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Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Actress Again => Len => : Press August 26, 2009, 03:07:58 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
-
Nobody cares or plays Len except for me and maybe a few others >.>
MBAC -> MBAA general changes.
j.C no longer has it's massive hitbox. It's still big, but sometimes when you expect to hit someone with it, it doesn't.
Fuzzy guards are much easier to do now. Careful with the super jump cancel while double jumping though.
Yay! Len can throw in the direction inputted for the throw now. This makes her throw option while facing the corner much more dangerous as it can lead to decent damage plus knock down :slowpoke:
F-Len
Just a note, I interchange between triangles and reflectors. That's just me, they both mean the same thing.
MBAC -> MBAA changes
No longer has her ice which is replaced with a sparkly ball that's mostly used as a blockstring ender
No longer has her cat/tincats which is replaced with spinning triangles :psyduck:
5a is no longer 2 hits
2b range has been increased.... alot
623a/b no longer has her twirly dance before the kick
623c no longer wall slams, but instead launches them straight up for a combo
5c(5hits) is actually usable in her combos now
Short Summary
Unlike before, she's more of a pressure type character. She plays with the threat of trianlges locking down projectiles by reflecting them or hitting people into triangles, since combos off reflectors deal massive damage without the need of meter. Without the aid of cats to zone, she abuses her triangles as much as possible to maintain space and to manipulate people's movement.
Specials
236a A sparkly ball. Comes out quite fast. One hit and usually used for blockstring ender. This one moves slowish. Gives you time to restart pressure since it covers you during the move recovery. Super cancellable on hit, block and wiff. Note: Although it's super cancellable, you can't super cancel into 236c. Same is true with 236b
236b A faster moving sparkly ball. Used to mix up the speed with her 236a. Also super cancellable on hit, block and wiff.
236c EX version of that same sparkly ball. Used to super cancel out of other specials such as 214a/b This one moves at the same speed as her a version and has 4 hits
214a/b You may only have one out on the ground and in the air for a total of 2 at anytime. Stays out for 16 and 2/3rds spins or approximately 26 seconds. This move is also super cancellable, so you can do things like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqyIkzOwcvs) to reinforce your pressure. A very important feature to know about F-Len's 214a/b and j.214a/b is that when you hit the opponent into a triangle, the triangles will become a hit box and it'll hit hard and wallslam or launch. I'll state which way they get wallslammed or launched in each specific move.
214a A spinning horizontal triangle. This move, when the oppoenent is hit into, wallslams in the SAME direction in which you put out the reflector. For example, if you were facing the left side when you put out the reflector, then it wallslams left. Reflects certain projectiles while it's out. A list of what can be reflected with this move can be found here (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/len/f-len%27s-reflecter/)
l
-> 214a Using this while a triangle is out will make it move towards the opponent. If you have two out (one in the air and one on the ground) it will move both. It now becomes a hit box wall slamming the opponent in the SAME DIRECTION of how the reflector is moving if they get hit.
214b A spinning vertical triangle. This move, when the opponent is hit into, launches the opponent straight up. Doesn't reflect =[
l
-> Same thing happens if you used 214a while a triangle is out. B version only moves up
j.214a Same as 214a except in the air.
j.214b Same as 214b except in the air, it moves down when you "set it off" and when the opponent is hit into it, it slams them straight down.
Important note: Learning to fully utilize F-Len's 214 series as well as when to use the a version or b version is the key to her game. Without it, F-Len has very little if not any pressure and setups.
214c EX reflector. Moves towards the opponent, has 6 hits and does not wallslam. Stays out significantly shorter than the normal versions and reflects the same things as 214a. You can only have one out at anytime, even if one's in the air.
j.214c Same as 214c except in the air. You can only have one out at anytime, even if one's on the ground.
These moves, when used correctly, can allow for some interesting combos.
Here's an example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACIe1CO7_A)
A much more probable example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmoFCYJTbDY) lol
623a The ending round house kick of the old 623a from MBAC. This is the launcher of choice. Also super cancellable. You can super cancel on hit, block or wiff, so if you accidentally do this instead of 236a or something, you can just super cancel into 236c to keep it safe.
623b The ending round house kick of the old 623b from MBAC. This move wallslams. This is the launcher you want to use when you have reflectors on the other side of the screen or when your in the corner, have done a reflector oki and then confirmed into a combo. If you're totally confused, here's some examples:
Double Reflector (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiQ2Y1UP158)
Corner setup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8srBVIFgX7I)
623c This is the same as the 623c from MBAC except it doesn't wallslam. Instead it's now jump cancellable so you can combo after it. As to when to use this move, I dunno random wakeup super? Doesn't have very many invincibility frames. Then again it is like pretty much the only reversal F-Len has so w/e :psyduck:
Note: You can IH out of all her specials(non ex).
Combos
F-Len doesn't have many combos. Most of her funky combos come from randomly hitting reflectors for the relaunch. If there's ever a reflector that'll reflect towards you, throw them into it for more damage.
All damage tested on VSion with critical hits turned off
(5a) 5c(5) 3c 623a j.bc j.bc AT 4659 dmg
Generic BnB. As you can see it does quite the damage for little effort.
(5a) 5b 5c(2) 3c 623a j.bc j.bc AT 4783
If you poke and hit someone with a 5b, this is the combo to use.
5b 5c(4) 3c 623a j.bc j.bc AT 5017 dmg
If you manage to get them in the corner, like with a tech punish or something, use this combo.
(5a) 5c(4) 3c 623a j.bc j.bc AT 4516 dmg
When you just can't fit that 5th hit in. Sure it does 100 dmg less, but if you feel like you can't fit that last hit in, use this.
(5a) 5c(4) IH 5c(4) 3c 623a j.bc j.bc AT 5176 dmg
Lol IH to add like 500 dmg to your BnB. I guess you can use this if you really need that heat combo.
2b 5c(5) j.bc j.bc AT 3431 dmg
Used when you hit with 2b
Throw into corner 5a 5c(4) j.bc j.bc AT 2550 dmg
Standard throw combo
Throw(anywhere) 3c 623a j.b double jump j.bc 2215 dmg
Shitty damage, but it finishes off the opponent if a throw just doesn't quite kill them.
623c j.bc j.bc AT 4415 dmg
If you actually hit with this wakeup super, here's the combo :psyduck:
Blockstrings
Uhh... whatever -> 3c 236a?
Seriously, she has like 5 things she can do for a blockstring. Since she can pretty much super cancel out of all her specials on hit, block or wiff. This tree explains what you can do, though I won't add in what you can do with IHs.
5c 3c ->236a -Generic blockstring ender that actually gives you enough time to dash back in or IAD in to continue pressure when your in the corner.
l l
l ->214c -To force blocking.
l
->236b -To mix it up with something a bit faster. You don't have enough time to continue pressure, unless they weren't expecting a faster one and got hit.
l l
l ->214c -To force blocking so you can continue pressure.
l
->214a/b -To setup a reflector(duh) Use when you have it engraved in their minds that you will 236a
l l
l ->214c -For making people hesitate on whether to poke out or not.
l l
l ->236c -To force blocking and to hit people who try to poke out.
l
->623a -Why would you do this?
l
->236c Perhaps the above was a misinput, here's how you make it safe. Delay a bit before inputting to avoid accidental 623 inputs
l
->214c Maybe you did it on purpose for major mind games so you can set them up for this.
Hopefully that tree wasn't too difficult to understand.
Mixups/Okizeme
Sorry about the unorganized mixups section. I find new things almost everyday, so I just tack them onto my list here.
- Fuzzy guard is still IAD j.b/c double jump j.c j.2c 5a -> combo
- 2b's range is pretty large now. You can poke and prod with it. Random 2b's lead to free reflector setups which is always nice.
- After some more match experience, I feel that it's much better(and safer) to punish techers instead of straight up doing a 214a/b. Simply use 2b if you see a no tech, back tech, or neutral tech then stick out that reflector. If you see a forward tech, you can easily punish with 2a 5c -> combo.
- You can choose to cancel your reflector with 236c or 214c if you think they might neutral tech, back tech or no tech. This forces them to block allowing you to do your mixups and fuzzy guard.
- 5b is always an option if you feel they might tech. This covers forward and neutral tech if you dash in a bit for a free combo.
- 2a 2b is a good way to punish a forward tech for a free reflector setup.
- Other than that, most of her mixups come from the triangles. If you have one near you, you can choose to set it off and dash in throw or something.
- If the other player really likes to stay away from those triangles, take every moment to your advantage and charge that meter. Meter is very important for Len to super cancel her specials.
- When ending your blockstring/pressure, you can IH your ending special to mix it up a bit instead of always super cancelling.
- Since Len doesn't have many good uses for her IH and has poor hp, feel free to blood heat. It's an easy way to get that hp back and put the pressure on since people will now be wary of any BHAD and LA attempts which allows you to take full advantage of their hesitation.
- 5b is a very good poke for people who like to dash in on you while you charge your meter behind your reflectors. It's range is deceptive as it comes out fast and far. If you manage a hit confirm out of a far 5b, use 2b 4b/3c to combo because 5c won't connect properly.
- A funny thing to note, if you hit them with a 2b during otg state and you think they won't tech at the second opportunity that they now have, by all means BHAD THE SHIT OUT OF THEM, IT WILL HIT. You'll have to do the BHAD right after your 2b, so it's mostly a guess. If you guess right, they eat 4k. If you guess wrong, you eat a free combo. Only do this if you've hit them with 2b during otg at close range and they don't tech the second opportunity.
OTG Strings
2b Lol seriously, 2b has so much range, you don't even have to dash in so you can just use this and cancel into reflector or the sparkly ball. This is now what I use when I confirm a no tech.
2a 5c(2) 3c 214a/b or 236a/b
Here's a real one if you ever decide to dash in close enough to hit with 2a. You should really just punish the potential tech instead or put out a reflector.
C-Len
MBAC -> MBAA Changes
MY BLACK CAT WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Can only put down one black cat at a time :emo: :emo: :emo:
Increased black cat recovery :emo: :emo: :emo:
EX Ice black cat combo no longer works because of increased recovery :emo: :emo: :emo:
She now gains a 421D. This move starts like her teleport, but intead she becomes a giant purple hammer and smacks you.
Now has a 63214C move where she puts a floating orb that floats around you.
Her airthrow seems to now prorate more damage, so relaunch combos with airthrows is no longer worth the execution.
Short Summary
Plays like her MBAC counterpart except without being able to put out another blackcat, her powerful ground zone is no longer as strong. Since blackcat combos are no longer available, you now have to sacrifice the relaunch damage for the guaranteed knockdown. This however still doesn't give her the mid screen mixup she used to have which allowed for a decent 3 way okizeme. In the end you ask yourself, why do I even play this mode? Might as well play H-Len.
Specials
Note: Some moves and how to use them are refered to the old MBAC Len as the properties are either very similar if not identical. For more information on them please refer to bellreisa's guide (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/mbac-specific-82/kuroneko-san/).
236a Low icicle. Same as Crescent Len's 236a. If used as a blockstring ender, it's minus frames. Super cancelable on hit, block and wiff when the icicle is completely out. Hard to combo into 236c on reaction.
236{a} Charged low icicle. This move gives plus frames on block and is also super cancelable on hit, block and wiff. This move is usually used with a cat covering your charge. Using the partial charge is pretty useful for tech punishing. Usually followed up with 236c on hit for a combo.
236b Mid hitting icicle. Not super cancelable at all. I don't recommend using this at all.
236{b} Two mid hitting icicles. One is pointed 45 degress up and the other is just the same as her non charged version. This is usually used in EX ice combos. I wouldn't use it outside of combos except when looking to hit jumpers. Not air unblockable >.>
236c EX ice. Her main source of damage when used in a combo. No startup invinciblilty so I wouldn't recommend using this as a wakeup reversal
j.236a Icicle in the air.
j.236b Icicle in a slightly higher angle in the air
j.236c EX air ice. Use this move to punish techers or to hit people wiffing a move with long recovery from a far.
