MBAA: Actress Again Kouma Discussion

[S-Blade]

This is a thread for us to discuss (i.e. speculate) Kouma in Actress Again until we get a console release or some other undetermined time (whatever).

First things first~~ When you talk about something, make sure to note what groove you're talking about! There are three grooves in MBAA (one of which none of us should use or talk about for very long), and all characters have move differences depending on which groove, so make sure to remember to state the groove! This will avoid a lot of potential confusion later.

For the record, if we (or I, rather) get a local/pc/console release, I will be writing another guide ;p MBAA looks like a big enough overhaul for everyone that it will be necessary.

I'll start us off with this and this, credit to kozu and Magikarp9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ap5n15vxwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCn9JZxnQs

So far we've only seen Crescent Moon footage from these. Also, for the record, all of MBAA is faster so don't bother saying "so and so move seems a lot faster"

Here's what I noticed to seem the same:
5b
j.C
2c
Dash
Backdash
214b
22a
j.236a/b

And what's new! (at least in crescent moon):
5a
2a
Uppercut-move (2b or 5c?)
6c
Command air-dash
Axl Bomber-type move

The new 5a (overall nerf):
Goes a little farther for the price of not hitting high up directly above him anymore, which is a pretty critical and useful area to have a move, but he no longer has it and will probably have to use 22a to hit that area if he needs to (not good)

The new 2a (nerf):
He doesn't even extend his arm all the way anymore.

Uppercut move (I think this is 5c judging by where it was in the string and not 2b but i'm not sure):
If it replaces his 2b, meh. If it replaces his 5c, awesome. It's yet another move that moves him forward, and we love those. But if it replaces his 2b, it will probably make his AA worse overall. 2b was (is?) a good AA, this uppercut move doesn't look like it'd be as good.

6c (not sure but looks like a serious nerf to an already not so hot move):
This is the stomp and the V-shaped-fire move. It is slooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww. That being said I think a Kouma combo would end up being something like 2c<uppercut move>6c. Pray that it doesn't rebeat. Otherwise, the V-fire reaches really high and that'd actually be a great way to control a lot of the space above him if you can pre-empt your opponent enough to not get CH'd on such a slow move, lol

Command air-dash:
It looks like 22b, but faster and in the air. He can do it after his regular dash which makes things sort of interesting. What he can do afterwards we aren't sure yet, and if it has clash/invincibility we aren't sure yet but if it does, expect to approach by tiger-kneeing this move. Seriously looks like it came from DBZ. lol.

Axl-Bomber-type move:
The downward fire kick. This looks AWESOME. Already we see two versions, one that pops Kouma back into the air after the hit, and one that continues him downward into the ground after the hit. I'd expect the EX version to groundbounce (aww yeah bomber loops lol) I'd imagine you can create some serious rushdown with this, imagine something like IAD j.C bomber still in air command dash bomber into ground groundstring ;p We could also be seeing some very interesting combos with the version that pops him back up, imagine launching your opponent and then TKing this move so that the opponent sort of falls into it, then Kouma pops back up and the opponent is hit upwards as well and then Kouma is still below his opponent so he can do the move again and loop like that ;p

This shit looks hot, guys. <3<3<3

[Ultima66]

Well before you get onto his pokes getting weakened, it should be noted that everyone's pokes are weakened to my knowledge. They no longer want the whole game to be 2A. Like a lot of Kohaku's long range pokes are shorter range, Wara has no nails in some style, etc.

[S-Blade]

Tons of new shit guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xdQ9Ek934w

I'll list the new shit in order of appearance

Crescent Moon:
Kouma still has his 5b, so that uppercut move is probably 5c.
New rekkas. Second hit looks jump cancellable.
AIR COMBOS WTF
It looks like he has a new air normal in that air combo but it's hard to see and hard to tell
I don't know what to call this move anymore so I'll call it (EX) bomber unless someone has a better idea. Yay knockdown

Full Moon:
OMG ANTI AIR GRAB. No one will ever jump out again. It doesn't look like you can get oki off this, though, the knockdown time is too short.
OMG EX ANTI AIR GRAB. SUP SACCHIN. Definitely no oki off this, but where does it grab people? We don't know, the area could be large or small.

