Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Act Cadenza => Red Arcueid => : Rubyiris December 27, 2008, 11:49:34 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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I've been playing for several months as Arcuied Brunstud and Warc. Against a standing computer I have almost all of both characters moves down pat, but no matter how much I play, it's impossible to incorporate some things into gameplay, such as their more "advanced" bnbs. Many strategies listed in the guides for both characters are either bad, or aren't any good. (Biggest example is listing 5b with Arcuied as an anti-air. Trust me, that shit can't hit anything out of the air.) Furthermore, I've only managed to get one person on the irc to play me, so I'm down to only two people who will play with me. One of which just stopped playing all together.
Problems I'm having;
He uses The Shikis and Kouma. Problems I experience while playing him;
1. Everything I do gets out-prioritized. I clash with him? He hits first. I throw him? He hits after teching. He's on the floor? He hits me on wakeup. I shield his attack? He STILL manages the first hit.
I try the same shit against him and I just get punished. This is irritating because the only thing he has going for him is technical skill. Even if I can read nearly everything he does, I just can't react to punish anything he does. Just because I can think three moves ahead, doesn't mean I can prevent any of it.
I don't have a single computer strong enough to record videos, otherwise I would provide videos to show exactly what I meant.
It's often said that playing against better players helps you improve, but that's not the case when the better players won't play you, and when they do, they won't provide you with any suggestions. Fucking pricks.
What am I doing wrong? Please help me improve.
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It sounds like you're not hitting A enough. Warc 5A/2A trades with any other 5A/2A on clash, if you meaty you wouldn't ever get hit out of tech/wakeup, and ex shield 5A/2A always comes out before you're vulnerable (4f invincibility on shield).
Mash 2A harder. 2A > this game.
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Arc has a terrible matchup vs kouma, and Both the shikis have amazing priority. Warc fares alot better than arc since she has easier combos for sameish damage, and great priority as well.
Now what are you getting hit by exactly on their wakeup? If the shikis or kouma are doing supers or DPs as reversal, blocking them generally gives you a huge advantage over them. Avoiding them also works, such if you airdash over Nanaya and he DP's (or kouma doing ex grab.), its not going to hit you. If theyre just mashing shit on wakeup learn to meaty.
Tech punishing can be a bit hard to learn, but arc and warc's 2b is rather good for tech punishing imo. Remember, dont attack after they tech, Attack while theyre still teching. After a tech theres a delay before they can do anything.
And shielding their attacks. Depending on the attack and the type of shield you do determins the outcome. Shiki and Nanaya's J.b hit twice so if you shield the first hit and dont do anything (hell if you even do something other than a dp) its still going to hit you. EXshield means you can generally do anything and be safe. Normal shield can only be canceled into command moves (such as 236a etc.) so if you get a normal shield youll generally want to do a DP.
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Would someone please explain to me what a meaty is? None of the guides have explained this, and I have not been able to find a definition to the terminology anywhere.
I don't like the idea of mashing A. It just feels like scrub tactics.
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A meaty is putting an attack out on your opponent as they are getting up from a knockdown, you want to place your active frames on your opponent the moment they get up preventing them from doing anything without invincibilty frames. This is also reffered to as okizeme(oki). Generally 5b and 2b will serve as good basic meatys with all characters. You cant hit them the moment they start getting up or for a few frames after they get up so you have to learn to time it right.
Like I said things youll want to watch out for are DPs and supers as they are getting up from a knock down as they will beat meatys unless you know what you are doing. If you think your opponent is going to do a reversal just blocking or jumping over them will generally give you time to punish them.
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Usually my opponent mashes A when he techs or is getting up.
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Time your attacks correctly while they tech or on their wake up and you'll beat them out.
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I'm not getting any better. Also, it's impossible to beat any of the characters I mentioned out of thier attacks. Finally; I can't beat out Nanaya's JC. How the fuck do I not get hit by this?
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I'm not getting any better. Also, it's impossible to beat any of the characters I mentioned out of thier attacks. Finally; I can't beat out Nanaya's JC. How the fuck do I not get hit by this?
Block more. I'm serious. Impatience tends to get you killed.
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Both Arcuied, and Warc have short range. It's impossible to block, then counter attack without getting out-ranged by everything in Tohno/Nanaya's arsenal. I have the same problem against Kouma and against Ciel. Also Warc is supposed to have superior air to air, correct? Well, I'm constantly being beaten out by JC, regardless of what I do. I usually win the aerial war with Arcuied's JC, but I fail with Warc.