214a Randomly drop a cat between this pinkish cat that does nothing or a tabby cat that launches untechibly until they almost hit the ground. You can only have a maximum of 2 of either this or 214c out at anytime.
214b Randomly drop a cat between a black cat and a white cat. White cat will continue to push the opponent across the screen while the black cat will knock them down untechibly. You can only have one of these out at anytime. This does not add to the 214a and 214c count.
214b ~ b Ensure a black cat comes out.
214c Tin cat. Hits high on the way down and launches on the way up untechibly until they almost hit the ground. You can only have a maximum of 2 of either this or 214a out at anytime.
421a At least my teleport wasn't touched. Like the old version, disappears and reappears moving approximately 4 character spaces in the direction you were facing.
421b Jumps.... but doesn't.
421c Dashes in although not as far as it would seem.
421D LOL HAMMER. Here's what it looks like (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/akiha%27s-tea-room/sprites/msg50976/#msg50976). This move starts up like any other teleport would, then she turns into a huge hammer and smacks you with a fully untechable overhead. Can't ground tech this one folks. This move has very short recovery as she seemingly recovers right as she reappears. Enough time for you to actually dash in at max range and hit them with a 5a and combo. Though be careful as people can super out of this move on reaction. This move is also perfectly safe on block. :teach:
623a Twirly kick, same as MBAC Len's 623a. -2 on block. The last hit is also shieldable during the blockstring.
623b Twirly kick again. This one has longer start up and makes her jump further. You can now combo after the wall slam from the last roundhouse kick. Minus frames on block, so be prepared to eat a full combo if you use this in a blockstring.
623a/b ~ a Makes Len hop again hitting more times, but doesn't do her roundhouse kick. +1 on block.
623a/b ~ b Stops Len from doing the last roundhouse kick. Great for tickthrows, but the opponent can mash out quite easily.
623c A bit of startup invincibility. Can combo after if it hits them and they're in the corner. Not a very good reversal so I wouldn't use this much.
63214c This is a new move C-Len has where she puts out a floating orb that floats around you. This move has some interesting properties where they don't actually hit the opponent unless the other guy is in a combo. Anytime you attack them in such a way that hitting them would increase the combo counter, these orbs will hit them invalid or not. These orbs can easily increase the damage on your combos by around 100-200 damage per orb, but be careful using this move as it can easily screw up your launcher. Usually it won't since you'll have them out when you hit with 5c anyways. At most you can have 2 of these orbs floating around you at anytime.
Combos
All damage tested on VSion with critical hits turned off.
Note: Every EX ice combo can be used by H-Len. If you see an EX ice combo here not listed in the H-Len section, it is because either I forgot or it's not worth the meter.
(5a) 5c(4) 4b j.bc j.bc AT 3992 dmg
Standard meterless BnB. Doing 2b before 4b actually reduces the damage so you might as well stick with this one.
(5a) 5c(4) 2b xx 5b 4b j.bc j.bc AT 4193 dmg
Better meterless BnB combo. Slightly harder, but 200 more damage.
(5a) 5c(4) 4b 236c 236{a} xx 236{b} j.bc j.bc AT 4838 dmg
Generic EX ice into double ice combo.
(5a) 5c(4) 4b 236c 236{a} 2b 214c 4180 dmg
Guaranteed knockdown into rocketcat still works.
(5a) 2c 4b 236c 236{a} xx 236{b} j.bc j.bc AT 4189 dmg
For when you hit with 2b, which is one of her 3 low hitting moves.
(5a) 5c(4) 4b 236c x 236{a} j.c airdash AT 5a(1) 5c(5) j.bc j.bc AT 4952 dmg
Standard EX Ice relaunch combo in the corner.
2b 4b 2a(wiff) AT 5a(1) 5c(4) j.bc j.bc AT 3993 dmg
This combo is no longer worth it because of it's increased difficulty and weaker damage, but it's still here for anyone who want's to show off with it.
623c 5a(1) 5c(1) j.bc j.bc AT 4571 dmg
If you hit with 623c do this combo.
Throw into corner 5a(1) 5c(4) j.bc j.bc AT 2550 dmg
This is now a very usable combo since you can now choose the direction of your throw.
Throw into corner (3c/5a 5c(1)) 236c 236{a} 236{b} j.bc j.bc AT 3375 dmg with 3c
Standard 100% meter throw combo.
421D dash 5a(1) 5c(4) j.bc j.bc AT 4025
Lol we all need a hammer combo.
421D 5c(5) 236c 236{a} 236{b} j.bc j.bc AT 4891 dmg
Hammer + Double Ice? Sounds good.
421D 5c(5) 236c 421D 5c(5) j.bc j.bc AT 4797
Lool double hammer combo anyone?
Blockstrings
Not much different than her MBAC counterpart.
Try not to hit with more than two hits of her 5c as it's easily shield bunkerable
Instead of wiffing 5a or 2a you can now do 63214c which sets up a floating orb. This is just something to mix it up with though.
236a -> 236c still works, so you can stick that in there somewhere.
Mixups/Okizeme/Miscellaneous
- Fuzzy guard is still IAD j.b/c double jump j.c j.2c 5a -> combo
- New easier fuzzy gaurd: Jump forward j.cb double jump j.c j.2c 5a -> combo
- Because she now has a good overhead she can use, mixing in 421D at maximum range can often catch people who think you're just teleporting since your so far and thus score a free combo.
- Like the old MBAC Len, a partial charge 236a can catch forward techers after any mid screen combo.
- 236c is still a very effective way to catch all techers in the corner.
- tk j.236c is also still a good way to catch any forward techers at mid screen. Will also still otg them if they choose to not tech.
- Because of her weakened air normals, you have to be a bit more cautious when throwing out your j.c and j.a
OTG Strings
In this section, whenever you see ender, it means ending your otg string with a special of your choice. What you use is up to you and the situation at the time of you doing the otg string.
