Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Act Cadenza => Sion TATARI (Vampire) => : Sp00ky February 26, 2007, 08:01:54 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Normals:
5A: Neutral on block. Best whiff cancel, sets up tick throws. Use as anti air by running behind the opponent so that they cannot jump attack it. Soso off her dash if you're too lazy or moving too fast to use dash 5B or dash 2B. Link multiples of these to help hitconfirm 5C combos.
5B: Neutral on block (this is a recurring theme and one of your best character traits.) Amazing meaty that beats low shield. Fast and also has clash frames, giving it the ability to beat opponent's specials and allow you to punish. Short range, don't try to put one of these in a string with too many A attacks as it can whiff easily.
5C: Special cancellable only. High damage combo filler, has some clash frames on startup allowing it to be used as a very unwieldy antiair, or can be thrown out in a staggered string in an attempt to force counter hits. Don't let this move make your block strings predictable -- you only have 3 options off this move on block:
236A xx 236C (frame advantage but predictable)
236B (frame advanatge but can be countered by backdash with most characters)
and raw 236C (can be dodged by most characters but again has frame advantage)
The move itself is bara bait. Not cancelling to anything is relatively safe but gives away your pressure.
2A: hits low which is all that needs to be said. Can be shielded high or low.
2B: Moves her forward, somewhat slow startup but leaves her neutral on block. Beats high shield making it an a excellent meaty. Use this in combos, also try 2B5B or 2B whiff 5A as block strings. This move leads to the highest damage summon combos.
2C: Generic poor sweep. This has the distinction of being a C attack that is only a level 2 move, making it slightly harder to bara than most 2Cs, but it also means it does not keep your opponent in place as long as you might like at times on block. As a meaty this move has it's uses: it's slower than most of her other meaties which can throw the opponent off, and can be done from further away than her other meaty options. This thing loses for free to the opponent IADing in, dont try to pretend you are shiki/akiha and spam this. It's also combo filler in her main bnbs.
j.A: Generic jumping kick. Nowhere near the range of most good j.As. You can still use airmovement after missing, making it good for fishing for counterhits, as despite the not so good angle it will still beat many jump Cs clean. As a jump in it leads to a mixup: j.A ->j.C
or j.A xx doublejump
or j.A xx land and 2A or throw.
j.B: Usually you get this move by accident trying to perform a divekick. However it has it's own merits as another 'fish for counter hits' type of move. Cancel immediately to j.A to regain air movement if the opponent blocks. This move as a jump in sets up the same mixup as j.A but must be done a bit higher for the mixup to be effective.
j.C: The move your opponent will learn to fear if he is grounded. Stuffs way too many anti airs clean. Wins air to air battles against other jumping Cs. Godlike hitbox. Has a couple of clash frames at the beginning of the move to add insult to injury. Leads to her highest damage bnb. Leads to the opponent doing things like shielding just because you are in their vicinity in the air from sheer fear of the threat of this move. Beats things like dash happy Ciels who like to run under jumpins. Biggest weaknesses: Loss of air movement if you miss. This move also loses cleanly to almost every j.A under the sun.
Command normals:
j.6A: Strange little jumping poke. Has the distinction of being an air command normal with movement after on miss.
6B: Overhead. Has lower body invinciblity during the later frames of the move. You have two options off this.
6B 2C xx BNB
or 6B 5C 236C xx BNB.
as far as setting it up its slow and easy to block on reaction by most experienced players. This makes it best used as a meaty or in unusual places where the immediate instinct is to block low, such as j.C -> land xx 6B.
3B: Generic launcher. Used in her 'easy' bnb. Not air blockable making it a risky but fast antiair. Slight disadvantage on block.
j.2B: Divekick. On CH and/or at certain ranges you can combo off this. Fast enough to be used to beat people who like to throw out pokes when threatened. Can also be used to change her landing positioning or as a fakeout. Some slight recovery on landing.
To be continued.
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Specials:
236A: Near useless. Doesn't knock down, major frame disadvantage. It's best use is for the 236A 236C super cancel on block. Also it can be used to (very rarely) end chains against people who like to move as soon as you whiff cancel for some surprise damage.
236B: Good frame advantage, soso string ender. Can be backdashed in anticipation, or even punished during startup with a fast enoguh ex, leaving it limited to being tossed out on cornered opponents whom you have fooled into thinking it's not coming.
