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Author Topic: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?  (Read 6617 times)

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Offline Zerve0

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Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« on: August 31, 2007, 01:58:49 PM »
Hi, I'm new and I'm pretty bad at MB :(. Reading up and watching a few videos, I noticed that most of the BnB combos that I've seen end with an air throw. Would anyone care to explain as to why throw instead of doing something else? ??? I've experimented with a few combos and found better damage alternatives.

The characters that I'm playing now are Arcueid and Red Arc, and for both of them, I've noticed that there's more damaging options then just air throwing. All of these combos are tested on Akiha, MBAC verB with the 1.03 patch, and critical hits turned off. Also, both of these combos work at any screen location.

Arc: (both Arc and Red Arc's j.b are one hit)
3010 Damage = 2b > 2c > 3b > j.a > j.b > j.c > j.a > j.b > j.c > 22b > 66b
2871 Damage = 2b > 2c > 3b > j.a > j.b > j.c > j.a > j.b > j.c > air throw

Red Arc:
3763 Damage = 2b > 3c > j.a > j.b > j.c > j.a > j.b > j.c > j.2c (+laugh  ;D)
3539 Damage = 2b > 3c > j.a > j.b > j.c > j.a > j.b > j.c > air throw

As you can see, damage wise, the non-throw combos are a better choice. I realize that with the Red Arc combo it's much harder to time, but it seems very reasonable that some top players should be able to nail it every time. Most of these combos aren't the best combos (like Arc's 2c > 5c super jump thing) but I'm still learning, and they are all that I can do with a high success rate.

The possible reasons why I think that air throwing would be better is because it's much easier to connect, and it allows you to choose the side that you throw the opponent into. Other then that, I can't think of any more reasons.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Forgot to mention about some throws allowing you to re-launch and juggle afterwards, such as in one of Len's EX ice spear combo (although I don't know the combo). I should really learn the proper names.  :(

Edit2: Just noticed that in the Arc combo ending with 66b, your opponent seems to be able to recover (from mashing) before you land, does this mean that they could punish the combo?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 02:07:11 PM by Zerve0 »

Offline KomagPHL

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2007, 02:25:37 PM »
if you air throw at the end of a combo, you will be in control of the current situation. you basically have the upper hand since your opponent is just waking up and you can do whatever you wish (tick throw, 50/50 mixup, etc.) any okizeme you wish to do is at your disposal during this time. prime example would be ciel and her various amounts of mixups from an air throw.

if you want more damage, you can do that if you want. one case would be if the combo you are doing is enough to kill your opponent at that time. it's all pretty situational.

Offline magz

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2007, 02:54:18 PM »
Just like KomagPHL explained earlier but summarized into two words:

Knock Down

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Offline Kryojenix

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2007, 03:06:30 PM »
First off...the numbers look a little odd for WArc (don't know anything about Arc).  Who were you testing on?
Second.  Throwing allows for a longer combo.  If you want to fit in all the hits of the j.2c, you're going to have to cut the combo short.  The throw actually does allow for more damage as well as the knockdown
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2007, 03:08:52 PM »
MB is a game about momentum, knowing when to use it and abuse it.

Not EVERY combo in the game ends with air throw, but they almost always end in a knockdown. You want to keep the momentum going. You want to get into your opponent's head and stay there. If you don't end up knocking your opponent down with a combo the situation resets, which is good for them, and obviously bad for you. This gives them a chance to throw their momentum onto you, and that's obviously not what you want.

Like with Red Arc, you can do her typical BnB in the corner for more damage (which includes the air throw) or you can not do the second half of the BnB in the air and end with ex blood ring. It does less damage (I believe), but leads to OTG damage, and tech punishing opportunities. There are other examples of course ;p.

But yeah, if you're in the air and got a combo going, end with an air throw more or less, dependant on your character ;p.
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Offline Qaenyin

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2007, 04:32:51 PM »
Because you can't tech out of an air throw, and you land before your opponent can recover if you end with an air throw, allowing you the most options on wakeup and the most ability to corner your opponent and keep them cornered.  Though if a character has another untechable air combo ender then you can end with those for other uses depending on the situation(Nero landing after a j.C in order to use a deer summon instead of using an airthrow at the end of a combo, for example, in order to setup a pressure game in advance).

Offline Zerve0

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2007, 06:05:31 AM »
I've also tried some other variations ending with throws, the most damaging I came up with was 3758, the difference is that you use the two hits of j.b. But with this, Ive found a more damaging combo ending in j.2c. 3849 damage is possible if you leave out the j.a's and use the two hits of j.b, but this is also a lot harder to do.

First off...the numbers look a little odd for WArc (don't know anything about Arc).  Who were you testing on?
Second.  Throwing allows for a longer combo.  If you want to fit in all the hits of the j.2c, you're going to have to cut the combo short.  The throw actually does allow for more damage as well as the knockdown

I'm sure that these numbers are correct, as I was in training mode while I was writing the post, they are on MBAC 1.03 against Akiha. As for the j.2c, it is very possible to get ALL of the hits to connect. Maybe you are using the two hits for j.b (I'm only using one), or you aren't doing it fast enough? Very rarely does the opponent 'slip out' of my j.2c's now, ending with the knockdown. The last hit is also untechable I believe.


Using it midscreen isn't useful as people have pointed out, because it drops them too far. But after I have the opponent cornered, would using the Warc's j.2c as a finish be another option than throwing?  Ending with j.2c seems to give me enough time to pressure them further. I could either dash in and throw, or 2b, or IAD j.B, allowing me to do the combo again. I understand the whole momentum thing, but I don't know why you should give up some extra damage. Does throwing give you so many more options (other then the ones I mentioned) that I am not aware of yet?

Thanks for the replies, and sorry for keeping it somewhat character specific.  :(

Offline ikusat

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2007, 08:04:34 AM »
This is an excellent question!

A general answer to your first general question, along with the responses above, is that an airthrow ender is better for momentum most of the time, but there is always a more damaging alternative.  However, you want to airthow unless you have a very specific reason to use another air combo ender.  "200 more damage" usually is not a good enough reason to.  A few example reasons are:
1. That 200 more damage will win the round for me.
2. This ender will set up a tech punish
3.  This ender I am using will waste enough time to run out the opponent's HEAT bar
4. I am using Mech Hisui  :V

Now for your more specific j2c quesiton with Warc: Yes, in the corner, as long as you can learn the timing, j2c ender is may be worthwhile.  It does deal a little more damage as well as give around 30% more meter.  As far as I can tell though, it's actually slightlly worse for momentum, but the extra damage and meter is a pretty good tradeoff.

I'd suggest optimizing the rest of your combo before worrying about the ender though.  First off, a good start is 2a 2b 2c 5c jb(2 hits) jc djb(2 hits) jc throw.  You need to delay the 2c after the 2b a little bit, but this is the standard warc combo to my knowledge.  Feel free to peruse the Warc subforum here and ask about her for more specific information though, as I'm not a Warc expert.

Offline Choco

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Re: Why Air Throw at the end of combos?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2007, 03:10:11 AM »
Wow. I remember asking this exact question (without examples) on the Shoryuken forums back before MeltyBread was made... I learned well!  :teach: