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Author Topic: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)  (Read 23608 times)

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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2012, 05:19:49 PM »
Yeah that's what I was mostly getting exited about: Kouma w/ wara-esque air mobility/options in neutral. what was even more interesting was how it was incorporated into air combos and air guard strings. This and his 3D fg style frame traps are tempting me to pickup H on the side.   >:D
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Offline dumba989

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2012, 10:34:38 AM »
Yeah that's what I was mostly getting exited about: Kouma w/ wara-esque air mobility/options in neutral. what was even more interesting was how it was incorporated into air combos and air guard strings. This and his 3D fg style frame traps are tempting me to pickup H on the side.   >:D

H-Moon is simple enough to pickup & the execution is not an demanding as F-Moons with the exception of the j.C>j.22b>airthrow ender. J.22b is SO useful
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Offline SolarSkurge

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2012, 07:16:43 PM »
Kouma threads are so dead guysss. I may make an H Kouma combo vid, as I'll be switching to him tonight. Anyone wanna contribute?

Offline Benny1

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2012, 06:44:41 AM »
I'll see if I can get a recording of my W.Len loop.
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Offline Jetlag

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2012, 04:53:46 PM »
Hey guys, new member here saying hello. I've been playing Kouma since the old Act Cadenza days but I really wasn't that good at the game since I had my eyes focused more on other fighters. But I'm back into playing MB again and my first choice was actually H-Kouma. A lot of my friends advised me to pick another moon type but I wanted to learn H-Kouma. And it's odd because you never see any H-Kouma guides at all since he wasn't popular on the PS2 port from what I've read. But seeing this thread actually gave me hope that people are actually appreciating him. So thanks on that.

Unfortunately as I said previously, I'm not very good on MB though I am trying very hard. So if anyone have any advices on how to play H-Kouma better it will be pretty awesome. But are there other damaging BnBs that H-Kouma can do other than:

2AA > 2B > 5B > 5C > 2C > (Delay) 236B > 5A > 5C > 2B > Air-Grab

I do other simple combos that aren't worth mentioning but I want to know H-Kouma's greatest assets like Anti-Air 2B and from what I read now his Air 22B.

Offline dumba989

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2012, 09:10:28 AM »
It seems that JP is using the C/H 5A~2C loop to it's full advantage on the characters that it can be performed on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKjfltGF2Z0&feature=g-all-u&context=G27b7957FAAAAAAAAEAA
14:36
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Offline Amraphenson

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2012, 12:45:50 PM »
Has anyone noticed that if you land 6c on C-Kouma, it combos into ex-dunk and AAD grab? Not sure if it's a gimmick or not, but it seems really scary.

Offline Sashi

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2012, 12:53:30 PM »
That is interesting, but if you landed a 6C, you can do more with a normal combo than if you ExDunk. 6k 6C AAD is pretty funny, though.
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Offline Amraphenson

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2012, 02:08:00 PM »
Figured the EXDunk followup wasn't ideal.
Anyways, blabla > 2c 6c is C-Kouma's safe heat setup, right? And can you sandoori with C-Kouma?

Offline FireBearHero

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2012, 12:16:45 PM »
623B 236B enders should not be done after a super double jump.  You're far too high at that point to get any sort of a tech punish, those enders should only be done from low heights.

It's just 236B in the air. It's only 623B on the ground.
236B ender is better than airthrow. You can just let them chill up there and try to scoop them up as they try to get to the ground safely. c-kouma everything is air-unblockable.

Offline FireBearHero

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2012, 11:51:06 AM »
Hey guys, new member here saying hello. I've been playing Kouma since the old Act Cadenza days but I really wasn't that good at the game since I had my eyes focused more on other fighters. But I'm back into playing MB again and my first choice was actually H-Kouma. A lot of my friends advised me to pick another moon type but I wanted to learn H-Kouma. And it's odd because you never see any H-Kouma guides at all since he wasn't popular on the PS2 port from what I've read. But seeing this thread actually gave me hope that people are actually appreciating him. So thanks on that.

Unfortunately as I said previously, I'm not very good on MB though I am trying very hard. So if anyone have any advices on how to play H-Kouma better it will be pretty awesome. But are there other damaging BnBs that H-Kouma can do other than:

2AA > 2B > 5B > 5C > 2C > (Delay) 236B > 5A > 5C > 2B > Air-Grab

I do other simple combos that aren't worth mentioning but I want to know H-Kouma's greatest assets like Anti-Air 2B and from what I read now his Air 22B.