236C: The only reason to even play this character. Leads to stupidly easy high damage combos. Advantageous on block. The only thing you have to keep people from mindlessly running back in to you over and over, as it punishes long distance normals and gives you a free combo + knockdown to boot. Can be used as a wakeup but has poor startup invincibility and does not persist if the opponent hits you early enough.
623A: Really really bad antiair that should be used extremely sparingly for surprise factor. Otherwise completely useless and should not be used.
623B: Really really bad move that serves as the only way to setup combos off 5C if you have no meter. Damn near useless outside of combos, having this blocked gives away your priority, stick to hitconfirming it if at all possible or don't throw it out at all. The only other purpose of this move: It's a special you can use if you land a held shield to punish the opponent (sometimes).
623C: Rarely should be used on wakeup. Otherwise useless. Most commonly you get this move when you fail to execute the 236A 236C supercancel and get 623C instead.
214A: Arc summon. Can be used as a mega early antiair but must be done in anticipation. Can also be used at the end of blockstrings but it's a risk as the opponent can just react quickly and punish the startup. This is the closest thing you get to a projectile and it's not amazing by any means, use it sparingly.
214B: Satsuki summon. Can be tossed out rarely during match reset situations just so you have something on screen. Can be setup off 2C for attempts at mixup on wakeup.
214C: Akiha Summon. Most commonly set up off 2C. Can be done in match reset situations to have something on the field. Has some interesting properties that you should be aware of and abuse: it is treated like a 'character' and thus will sweep away things that are dependant upon a character getting within range (Aoko orbs, Hisui bentos). Also it will 'push' the opponent away from you which is very useful in limited situations. Still should be used sparingly.
214D: Shield bunker. Notable because of it's special properties -- this move is cancelable during the shield spark if it shields or clashes with a move, allowing for you to create 'fake' bara cancels -- time your bunker to shield the end of their blockstring (easier than it sounds) and punish. Otherwise subpar even for a bunker.
41236C: Heat/Blood heat. Limited range, unblockable, fairly fast. Blood heat version can be done in combos but the scaling is horrific.
Last Arc: Activated with ground shield. V.Sion summons Reez Baife and they perform an attack. Last arcs in general are damn near useless, but assuming you land this it is a round ender, the damage is obscene.
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Great, so shes bad and i have to immitate a US player...*highlights another char* >:(
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BNBS/General Character strategy:
See the wiki page: http://ikusat.mac.org/mbac/index.php/Sion_TATARI
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just wanted to ask is 623A changed in Ver.B? since when i was using it in training mode when i have Dummy on all guard and jumping and did 623A it seems to be air unblockable last i checked?
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It's airunblockable.
Still doesn't keep it from way too slow and not beating out the very moves you'd want it to. Even not so hot jumpins like Shiki j.C have good odds of beating it despite the upper body invincibility.
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yes... sadly...
onlything i been using it for is to trade that hit so i can run in for a combo off of an air ch >< but usually i get kicked in the face "First" :/... fladsjflsdjf;
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wait, i want to know how to make Sion TATARI use Ether-Light to pull her opponent closer to her... it puzzles me... :psyduck: :slowpoke:
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wait, i want to know how to make Sion TATARI use Ether-Light to pull her opponent closer to her... it puzzles me... :psyduck: :slowpoke:
uh... if that was a joke, haha...
but if ur not... uh... she doesn't have that move since Final Tuned of Melty Blood React: Final Tuned or any of the new installments... sadly...
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oh, i see, it must have been there before MB ReAct Final tuned... Awww... i'm dissapointed...
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Thanks for the guide Spook! Really am liking this character. A lot more mobile than Shiki which is to my tastes and I don't mind that her specials can only be used in combos.
Though having trouble landing the jC after the 623 B. Really strict frame timing. A lot harder than it looks.
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I play Sion TATARI whenever we play in a "Grab Wars" match...
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Sorry but what the heck are 'grab wars?' :mystery:
Again, great guide Spook! Just picked up V Sion this week and I can use her better than the chars that I've been practicing for months!
Her 2AB5C 236 C jBC, djBC, dash cancel C--> airthrow, is the combo any player should look to land.
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Sorry but what the heck are 'grab wars?' :mystery:
Again, great guide Spook! Just picked up V Sion this week and I can use her better than the chars that I've been practicing for months!
Her 2AB5C 236 C jBC, djBC, dash cancel C--> airthrow, is the combo any player should look to land.
basically, just a normal VS game but the moves that are allowed are only grabs,...
