Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Actress Again => Hisui => : Sphyra September 01, 2009, 11:28:02 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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C-Hisui Combo thread. For C-Hisui, the good Hisui. I'm covering both the old from MBAC and the new cool stuff she can do since MBAA.
Planning to keep mostly what I find useful and applicable in real matches, no combo video shit. Ikusat can make his own thread. Also not going to bother with baby combos for the execution impaired.
I'm also not going to be adding damage as it varies quite a bit, but Hisui's full combos all do fairly consistent damage around 4k.
These are also all fairly bare bone. Fitting as many 2A as the game allows before most of these combos is possible.
Tech Punish
Neutral and No Tech: 5A2C 623A 22A
Forward and Back Tech: 2B > whatever
2B2C5C6C [j.BC dj.BC Airthrow] or [j.BC dj.CBB Tech Punish]
Hisui's most basic combo. Beginners begin here (preferably with airthrows).
The secret to tech punish spacing is in the jump directions you use. Two forward jumps when you're a little more than half screen distance from the corner, a neutral jump then a forward jump when you're a little less than half screen, forward then neutral when you're close to the corner. Super double jumps can help you carry them longer distances.
Tech punish variant is almost always superior, so we use airthrow mostly when it's not possible to get them in the corner with correct spacing.
2B2C5C6C j.BC airdash dj.AC Airthrow
This is a variant of the first BNB with one specific purpose which is to cross under them during the air combo to allow for a following crossup.
Example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjYCL09vL_s#t=5m21s
Doesn't work if they ground tech after the airthrow.
2B5C2C6C [j.C airdash j.C dj.BC Airthrow] or [j.C airdash j.C dj.ACBB Tech Punish]
Used mostly when you've expired your use of 5C already. Damage is slightly better also.
2B5C2C6B j.[C]AB land [j.BC dj.BC Airthrow] or [j.BC dj.CBB Tech Punish] or [j.BC sdj.AAABB Tech Punish]
Even more damage on this one although a little harder to do. The sdj.AAABB tech punish variant can be used to carry them to the other corner from full screen distance, very interesting follow up if you tag them with 2B after they teched forward from a previous tech punish as it resets them into the same situation.
2B2C6C j.C airdash j.B..B236B land (neutral)j.AAC..BB236B land 236A236A 22C
Corner combo. Yayayayaya x2, MBAA's most hype combo. Also probably C-Hisui's hardest practical combo.
There's a few tricky parts to this one, most notable being the delays necessary (indicated as ..). Also the 236A236A at the end must be done very quickly or the 22C bento will be too far offscreen to have any effect.
There are some alternatives to this, such as different delay points or using j.236A instead of j.236B, but I've found this input method to give the most consistent results. Experiment if you must.
2B 5C 2C 6C j.C airdash j.BB236A j.AAC dj.ACBB
Yayayaya that doesn't need a corner, for when you just can't get enough of stabbing a Obama with a spoon. Big delay on the second B in the j.BB before the j.236A, you want to be as close to the ground as possible for it.
Credit to CT_Warrior
6C6[C]236C 5A j.C airdash j.BB236B land (neutral)j.AACBB236B land 236A236A 22C
Corner overhead frying pan combo. More fun ways to go into j.236 combo. 5A j.C timing is strict.
x...623C dash 5B2B5C2C 623A
Corner combo. If you find yourself too far away from them to properly finish a combo into 2C > Aircombo you can use this instead.
j.236B land 2B/2C...x
With jump 236 becoming a decent zoning tool you might find yourself in situations where you actually hit them with it. 2B vs 2C depends on how far away you land from them, hopefully close enough for 2B to connect as the link to 2C is hard as fuck. Follow up with your favorite combo.
j.236B j.236C land 5B 6C > aircombo
If you have meter this makes it easier to combo.
Air counterhit follow up: 2C > whatever.
Guard Break: 5A 6C > aircombo
OTG: 2B 5AAAB 2C [623C] or [22A] or [Whiff 2A]
Basic OTG with some options at the end. 623C keeps them stuck while you're free to do anything, at the cost of meter. 22A if you know they won't tech cause if they do you're in trouble. Whiff 2A and punish if they tech.
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Would you say that it's easier to tech punish / set up / follow up in this game then MBAC or harder?
To be honest I never fully got the hang of it in MBAC, and I'm curious as to what you think.
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I don't know about easier or harder but the 5A2C timing is different, it feels like you need to do it slightly later. Nothing one can't adapt to with practice though. Some combos you need to delay the second j.B to let yourself fall down a bit while letting them gain height to properly tech punish. Also 5A2C 623A 22A is obviously harder considering you're adding an extra input, but if anyone really struggles with that it's possible to just go back to skipping the 623A, I don't think you'd be losing much.
