When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?

Author Topic: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2  (Read 5408 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tare

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Magic Circuits: 6
    • View Profile
~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« on: February 25, 2007, 01:27:53 PM »
-**Important**- For now on, all updates will be available at: http://marblephantasm.thesrm.net. This is a subdomain branch off of SRM. The website is still incomplete. However the basic guide will be there.

Arcueid Strategies

Useful Hints

During the animation frame of her 2C > 5C > 5C ( Special Air Dash ), when the opponent is lauched and you activate the Special Air Dash, the Special Air Dash can be cancelled into an IAD. This is quite useful if you want to instantly go into a j.B j.C j.B j.C air combo before your opponent hits the wall.

Block Strings

As adviced from Psylocke in the beginning. Learn the range of her j.B and j.C well. These can connect into very devastating combos. IAD ( Instant Air Dash ) j.C > j.B > j.A or j.B > j.C pressure can work wonders as the block stun won't allow the opponent to escape a corner and allow you to continue with any ground block string. The most common ground block string used would be

2A > 2A > 2B > 2C > From here it depends on you. You can either:

5A whiff cancel and dash for a throw if your opponent turtles a lot. 5A whiff canceling also allows you to IAD pressure if your opponent is in the corner. Although this is not recommended against a character like Nero since his 4C will outbeat your IAD pressure unless you shield it.

4124B cancel and catch your opponent offguard in which you can further connect to 4124C if the opponent is not in the corner. If they are, you can do two of the following. Throw in a 236 C, or hope they tech recover and hit in a 5A > 5A > j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C. Caution, if the opponent has a smaller hit box the second hit of the 4124B will not connect resulting in a punish. It may be safer to use 4124A sometimes as 4124 does not result in a second hit. As well, if the opponent continues to turtle after a 4124A, you can proceed to continue pressuring.

A half charged 5C will also hit mid and low. This 5C can also cancel into 4124B/A or 236B/A.

Or you can 236 B/A cancel which can connect into the EX combo written above.

Common pressure strings:

2A, 2A, tick throw

2A, 2A, j.C, j.B, Jump Cancel

2A, 2A, 2B, 2C, 5a Whiff

2A, 2A, 2B, 2C, 214 A or B

2A, 2A, 2B, 2C 236 A or B

2A, 2A, 2B, 2C 623 B

2A, 2A, 5B, 214 / 236 A or B

2A, 5B, Half Charge 5C, 214 / 236 A or B

5B, 2B, Half Charge 5C, 214 / 236 A or B

5B, 2B, tick throw

5B, 2A, 2A, tick throw

j.C, j.B, jump cancel or IAD , j.C j.B j.A

Although throwing a lot of Reverse Beats ( Going from higher damaging inputs to lower damagining ones, EX 5C > 5A ) will prorate damage. It's necessary as a trade off to keep up a high pressure game. Here are just some basic pressure strings for Arcueid. As you see she's a character with plenty of high and low mix ups. Get creative.

Get Up

If you knock your opponent down you can either charge in for a charged 5B as it will ALWAYS hit a crouching opponent which will allow you to continue into a BNB. Charged 5B also gives you one tick of armor.

A charged 5[C] also works, but takes a longer time to initiate. 5[C] gets one tick of armor and is unblockable if the opponent is standing or crouching. If they do not tech out of 5[C] a 2C can follow after into whichever.

Of course with the above two, you might want to add in a few blockstring commands before you execute them.

ie. 2A > 2A > 5[ B ]
ie. 5B > 2A > 5[C]

Her special dash that crosses over your opponent is also effective for throwing those people who love to backdash on getup as well. They'll literally either dash into you or block the wrong way. It's a very 50 / 50 situation though. Use at your own risk.

One interesting way of setuping yourself is simply jumping backwards as your opponent gets up. This gives you lots of punishable options. If they jump, IAD and throw punish. If they back dash you can IAD and hit j.C > j.B into a ground BNB string. If they simply stand and block, you can approach with j.B. Careful that if they're just standing they might be anticipating a move in and punish you with a shield that will result in a coutner hit in their favor.

If you're exactly next to your opponent on wakeup, you can 4[ B ] Charge and quickly cancel into j.B/C on wakeup for an overhead.

The hidden trickery of j.2C

j.2C gives you an extra push and a delayed second hit in the air. So, if your opponent is slightly out of your reach, you can hit in j.2C hope they fall for the first hit whiff and get punished by the second hit, hitting your opponent downwards and alllowing you to reset your play. Don't rely on this one too much though.

It's possible to also use j.2C as semi groundstring overhead on wakeup. Be aware that if blocked it will put you at a framd disadvantage.