Enders of choice
214b{6}
214c
63214c
421D
623a~b
2a 5c(2) 2b 5b 4b ender
This is the one I was using in MBAC, but because 3c no longer connects in this otg string now, you can simply just end it early.
Because of her newly acquired loli hammer, you can now choose to end your otg string with 421D at anytime you think they'll neutral or back tech. This will smack them high as soon as the get up.
2b 5c(2) 5b 4b 3c ender
This otg string is much simpler to do and you can still stick in that 623a~b at the end if your close enough.
H-Len
Short Summary
Her style of play is a lot C-Len except better zoning. Without double black cat her ground zoning is still worst compared to that of MBAC Len. However, she gains better zoning in the form of j.236a/b
Normals
5b IT'S A LOW OMG!!! Comes out at 8 frames and hits OTG. This move is an amazing improvement from Crescent Len's 5b.
Specials
Most of H-Len's specials are the same as C-Len's.
236a Low icicle. Same as Crescent Len's 236a. If used as a blockstring ender, it's minus frames. Super cancelable on hit, block and wiff when the icicle is completely out. Hard to combo into 236c on reaction.
236{a} Charged low icicle. This move gives plus frames on block and is also super cancelable on hit, block and wiff. This move is usually used with a cat covering your charge. Using the partial charge is pretty useful for tech punishing. Usually followed up with 236c on hit for a combo.
236b Mid hitting icicle. Not super cancelable at all. I don't recommend using this at all.
236{b} Two mid hitting icicles. One is pointed 45 degress up and the other is just the same as her non charged version. This is usually used in EX ice combos. I wouldn't use it outside of combos except when looking to hit jumpers. Not air unblockable >.>
236c EX ice. Her main source of damage when used in a combo. No startup invinciblilty so I wouldn't recommend using this as a wakeup reversal
623a Twirly kick, same as MBAC Len's 623a. -2 on block. The last hit is also shieldable during the blockstring.
623b Twirly kick again. This one has longer start up and makes her jump further. You can now combo after the wall slam from the last roundhouse kick. Minus frames on block, so be prepared to eat a full combo if you use this in a blockstring.
623a/b ~ a Makes Len hop again hitting more times, but doesn't do her roundhouse kick. +1 on block.
623a/b ~ b Stops Len from doing the last roundhouse kick. Great for tickthrows, but the opponent can mash out quite easily.
623c A bit of startup invincibility. Can combo after if it hits them and they're in the corner. Not a very good reversal so I wouldn't use this much.
j.236a Air icicle that keeps the momentum of her air movement. This move is very useful for backing off defensively as well as keeping pressure on a cornered opponent. Mostly tk'ed. If you tk this move and hit at max range, you can't dash back in since Len's dash isn't very fast. Launches on hit.
j.236b Air icicle that hops you slightly up and backwards. Useful in some situations such as baiting reversals. I'd rather use j.236 though.
j.236{B} This charged icicle angles up about 45 degrees. Mostly used in her meterless combo for damage.
j.236c EX air ice. Use this move to punish techers or to hit people wiffing a move with long recovery from a far.
214a Randomly drop a cat between this pinkish cat that does nothing or a tabby cat that launches untechibly until they almost hit the ground. You can only have a maximum of 2 of either this or 214c out at anytime.
214b Randomly drop a cat between a black cat and a white cat. White cat will continue to push the opponent across the screen while the black cat will knock them down untechibly. You can only have one of these out at anytime. This does not add to the 214a and 214c count.
214b ~ b Ensure a black cat comes out.
214c Tin cat. Hits high on the way down and launches on the way up untechibly until they almost hit the ground. You can only have a maximum of 2 of either this or 214a out at anytime.
421a Disappear and reappear in the same spot. You can hold a for her to stay vanished for as long as you hold the button or 6 seconds (6 sparkles including the initial one). You can get hit in the place you were before you vanished.
421b Disappear and reappear about 3 character spaces infront. You can hold b for her to stay vanished for as long as you hold the button or 6 seconds (6 sparkles including the initial one). You can get hit in the place you were before you vanished.
421c Disappear and reappear directly above where you vanished at about the height of a jump. You can hold c for her to stay vanished for as long as you hold the button or 6 seconds (6 sparkles including the initial one). You can get hit in the place you were before you vanished.
Combos
Important note: In MBAA, they have added a new universal super jump canceling thing. Remember Tohno Shiki and Nanaya back in MBAC and how they could do what people dubbed as a super jump cancel? This was how Nanaya players fixed their ever present problem of not being able to hit with that second j.c In MBAA all characters now has this so called super jump cancel. The trick to doing it is to hit jump right as you hit the other player or input 2 9. This will make you jump higher from your jump cancel. This is important to know because it becomes easier to link her second j.bc into AT in H-Len's most powerful meterless midscreen combo.
As per usual, all damage tested on VSion with critical hits turned off.
Note: All of C-Len's EX ice combos still work and is still Len's most damaging meter combo.
(5a) 5c(4) 4b j.bc j.bc AT
Generic bnb combo stolen from MBAC/C-Len.
(5a) 5c(4) 4b 236c 236{a} xx 236{b} j.bc j.bc AT 4838 dmg
Generic EX ice into double ice combo.
(5a) 5c(4) 3c 236c 236{a} xx 236{b} j.bc j.bc AT 5157dmg
Does more damage than the generic double ice combo. Also doesn't reverse beat.
Throw 3c xx 4b jump, double jump j.b AT
Midscreen throw combo.
(5a) 5c(4) 2b xx 5b 4b tk.236{b} 29(super jump forwards) j.bc sj(air superjump cancel) j.bc AT 4322 dmg
Flashy and decent damage. This is probably her most damaging midscreen meterless BnB. Try to delay the 2b -> 5b as much as possible to make the air combo later connect right.
(5a) 5c(4) 2b xx 5b 4b j.bc sj(air superjump cancel) j.bc AT 4193 dmg
If you can't do the tk combo, you can do this one.