That's all I got for you, but it's definitely a lot. I can't even begin to think of how different things are going to be. Like....air combos?!?!
Anyway I hope Kouma stays a grappler and I can't say much about crescent moon but full moon looks like it's going to be even MORE of a grappler than Kouma is now.

[Nevan]

True m8, AA brings new wicked shit to our dear Kouma-sama I'l liking these new improvements, lets see how they will improve BnB and OKI ^^ Btw...is it me or Kouma's harder to play with in AA? O.o

[noradseven]

man the new kouma looks crazy, I was watching all the MBAA vids, and I almost fell out of my chair when I saw kouma do an air combo I was like WTF, man looks like im going to have to try all the characters again in MBAA to see who will be my new main.

[Kamina]

Damn, this is gunna be sooo crazy, Kouma's gunna be the Rebound King when he pulls off those anti air grabs, I'm lovin how he just drags em through the ground on the Ex, hmmm Full Moon style or Crescent? How about both? I guess the styles are gunna affect matchups, just hope it isnt a HUGE gap in advantages and disadvantages..

[Nevan]

Dunno m8, but if it will make some diference? Oh yes, it will  I think im goin to Full Moon style, grabber ftw!

[S-Blade]

[06:31] <AkiraS> s-blade i got some kouma stuff but it's not a lot
[06:31] <S-Blade> =o
[06:31] <S-Blade> awesome!
[06:31] <S-Blade> let's hear it!
[06:31] <AkiraS> forgot which form had it, I think it was full
[06:31] <AkiraS> he has a j.214
[06:31] <AkiraS> it's a flame kick, except it's downward and he glides with it
[06:31] <S-Blade> yeah, those were in some videos
[06:31] <S-Blade> does it seem good?
[06:31] <AkiraS> half moon 5A slaps down, and 2A slaps down too
[06:32] <AkiraS> it feels ok
[06:32] <S-Blade> lol werd
[06:32] <AkiraS> i was gtting a lot of CHs
[06:32] <S-Blade> weird
[06:32] <S-Blade> slaps DOWN
[06:32] <S-Blade> lol
[06:32] <AkiraS> on people doing it
[06:32] <Irysa> Needs more NAC
[06:32] <AkiraS> like they'd try something, and i was jumping around with j214 for fun
[06:32] <AkiraS> and i kept CHing people
[06:32] <AkiraS> I didn't get to really try his 623 in Full Moon
[06:32] <AkiraS> that grab
[06:32] <AkiraS> 623A got blocked
[06:32] <AkiraS> i did land a 623C
[06:32] <AkiraS> but i couldn't tell if i did it while they were in the air, or ground
[06:33] <AkiraS> either way, it grabbed them
[06:33] <S-Blade> lol
[06:33] <AkiraS> 214C feels a bit different, don't know how to explain it
[06:33] <S-Blade> so wait, 623a the grab got BLOCKED?
[06:33] <AkiraS> feels/looks less obvious IMO
[06:33] <AkiraS> yeah
[06:33] <AkiraS> it got blocked
[06:33] <S-Blade> oh wow
[06:33] <AkiraS> so i was thinking if it was like
[06:33] <S-Blade> that's interesting
[06:33] <AkiraS> say, satsuki's grabs
[06:33] <S-Blade> for combos maybe
[06:33] <AkiraS> the fireballs
[06:33] <S-Blade> yeah
[06:33] <AkiraS> how people can block those and what not
[06:34] <AkiraS> but yeah, i couldn't really get them in the air with full
[06:34] <AkiraS> so i just did generic combo 236B x3
[06:34] <S-Blade> lol
[06:34] <AkiraS> i didn't get much time to use kouma, i was fighting a Crescent Nanaya, and I was using F and H kouma
[06:34] <S-Blade> ooh whats H kouma like
[06:34] <AkiraS> so i pretty much only got to try out stuff for a little before he got on me
[06:34] <AkiraS> o ehhh
[06:34] <AkiraS> 22B it
[06:34] <AkiraS> is different
[06:35] <AkiraS> i didn't get to see it entirely but the dash
[06:35] <AkiraS> didn't occur
[06:35] <S-Blade> lol weird
[06:35] <AkiraS> i forgot to try out the downward kick
[06:35] * Alzarath has joined #MBAC
[06:35] <AkiraS> that was in the video by Sega
[06:35] <AkiraS> th downward EX*
[06:35] <S-Blade> did the 236bs in koumaF
[06:35] <S-Blade> are they his old ones
[06:35] <S-Blade> or new ones
[06:35] <AkiraS> o
[06:35] <AkiraS> old ones
[06:35] <S-Blade> ic
[06:35] <AkiraS> maybe A mght be different though
[06:36] <S-Blade> koumaC has the new ones then
[06:36] <S-Blade> maybe they want koumaF players to use his current japanese combo
[06:36] <S-Blade> lol
[06:36] <AkiraS> forgot what else i was trying
[06:36] * Voomers has joined #MBAC
[06:36] <S-Blade> 1f link bnb ftw