Corner Play

As you can see, Arcueid is MOST devasting in the corner. You have plenty of high and low mix ups and her combos are most damaging in a corner. Her 2C > 5C > 5C (This activates Arcueid's special air dash) helps greatly as it will always push your opponent into a corner in which IAD pressure and 2C > 5A whiff cancel is your hero.

The wonders of 5B and 2C

5B has a fairly decent clash frame and will even outbeat some character's j.ABC knocking them downwards. It's a nice charge in technique as if it clashes sometimes it will either bite through the opponents attack entirely or you can cancel into something given the situation.

2C also has clash frames, and according to Magikarp more so than 5B on startup before it hits. After 2C connects, you know the drill.

You'll notice if 5B hits a floating opponent it'll know them straight down. This is good, why? because 5B against a floating opponent connects into 5C> 5A> or 2B > 4B > .... Wait, this looks oddly like a Wall Slam Combo =). Therefore sometimes if you 2A and the opponent is about to leave ground, quickly hit in a 5B while the opponent is stunned midair and insert your combo given the situation. Wall Slam Combo if the opponent is in the corner:

5B > 5C > 5A > 5B > 5C > 5A > 5B > 2B > 4B > j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > Air Throw

or standard BNB

5B > 2B > 4B > j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > Air throw

or standard Relaunch Combo

2B > 2C > Now this depends on where the opponent is, if in the corner > 4B > j.A or j.B whiff > 5A> 5B> 5C> 5A> 5B> 5C> 5A > 5B > 2B > 4B > j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > Air Throw

Counter Hit

If you know your opponent is going to approach you from the air and try and hit you, you have several options. A Counter Hit in the air Melty Blood will completely disable them. They will not be able to attack, tech or move until they hit the ground.

Shield ( 5D ) > 5A is a good way to land a CH from air attacking opponents. But be wary about jump attack variations with multiple hits like Nanaya's j.B or Warcueid's j.2C that gives her super armour and multiple hits.

There are many ways to follow up after a CH anti air, mostly height dependent. I personally like to use:

5A > 5A > 5C > Special Air Dash > j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > Air Throw when they're about mid height. This allows for you to push your opponent towards the corner and gives you Frame Recovery Advantage on wakeup.

If you CH'ed your opponent and they were in the corner you can actually start a wallslam combo. Wait until they're at the height your opponent usually is for a wallslam combo. ( Usually just at head level ). Then:

( 5A > 5B > 5C ) x 2 > 5A > 5B > 2B > (Optional 2C) > 4B > j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > Air Throw

I see a few videos with Japanese players baiting a shield CH and using 22A > 66 C as a punish, but I personally don't think it's worth the meter. You don't really get to setup after this either since they can tech out by the time you can do anything.

Character Hitboxes

Your worst enemies will be Ciel and Satsuki. Their hitboxes are so messed up you'll want to cry. If you add 2A > 2A> at the start of your BNB 2C > 5C won't connect, 2C > 3B won't connect, and 2C > won't connect if Satsuki is even the slightlest bit further away from you. Your best bet would be to limit your 2A or 5A spamming and start combos with 5B. Or if you're lucky, sneak in a 2C combo starter. Ciel is a bit more lenient when outside of the corner compared to Satsuki. But they'll both give you a headache. Alternatively, if you start with 2A's, you can switch into her 4B relaunches which will work very will in or outside of a corner. Also, if you leave out 5C during a wallslam combo and go straight to 5A > 5B > 5C > etc. It is possible to wallslam combo this way against them.
In AC however, a lot of the hitboxes are fixed, so you won't have to hassle yourself with a lot of these alternative methods. Just combo like you usually do.

You'll also notice if you mirror match yourself against another Arcueid or Warcueid, the release on the wallslam combo when the first 2C > 5C comes around is actually quicker. If you delay too much like the other characters the 5C will connect but won't float the opponent.

There are characters that are quite interesting in which you're able to crossup with in a corner and 5C to send them flying with the use of 623C. For example against Nanaya in a corner:

2C > 623C > Dash and Cross Up Under > 5C  > Special Air Dash > etc.

This is not really practical though.

As well, against Shiki Tohno, you'll find sometimes during your ending 4B relaunch sequences in combo before an air finisher, that sometimes the 4B will actually hit both times. If this occurs you have to leave out the first j.B and just go straight into j.C.

Safe Heat Activation

Connecting a 623A after a 2C or launching your opponent away with 2C > 5C will allow you to safely Heat without the risk of being punished.

Arcueid's Throw

AC Applicable Only. Of course you want to use the wallslam variation instead of the ground slam one. If you're in the corner and you throw them, you can follow up with j.B > j.C > j.B > j.C > Airthrow or 22A > 623 C > 2C > etc. Note: It is VERY important that if you choose to use the 22A follow up, Arcueid actually crosses under the opponent when she lands, so 623 C is actually entered backwards. EX: If you're facing right, you actually input 421 C.