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2B 5C (one-hit) 2C 6C jC ad jBB j236A jAAC djACBB works midscreen.
So you guys should learn the j236A variant rather than the j236B one for the sake of being able to do it full/midscreen.
I don't believe it's necessary for you to do the jAACBB j236B 236A236A variant if you don't want to. I love having a tech punishing opportunity even at the risk of losing pressure or potential oki buffs (and I use kohaku summons). You also have the option of using the meter for something else or using the 6B relaunch to add extra damage if you use the djACBB ender.
The new easy-mode aircombo can be slightly improved to jBC djABC as well.
We need some new OTG strings!
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Go back to the kohahisui forums omg!
Added your combo, anything with j.236 in it is magical. Still find using j.236B as the first j.236 over j.236A in the double yayayaya combo is better, it feels like it makes the following j.AACBB236B easier. Also 236A236A 22C ender is no joke, super bento is srsbento. Hisui had a serious case of nothing good to spend meter on back in MBAC anyway, other than trolling people in the corner with 623C x3 or AD.
Added basic OTG string I used in MBAC, or something similar anyway. Might be better options in MBAA now though.
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2B2C6C j.C airdash j.B..B236B land (neutral) [5B6B (2b) j.BC. djBC airthrow]
Just played with a variant of the yayaya combo where i replaced the j.AACBB with a 6B launcher 2A whiff combo instead. A little easier to do imo but not as hype.
:toot:
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That's a good string. It's like the higher damage version of my string for the corner.
I tweaked it slightly because if you add 5B, it does slightly more damage, but it's too inconsistent imo.
Meterless string:
2C 6C jC ad jBB j236B 6B (2A) jBC djCBB (4003 damage versus VSion)
Meter string:
2C 6C jC ad jBB j236B jAACBB j236B 236A236A22C (3950 damage versus VSion)
To-finishoff string:
2C 6C jC ad jBB j236B jAACBB j236B 6B (2A) jBC djBC at
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The untechable knockdown into super bento is really what I find to be the point of the combo though. I think 2C6B j.[C]AB combos net you about as much damage as anything else you can come up with, and is much more simple on execution.
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You're wrong! j236X is the real point of the combo.
But..
2C 6B j[C]AB jBC djCBB did about 3600 damage versus VSion.
EDIT: And has one more reverse beat penalty.
400 extra damage isn't bad for a bit more flash and execution to go with it.
Plus, the more extra moves you add to the beginning of the combo, the less damage it does versus the j236 combos.
Misc flashy but unoptimal combo:
2C 6B j[C]ABB j236A jAAC djABC airthrow did 4000 damage versus VSion.
Looks pretty flashy, but not as good on damage. :[
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I started to use '2x yayaya' combo against my friend who uses miyako.
my basic starter string for ground combo's is 2AB 5C 2C 6B j...
i had difficulty linking her j.C after her 6b frying pan launcher because the table would completely whiff over miyako.
an alternative that i found that worked for her (and probably for other smaller characters) is to add a j.A to the combo.
so it basically it looks like this: 2AB 5C 2C 6C j.AC Airdash j.BB yayaya.... an so forth.
also on another note: the yayaya combo makes a good jBB no tech punish follow up. :toot:
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Yayaya combos are all fine and good, but what about the base j.BB corner combos? I've noticed that Jin will vary his j.BB combos for what I can only assume to be character specifics and/or gravity. Does anyone have insight on this or do I have to do some testing?
Also, back in the AC days, Sphyra made an extremely useful post about spacing j.BB anywhere on screen to take the opponent to the corner. Anyone have info similar to that for AA? If not, I'll do some testing on that too.
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i always thought it just came down to freestyling and just paying attention to your position relative to the corner & adding x amount of hits based on w/e u started with for perfect spacing
unless u want like a flowchart or something like that
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That's the way to go when getting random hits into an aerial, but when landing a solid hit confirm on the ground, it'd be nice to have set combos to go into to make sure I get the right positioning.
I also figure that there might be better aerials than the basic j.BC j.CBB when going midscreen to corner. Something that might give better height positioning when hitting the j.BB.
In the end, if my conjecture that gravity does affect the consistency of the 5A2C punish (specifically, whether the 2C will hit right if they don't tech) proves true, it looks like there will need to be ad-libbing anyway, just to get the right amount of hits.
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Your last conjecture is false.
If you add too many hits, you might notice that they airtech right before they hit the ground. If you input 5A2C as fast as possible and have done jBB at the proper spacing relative to the opponent though, the 2C would hit before they could airtech.
