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Author Topic: H-Kohaku  (Read 13584 times)

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Offline Lord Knight

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H-Kohaku
« on: January 11, 2012, 12:44:16 AM »
Same shit  :nyoro:

Seriously though, a few small changes -

BUFFS
- Damage is about the same as PS2, damage is up from 1.05
-623A otg relaunches, allowing for an airthrow ender
-623B otg relaunches and gives hard knockdown, allowing for some retarded setups
-236A is hard knockdown, meaning you can confirm random 2C's into either 236A > roll > 623A > aerial for damage, meter and airthrow knockdown or 236A > feint > 623A into airthrow.
-Because of the 2 above buffs, the midscreen command grab combo is MUCH EASIER[/i][/u] than the PS2 combo. However, it does less damage. Do as you will.
-Thanks to the new buffer, battou feints are significantly easier, especially after 5A6AA's.

NERFS
-Charged 5B does not hard knockdown anymore.
-Hitbox nerfs to 5A/J.A/2B/2C (though it's nothing too serious)
-Universal 123 punch nerf.
-Cannot do Magnum Upper > EX bomb explosion > full combo.

COMBO CHANGES

Pretty much everything from PS2 works in this version, but you can't end in Charged 5B anymore.

COMBO PRIMER

Quote from: Midscreen BNB
2A > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 5A6AA > Delay 2C > 236A > feint > 2A > 2C > 5Awhiff 6AA > 623[A] > j[C]B > dj jBC > airthrow or j236C > airthrow

Point blank BNB. Works on almost everyone. Doesn't work on -

Arc/Warc - They've got tits, so the 5A near the end of the combo won't whiff on them. Instead, simply go into 623A after 2C.
Wara/Miyako - Oddly enough, Wara is too skinny for 236A to connect to easily. After the first 2C, simply go into 623A > aerial. If you're confident, the delay 236A timing is the same for the two of them.
Nero - Too wide for the second part of the combo to hit. Use the same Arc/Warc variant.

Quote from: Random midscreen ground hitconfirm 1
2A>2B(1)>5C(1)>5Awhiff 6AA > 2C > 623A > j[C]B > dj jBC > airthrow or j236C airthrow

Nothing special of note. Do this when the first hit of 5A whiffs.

Quote from: Random midscreen ground hitconfirm 2
xx > 2C > 623A > j[C]B > dj jBC > airthrow or j236C airthrow

Quote from: Midscreen Command Grab combo
Magnum Upper > 2A whiff > BE5B > 5C > 236A > roll followup > 623A > j[C]B > dj jBC > airthrow or j236C airthrow

By FAR the easiest, most stable command grab combo, and it works on the entire cast. However, you will sacrifice about 500-600 damage for doing it...

Quote from: Midscreen Command Grab combo 2
Magnum Upper > 5A6A whiff > 6A > 2A whiff > BE5B > 5C > 2C > 623A > j[C]B > dj jBC > airthrow or j236C airthrow

The highest midscreen magnum combo. Works on Akiha, Vakiha, Seifuuku, Ries, Tohno, Nanaya, Kouma, Aoko, Warc, Arc and Ryougi. Oddly enough, because of them changing H-Koha's 5A hitbox, it works on a couple of more characters than before.

Quote from: Midscreen Command Grab combo 3
Magnum Upper > 2A whiff > BE5B > 5C > 2C > 5Awhiff 6AA > 623[A] > j[C]B > dj jBC > airthrow or j236C airthrow

The former standard midscreen Magnum combo. At least, learn to do this on Nero and Warakia, since it isn't too difficult on them. The timing for 2C > 5A6AA can get picky vs Kohaku, Roa, and the Sion's.

Quote from: Corner BNB
2A > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 5A6AA > delay 236B > B Followup > 5A/2A  > 5C > 236B > B Followup > 5A > 6A > BE5B > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 236A or 623A aerial
Most stable, highest damage corner combo. More or less works on everyone.