(5a) 5c(4-5) 623b xx 5a 5c(2) j.bc j.bc AT 4745 dmg
One of her most damaging meterless corner combo
2b xx 4b 2a(wiff) AT [6aaa 2a(wiff) AT] x2 6aaa j.bc j.bc AT
Corner combo. Hard as fuck for moderate damage. Wheeeee
Not even sure it works on the entire cast. At least it's meterless.
2b xx 4b 2a(wiff) AT 6aaa 623a 236c 236{a} 236b{b} j.bc j.bc AT
Corner again. This time it's a bit easier than the one above, uses 100% AND does less damage. Fuck this shit.
2b xx 4b 2a(wiff) AT [6aaa 2a(wiff) AT] x2 6aaa 236c 236{a} tk236{b} j.b AT
Another stupid corner combo. Slightly more difficult than the meterless corner combo. More execution and 100% meter for like 200-300ish more damage. Seriously, fuck these combos.
Anytime you do ...236c 236{a} in the corner, instead of doing the relaunch, you can do j.c airdash AT and go into the 6aaa loop.
Blockstrings
OTG Strings
H-Len doesn't really have a need for OTG strings since you're better off fishing for tech punishes. However, in the case that you need to use one to kill off an opponent...
5b 5c(2) 5a 6a 2b 3c 623a~b (Yoshino's OTG string)
Mixups/Okizeme
- After any mid screen 236c combo, instead of choosing to relaunch you can use 2b and 421a/b/c. This gives you a simple teleport mixup.
- Alternate fuzzy guard: j.cb double jump j.c j.2c ... combo
I dont think the corner crossups have been mentioned here either. If you do a combo to ex ice (stuff > 3c 236c), you follow up with 236[a] 2c(whiff). The 2c pushes your opponent out of the corner a bit, at which point you can run sj dj 4a+b. If you do the motion fast enough, your opponent wont have much time to recognize which way Len is facing, and you come down on them forcing them to block the other direction. Other options include sidestepping through your opponent, and airdodging over them.
To keep your opponent on their toes w/ the mixup, instead of running 2c(whiff) at the end, run 3c(whiff). 3c(whiff) doesn't push them out of the corner, and you run similar setups which now confuse your opponent as to what the hell is going on.
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Double Dorito combo is so cool I'm going to use F-Len :toot:
The only one I played much far was actually H-Len because I find tk j236's damn useful and 4B 2369{B} combos look really cool.
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Thanks for the info, I'm loving F-Len.
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Lol, yea F-Len is fun. Especially when you play against characters that have projectiles that you can reflect. Like Warc =D Especially C-Warc. Makes them think twice before using those blood rings and that huge ring she has :teach:
I just think the hardest part about F-Len is knowing when and where to put out those reflectors, as they are the key point to her pressure game. Guess that just comes with experience.
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Edited the mixups section for F-Len in the first post. Pretty much forget doing 214a/b at the end of a corner combo and go for the tech punish or OTG.
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afaik, you've got it backwards, and you should be playing H-Len over C-Len >_>
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Nah, H-Len doesn't have a magical overhead hammer that's safe on block =]
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BUT SHE CAN DISAPPEAR FOREVER :psyduck:
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I has seen the light. I will now commence my learning of H-Len. Watching this vid again has made me reconsider. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOvjIvA2PMg
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hlen is tons of work for small payoffs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3c86C9Ruag
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Are you sure it's impossible to continue that last combo with an added j.bc? Or is it just too much effort and not worth the time lol. Also could you translate those combos with any delay or w/e notes so I can stick them into the OP? Thanks in advanced.
EDIT: Nvm, I got the combos. Any notes or w/e are still appreciated.
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gravity is the problem with the throw loop, you end up scaling so much that the dummy can tech a j.a before you airthrow
plus the timing for the combo is difficult, even yoshino dropped it a few times. i would personally just go for tk236(b) bnb off 2b 4b, since these combos were done on wala so dropping is more likely to happen against other charas with smaller hitboxes. other charas also have more vitality so the extra 1200 or so damage gets reduced down to 800 or something, not worth it imo
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When and if I ever manage to do that last combo in your vid consistantly, I'm gonna go ahead and see if I can stick a 236{b} in there to be greedy XD
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When and if I ever manage to do that last combo in your vid consistantly, I'm gonna go ahead and see if I can stick a 236{b} in there to be greedy XD
already did it, doing 236(b) puts them too low for followups and the gravity scales so much you can't get an airthrow off consistently
btw i only did these combos to see how exactly they were done, i really don't like len anymore for this exact reason, you have to work way too hard with her and she doesn't get enough reward for it. for the effort i spent in making these videos i could've learned hvsion's bnb and dealt 150% the damage for less effort and time
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Damn, it seems you've beaten me to the greed XD
Lol, play C-Len or F-Len instead then. I find F-Len to be fun cuz she's so different. Sure she loses alot of her pressure, but the sheer amount of fear the triangles puts people in is nice. Plus 4.6k dmg for no effort is neat.
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Damn, it seems you've beaten me to the greed XD
Lol, play C-Len or F-Len instead then. I find F-Len to be fun cuz she's so different. Sure she loses alot of her pressure, but the sheer amount of fear the triangles puts people in is nice. Plus 4.6k dmg for no effort is neat.
sorry, not interested, len is done for me
i might play flen if some jp player comes out with nice shit for her, i don't want to put the effort into making a bottom tier character decent again
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Do do do, triple reflector combo... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ2e-vCqv9Q)
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Do do do, triple reflector combo... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ2e-vCqv9Q)
learn to hyperlink
fixed it for you
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Lol, didn't really double check it, thanks for the fix
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I love you.
Really, I think I do. Just for this guide. I love you.
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Lol me
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After playing more matches with C-Len today, I realized that I missed perhaps the most important thing for Len which I can't believe missed before. Like seriously, this impairs her gameplay so much I had to just straight up switch to F-Len because it was such a horrible horrible discovery, which at this point I'm still wondering how I missed such an important factor that has been changed since MBAC.
Her 5a can no longer be wiff canceled into 5c or any other move at that. :slowpoke:
As if nerfing her black cat to hell and back wasn't good enough. They took out a simple mechanic that every other character in the entire fucking game has.
