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Author Topic: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions  (Read 26200 times)

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Offline Inso

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2011, 04:08:40 AM »
What fiendmaw said.

I personally think it would be best if you had something specific you wanted to talk about when analising a certain match, handpicking it or somewhat following a script (which seems you did at first but then switched to random dan'isen). If the way you intend to conduct the "show" is for both newcomers and experienced alike, the more info you give prior to the match and just pinpoint during it (instead of noticing, pausing and going back) the better you can make it flow, without choosing one side over the other. Bottom line, maybe it would help if every session had a theme, although it depends on how much effort you're willing to put into it.

Also... why is the video window smaller than the stream window?  :psyduck:
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Offline Komidol

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2011, 08:10:40 AM »
Roku, please commentate on what's happening in the match and not just deciding every decision that leads to someone getting hit was a shitty one when you're talking about matches between players like Ten and Okaji-yo. 

For Example:

F-Akiha, the character with the highest defense rating in the game, makes a tech from Hisui's air throw while in max.  Her back tech is punished but the player was willing to accept this having the potential to spark or IH afterwards to gain back her health.  He knew she could definitely survive this hit in the worst case scenario, and had the meter, life, and defense to back it up. 

Not:

He got hit again, shitty decision.  This [top Japanese player] Akiha is pretty mediocre.   

If you want to do that please just commentate on American matches.

Thank you. :nyoro:
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 08:31:12 AM by Komidol »
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Offline Tonberry

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2011, 09:47:53 AM »
-63214C cross-up or not is a gimmik block string mix-up. You have to be at extreme close range, or get hit for it to cross-up.

How is that a gimmick?  That just means you use it at close range only so it's ambiguous. 
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2011, 10:05:25 AM »
How is that a gimmick?  That just means you use it at close range only so it's ambiguous. 
I just mean that if she sets it up that way, it will always look like it should cross you up, but it will never actually cross-up. It is a visual trick. It just looks like it should be ambiguous, but if she sets it up with certain moves, 63214C will always behave the same way. Once someone knows what to look for, they can tell when it will and wont cross-up. That's what I meant. I do think it's good, just depends on the opponent.

Offline Pfhor

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2011, 10:15:10 AM »
Roku, please commentate on what's happening in the match and not just deciding every decision that leads to someone getting hit was a shitty one when you're talking about matches between players like Ten and Okaji-yo. 

For Example:

F-Akiha, the character with the highest defense rating in the game, makes a tech from Hisui's air throw while in max.  Her back tech is punished but the player was willing to accept this having the potential to spark or IH afterwards to gain back her health.  He knew she could definitely survive this hit in the worst case scenario, and had the meter, life, and defense to back it up. 

Not:

He got hit again, shitty decision.  This [top Japanese player] Akiha is pretty mediocre.   

If you want to do that please just commentate on American matches.

Thank you. :nyoro:
I'm not putting my weight behind everything Roku said, but if you can actually watch those matches and say that every decision that the akiha player made had a "top level" amount of thought behind it you are fucking stupid. Not every decision that leads to a hit is a bad one, but that akiha definitely was making bad decisions.

Offline Komidol

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2011, 10:24:19 AM »
Roku, please commentate on what's happening in the match and not just deciding every decision that leads to someone getting hit was a shitty one when you're talking about matches between players like Ten and Okaji-yo. 

For Example:

F-Akiha, the character with the highest defense rating in the game, makes a tech from Hisui's air throw while in max.  Her back tech is punished but the player was willing to accept this having the potential to spark or IH afterwards to gain back her health.  He knew she could definitely survive this hit in the worst case scenario, and had the meter, life, and defense to back it up. 

Not:

He got hit again, shitty decision.  This [top Japanese player] Akiha is pretty mediocre.   

If you want to do that please just commentate on American matches.

Thank you. :nyoro:
I'm not putting my weight behind everything Roku said, but if you can actually watch those matches and say that every decision that the akiha player made had a "top level" amount of thought behind it you are fucking stupid. Not every decision that leads to a hit is a bad one, but that akiha definitely was making bad decisions.

I'm not saying it was top level thought, I'm just saying that he was looking at his meter and health bar and made a decision.  A decision that was not necessarily a shitty one.  Sp00ky didn't get where he is today by talking shit about player's choices while streaming.  So I asked if maybe someone wanted to COMMENTATE and not just spout out bullshit and give new players the wrong ideas.

"He made this decision because of this and this, and you can also consider this and this in this matchup."  Not "Look he got hit that was dumb."  Let the viewer decide what they would of done in that situation.  You can do good commentary without talking shit about the players, even if they're bad (which they definitely aren't in this case).  Less shit talk, more commentating.  If you really want it to be something useful to the community, that is.