Getting better?

Practice makes perfect is what they say. Get used to the 2C > 5C, 2C > 4B delay is the most important thing and see the floating differences between each character in Practice Mode. As adapted from sleepy, never play your opponent TOO much that you only adapt to that playing style and use their flaws as a method of offensive strike on all your other opponents. This will limit your learning curve. Play them, beat them, learn from them but don't change your play style entirely just to counter them.
Fighting games are all about mind games and exploiting the opponents movements. Combos just make winning easier. This is all for now.

Useful Links

Of course there are many ways to play your Arcueid, and being original is important. Here's some helpful links provided by the members of SRM:

Some of these videos have been taken down. I'll post new links as I find them.

Credits go to all of SRM and Melty Bread that has provided a good environment to play and learn in.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 03:35:16 PM by Tare »

Offline Magikarp9

  • Melty Pancake
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Magic Circuits: 8
    • View Profile
Re: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 04:19:58 PM »
More misguided good intention in here...

Arc's 2c has -no- invincibility frames, although it does retract her hitbox before the hit occurs. It also has more clash frames before its hit than 5b, actually.

5b's clash frames are 'variable', in that those frames extend the more you hold onto the b button while semi-charging it.

I also dispute your 'pressure strings' section, but it would seem it is a matter of opinion there; 2c causes tons of pushback on block that makes tick throwing difficult.

More corrections coming later

Offline Tare

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Magic Circuits: 6
    • View Profile
Re: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 09:04:56 PM »
2C does have super armor on it though, kind of like Sion's 2C. Atleast this is what I believed when I countered sleepy with this on Netplay. But majority seem to vote that it may have just been traded hits so I decided to change it.

When I indicated ending blockstrings 2C, it's not like you do it every time. Pressure strings is all mindgames, so the intention is for that the opponent will think 2C will push too far and try and escape, but a simple 214A or B, 623 B ender will eliminate that. 2C > 5A whiffing are just things I commonly see the Japanese players do in videos.

Plus, it's obvious you wouldn't be going for a tick throw if you plan on using 2C at all.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 09:56:08 AM by IchiNanaya »

Offline Kayin

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 221
  • Magic Circuits: 10
  • A POTENTIAL CAT FUCKING
    • View Profile
Re: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 01:11:21 PM »
Some of the links are broken just so you know.
<3

Offline Tare

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Magic Circuits: 6
    • View Profile
Re: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2007, 12:34:24 PM »
Yeah... seems like the uploaders took them down for some reason. Just been kind of lazy to remove them.

Offline gakel86

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Magic Circuits: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2007, 11:21:50 AM »
So, is it possible to, after her special dash from across the screen, hit with j.c into 5a?  everytime I try it they seem to be able to tech.  Also, what's with j.2b?  what purpose does it actually serve since it doesn't hit overhead(I don't think), it's so laggy on landing, and the hit box sucks in that it doesn't stay for long after it's activated.

Offline XAQshinor

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Magic Circuits: 38
  • Shirley ;-;
    • View Profile
Re: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2007, 06:42:41 PM »
So, is it possible to, after her special dash from across the screen, hit with j.c into 5a?  everytime I try it they seem to be able to tech.  Also, what's with j.2b?  what purpose does it actually serve since it doesn't hit overhead(I don't think), it's so laggy on landing, and the hit box sucks in that it doesn't stay for long after it's activated.

after a special dash then j.c u can land then
5b2b(2c on some chars on others u should do 4b after)5c 5b2b2c4b j.b,j.c j.b,j.c airthrow

im not a big fan of j.2b either. it can be used in some combos
but i dont even bother :V

Offline Tare

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Magic Circuits: 6
    • View Profile
Re: ~ Marble Phantasm ~ Guide for Arcueid Players Part 2
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2007, 09:23:45 AM »
So, is it possible to, after her special dash from across the screen, hit with j.c into 5a?  everytime I try it they seem to be able to tech.  Also, what's with j.2b?  what purpose does it actually serve since it doesn't hit overhead(I don't think), it's so laggy on landing, and the hit box sucks in that it doesn't stay for long after it's activated.

I dont see the point of hitting in a 5A at all instead of going straight into 5B. j.2B has only 1 purpose and that's usually comboing. Even if you somehow manage to catch someone on the ground with it, it's not like you'll get anything out of it. j.2B lifts opponents in the air for a small amount if they're already in the air. So for example for the special airdash, you can actually use j.2B if you wish instead of j.C to connect to the ground. Also, you can do a 2C into jump cancel j.2B and follow up with 5ABC in the corner as another way to perform a wallslam. But really it's not as great as of a move. Personally I'd leave it out as there are many other substitutes that do the job better. j.2B did have some pretty lawl inpractical combo moves that involved Miyako though.