL on defense, despite their speed. To get hit by a throw, your character's collision box must be touching theirs, so even if they do happen to mistime a meaty 2a, they have to be right in your face for your defensive throw to land. You shouldn't be mistiming your meaty anyway, but you can avoid getting hit by a defensive throw by positioning yourself just a few pixels away from their collision box, the throw will whiff, and they get BLOWN UP.

Command throws are a bit different, they grab your normal (fatter) hitbox instead of the collision box. So a fast command throw such as Kohaku's or Kouma's could grab you while your hitbox is still extended from your mistimed meaty attack. Their defensive use is still gimmicky shit, but far better than normal throws.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 12:18:53 AM by Pfhor »

Offline DJcream

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2010, 12:29:08 AM »
Quote
However, there's no kara throwing in MB

not technically true.

you used to (not sure if it still applies) be able to "kara" from shield into throw!
If you mean Bara-canceling (where you cancel your shield bunker into a command like EX watever or throw), that's been taken out of MBAA.

But if you mean to cancel a successful shield into a throw, you can do it but most characters have better options.
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Offline caiooa

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2010, 09:26:54 AM »
Command throws are a bit different, they grab your normal (fatter) hitbox instead of the collision box. So a fast command throw such as Kohaku's or Kouma's could grab you while your hitbox is still extended from your mistimed meaty attack. Their defensive use is still gimmicky shit, but far better than normal throws.
what about sachin's comand trow? (623b was painly good and easy to put in the midle of bnbs in mbac, but i don't know too much about mbaa...)
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Offline Numakie

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2010, 05:20:37 PM »
In my experience, throws are only really good to mix in when you can get your opponent to "respect" your blockstrings. (repsect meaning they will just keep blocking). Normal throws will be beaten by mashed 2A's and can be escaped by jumping.

If a character has a unique proximity/timed projectile or mine, (Ex: Hisui's bento's, Aoko's orbs, Kohaku's spinning plant, That damn FAkiha ribbon to AD setup ><) throws can be used to take advantage of an opponent's fear of getting hit.

If your character has a running dash, you can interrupt your dash to a throw.  (I do it often when i play with my Hisui ;D)  The input kinda looks like 66A+D or 66E.   FKouma (and maybe other characters with a 214 throw) also has something similar where you dash and do his Command 214A throw or his EX dunk. The command kinda looks looks like 663214+A or 663214+C.

That's all i can think of for now...
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Offline Irysa

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2010, 02:52:35 AM »
Quote
However, there's no kara throwing in MB

not technically true.

you used to (not sure if it still applies) be able to "kara" from shield into throw!
If you mean Bara-canceling (where you cancel your shield bunker into a command like EX watever or throw), that's been taken out of MBAA.

But if you mean to cancel a successful shield into a throw, you can do it but most characters have better options.

No

you could cancel a shield whiff into throw in earlier versions of MBAA.

The first frame of the shield whiff.
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2010, 06:31:17 AM »
You can still do it in PS2 ver. C.Sakiha actually happens to have a use for it too:

Shielding over 22x pits triggers it to go off. Use 4/6[D]~A or D~E to set the pit off and go for throw at the same time (result being to go for/land throw attempt as pit goes off).

There's no other way to do this other than using kara cancel.
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Offline S-Blade

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 10:01:00 AM »
Pfhor + Numakie pretty much hit it 100%.

And yeah, the risk/reward for throws in this game is a lot worse than some other games. Pfhor already pointed out how ass defensive throws are at landing, and Numakie pointed out how you only really do it once you're confident they'll block, which if you've played any other fighting games like sf4 is very opposite to this game--SF4 gives you a low-damage-strong-knockdown or get teched or jumped to lose momentum, MB gives you low-damage-maybe-knockdown or get comboed for 30-40%.

In other words, you shouldn't be avoiding throws as much as you can, although if you did, you wouldn't be suffering massively, but if you played the game of throw-just-because-it-might-work which works better than it should in SF, you are going to get blown up so fucking fast in MB it isn't even fucking funny.
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Offline Alfonse

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Re: Throws?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 02:40:56 AM »
Quote
However, there's no kara throwing in MB

not technically true.

you used to (not sure if it still applies) be able to "kara" from shield into throw!

Miyako's reach is far too short even if you could do a version of her "LK into karakusa".  :mystery:
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