I thought this thread was about DETAILED ANALYSIS LIVE STREAMING SESSIONS.  Meaning, even if they're not thinking on the highest possible level, you have to be while streaming. 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 10:33:48 AM by Komidol »
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Offline Greg

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2011, 10:35:02 AM »
How is that a gimmick?  That just means you use it at close range only so it's ambiguous. 
I just mean that if she sets it up that way, it will always look like it should cross you up, but it will never actually cross-up. It is a visual trick. It just looks like it should be ambiguous, but if she sets it up with certain moves, 63214C will always behave the same way. Once someone knows what to look for, they can tell when it will and wont cross-up. That's what I meant. I do think it's good, just depends on the opponent.

Oh no.. not this shit again.


If the fact that it wasn't top level didn't matter, why did you even mention it? It obviously meant something. It seemed like to me that you were insinuating that his commentary was ridiculous because it was about a mythical top level Japanese player. I heard they can all play seven instruments and use a language with like five million kanjis.

I don't see how anything Sp00ky did is relevant to what Roku was trying to do with this video.


There was stuff that wasn't perfect and needs to be worked on as far as the commentary goes but it was definitely a decent start.

Is it possible for you to say things that don't come across as snide bullshit?
 
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2011, 10:37:22 AM »
How is that a gimmick?  That just means you use it at close range only so it's ambiguous. 
I just mean that if she sets it up that way, it will always look like it should cross you up, but it will never actually cross-up. It is a visual trick. It just looks like it should be ambiguous, but if she sets it up with certain moves, 63214C will always behave the same way. Once someone knows what to look for, they can tell when it will and wont cross-up. That's what I meant. I do think it's good, just depends on the opponent.

Oh no.. not this shit again.


If the fact that it wasn't top level didn't matter, why did you even mention it? It obviously meant something. It seemed like to me that you were insinuating that his commentary was ridiculous because it was about a mythical top level Japanese player. I heard they can all play seven instruments and use a language with like five million kanjis.

I don't see how anything Sp00ky did is relevant to what Roku was trying to do with this video.


There was stuff that wasn't perfect and needs to be worked on as far as the commentary goes but it was definitely a decent start.

Is it possible for you to say things that don't come across as snide bullshit?

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Offline Pfhor

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2011, 10:38:23 AM »
Komidol, this argument you are making would be a more valid one if you didn't end your first post with "If you want to do that just commentate American matches  :nyoro: :nyoro: :nyoro: :nyoro:"

Analysis in general has plenty of judgements about player decisions. Roku is giving his opinion about what decisions are bad, and perhaps he should go into more detail about WHY they are bad and such but there is nothing wrong with what he is doing.

Offline HRGS|忍

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2011, 10:41:46 AM »
Don't be biased. That is all.
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2011, 10:42:17 AM »
Roku, one of the newer members that plays C-Wara where I live asked me about the C-Wara vs Nero (Any moon) match-up.
I'm not sure what to tell him, but I can put in a request for that.
I don't have any match footage right now, but I'll try and search some out.

-TexasTim-

Offline Rokunaya

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2011, 10:43:49 AM »
Roku, one of the newer members that plays C-Wara where I live asked me about the C-Wara vs Nero (Any moon) match-up.
I'm not sure what to tell him, but I can put in a request for that.
I don't have any match footage right now, but I'll try and search some out.

-TexasTim-

I'm not too detailed about this matchup in particular, but i have a pretty good idea how both characters work. I'll ask around and fish for videos and get back to you on this.

If I had to make an early judgement I'd say its probably 6-4 Cnero though... I'll wait and see til I can figure out the details and such


Edit: After talking to Tonberry he confirmed that this matchup is an absolute nightmare for C-Wara, and I can see why. Probably one of his worst matchups in the game.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 10:53:14 AM by Rokunaya »
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Offline Greg

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2011, 10:54:03 AM »
Ah.. I forgot to write this...

I think that maybe you should play the match straight through the first time around with just some light commentary and then go back through a match and break down key decisions.

All the pausing was a bit distracting. For me at least.

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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2011, 10:59:11 AM »
Ah.. I forgot to write this...

I think that maybe you should play the match straight through the first time around with just some light commentary and then go back through a match and break down key decisions.

All the pausing was a bit distracting. For me at least.

That's a pretty good idea. I'll try doing this next time.
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Offline Parapets

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2011, 10:59:52 AM »
I think it would be helpful if you went into more detail on how characters' moves work, e.g. for Chaos, you could explain what his deer does, what the A and B versions look like, what his EX crows do, why he would use it, etc.

Offline Rokunaya

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2011, 11:10:09 AM »
I think it would be helpful if you went into more detail on how characters' moves work, e.g. for Chaos, you could explain what his deer does, what the A and B versions look like, what his EX crows do, why he would use it, etc.

Fair enough, I did do my stream assuming you knew a decent bit of what's going on, I can pause and go into closer detail next time, no problem.