As for the jBB thing, you should just find out yourself due to lack of a source. I have a combo that works from one end to midscreen, and three other setups from midscreen to the other end. Not too many combos. It's good to have the 2C 5C 6C launcher variations in case you hitconfirm into it. Those are a bit frustrating though.
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Truthfully I fucking hate learning this tech punish shit. Alot.
*sigh*
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Personally i just like bouncing them ;3
I also don't like doing the jBB to high up in the air... gives ppl too much time to think about recovering. :toot:
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i like 2 freestyle, my hisuis got the sickest skateboard tricks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd1TT8ZvkVc&feature=related
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I think most of what worked back in MBAC still works in MBAA. The biggest difference is the introduction of 2C 6B BnBs which changes some spacings. I wrote down a few strings I've seen Jin use and the corresponding distances.
(http://www.reconpoint.com/uploads/hisuitechpunishmbaa.jpg)
These are all done facing right. Do whatever ground string you want before 2C 6B.
1
2C 6B j.[C]AB land j.BC dj.CABB
As usual the double jump is neutral. I've also seen Jin use dj.AABB sometimes but I'm not sure why.
2
2C 6B j.[C]AB land j.BC dj.ABB
Both jumps forward. Make sure you don't get super double jump (By holding 9 for the double jump if necessary)
3
2C 6B j.[C]AB land j.BC dj.CABB
Both jumps forward, and again no super double jump.
4
2C 6B j.[C]AB land j.BC dj.C airdash j.BB
First jump forward, double jump backward. Leave a slight pause before the second j.B so you can get the correct timing for tech punish.
5
2C 6B j.[C]AB land j.BC sdj.AABB
Both jumps forward, super double jump carries you across the stage. Slight pause before the second j.B again.
For the zone between 1 and 2 I'm not sure what can be done (as far as 2C 6B strings are concerned). Doesn't seem like Jin knows either, he's been airthrowing at that distance.
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I've been using my midscreen yayaya combo for 1 and 2. It doesn't work with all characters though, particularly Ryougi.
Nice info.
Does anyone know why people don't do yayaya combos anymore? I haven't seen one done recently.
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caus theoretically i guess theres more dmg potential behind doing tech punish/relaunch opposed to just 1 absolute answer for dmg
it dont matter to me i just do w/e lol
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Dude, do whatever works for you.
I had this problem with Hisui ages ago, people weren't doing the same shit back in MBAC, and now she's got three moons and they still don't play her the same way even when they're using the same moon.
Maybe that's why Mr. P switched, got bored.
:slowpoke:
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yea i wouldnt worry about other ppl once u are aware of what u can/cant do
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Between areas 1 & 2, 2c 5c 6c combo can be used instead of 2c 6b combo for the proper tech punish spacing, but damage is obviously sacrificed. Give or take I suppose.
There's also 2c 6b j[c] ja jb land jb jc ad. dj. ja jc jbb for further distance.
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Blah, Mr. P switched? I wonder whether that's why Hisui's been dropping in tier. :(
I've been doing whatever works for me. I was just curious.
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lol numakie i like the way u play
u always tryin to hit em extra hard
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I think I figured out why people don't use the yayaya combo with tech punish variation.
If you do 2B and they don't tech, they can airtech and get out for free.
With that, I propose a new tech punish setup: 5B6CC into.. 2AAA for a tech-punish opportunity, or IAD jC for mixup and superior oki.
If they forward tech, then 6C turns into 5C, and you have a braindead hitconfirm into a full 4500+ damaging combo with reset.
This makes me happy because I can get a molotov summon setup two times as often, and with the plant setup, I have four or five chances for a tickthrow.
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With that, I propose a new tech punish setup: 5B6CC into.. 2AAA for a tech-punish opportunity, or IAD jC for mixup and superior oki.
If they forward tech, then 6C turns into 5C, and you have a braindead hitconfirm into a full 4500+ damaging combo with reset.
hmm... can you clarify exacty when you do the 5B6CC?
I'm thinking it would be in the corner as a ...2C>5C>jump>jC>dash>j.BB>236B>land>5B6CC where the 2nd C from the pan would smack em down, unable to tech.. Also i guess the 2aaa would be for OTG'ing them and blatently giving them an extra opportunity to tech, accidentally or otherwise... That's playing in my mind of course without testing at this time...
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2A2B5C2C6C jC ad jB..B j236B 6B 2A jBC djACBB land 5B6CC.
Beats forward/back tech and no tech, though not as well as 5A 2C.
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I just found out last night that her ground 236A/B follow up yayaya smack is empty ex cancellable... So many blockstring possiblities playing in my mind right now... :fap:
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Ex dust in MBAA?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAUZujGf210
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That's like ALMOST practical.
Still awesome.
I want to dream about it happening :(