Hey ike, I just finished reading through your guide and I thought I could point out a few things in your guide that are a little bit off. I've been playing H-Len since the game came out, so I think I can help you out a bit.
5A 5C(4 hits) 2B 4B TK236{B} jBC djBC AT
4100 on VSion. I guess the only reason to use this over the combo above is off a 5A hit, but honestly, the execution for a tk236{B} is stupid and the damage isn't much higher than Len's other BnBs. If you DO want to use it, you have to delay between the 2B and the 4B as much as possible, and throw out the tk236{B} pretty much instantly. Good luck. Oh, and you land after the 236{B}.
This combo actually isn't hard, especially in comparison to her throw loop which is match practical and you do need to learn to fuel her untech oki. You also don't need to confirm off of a 5a necessarily for it, which lets you add extra hits in. Confirm > 5a6aa 5c(4) 2b 5b 4b tk.236{b} land sj.bc dj.bc6e is optimal damage on this combo.
Also worth noting is any air combo you have can also be ended in dj.cb airdash 6e. You get slightly less damage but you push the opponent slightly closer to the corner as a result. This is important due to there being certain spacings where if you tk.236a, you can punish all techs, while moving closer to the other character for oki.
Throw xx 3C 5C(1hits) jBC djBC AT
Ridiculous, ridiculous link for about 2500 damage. Will put the enemy into the corner, I guess, but the link after 3C is VERY strict. Can be cancelled into an EX Ice combo instead for about the same damage. Useful if you need the damage, maybe. ONLY WORKS MIDSCREEN. You can also do 3C 5C(2hits) jBC djC AT for an easier combo overall and to get the AT to connect every time (for the same damage). The best time to try your 3C input is RIGHT after Len's sprite resets to normal - you can watch her twirl, and the graphical cue you're looking for is when her hair is done twirling. Generally at this time you can input 2-3 3C's and get the hit - just don't mash, or you'll come out late every time.
Throw to 3c is actually character specific midscreen, so if you've been having problems linking it vs some characters... that's why. It will work 100% of the time in the corner. It's useful to note that putting meter into her combos in the corner actually fuels her mixup game, which leads to potential damage. H-Len doesn't have much in terms of adding damage with meter.
In the corner, adding 236c 236[a] 2/3c whiff lets her have a sandoori mixup in the corner. Midscreen confirms into ex ice give you an untechable knockdown which is something H-Len really really needs to fuel her pressure, since it's so hard to get in.
2B 5B 5C(1hit) 236C 236[A] 5C(2hit) jBC jBC AT
You can repeat the {5C(1hit) 236C 236[A]} for as long as you have the meter, but the damage isn't quite worth it. Useful to note that this combo can also be continued off of a 236C used as anti-air. You have to cancel the 5C -RIGHT- after it connects.
Like I said earlier, you generally want untechable knockdown with H-Len, so any ex combo should lead to that. Outside of a raw 236c hit and 1 notable exception I'll get to in a bit, you're generally not adding much damage on any air combo followup.
TK236A -Land- 5C(1 hit) j.BC dj.BC AT
Good TK Ice approach. Does 4.2k on Warachia. The TK -MUST- be tight to the ground for the 5C to connect - it's not too hard of a link, but if you don't understand what's going wrong, this is probably it. The things below are WHAT TO DO IF YOU GET A COUNTERHIT (tm).
Approach? thought this was a combo... Anyways tk.236a is one of H-Len's best moves to confirm from because it doesn't prorate at all. This is the 1 exception I was talking about for ex ice. There's a ton of tk.236a combos actually ranging from stupid and impractical (confirm > 5c(2) tk.236a 5c(2) to either ex ice or an air combo), to automatic (5c after tk.236a on pressure is safe anyways and happens to confirm into a combo and basically leads to what you just listed.) Anyways, off of tk.236a confirms you almost always want to put meter into it if you can. tk.236a 5c(1) 236c 236[a] 2b 4b tk.236{b} sj.bc dj.cb airdash 6e just netted me just shy of 5k on hvsion. One last thing, when posting damage in a guide, keep the character you're beating up down to 1 character, preferably one with an average sized lifebar. We don't want to lie about how much damage our character is doing
TK236A -Land- 236C 236[A] 5C(2hits) jBC djBC AT
If you have the meter, this is an anywhere 5k damage combo. Only works off counter hit, sadly, but is still strong if you catch mashers on wakeup with your 236A.