Fuck C-Len and H-Len. Go play F-Len. She has big damage for no effort what so ever and she can wiff cancel her goddam 5a into another move like any other character. Hell, she's probably the only character that you can BHAD like every match and it would be a totally valid tactic and not make you feel like your just dicking around and fucking with your opponent.
what does "wiff cancel 5a into 5c" even mean
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After playing more matches with C-Len today, I realized that I missed perhaps the most important thing for Len which I can't believe missed before. Like seriously, this impairs her gameplay so much I had to just straight up switch to F-Len because it was such a horrible horrible discovery, which at this point I'm still wondering how I missed such an important factor that has been changed since MBAC.
Her 5a can no longer be wiff canceled into 5c or any other move at that. :slowpoke:
As if nerfing her black cat to hell and back wasn't good enough. They took out a simple mechanic that every other character in the entire fucking game has.
Fuck C-Len and H-Len. Go play F-Len. She has big damage for no effort what so ever and she can wiff cancel her goddam 5a into another move like any other character. Hell, she's probably the only character that you can BHAD like every match and it would be a totally valid tactic and not make you feel like your just dicking around and fucking with your opponent.
what does "wiff cancel 5a into 5c" even mean
Guessing 5a wiff, gatling to 5c?
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Oh man, sorry bout that lol. Seems I was over reacting and jumped to conclusions. She could never do it in the first place >.>
And I mean like wiff your 5a, but cancel in to 5c right after
Because of the confusion my blunder might have caused, have a ridiculously easy fuzzy gaurd.
Jump forward, j.cb double jump j.c j.2c Works with all Lens except Full moon
Also:
Another corner throw combo for C-Len added. This one actually does some decent damage, considering how much the damage is reduced due to the air throw, at the cost of 100% meter.
More damaging meterless combo for C-Len.
Notes for C-Len:
Black cat is now very difficult to use due to the increased recovery. Throw out the loli hammer in conjunction with her other teleports. I find using the loli hammer right after a 421b fake jump helps make it hit often.
Anyways, sorry about the mixup and any confusion it may have caused.
Edit: Forgot to add, but Len can catch anyone with 3c off a midscreen throw. To the best of my knowledge, F-Len is the only one that can do a semi combo off a throw into 3c with 623a j.b double jump. j.b j.c
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F-Len corner loop:
2B 623B j.7 66 AT [land 3C delay 623B j.8 AT] x n (until you drop it, basically)
You can also start with 3C 623B, add 5B before 2B, and the like. the delay between 3C and 623B is larger than you think. J.7 66 means jump away and IMMEDIATELY airdash at them. j.8 means jump straight up and IMMEDIATELY airthrow.
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F-Len corner loop:
2B 623B j.7 66 AT [land 3C delay 623B j.8 AT] x n (until you drop it, basically)
You can also start with 3C 623B, add 5B before 2B, and the like. the delay between 3C and 623B is larger than you think. J.7 66 means jump away and IMMEDIATELY airdash at them. j.8 means jump straight up and IMMEDIATELY airthrow.
Now is that an IAD? Like a 676 IAD? I've been trying to do that combo, but seemed like it doesn't work. I'll try that later when I have time. Once I figure it out, I'll edit the my first post and stick in a bit of pointers that go with it.
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Well, after some testing with Tare, we've discovered somethings about that F-Len corner loop. First, you can't really do more than like 3 reps since after that you're too far to continue. Second, we figured a different string which is not only easier to do, but also does more damage than just doing the loop 3 times.
(5a) 5c(4-5) 3c xx 623a 696 AT 3c 623b 9 AT 3c 623b 9 j.ab j.bc AT
Currently, I'm not sure if you can hit them with the j.a It seems like they tech too fast, so you might only wanna do one loops instead of 2. Honestly, I wouldn't spend too much time on this combo since it doesn't do a whole lot more of damage and is kinda difficult to do in a match since you have to be close to them and in the corner. F-Len doesn't really hit people that often with a 2a or 5a into 5c. Usually it's something like 5b which pushes you too far for the combo. Though it is nice to know this combo to be flashy ;D
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there's a vid of a geesendou player doing it more than 3 times, so i dunno what you're talking about
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there's a vid of a geesendou player doing it more than 3 times, so i dunno what you're talking about
I've seen that video which was one of the reasons I picked up F-Len lol
I can do a third rep, just that there's nothing I can do after and it doesn't do much extra damage. With only 2 reps, it looks possible to do a quick j.a into aircombo for more damage. I don't know about the arcade version, but in the Ps2 version, they tech real fast after just the second loop so doing a 3rd rep can't get you the air combo which does more damage than if you were to just do 3 reps. At the moment, I don't have that much time to work out the combo to see if I can link the j.a after 2 reps, but when I do, I'll see if I need to adjust anything for the j.a to hit.
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there's a vid of a geesendou player doing it more than 3 times, so i dunno what you're talking about
I've seen that video which was one of the reasons I picked up F-Len lol
I can do a third rep, just that there's nothing I can do after and it doesn't do much extra damage. With only 2 reps, it looks possible to do a quick j.a into aircombo for more damage. I don't know about the arcade version, but in the Ps2 version, they tech real fast after just the second loop so doing a 3rd rep can't get you the air combo which does more damage than if you were to just do 3 reps. At the moment, I don't have that much time to work out the combo to see if I can link the j.a after 2 reps, but when I do, I'll see if I need to adjust anything for the j.a to hit.
You could always turn it on Arcade Balance to make sure it's the game being different and it's not just you doing something wrong.
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Cool thing about F-Len:
Off of a throw, you can do
throw 5A 2B 5A 2B
on some characters, if you hold 6 the entire time so you walk forwards in any extra frames, you can do
throw [6] 5A 2B 5A 2B 5A 2B
Off of this you can toss a 236A late as a meaty, wait and toss out a 214A, toss out a 214B immediately, do 5C or 623A and combo, or dash in and do WHICH WAY mixups. The which way mixups are probably weak but this is just a cool little trick that's a lot of fun to do.