Quote from: Corner command grab combo
Magnum Upper > 2A whiff > BE5B > 5C(1) > 236A > 236B > B followup > 5A/2A > 5C > 236B > B Followup > 5A > 6A > BE5B > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 236A or 623A aerial

Nero/Warakia - Doesn't work. If it does, it's way too hard  :nyoro:

Quote from: Corner command grab combo 2
Magnum Upper > 2A whiff > BE5B > 5C(1) > 236B > A followup > 5A/2A > 5C > 236B > A followup > 5A/2A > 236B > A followup > 5A > 6A > BE5B > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 236A or 623A aerial

3 Rep command grab combo, pretty stable. Works on Sion's, Akiha's, Maids, Arc, Warc, probably Kouma... Might be forgetting a couple of characters   :laffo:. Anyways, this combo gains more meter and does a pinch more than the above, but a little more difficult.

Quote from: Nero/Wara Corner command grab combo
Magnum Upper > 2A whiff > BE5B > 5C(1) > 5A > 236B > B followup > 5A/2A > 5C > 236B > B followup > 5A/2A > 236B > B followup > 5A > 6A > BE5B > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 236A or 623A aerial

Small change in order to get them to the correct height.

Quote from: Arc drive combo
xx > 236A > Arc drive

Yep, simple as that.

Quote from: Random character notes
Vs Len's - 623A does not OTG relaunch EVER
Magnum > 5A6A(Whiff)6A connects - Akiha, VAkiha, Seifuuku, Arc, Warc, Kouma, Aoko, Tohno, Nanaya, Ries, Ryougi
3 Rep Battou Loop (standard varient) connects on - Akiha, Seifuuku, Kouma, Sion, Vshion, Hisui, Kohaku, Mech Hisui, Sacchin, Hime

Feel free to contribute w/e.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 03:31:22 PM by Lord Knight »
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 12:54:06 AM »
Nice, LK. Gonna steal this format when I do Nanaya thread, it's good.

Also, I was still considering fucking around with Hkoha since i have the means to learn a bunch of alts now because of netplay... How wise do you think messing around with Hkoha on netplay is with her combos, and how hard is she to pick up?

INB4 go back to Nanaya
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Offline Pfhor

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 09:26:41 AM »
Hkohaku shares the changes with C regarding her j.b, 2c, j.a, and 5a. Exclusive to H, her 2b has been nerfed significantly.

H's hitbox changes Ps2 is on the left, CC is on the right:

5a (nerf):
http://ffauploads.com/Hkohaku%205a.PNG

j.a (nerf):
http://ffauploads.com/Hkohaku%20ja.PNG

2c (mixed nerf/buff):
http://ffauploads.com/Hkohaku%202c.PNG

j.b (very very slight nerf)
http://ffauploads.com/Hkohaku%20jb.PNG

2b (got raped, at least the green box is smaller too)
http://ffauploads.com/Hkohaku%202b.PNG
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 09:28:46 AM by Pfhor »

Offline Pfhor

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2012, 08:41:19 PM »
Fucking LK, update your post because her 623b is a hard knockdown and you obviously didn't know about that when you made this topic. She has a slightly weaker (I think?) version of her old bomb setup for no meter.

Offline Lord Knight

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 08:11:11 AM »
I found out after I made that post....

Anyways, I'm pretty sure the bomb mixup off 623B is better than BE5B as far as poke/throw goes, but you can't do any left/right setups afaik.

Also, it's possible to do bomb mixup off A battou > feint > bomb, but that's highly reliant on their getup speed (more than 623B).
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 09:44:57 AM by Lord Knight »
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Offline Rokunaya

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 09:40:14 AM »
LK since the forum doesn't accept [  B ] by normal means just say BE otherwise your text will be bolded wrongly, just for future reference.

What are the opponent's options versus bomb okizeme exactly? What beats what? I never really knew what to do other than DP or block so knowing the actual options would be useful
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Offline Lord Knight

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 09:44:41 AM »
Shit, I was one of the people who started using BE for that reason lol, that's what I get for typing in a rush.