See the previous note, 5c(1) after tk.236a makes you not need a ch for this combo to hit.
TK236A -Land- 5C(4hits) jBC djBC AT
This is your no meter counterhit option. Same combo as the normal TK236A combo, but the timing is MUCH easier (you can mash 5C and get it every time), and you get 4 hits of 5C, which is about 400~500 more damage for LESS execution. Again, only works on counterhit, sadly.
You don't need counterhit for this to work. Only hits for 4.3k on hvsion.
Corner
Throw xx 5A 5C(1hit) jBC djBC AT
The link for the 5A is strict. Generally I wait until I think it's time to hit the button and tap 5A twice. DON'T mash or your 5A will most definitely come out late. Sets up Len's strong corner tech punishes/mindgames (lawl).
Hahaha no. This link is extremely easy in comparison to some other combos you can do from throw. For example throw > 5c(2) 2b j.cb 6e land throw loop. This is nice as a basic combo from throw in corner though, it's just not that hard
623A 623C xx 5A 5C(1hit) jBC djBC AT
The timing is very similar to the timing above. Useful if you're using the 623A~A in the corner and they don't realize it's a frametrap. You have to cancel the 623A(~A) into the 623C DURING the kick - very hard timing to get down, but easy once you get it.
Just don't expect any big damage off of it
off of the last hit of 623a confirming into 623c and doing 2 reps of throw loop you're looking about about 3.7k at most vs hvsion.
Speaking of which, what's an H-Len guide without any mention of the throw loop
There's a ton of ways to get to it, all it takes is setting up a low airthrow in the corner. After 6e you land 5a6aa 2a(whiff) j.6e. That's another low airthrow, so you can go back into the throw loop. Eventually gravity scales it too hard for you to continue, at which point you do 5a 2b to end the combo with untechable knockdown. You can set low airthrow up from things like tk.236a 5c(1) j.6e, 623b/c 5a 5c(1) j.6e, or even 5a6aa 5c(4) 2b 5b 4b tk.236{b} sj.b~c6e.
Blockstrings (aka SHENANIGANS)
HLen has some REALLY strong blockstrings - most of them are somewhat gimmicky, but, for gimmicks, they're surprisingly safe. The gist of a strong HLen blockstring is that it is a string of some sort that ends with a 5A whiff which goes into a TK236A. It's a frame trap against people trying to mash out of your blockstrings, if it connects on hit or counter hit you get a combo, AND there are some REALLY silly crossup/tick throw shenanigans. I believe HLen is one of the only characters (if not the only character) who has tick throw setups ANYWHERE - and I mean ANYWHERE. Here's a sample HLen blockstring (anywhere on the screen).
Yo ikeTATARI, I’m really happy for you and I’m gonna let you finish… But I think you got the term frame trap mixed up with something else. First of all, H-Len 2a recovers faster than her 5a, making it better for her to whiff cancel with. More importantly, if you tk.236a and aren't doing tk8, you'll still get mashed out of. And if you do tk.8 you lose any confirm you'd have.
5B 5C(2hits) 5A(whiff) TK236A
Too many hits and HLen's blockstrings become bunker bait. This is a solid blockstring that doesn't push the opponent back TOO far. Now, here's the fun part - after the TK236A, you're in your opponents face again. You have a few options.
This would be more solid if it was guilty gear and you could jump cancel some of your normals on block. Also using 5b in any blockstring is increasing how much space you get pushed back if that's actually a concern.
...5B 5A(whiff) TK236A
Why cut the 5C? Why, because in the corner this is a strong tick throw setup (and if they're expecting the above blockstring they'll get caught by it because the ice animation stays on screen for longer than the blockstun, making it hard to catch even if you know it's coming), and because TK236A MIDSCREEN CROSSES UP a crouching opponent. Additionally, 5B is a LOW hit, so it can guarantee a crouching opponent for your midscreen crossup shenanigans. Things to do off of a crossed up TK236A:
5b has no blockstun, so staying close to your opponent at all after using 5b to whiff is asking for them to do something back. I don't like to bring it up, but think about what 99% of melty players joke about at some point or another (2a mash). If your strings flat out die to that, especially as easily as these ones would...