[S-Blade]

Time for a formal change post.

Note: I will not be commenting on koumaH. He's clearly supposed to be easy to learn and easy to play at lower levels of play and there isn't enough footage of him released yet. He looks pretty crappy so far, with a weird almost unorganized mix of koumaC and koumaF moves and heavily, heavily nerfed damage.

New moves for both koumaC and koumaF
-j.214x. His downward flame kick. We already know a lot about this move, that one version pops him back up, another continues him to the ground, and the EX version does a lot more damage. An addition is that it's confirmed that you can follow this up on CH.
-Uppercut launcher. He does an uppercut launcher that looks a lot like an AA grab, but launches, and is much faster and a lot better than 6c (which both versions still have). I'm not sure if this is a command normal or a special because so far it's been done in various points in combos, particularly after koumaC's rekkas, and even after his 6c.
-Command airdash. It is what it is. It's probably most useful as your first airdash to get in, or your second airdash to get out.
-Modified 22x. 22c is WAY bigger and will -definitely- hit your opponent. 22b supposedly has no dash afterwards.
-236c does a lot less damage now. It might be useless.

Kouma: Full Moon
New move- AA grabs. 623x. These are interesting. 623a is fast, less damage, and gives you oki. 623b is slower, but does more damage and a weird techable groundbounce. 623c is fast and has the extra damage and techable groundslam. Here's basically how it goes down: Midscreen, you groundstring into 623a and do a sandoori-type oki. In the corner, you can actually get a tech punish setup off the B and C versions, and if they don't tech you can OTG....into 623a or 623c. So, with meter, a corner combo would look like.... groundstring 623b OTG 623c OTG 623a corner oki. It's a lot of damage, and you get an oki. Not 100% sure if 623c is still like heavenly pot buster and sucks in a huge amount of stuff above and in front of it.

Basically, koumaH is the most like MBAC Kouma. However, he loses a lot on his pressure game despite being mostly unchanged. This is because Full Moon style doesn't let you rebeat, which Kouma heavily depended on to have a great pressure game.

Kouma: Crescent Moon
New move- new rekkas, two hits with a pretty good hitbox. Can be followed up with that uppercut move.
New move- j.B. Gogo aircombos.
New move- 5bb. It has a weird follow up like that. More hits, more damage, more pressure, etc.etc.
Modified move- 623x. j.236x and 623c look to be totally the same, but if you look carefully in the videos, his old non-EX ground hotfoot is still there.....but he doesn't leave the ground. It's just the kick. Hella weird.

koumaC is much less dependent on grappling (214a is heavily nerfed, much less damage and no oki) and much more dependent on pressure and frametraps. Like someone in irc mentioned, he's Nanaya on steroids. He was given more moves so that he could keep up pressure longer before having to restart the pressure. His movement is faster and overall better in order to accommodate this. His damage per move is nerfed but his overall damage is more or less unchanged because of air combos. Typical combos in recent videos have looked like so: groundstring (like, 2aa 5bb 2b 5c) 2c rekka rekka uppercut jumpcancel j.bc dj.bc j.214x. I haven't seen an airthrow ender on an aircombo yet, I'm not too sure why (half the time they don't get that far lol). koumaC will probably also get more meter (but not as much as koumaF in the corner)

[S-Blade]

Yeah, koumaC still has a 623 but has the uppercut as well. In addition, 2c rekka rekka uppercut has already been demonstrated in videos and if that was the AA grab, it would grab (and not launch)

It's probably either 3c or 4c.