Anyway as far as B cleaning bomb setup, I have no idea what to do besides reversal right now. I've gotten it tight enough that if they jump they are forced to block the bomb explosion, and then punish them with guard break. However, that was only with opponent's jumping backward, not jumping forwards. Also I haven't checked if mashing will win yet. AFAIK, you still can't shield bombs.
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Offline Funky-kun

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 07:19:20 PM »
I was messing around with her and found out that after 2 rep loop in corner 5c doesn't link to 623b. However, you can combo into 2c, which does link to 623b. The loop I plan on using is:

Code: [Select]
2A 2B(1) 5C(1) 5A 6AA  236B~A xx 5A 5C 236B~A xx 5A 6A 5[B] 2B(1) 2C 623B

Deals 5k on VSion, leads to bomb > poke/throw mixup. Nasty.
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Offline Funky-kun

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 11:26:27 AM »
OK, I need some help for the H-Koha vs C-Wara matchup.

My experience is as follows:

-In the air it seems 50/50. When on the same level, his j.B usually prevails. I get to j.A him if he's too close, maybe. When he's above me, j.B can usually tag him. If I'm above him j.C works, but not reliably enough - he has to be really close for it to work.

-The problem seems to be on the ground. I can't jump before him, because I just position myself to get hit by his j.B. IAD close to ground puts me in OK positioning, but gets destroyed by his ground normals. When I sit on the ground, his summons cover the ground for him. 2C is my only option, but whiffing it means death. Is there anything I'm missing in neutral? I can't get the bouncing bomb to cover me effectively.

-As in most of Melty, whoever first gets cornered usually loses. However, I don't feel comfortable in neutral and get cornered more often. After that, 623C can get you only so far. And his freaking normals aren't easy to bunker. :/ If I read a redash I can 2c him, but having the hurricane series as an alternative keeps me from doing this.

-The antiair situation seem meh. My 5b beats bad airdashes, but 2b does absolutely nothing against him. Thank god j.C beats his 2b more often than not.

A bit of contribution:
Code: [Select]
cmd throw > 2a (whiff) 5[b]5c(1)236b~a xx 5a5c(1)236b~a xx 5a6a5[b]5c -> ender

Works on Wara. The 236b~a delay is smaller than on most chars. Also works on Nero, the delay on him is even smaller than with Wara.

So any tips? Maybe some example match vids? (LK vs ehrik?) Any insight would be appreciated.
In Soviet Blood, victory 2a's its way to you.

Offline Lord Knight

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 01:27:27 AM »
this match is not that bad, you just need exp

you cant win air to air if you're level with him, just block

he's also really hard to aa cause he can do falling katto

basicially you want to try to tag his jB with 2c. this loses to jC and katto

shield works too

also, dash 5a > 5b to catch him jumping in neutral. watch out for dash 2b. whatever your first hit is, if it is CH, go for the absolute highest damage confirm you can since his defense sucks at the start of his life bar

practice the PS2 midscreen command grab combo on him and nero, its not that hard and does like 3.5k instead of 2000

jC > jB kamone works on him, jAB works too

once you're in just run train and watch out for heat, its big and fast
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Offline Lord Knight

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2012, 03:48:40 PM »
made some minor edits
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Offline evanui

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 09:39:08 PM »
if someone made a video of these combos, i'd love them forever

having trouble grasping the combos for h koha v.v

edit: especially the corner bnb:
2A > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 5A6AA > delay 236B > B Followup > 5A/2A  > 5C > 236B > B Followup > 5A > 6A > BE5B > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 236A or 623A aerial
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 05:23:01 PM by evanui »

Offline Funky-kun

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2012, 01:07:54 PM »
For a general feel of the combos you can take a look at LK's video for MBAA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtLl3HYYBzY

Some of the combos are even exactly the same.
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Offline Fishduck

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 10:55:53 AM »
2A > 2B(1) > 5C(1) > 5A6AA > Delay 2C > 236A > feint > 2A > 2C > 5Awhiff 6AA > 623[A] > j[C]B > dj jBC > airthrow or j236C > airthrow
Just.. How? That input is 236 AC right? If I do 236A and do 236+ anything with a C it links to EX.

Offline Tonberry

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 11:04:17 AM »
You do 236a > 236B~C. 
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Offline Fishduck

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Re: H-Kohaku
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 02:35:16 PM »
You do 236a > 236B~C.
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