...2A+B Throw(on block)
Sounds stupid, but HLen has a dodge roll that crosses up. So you cross up, cross up AGAIN, and then throw them. If you do this fast enough, you get the throw while the Ice animation is STILL ONSCREEN. Useful if your opponent has proper fear of your Ice, and will catch an opponent who likes to try to poke out with things like mashed 2C or 2B. If they're mashing 2A, you CAN get hit out of this - after the first catch I suggest one of HLen's many other options. In the corner, take out the dodge roll - no crossup shenanigans for you. Also, if you know her midscreen throw combo (and you SHOULD know her corner throw combo), this can be some decent damage and a tech punish setup.
Please never use dodge in Len's pressure game. You can use it to look flashy on the sandoori mixup setup because you have enough time to meaty a 5a, but never use it vs a character midscreen when you're not doing oki. You can grab it on reaction or just mash 2a to punish it, and the sidestep animation is like 1.5 seconds long. It's not even remotely hard to punish.
...2A 5B...(on block)
If your opponent doesn't catch the crossup soon enough, this will catch them. If so, this turns into 2A 5B 5C(2hits) 4B etc etc. If they block this, it leads into another, you guessed it, 5A(whiff) TK236A. That TK is perfectly safe on block, folks, so if they try to mash out, you've got them.
tk.236a is safe on block, but the moves leading into it aren't. I feel that I have to repeat this a lot. If tk.236a happens to connect 5c is an autoconfirm. 2/5a will whiff and you'll sit around looking stupid. I feel like unless you have really good reaction or you got your opponent spooked enough to always block the ice it's better to throw out 5c intsead of 2/5a.
... 5C(2hits) jBC djBC AT(on hit)
That's right! Your TK236A combo works on crossup as well, so people trying to mash (or jump!) out of your blockstrings get a ticket to the HLen TK Ice pain train. This is sort of what you're hoping for every time, but most opponents won't lose to the TK236A every single time.
Additional blockstring shenanigans - Her jC in the corner can be cancelled into her 236A for every single setup listed above - tick throw, blockstring, OR COMBO (for lots of damage, actually). The jC must be done low for the combo, but everything else comes off of a higher or lower hit, and the 236A won't whiff on crouching opponents. Additionally, if you want to trick your opponent a bit, you can 5B 5C(2hits) 623A(~A for a frametrap), and if the 623A connects, hit confirm it into a combo with 623C! (only in the corner.)
Go into training mode vs any character, and set the dummy to all guard, and recover a. Do 623a~a at them. Watch what happens. There is nothing keeping anybody from mashing back at you whenever you run 623a. You can do 623a~b shield, but why force yourself into a guessing game when you're the one pressuring?
Before we go into your stuff on teleports, I just want to point out that you're overlooking some of hmoon's best general tools for pressure in H-Len's 5a6aa series. Moves that move you forward allow you to pressure for a lot longer than normal, and combining 5a6aa w/ the os bunker punish lets H-Len push peoples faces in with multiple frame traps and options to punish different escapes. Also, a little known fact is H-Len 5a6a has a couple frames of autoguard apparently, seen here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiKlrakn6cQYou're also overlooking H-Len pressure loop, which not only looks slick as hell, but can break people's guards if their guard quality isn't perfect.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11433156 @ 2:08 in
That nico link actually does midscreen H-Len the way I feel she should be played, and has some very stupid looking pieces of pressure that are actually weird to deal with.
quintuple over head (that's 5), ex cancel on j.236{b} (which leads to various things, or gets you through moves due to the startup invuln), tincat corner pressure (you can actually jump out of that string, but H-Len can cover it on reaction), ghetto tincat antiair and just solid play make it a good reference video.
Teleport Shenanigans
HLen's teleport is VERY useful in AA. And here's why: For every single version, right after she goes invisible, she HAS NO HITBOX. Lasts for about 5f's, but makes people trying to punish it very sorry that they did. Additionally, while you hold the sparkles (after she regains her hitbox) she has a crouching hitbox (but the sparkles make it seem as if she has a standing hitbox). And, finally, the lag from when you release the button to when she teleports is instant. Yes, that's right, instant. This means that if you set up a B or C teleport and the opponent rushes you, you can release the button and be COMPLETELY safe, unless they guess where you're going AND time it perfectly (there's a very small recovery on the teleport where you can't block.) This sets up a few interesting things:
Len crosses up the opponent on B teleport if they're close enough. This means that you can TK236A (if you're further away) or 5B (if you're closer) into a combo and expect either a counter hit or at least a block the wrong direction. This is safe because the recovery from the teleport is quick enough that any attempt to mash out of this set up will most likely be met by a counter hit, normal hit, or at least a trade (mostly if the opponent has moves with super armor or very quick long range moves - or if they use an EX or a reversal of some kind).