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Are the clash frames on 236B large enough to be useful? I think I've used them like... once when I meant to attempt an anti-air 263B and failed miserably... I assume they're pretty useless becuase of startup. Maybe it wasn't 236B with them and a different attack too, ahaha.
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236B clash frame is bleh
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I use 236b sometimes in my pressure strings, pretty useful against turtles.
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An easier alternative to her BnB: I find the follow up from 5ab2bc5c 623b --> jC, djC, throw much much easier to time than jC, djBC in terms of being at an altitude high enough to land the throw. You can even link the djC with an air dash C before the throw.
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Evolution of Malice bnb:
C dj.C
C dj.BC
C dj.C airdash C
C dj.BC Airdash C
This is the order you should learn them so you can understand their ranges and how they are used.
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there is also jBC djBC airthrow... but this is a tougher Link, i dont think it does the most dmg... but it does good dmg, and leaves you with airdash option at the end so meh... i would say this can probalby deal 2nd most dmg?? probalby maybe...
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A question about the 236A xx 236C blockstring. If you're doing a 5C delay 236A xx 236C block string, whats the point of even having 236A in there?
Its definately too difficult to hitconfirm 236A into 236C, and it reduces the damage of your combos even if it DOES connect. Furthermore you can't really do 236A delay 236C, because the cancel window is too small, and ure better off doing either 236B or 236C plain.
The only reason I can think of is to bait dodges. Would that be the only reason, or is there some other frame-data-related reason that you'd put the 236A in?
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some characters can EX through the 5C -> 236C so if you do 5C -> 236A->236C they can't EX in between it
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Some characters can punish by dodging as well. 236A 236C keeps them still which is what you want and is harder to counter.
Raw 236C and raw 236B are just too recognizable to be used repeatedly. You need the speed of 236A 236C to prevent getting countered by things like nanaya 2A or dodges or EXes or whatever else. This is what is going to make your 236B work in the first place.
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Sorry but what the heck are 'grab wars?' :mystery:
Again, great guide Spook! Just picked up V Sion this week and I can use her better than the chars that I've been practicing for months!
Her 2AB5C 236 C jBC, djBC, dash cancel C--> airthrow, is the combo any player should look to land.
basically, just a normal VS game but the moves that are allowed are only grabs,...
Sorry to point this out to you but why would you not use kouma(slam dunk)/sacchin (she combo grabs)
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Too bad that expert players will always bara my 236c in a blockstring when I used it.
236b in a blockstring is a good options, but don't attack too fast out of it, they might shield your string and punish you. At least, that's what I got recently.
The divekick is a pretty good option, however the slight recovery makes it an attack you shouldn't use too much. It counters air-battles, but you can't do any follow up. When you counter on ground, you can make a bnb out of it though, which can be pretty useful.
But here's a question: What's the best combo after I jC countered someone in the air? Must I do 5c, or 3b? Much options, so I don't know what to choose. I'm not that great with the air bnb after 623b too...Lately I've started to do jC airdash jC djC airthrow ¬_¬
The timing of 236a xx 236c and 236b xx 236c is learnable in no time, just practise a bit with cancelling. Anyway, as others said, 236a is useful for the people who like to mash out of attacks, or don't think you'd pull out something so fast. As a result, you have a successful blockstring which leads to...yeah, 236a 236c, which indeed lowers the damage a bit, but it's better than being countered because you DIDN'T use 236a.
I do not know if V.Sions grabs are better than others, but why the hell is the discussion about grab wars...
Anyway, you're doing a great job Sp00ky, don't lose your skills though =D
-DarkShadow
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Too bad that expert players will always bara my 236c in a blockstring when I used it.
236b in a blockstring is a good options, but don't attack too fast out of it, they might shield your string and punish you. At least, that's what I got recently.
The divekick is a pretty good option, however the slight recovery makes it an attack you shouldn't use too much. It counters air-battles, but you can't do any follow up. When you counter on ground, you can make a bnb out of it though, which can be pretty useful.
But here's a question: What's the best combo after I jC countered someone in the air? Must I do 5c, or 3b? Much options, so I don't know what to choose. I'm not that great with the air bnb after 623b too...Lately I've started to do jC airdash jC djC airthrow ¬_¬
The timing of 236a xx 236c and 236b xx 236c is learnable in no time, just practise a bit with cancelling. Anyway, as others said, 236a is useful for the people who like to mash out of attacks, or don't think you'd pull out something so fast. As a result, you have a successful blockstring which leads to...yeah, 236a 236c, which indeed lowers the damage a bit, but it's better than being countered because you DIDN'T use 236a.