[Pfhor]

The new 5a (overall nerf):
Goes a little farther for the price of not hitting high up directly above him anymore, which is a pretty critical and useful area to have a move, but he no longer has it and will probably have to use 22a to hit that area if he needs to (not good)

Kouma's 5a does not hit directly above him in MBAC.

http://pfhoraphobia.googlepages.com/Kouma5a.jpg

It doesn't even pass his head.

[S-Blade]

not necessarily, it's probably about the same or maybe a bit worse (new 5a doesn't miss certain crouchers anymore so you can't do 5a whiff 214a tricks anymore)

and yeah even though it doesn't pass all that high above him, it's high for most 5a's and can still be used to control the general area just on top of him because the opponent's hitbox comes into it. next time someone comes in from a high angle with a less than decent jumpin, mash 5a. this won't work with the new 5a

also, Xie corrected me like a week ago, his new 5a only seems to apply to crescent, and not full which is cool

in the end it doesn't really matter since it's all pretty minor and it doesn't look like there's going to be a way to make this seem at least fairly significant

[okuhoshi]

best FM clip so far?

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=WEv2SaAFTg4

[S-Blade]

nice find. whoever is playing that koumaF is showing pretty well how his gameplay is gonna look like (without cool otg grabs in the corner a la sacchin). he's also pretty damn good

anyway i noticed a couple other things in that video

-first, i was wrong about that uppercut thing. at least for koumaF, it does look like it's some odd hit portion of 623x that looks like it sometimes doesn't like to grab. thing is, koumaC still has it yet he doesn't have the AA grabs. so it might very well still be separate moves (seems unlikely judging by the use of the move shown in the video) same sprite. anyway, weird oddity not going to mean too much hopefully
-koumaF third hit rekka. he actually has two options for that third hit, the regular jumping hit and it looks like when charged (or maybe the option is just chargable) does one of his new rekkas. seeing how its charged i have a feeling it'll have some weird extra property.....anyway i have a feeling the command would look like aoko's 123 (i.e. 236b236b236b and 236b236b214b or something)
-you can still link 5a after 236c
-you can seriously get sandoori oki off anything not in the corner....scary shit

[Kamina]

ermmm was at CF today and yesterday playing MBAA, the 3rd hit on Kouma's rekka hits low though yeah you can choose whether to end it normally with that 236 A/B overhead or not or at the end pull out 236c and hit low. I guess thats kinda making it up for the fact that theres no rebeats, you can continue something from there, but imo I think F-Kouma is mostly for people who wanna stagger in their blockstrings, though I cant say much, still gotta get used to playing stick here lol, also im thinking that crescent is gunna be mostly people who are hungry for that offense and Full is pretty much defensive seeing how theres no rebeats so you cant really go back in for a blockstring and pressure, soo its definately something different in store for Kouma people, but till I can get 623 down on stick I wont be ready for F-Kouma just yet.

[Ultima66]

Eh I played a bit of Kouma C today.

Yes, his damage output is now HUGE. 5BB hurts, his 2C 5C hurts a lot, and he can use Rekka as a launch after doing 2C 5C or something. I played Sacchin F and Wlen F and don't feel like I have anything to add for those characters, but there's 1 small thing I'd like to add for Kouma.

Since I suck at stick I hit up on accident when doing 214 or 236. Turns out most of the time when doing 214C I'd get 2147C for... interesting results. TK 214C beats out a TON of stuff and doesn't get countered by jumps. On the other hand, you CAN go over them, so take it as you will. I did a lot of TK 2369C on accident too, and TK j.214C IS better than j.236C, if anyone did those as reversals before.