(2A 2A) 5C 5B 2B 2C 236B 2A 5C 2B AT

5C starter does more damage. The rebeat penalty from 5C 5B is gone by the time 2A 5C 2B happens so no worries about them stacking. 5C 2B 5B technically does more damage (10 more or something), but can fail due to distance depending on how slow/fast you had to poke with 2As and 5C. As a general rule replace 5A with 2A whenever possible because 2A has 5% less proration.

Plus don't get used to starting with 2A 2A 2B. Use a standing normal (5C) after 2A 2A so you don't have another habit to break when you have to learn to wakeup-DP OS against people who pick eaSion to faceroll.

Starting with 2A 2A 2B also has another very distinct disadvantage- the pushback means you can't 2A 2A 2B 214B. The 214B will simply not connect. 2A 2A 5C 5B 214B works, as well as 2A 2A 5B 214B. 2A 2A 5C 5B has the advantage of not looking any different than a regular ideal OS blockstring that they know they can't mash out of except oh shit i'm getting thrown. 2A 2A 5C 5B 214B is also at the perfect distance to make their 2A and 5A stuff attempts hilariously whiff in case they have a less than complete understanding of what is happening.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 12:36:10 PM by Thana »

Offline Sashi

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Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2012, 12:34:34 PM »
You can also do fun double 6AA stuff like 5BCA6AA2C236B5A6AA2B Airthrow. Looks cool. Not very useful.

EDIT: Delay the hits in 5A6AA very slightly or it might drop and be not hype.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 02:04:52 PM by Sacchin 22A »
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Offline FireBearHero

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2012, 12:37:48 PM »
You can also do fun double 6AA stuff like 5BCA6AA2C236B5A6AA2B Airthrow. Looks cool. Not very useful.

2B 5B 5C 5A 6A 6A xx 5A 5C 2B AT is actually not far behind in damage compared to the 236B stuff if you aren't confident in your 2C x 236B timing.

Offline Sashi

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Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #63 on: April 26, 2012, 01:57:10 PM »
But that's not hype.
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Offline FireBearHero

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2012, 02:13:15 PM »
Neither is dropping shit all day that's not only hard to time to begin with, but also varies on pretty much every character.

2A 2A 5C+D 5A 5A 5B 2B 2C 236B tk236B 236B I DARE YOU TO TECH BRO
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 12:39:01 PM by Thana »

Offline FireBearHero

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2012, 02:33:26 PM »
H-Moon is simple enough to pickup & the execution is not an demanding as F-Moons with the exception of the j.C>j.22b>airthrow ender. J.22b is SO useful

protip: airthrow has more advantage the lower you do it to the ground. j.22b is not for combos.
You want that classic MBAC sandoori don't you? Yeah you do.

Likewise j.236B 236B stops being a tech trap and just becomes stupid as hell to do unless it's basically TK'd right over the floor against a standing/crouching opponent or someone very, very low to the ground.
example: 236B hit against a standing or crouching opponent can be followed up by TK j.236B 236B to become a tech trap.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 02:41:57 PM by FireBearHero »

Offline ehrik

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #66 on: April 29, 2012, 11:52:08 AM »
J22b is for confirms where kouma is too far below them to finish the air ender and can be used as a neutral tool
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Offline FireBearHero

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #67 on: April 29, 2012, 12:00:31 PM »
J22b is for confirms where kouma is too far below them to finish the air ender

I've never actually seen this happen. 6 frame j.b counter hit god.
also because blocked 2A 2A 5C 5A 5A 5B 2B 2C spaces for 623A to only hit once upon counter-hit which makes it not suck dick since you can scoop it up with 2C 236B 5A 5C 2B AT

Shit, adding 5A(s) has turned it into a 1 frame link and more reliant on the 236B timing (too late and the link becomes 0 frames despite getting the untechable knockdown from second 236B hit as normal) on sion/v.sion etc
Obviously it would, but I spent a long time trying to grind it out without realizing that. (it almost feels practical now)
2A 2A 5C 5A 5A (6A) 5B 2B 2C 236B xx 5A 5C 2B AT does work on the entire cast though. Practical against the more floaty characters immune to c-kouma 2C 5A 236A 5A 236A 5A 236A it seems (it won't become a 0-frame link because of 236B not being perfect. No matter what you do. I've tried.)

Generally if they're going to unblock it's between 5A and 5B or where they're used to you mixing in command throws so it's easier than you'd think by a large margin. Definitely a good idea for the whole thing to work in case you catch them sleeping on wakeup, though.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 06:20:11 PM by FireBearHero »

Offline BlueBlueAquamarine

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2012, 01:12:13 PM »
j.22b airthrow looks cooler.  :toot:

It seems that JP is using the C/H 5A~2C loop to it's full advantage on the characters that it can be performed on.
That looks nifty, kinda like F-Arc 2c 236b stuff. Any details on that? If not, guess I will experiment with it.