I do not know if V.Sions grabs are better than others, but why the hell is the discussion about grab wars...
Anyway, you're doing a great job Sp00ky, don't lose your skills though =D
-DarkShadow
You mean j.C counter hit?
Then just 5b, 3b air comboooo
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Personally I go with the 2c 5c 623b but I've seen it done both ways, though unless I'm mistaken, the 2c 5c 623b off of counter hit nets more dmg.
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from what i have seen, it nets lesser dmg
CH jC land 2C 5C 623B -> jump C-> jump BC-> airdash C -> airthrow
does like 3585
while
CH jC land 5B 3B -> jBC -> jBC -> airdash C -> airthrow
does like 3900
and i tried this by taking reduce dmg off and critical so i get the most stable dmg count
only thing 2C 5C malice gives is probalby More Circuit but overall dmg is lesser in comparison by 300+
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Interesting, thanks for the hard evidence. I guess I should make the switch back to 5b 3b.
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Question for you pro V.Sion players. What/where exactly is the position like (what do you have to do, wtc.) so that after an airthrow in the corner, you can airdash and land on the other side behind your opponent? Thus, allowing for mixup.
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You need player 2 positioning.
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Really? Only the P2 side can do it? :-\
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Really? Only the P2 side can do it? :-\
yarly
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Note to self: Always play on the P2 side.
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Really? Only the P2 side can do it? :-\
yarly
Only P2 can do it... or it can only be done in the P2 / right side? Meaning any player can do it if they are on the right side?
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Really? Only the P2 side can do it? :-\
yarly
Only P2 can do it... or it can only be done in the P2 / right side? Meaning any player can do it if they are on the right side?
p2 onry
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Yes. you must be player 2. you cant be player 1. not player 2's side of the screen but you must be the second person, the one with the blue box at the character select screen.
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Got it now. Thanks for the clarification.
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that trick can get pretty useless fast once it is seen once or twice, so use sparingly sometimes you kind of don't want to be put in the corner :V
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So I was bored and messing around with combos.
2abc3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3461 damage vs. W.Len, 70% meter.
2ab3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3533 damage vs. W.Len, 58% meter.
2a5b3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3605 vs. W.Len, 58% meter.
2a5b2b3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3768 vs. W.Len, 63% meter. (this one requires fast inputs outside of corner, or else 3B will whiff)
Is the loss of meter not worth the slightly increased damage? I imagine vs V.Akiha or so, the damage differences grow.
And of course, apply it to an overhead:
6b2b3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3800 damage vs. W.Len, 63% meter.
6b5b3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3872 damage vs. W.Len, 63% meter.
6b5b2b3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 4118 damage vs. W.Len, 68% meter. (far more practical without 2a, easy to hit)
But wait, there's more.
Her air string can be improved. Adding a j.A makes it no more difficult and increases the damage.
2a5b2b3b j.abc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3884 damage vs. W.Len, 66.5% meter.
6b5b2b3b j.abc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 4177 damage vs. W.Len, 68% meter.
Well, now I'm barely increasing damage, and just being silly. I think there still might be more damaging air strings but I can't get any as of yet, I'll mess around more later.
And shut up, I can't do malice combos.
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Time spent learning malice combos is well worthwhile:
2a5b2b3b j.bc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 3768 vs. W.Len, 63% meter
vs
2a5b2bc5c 623b jc jbc throw: 3787 vs W.Len 84%
and:
6b5b2b3b j.abc airdash j.c dj.bc throw: 4177 damage vs. W.Len, 68% meter
6b5b2b2c5c 623b jc jbc throw: 4097 vs W.Len 89%
harder variant:
6b5b2b2c5c 623b jcb jbc throw: 4175 vs W.Len 96%
Afaik, the only reason to use 3b in combos is part of antiair or summon bounce combo.
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you dont need to use 3B in the combo from anything unless form air CH and you both land relatively on the ground close, every thing VSion can hit, with 3B she can also hit into 2C to Malice combo
only reason you use 3B is to do an alternative combo in that given situation then using malice..
and in other circumstances like the air counter hit, 3B nets more dmg then malice..
plus using 3B might just be an alternate combo to use other then malice in terms of some character who has funky hit boxes that are out of Malice reach..
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5B 2B 3B makes the combo do more damage than simply adding a reverse beat and doing 5B 2B 2C 3B?
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Those numbers I put there are real!
I do need to work on malice though, I'm getting a bit more consistant at it, but I"ve pretty much switched to V.Akiha at this point.