That said, I have an idea I want to pitch, and I want honest opinions. For the first matches I commentated between F-Arc/C-Nero, I feel this would be of great use, but I'm not sure if it'll be too silly to actually do, so here I am asking.

How would you guys feel if I used markers sometimes in this sort of fashion?

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Offline Komidol

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2011, 11:40:05 AM »
Rokumaddenya 2011!
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2011, 11:56:28 AM »
I'd say use whatever tool you want if it helps achieve your goal.
Hard to say if it will be too silly before I see it. Just use your own judgment on what is 'silly'.
I can see how it could be useful. Just try it out and see if the lines actually do what you want without being too much of a distraction.

Offline Tony Shiki

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2011, 05:35:47 PM »
Missed the live, but caught the archive. My perspective is from a beginner view as well.

1. Plan out the matches you want to discuss beforehand, ask people what they want to see during the week and find matches on those subjects. If you do take match request while live that is fine too, but keep a few matches that are already planned out. Try to watch the matches beforehand and write down the time's of moments that you want to go back to so you're not skipping around so much.

2. Let the matches play out first then go back to moments you felt were noteworthy and explain why this was good or this was bad in detail (not too much detail). Like Greg said the pausing was distracting.

3. I like the salt because it adds a comedy element to the show, but explain why some things are salt inducing rather than saying "This character is stupid", "This character does what he/she wants", "This character should be banned". If you don't do that it just sounds like you're hating (nothing new though) and being biased, this makes new players think that the character is just cheap and they shouldn't play them or the reverse effect.

4. Like mostly everything that is new, you have to assume the players watching are mostly new (you did say this was to help RK as well) and don't know much about what is going on. For the most part you did good on that, but sometimes you lost me because you were too brief and just said "That was a shitty decision", I as new player don't know why that was a shitty decision.

5. Madden play by play, do that shit. It will solve the above problem.

All in all I liked it and thought it was informative.
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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2011, 06:29:41 PM »
So when I did this I was completely unbiased and explained most things in depth?

Cool.  8-)
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Offline Tonberry

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2011, 09:29:28 PM »
Roku, one of the newer members that plays C-Wara where I live asked me about the C-Wara vs Nero (Any moon) match-up.
I'm not sure what to tell him, but I can put in a request for that.
I don't have any match footage right now, but I'll try and search some out.

-TexasTim-

If the Nero doesn't know what he's doing the following advice is useful
- 2b AA
- Akiha summon AA/mid range poke
- Tornados/Nanaya summon to keep him off the ground
- Dash 2c

If the Nero knows what he's doing the following advice is useful
- Pick a different character
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Offline TheMaster_Rahl

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2011, 02:06:43 AM »
Thanks for the responses, I'll find some footage soon. Just swamped with school work right now. Give me a couple of days.

Offline Omicron Austin

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2011, 09:36:34 PM »
I watched the first archive, and thought it was fairly informative.  I'm a really new player, so there's still a lot I don't know, but I'm not sure by how much you want to cater it towards my audience.  Personally, I'd appreciate, when you say somebody's going for a certain reset, what the options are for both players on both sides.  It might take a while, but I imagine you'd only need to do it once or twice per match/matchup (as the resets are often used multiples times).

Also, I'd like to request any sort of V-Akiha play to be commentated.  I would offer footage, but my opinion is probably not that valid when it comes to what is really high level play or what an interesting matchup is.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 09:44:23 PM by Omicron Austin »

Offline Komidol

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2011, 11:57:26 AM »
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/pro-gaming Zaelar, I nominate you to be a pro-gaming star.

Also the only thing this missed was that the game has to be competitive/good enough to actually be played so we don't get tragedies a'la MvC3.

Makes a lot of good points.  I remember watching an old Day9 stream about what made commentary good, and a lot of came down to explaining why things were important and exciting in Starcraft.  FG's can learn from this.  We should look forward to taking these sorts of things into consideration when promoting events and uploading matches in the future. 

But Roku, this is along the lines of what I was talking about.  If you really want to be serious about this, that is.  Don't freestyle, come up with points and other features before hand.

For the first few videos, if you want to use the madden-like style that's fine, but look for styles to build on your own from the start. 
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: MBAA Detailed Analysis Live Streaming Sessions
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2011, 09:01:07 AM »
Hey guys, keep the feedback coming and more requests. Video links and the sort would be appreciated since I'm looking pretty busy today and a good part of tomorrow, and won't really be able to spend much time organizing until Saturday/Sunday itself.

Still thinking about doing the 'madden-ya' thing, I'll get back to you all on that.



P.S.: Thanks for the advice Komidol but I'll keep doing what I feel is right.

Edit:

Looking at the poll again, Saturday/Sunday are looking really even here.
Should I take the poll again and see what everyone else thinks, or keep doing these sunday? Most days of the weekend are out so if I remake the poll it'd be Saturday/Sunday.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 09:03:24 AM by Rokunaya »
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