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2b xx 4b 2a(wiff) AT [6aaa 2a(wiff) AT] x2 6aaa j.bc j.bc AT
Corner combo. Hard as fuck for moderate damage. Wheeeee
Not even sure it works on the entire cast. At least it's meterless.
This really isn't that hard, I got it down fairly consistently in somewhere between 1 1/2-2 hours practicing it on Vsion(omitting last jb). Can you go into this off of shield counter?
EDIT: ffffff this is hype http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHJqKY6pNKs
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Between Rakuchan and the player in the vid linked below, I think I wanna learn a little H-Len:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv-HfCs5LkI
I was going to ask what were the normals used in the first match for that near airtight blockstring in the corner, but that'll just give me even more incentive to figure it out on my own first
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Holy shit that blockstring o. o...
It looks almost improvised the way he was using it throughout the match, but the first time he uses it roughly notates into : 5a 6a 5c(2) 2a 5c(2) 3c 4b 2a 5a 6a 3c 5c(2) 5a 6a 2a 5a 6a 3c
It also looks hype as hell.
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Throw into corner 5a(2) 5c(4) j.bc j.bc does 1803 damage on Vsion fully reduced and gives H-Len 46.5 meter and gives Vsion 19.7 meter
Throw into corner 5a6a airthrow [5a6aa 2a whiff airthrow] x 3 does 1933 damage on Vsion fully reduced and gives H-Len 52.5 meter and gives Vsion 43.0 meter
Throw into corner 2b 4b 2a whiff airthrow [5a6aa 2a whiff airthrow] x 3 5a6aa airthrow does 2283 damage on Vsion fully reduced and gives H-Len 71.2 meter but gives Vsion ~80 meter(wtf?)
Edit: Forgot to add, but Len can catch anyone with 3c off a midscreen throw. To the best of my knowledge, F-Len is the only one that can do a semi combo off a throw into 3c with 623a j.b double jump. j.b j.c
Old but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJMuOjo4VEM#t=7m51s
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At first, I really thought they took the nerf bat to len, but all in all, it could be a lot worse.
The loss of two black cat zoning is mitigated by the fact that you can have 3 cats total on the field. Namely, you can have 1 black cat and 2 Neco-Arc cats out at the same time. In MBAC, you could only have 2 cats out total in the field (i.e. 1 black cat, 1 neco-arc cat; 2 neco-arc cat, etc). This leads to some pretty cute field movement.
Neco-Arc cat is really awesome at shutting down jump-ins. You can pretty much make your way across the whole screen by laying down a black cat and following just ahead of it and laying down rocket cat as you move forward. If they try to SJ or jump-in on you, you can hope the rocket cat hits, or just backdash behind the black cat.
Problem is that she can't deal damage and dies without cats on the field. Reeze Baife in particular just kills len. Her long air-to-ground normals make it hard as hell to lay down a cat and you can't catwalk under her j.c either.
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Usually against Ries, I don't find her that threatening. Len has good air to ground options and can keep ries from moving for quite a while. Depending on the modes you chose, she has good options to go up close and irritate the hell out of people.
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Despite the fact that she can throw out 3 different cats, it doesn't really help the nerf she has on not being able to place 2.
Double black cat was extremely useful for ground zoning and if you get the chance, having them walk in different directions can really limit your opponents movement. Having her recovery retardedly increased makes it hard for one to put down cats at all. Since people who have Len match up experience can guess when one would put down a cat, they can rush down on you and punish before you can even get a chance to block.
Can't really explain well, but I just feel that not being able to have that second cat really makes it harder to zone with her. I guess that increased recover might also have something to do with it.
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melty bread is being dumb.
edit: It helps if you approach len (h moon at least) from a different perspective than zoning with cats.
H-Len has amazing staggers and pressure options once she gets in, and strong zoning options in her j.236a/b. The fact they gave Len more recovery time on setting a black cat is all the more reason to not depend on it (If you do a combo to airthrow midscreen and setup a black cat, your opponent can tech towards you and grab before the cat gets active frames.)
@lain : There's a lot of tricky/silly options you can do with midscreen 214c, starting with it being a ghetto antiair. The biggest problems with it is that it's hard to confirm off of the second hit, and you dont really get any damage or setups off of it either.
Something else I've been messing around with recently is ending small pressure strings with 214c. Short strings like 2a 5c(2) 214c generates enough pushback to dodge faster pokeouts like 2a, and vs longer sweeps, the 214c is persistent, so you should be able to stay ahead (I need to test this stuff more though...)
You'd think 214c would be good for oki, but midscreen they can backdash out of it (you can't bait it and punish with tk.236a because of recovery time), and really, why would you want to waste your opportunity of getting in on somebody when you're already working extremely hard to get in on most of the cast.
214c in the corner though is strong. Try to end strings with untech enders (like 5c(2) 5a6a 2b 5b 4b tk.214[ b] sj.bc6e land 5a 2b) into 214c oki. You get a free grab attempt, because if your opponent tries to break it, the second hit of 214c meaties them after the break. It also allows you to set up for fuzzy b/c tincat covers disrespect from your opponent.
You can try for 214c corner oki after a full airstring, and even after otg, but be aware that your opponent gets 2 chances to tech, and if he techs forward on either opportunity, the game goes back to neutral with your back to the wall if he techs after airthrow, and if he techs after 5b otg, you're eating a combo.
Speaking of otgs... Has anybody found any good ones? I've seen some people mess around with like 2a 5c(2) 5b 2b or something to that effect, but it never really seems solid. I don't see any good Len mains try to do that kind of stuff...
As far as damage is concerned, you're not going to be hitting massive 5k+ damage combos all game, but it's not like she has really shitty damage (I'm looking at you koha-mech.) Any full combos I'm hitting are averaging around 4k+ damage, which isn't bad. Once you have control, you have a really strong mixup game in your fuzzy and corner which ways.