[Kamina]

I played some more Kouma C myself today, and saw that at the end of his rekka, the 4th hit, is like his 623 for F Kouma, where he holds you up and this one tosses the opponent, where they can tech out, though I'm not sure if you can go into OTG after that but its another grab at the end of the rekka, soo its like 236A 236B 236C 236C. Still gotta figure out how F-Kouma's 22A B changes, because there the regular version thats like 22a and then another version thats 22B and then one that sets up a fake dash. Also in C-Kouma he has the 3 different kicks, 623A for the one where he stays on the ground, 623B is where he goes up in the air like MBAC Kouma's 623A and then 623C is like MBAC Kouma's 623B. Hmm wonder if 623A would still hit low if youre close enough....

[BurstOfAnger]

Just wanted to throw a question...

Does F-Kouma's 2A hit low?

[Apocalypse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Rdauhqme4&feature=channel

At 8:41-8:42, Kouma's 22A reflects Warc's Blood Ring.  Does anybody know if this was situational, or if it would apply to other projectiles as well?

[Psylocke]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7326378
MBAA Kouma combo clips, all moon styles

[4r5]

anyone try the first combo that the Kouma player does in this vid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOVXcYgn0qI

2B-2C>236A>236A>236[C], 2A...

I'm in training mode trying to do this on Akiha, but the 2nd rekka keeps whiffing under her. Am I missing something, or practice more noob?

[Psylocke]

I have a lot of trouble with this combo too, but I believe the input is supposed to be
2b2c 236b236b delay 236[c] 2a
the 236b rekkas should be done quickly in succession, and there should be a delay before the 236[c] so that it connects, but not too much of a delay so that the opponent is too low to the ground for 2a link afterwards. 

[4r5]

I tried using B rekkas off the 2C and the 2nd rekka still whiffs.

I just did AAA2AB2B2C>236B>236B and it connected. I guess it's a gravity thing? But that still doesn't explain how he connected the rekkas off just a 2B2C

edit: oh wait, he probably delayed the first rekka after 2C. I guess I'll give it a shot.


edit again: ah, yeah. delay it. 

[terrybogard]

That F-Kouma combo is a pain!  Took me more than 10 hours (cumulative, not straight. ) to figure how to do that combo more consistently.

But you got it, you need to delay the first rekka just a little after doing 2C.  Here's one tip on how to do it consistently:  You actually need to do the 3 rekkas in succession once you start the first one (no delays), with 236C charged.  So I would suggest using 236A x 2 then 236[C] instead.  You will notice that Kouma will have less "lag" afterwards (or its probably just me) and you can link that darn 2A.

Practice it on Nero as he's an easier target with this combo.

Edit1:  Random accidentally picked Warc while I was doing some pratice and apparently, my tip above doesn't work with her.  It does for most characters though (even the the 2 necos, shiki and nanaya).  I can't really do the combo consistently on Warc.  It seems you need to also delay 236[C] for a little tiny bit, which I screw up 90% of the time.  IMO, not really worth it.  I would suggest to stick with F-Kouma's bnb (2A x n, 2B, 2C, 6C, j[C], dj[C], land, 623 A/B)  when playing against Warc.

I'm trying to practice the OTG after this combo (I usually do 2A x 2, 5C, 623 B after the combo above).  I tried doing it the kaimaato way (OTG 2A x 3 or 4, 2B, 5C, 623A), but 623A doesn't usually grab the opponent (it hits them though).  I'm guessing its more of the hit factor... I've already hit the opponent too much that he/she didn't float enough for 623A to catch.  Anyway, you guys have any better alternatives?

Edit2:  Got some time to do some practice a while ago.  Found out that you need to actually press/mash 2As as fast as you can (doing kaimaato's OTG) in order for 623A to connect on your OTG after Kouma's 8+ hit combos.  That mashing kinda messes up my timing.  

[Exciel]

Why didn't you guys ever tell me Kouma's 22 series reflect projectiles?