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Since when you do 2c 2a(whiff) there is time for OTG. I'm just wondering what her OTG string is so i can have fun doing it instead of combs sometimes.
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2a5aa5B5C623B lol....
it can change if you consider using Arc Summon as a start up, so you might just do dash 5a5B5C Malice.
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So, someone used to your P2 crossup? Here are some ideas to mix stuff up.
Land > 6B: Overhead.
Land > 5B/2B: Meaties, beats high/low sheild.
Land > Throw: Some DMG.
Land > IADB JBC/JB land 2A: High/low, also IADB JB dodges heat (except Wara).
If you use jBC airthrow (saving your jump), you can:
airdash > *wait* > 7 JAC: To be used on experienced players only. When done properly you don't crossup and it looks rather ambiguous.
airdash dj (turns you around) JA(Whiff)BC: Fakes a 3 hit mixup (like Arc's CAB, Warc's ACB).
Using JA(Whiff)BC: If you have your second jump and that fails, you can djACB (the B is VERY deep), inserting your low/6B/Throw wherever for mixup. Experiment.
Seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmBbB2UlqdI at 6:04
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Does anybody know much about bite mixups? I know it's not as useful as Akiha's AD, but it still seems like it's got some use? Is it pretty much used like a regular throw?
BHAD Bite also seems to be ridiculously good in every way, like, to the point it's absolutely ridiculous to counter in a corner if you don't have a guard roll dodge, but I could be horribly wrong. Seriously though, huge range, grabs out of the air, invincibility, what else could that move possibly have? It's BHAD, though, so you won't be using it often.
Oh, also, what are ideal combos off of her throw? I've been using 5B 3B j.BC j.BC throw. I played around with other stuff but I couldn't get anything that worked reliably for more damage.
Is something like run in, jump, backdash j.C reliable as oki? it seems to be working pretty well against the few Nero's I've played against, since you can delay the j.C and bait claw, but that could just be them being silly or me doing something dumb. I've also played with j.2B as a meaty, but I should really stop this because I imagine it is a joke to ex reversal.
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Mixing up bite is like mixing up normal throws. bit is also good for punishing heats.
The combo I do off her throw is (in the corner) 5c malice jc jc jc at.
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Blood Heat Arc Drive, can grab people out of the air, but that is if they are only low to the ground or have a limb out close to her... if the other person is already at a certain height in the air after you did bite, it will still whiff, and you will get punished.
However, if they are just on their jump start animation, then they are bitten...
Now, Roll type dodges i doubt, are gona pass it cause Dodges can be thrown..even if it is roll type dodges.. i dont see why bite will be an exception.
Now, remember that Bite has a start up, even though that start up makes her invincible, that means during that gap before the super flash, people CAN jump out... you just got to be tricky enough to either make them think you gona do an attack or do a throw or try to poke you...
Now if i remember correctly back in the days, if you do bite, and the other person does THROW at the same time, bite can whiff?? i don't remember but i remember seeing that happen, i dunno if this effects Blood Heat Version so watevers...
Just INFO...
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Best bite mix up is after knockdown iad 6a whiff into bite.
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So I was bored and messing around with combos.
Just felt like contributing a couple things I was messing with earlier.
2A 5B 5C 623B j.BC j.BC ad.C Airthrow does 4050 on WLen, and generates 84% meter.
2A 5B 5C 623B j.CB j.BC ad.C Airthrow does 4052 and generates 84% meter.
6B 5B 5C 623B j.BC j.BC ad.C Airthrow does 4373 and generates 89% meter.
6B 5B 5C 623B j.CB j.BC ad.C Airthrow does 4357 and generates 89% meter.
This works both midscreen and in corner. j.CB variant does very minimally less damage but AFAIK works on all characters, j.BC j.BC version appears to not work on all characters.
For comparison 6B 5B 2B 2C 5C 623B j.C j.C Airthrow does 4014 and generates 82% meter.
The 6B version works under any circumstances, due to 6B moving you forward. The 2A version you need to be pretty close to your target. The 2A version also only works if you do 2A once, if you do 2AA first the 623B will whiff.
Also unreliable on jumpins due to variant pusback on j.B/j.C depending on the target's hitbox and how close to directly above them you are when you do the j.B/j.C.
Seems pretty usable after 6B as a combo though, works as long as you're close enough for 6B to put you directly against their hitbox.
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Can combo into BHAD bite via xxx 5c 236a bite cancel