I dont think the corner crossups have been mentioned here either. If you do a combo to ex ice (stuff > 3c 236c), you follow up with 236[a] 2c(whiff). The 2c pushes your opponent out of the corner a bit, at which point you can run sj dj 4a+b. If you do the motion fast enough, your opponent wont have much time to recognize which way Len is facing, and you come down on them forcing them to block the other direction. Other options include sidestepping through your opponent, and airdodging over them.
To keep your opponent on their toes w/ the mixup, instead of running 2c(whiff) at the end, run 3c(whiff). 3c(whiff) doesn't push them out of the corner, and you run similar setups which now confuse your opponent as to what the hell is going on.
vs Ries, you have to be patient. She flat out outranges you on most moves, except for your j.236a/b. Punish bad jumpins with 5c (but be careful that they don't bait it!) and zone with j.236a. Once you get a hit, get in asap on Ries, you don't want her to breathe. Be sure to watch Ries's meter though, so you don't eat 623c. Once you've got control, it's just business like usual.
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Speaking of otgs... Has anybody found any good ones? I've seen some people mess around with like 2a 5c(2) 5b 2b or something to that effect, but it never really seems solid. I don't see any good Len mains try to do that kind of stuff...
Most JP players I've seen would rather punish potential tech rather than run in for the otg. They simply use 5b since they can punish tech on reaction and just throw out 5b for extra damage without having to move if they no tech.
I dont think the corner crossups have been mentioned here either. If you do a combo to ex ice (stuff > 3c 236c), you follow up with 236[a] 2c(whiff). The 2c pushes your opponent out of the corner a bit, at which point you can run sj dj 4a+b. If you do the motion fast enough, your opponent wont have much time to recognize which way Len is facing, and you come down on them forcing them to block the other direction. Other options include sidestepping through your opponent, and airdodging over them.
Actually, the one I use is 236c 236{a} 2b 421a/b (hold a/b until wakeup). It's an easy cross up that I've seen Yoshino use a couple times. Though I'll try out the one you mentioned when I have time.
Punish bad jumpins with 5c
.... 5c does not win against Ries j.c or j.b
Infact 5c is a bad anti air in general, never was in the first place and even worse now that it no longer has it's ridiculous amount of clash frames.
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.... 5c does not win against Ries j.c or j.b
Infact 5c is a bad anti air in general, never was in the first place and even worse now that it no longer has it's ridiculous amount of clash frames.
I'll have to disagree with you here. The angles it covers and being air unblockable to prevent chicken block shenanigans makes it a decent antiair. It doesn't beat out Ries j.c though, you're right about that. However, I said use it to punish poorly spaced aerials and to be careful, not to throw it out as an auto win vs air moves (because it certainly can't do that.)
And as far as teleport gimmicks go, they're beatable on reaction. You have too much recovery time from the teleport to doing a move in order for it to be effective. You can however use 421c and get fuzzy off of it if you space it correctly (since 421c lets you actually do a move out of it in time for it to be useful.)
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5c as an anti-air is pretty limited. 5c and 5a do ok in shutting down IAD pressure if you telegraph it correctly. But catwalk shuts down IAD pressure too and both are equally risky. On neutral or super jump, I wouldn't risk it. If you're going to mash 5c on half-moon as an anti-air, you might as well mash shield and bank on the auto-counter.
edit: It helps if you approach len (h moon at least) from a different perspective than zoning with cats.
H-Len has amazing staggers and pressure options once she gets in, and strong zoning options in her j.236a/b.
I haven't tried her j.236 options very much but it does sound good. Zoning w/o cats though, even if it's just one black cat, is really hard. Len has no effective way to keep people out once they get in. She has crappy normals, lousy DP, and no range to speak of. So you can j.236a around to zone, but you lose a lot without ground control. Zoning with Len still hinges on her ability to have a black cat on the field. It's kinda like an insurance policy when you're backed into the corner
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And as far as teleport gimmicks go, they're beatable on reaction. You have too much recovery time from the teleport to doing a move in order for it to be effective. You can however use 421c and get fuzzy off of it if you space it correctly (since 421c lets you actually do a move out of it in time for it to be useful.)
I dunno what you're talking about, but the a version has very little recovery (almost right as you reappear). The b version has a bit more, but you have massive advantage after 236{a} 2b so you can easily time it meaty.
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And as far as teleport gimmicks go, they're beatable on reaction. You have too much recovery time from the teleport to doing a move in order for it to be effective. You can however use 421c and get fuzzy off of it if you space it correctly (since 421c lets you actually do a move out of it in time for it to be useful.)
I dunno what you're talking about, but the a version has very little recovery (almost right as you reappear). The b version has a bit more, but you have massive advantage after 236{a} 2b so you can easily time it meaty.
The problem is even if you meaty, it's very easy to react to, and since the point of a mixup is to confuse your opponent and get a hit... Doing things that are easy to react to a good mixup doesn't do. Len has so many stronger options than that. It just seems like a waste is all.
@ lain : If they do normal jumpins you have enough space to maneuver that you wont have to use 5c. Superjumpins work similar to iad because of the angle of approach your opponent has. Once again, I'll repeat that 5c isn't a cure all anti air, you have to use it intelligently, but it is there and it certainly isn't garbage. And mashing shield is a hell of a lot weaker... At least vs 5c they have to commit to a move or backing off (or shielding it...) all of which requires them to not autopilot (this is good) not to mention that 5c anti air leads to much more damage than a shield auto counter from proration :emo:
The trick to zoning with her 236 air options is to keep them as low to the ground as possible. I dont mean tk.236 (although these are very strong too!) but when you're falling and you want to keep the opponent at a range. Since Len's air normals are still fairly strong to space with, you'll find a lot of situations where you play air footsies with your opponent. Since you can't do shit after j.236a/b until you land, do them low so you minimize recovery and maximize control.
If you do sjtk.236a 5c btw, you have enough advantage for the 5c to beat out any mash (try it in training mode if you don't believe me.) You don't need to rely on cats as part of your approach strategy, especially with all the recovery time cats have and how easy it is to get around them.
Then again, I get punished for setting up black cat 100% of the time unless I do an untech knockdown ender, so you can see where I'd get the opinion that black cat is garbage.