And can you sandoori with C-Kouma?
Sandoori isn't something that special. A bunch of characters (including all moons of Kouma) do it all the time. Check this post about what sandoori is. This is really important to all Koumas.

Also, a video demonstration some guy made. The stuff with j.[c] is F-Kouma specific. C/H-Kouma can also use air dodge, so they don't necessarily have less options.
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Offline dumba989

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2012, 12:26:37 PM »
Don't know if anyone's seen this yet but H can corner to corner carry with about 85%+ HEAT doing almost 5K.
http://youtu.be/64CQPQjyH2U?t=10m9s

Will have to test & see if it's character specific or not.
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Offline FireBearHero

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #70 on: July 30, 2012, 09:35:17 PM »
Don't know if anyone's seen this yet but H can corner to corner carry with about 85%+ HEAT doing almost 5K.
http://youtu.be/64CQPQjyH2U?t=10m9s

Will have to test & see if it's character specific or not.

236C facing the corner can always put you behind them into the corner with fast timing of pretty much any normal afterwards (yikes 2C).
I've had it happen (on accident OTL) with pretty much every character by now and had to pick it up.

Cancelling into it for the awesome trade (okay double counter hit cross-counter with my super-armor wallslam EX, retard) when they're in the corner can be pretty damn annoying because of it.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 09:37:13 PM by FireBearHero »

Offline dumba989

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2013, 10:27:47 AM »
Don't know if anyone playing this character has seen these (you probably have) but I have some vids from my YouTube playlist that show off Kouma (mostly F-Moon) things that I thought were worth putting on here, especially for newer players, leave your comments on here for discussion, etc.

This first one is Kaimaato Vs. GO1 at SBO2010
http://youtu.be/Em3-8t40Hfk

The vids are basic tutorials of F-Kouma as far as normals, combos, and options off of okizeme
http://youtu.be/cTX4-QYLlMs
http://youtu.be/7kAfAowD84E
http://youtu.be/Q_cl3Ya0cQs

The next videos have timestamps marked by me on them so you can FF to get to the juicy stuff
http://youtu.be/DIuXtLmmenE (Mainly H-Kouma stuff)
http://youtu.be/SKjfltGF2Z0 (Footage of JIN playing all 3 moons but H a majority of the time)
http://youtu.be/ZgE21WrQW7Y (Melty Bread has commented on matches on the video as well)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 10:30:20 AM by dumba989 »
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Offline RetroStation

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2013, 01:35:28 PM »
New user here, but an avid Kouma user.

C-Kouma BnB's:

5B 214C - Short, sweet and consistent
5A 5B(B) 5C 236C 236C, then:
-j.BC dj.BC AT
-623C
-236C
- AAD

F-Kouma BnB's:

5AA 5B 2B 5C 236A/B 236A/B 236C (delay), then:
-623C
-236C
- AAD

C-/F-Kouma gimmick: j.214B, airdash on block (AT punish if they jump toward you), j.214A, or j.214C immediately after hit.

Offline Tonberry

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #73 on: May 06, 2013, 01:41:58 PM »
New user here, but an avid Kouma user.

C-Kouma BnB's:

5B 214C - Short, sweet and consistent
5A 5B(B) 5C 236C 236C, then:
-j.BC dj.BC AT
-623C
-236C
- AAD

F-Kouma BnB's:

5AA 5B 2B 5C 236A/B 236A/B 236C (delay), then:
-623C
-236C
- AAD

C-/F-Kouma gimmick: j.214B, airdash on block (AT punish if they jump toward you), j.214A, or j.214C immediately after hit.

You should watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9vjlumym1Y
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Offline RetroStation

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Re: Kishima Kouma current code changes (1.07)
« Reply #74 on: May 06, 2013, 07:13:31 PM »
New user here, but an avid Kouma user.

C-Kouma BnB's:

5B 214C - Short, sweet and consistent
5A 5B(B) 5C 236C 236C, then:
-j.BC dj.BC AT
-623C
-236C
- AAD

F-Kouma BnB's:

5AA 5B 2B 5C 236A/B 236A/B 236C (delay), then:
-623C
-236C
- AAD

C-/F-Kouma gimmick: j.214B, airdash on block (AT punish if they jump toward you), j.214A, or j.214C immediately after hit.

You should watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9vjlumym1Y

Thanks. My execution still needs work (Alt'ing between standing and crouching normals scrambles my brain sometimes), but I'll get there :)