Len has full air movement as if she jumped once after a C teleport. This means that you have a few options after a C teleport - you can jC onto the enemy's head, j2C onto the enemy's head, or airdash forward for a jC crossup. Do note that if the enemy jumps in on your sparkles, this teleport gets a bit tricky to make safe - you have to wait until right after the active frames of their attack are done to release yourself. Luckily for YOU, it is very hard to find Len's crouching hitbox without being able to see her cat form.
And finally - You can TK236A right after an A teleport. This is mostly useful if the opponent is fullscreen and you have a black cat out. You throw out an A teleport (the feint, you don't go anywhere), they jump over your black cat, land, try to rush in, you TK236A their face. It comes out VERY quickly - and an opponent dashing in has very little graphical cues that Len is ending her teleport as she comes out of the teleport in cat form.
There are a lot of problems with her teleports, mostly being how fast you can do an action out of her b/c teleports on top of the camera shifting. These problems are actually why her teleports are largely not viable, and why you'll almost never see anybody use them ever. There are extremely situational/limited uses for her teleports that aren't fully explored, and I don't mind writing about them, but I'll save it for another day. What they definitely should never be used for is a source of mixup, as they're too easy to disrespect/block.
The final shenanigan with her teleports is very tricky, but still useful - You can cancel Len's 236[A] in her EX Ice combo into a B teleport for "Where did she go?" Shenanigans. The animation for the EX Ice covers Len perfectly, so if you throw out a B teleport after the 236[A] the opponent won't see your cat form. Useful oki, and can really mess with an opponent's head.
Wouldn't ex ice animation be long gone by the time you teleport? Oh well. There are deceptive teleport mixups that use things to block where Len comes out. All of them are near the corner. For example you can run stuff > 3c 236c 214b[6] 421b/a. Len will appear behind the black cat on b teleport, and stay where she's at on a for a which way. If you run it near the corner the camera doesn't shift, so this mixup gives away a lot less info for them to react with.
Final Notes/Strategy Notes
If you've read this far, congratulations! I'm almost done rambling about HLen.
One of the most important things to note when playing HLen is that your main purpose is to mess with your opponent until you get a hit. Her neutral zoning and pressure are pretty strong, but she must be played very cautiously until she scores that first hit - Len doesn't have very many tools to get out of the corner, and if the opponent gets in on you and starts playing their own games, you may never get the chance to let your character shine. So abuse your black cats, abuse your TK236A (safe on block!) and keep them trying things to get in. Your best opponent is one who feels harried and hassled by your tactics - they're the sorts of people that will start trying to mash through things, as a lot of HLen's best blockstrings are frametraps, or look VERY unsafe (blockstrings ending in a TK236A come to mind). Remember too that your teleport, while GOOD, is NOT good if the opponent isn't knocked down or otherwise incapacitated. They can (and will!) rush you while you're trying to teleport, and they CAN hit you out of it. The shenanigans with her teleports come AFTER you're holding the button, and not before.
I feel like you should elaborate more on H-Len's midgame because that's probably one of the hardest parts about playing her (only dwarfed by escaping pressure in the corner.) You also skipped on things like H-Len fuzzy guard which are key to fueling her mixups. You can't rely on your opponent not knowing your character and mashing like an idiot for forever. If you give me some time I can write something up about Len's midscreen game and share some more info.
Also, if you play this character, make sure you say "herp derp" when you hit with ANY of her crossup shenanigans, as all of them look EXTREMELY silly.
Cheers to that. Thanks for taking the time to write this even though it's not all accurate. You're still contributing a hell of a lot more to the community than I am by doing this
I hope I didn't come off as condescending when responding to this... I just want my character to be portrayed accurately and as good as is possible.
Topic: H-Len Discussion (Read 30832 times)