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Both Arcuied, and Warc have short range. It's impossible to block, then counter attack without getting out-ranged by everything in Tohno/Nanaya's arsenal. I have the same problem against Kouma and against Ciel. Also Warc is supposed to have superior air to air, correct? Well, I'm constantly being beaten out by JC, regardless of what I do. I usually win the aerial war with Arcuied's JC, but I fail with Warc.
Don't hit buttons after blocking j.C. If you want to hit buttons, shield it instead.
Let Nanaya run his million year-long blockstrings. He'll just rebeat a million times and then throw you for 500 damage. Just jump out when you see an obvious gap.
Warc j.B is godly.
Block more.
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I don't see how blocking will change anything when Arc/Warc BOTH get out-ranged by everything they can throw at me.
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I don't see how blocking will change anything when Arc/Warc BOTH get out-ranged by everything they can throw at me.
keep your mind open and try new things
this is probably why you aren't getting any better
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keep your mind open and try new things
this is probably why you aren't getting any better
This is great advice.
In terms of specifics, this is what the active frames of Nanaya j.c look like.
(http://pfhoraphobia.googlepages.com/Nanayajc.jpg)
The red part is where it can hit you, the green part is his hitbox. Notice the space where Nanaya's knife hits that does not have a hitbox, this is what makes j.c such a great jump in. Once he reaches these active frames (they last for it 6 frames total) is very difficult to beat out with moves, there are a few things you can keep in mind to counter this move:
- This move has 11 frame startup, which is slooooooooooooooow for an air move. Warc's j.b has 4 frames startup, this means you have 2 full opportunities to stuff this move before it comes out if you are in the air, and one when you are on the ground and he is jumping in.
- It's slow nature and active frames also make it easier to shield on reaction than other moves, once you get a successful ex shield counterhit 5a into whatever you want
- Blocking never gives you an advantage, but it prevents you from taking damage and it is a very safe alternative when you aren't sure anything else will work.
This just scratches the surface, as akira said experiment and keep an open mind.
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Frame Data does me no good, 'else I'd have checked it out already. I'm not a robot, I can't actively play the game, and remember the frame data fir one move, let alone every move in both players move sets, as well as actively think of several options in dealing it.
It's impossible for me to improve when all I have is one person to play against which I've explained several times before, it's impossible for me to do anything correctly against. I can predict him correctly maybe 70% of the time (bullshit random number), but it does me no good if Arc/Warc can't fucking beat any of his attacks out. J.C stuffs everything I do short of blocking, despite the move telegraphing itself. I always get hit on wakeup, and if I don't, I get hit by bunker on wakeup, or heat on wakeup. I've been told to "meaty" these, or that heat is easy to bait, but I call bullshit. I'm pretty good at guessing what he can do, but how am I supposed to know when he will heat, and what to do to stop it?
Also to the person who sayd to "keep an open mind." Seriously, how the fuck do I do this, too? Warc has limited options, and I can't do Arc's advanced loops, despite the hours of practice each day I put into trying to learn how. What am I supposed to do that's new? Seriously, what the fuck? I can't try new things if there aren't anything new to try! =\!
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You are being unrealistic, wanting instant results and blaming the game for your problems when it gives you all the tools you need to succeed (especially when you play warc, one of the best fucking characters in the game). Fighting games are not for you.
Alternatively, follow this advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64.
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You should fight
THE BEST WARC EVER
To find out what you should do :V
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heres something to keep an open mind about. If they keep doing stuff on wakeup that beating you out, stop trying to beat them? If he does shield bunker or his dragon kick and you BLOCK IT. you get a combo so free he should pay you for it.
Heres a video of Leo, probably the best warc to play this game, beating a very good arc and one of the best Nanaya's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEO8bSL4-WE
Keep in mind, Copying everything he does probably isnt going to help you, because the "meatys" that leo is doing might lose out to a shield bunker or Nanaya's dragon kick (but not wakeup A spam) which is then beaten by blocking or baiting them. Youll see Leo do a superjump airdash back bloodring in the corner to bait heats and wakeup moves.
Like people said, dont expect instant results, take your time and evaluate what is going on. Dont get rattled by small things. A throw will do 1/3rd the damage of a combo with no rebeat penalties. Warc j.b and her 236 moves done at the right time will beat Nanaya j.c, but Nanaya j.a can beat out Warc j.b. Your not going to always guess what your opponent is going to do, and if you do guess right, you need the reflexes as well as something to beat them out to capitalize on it.
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You shouldn't have specific problems winning with Warc. Unless the Nanaya you're fighting is Jiyuna.
If you're losing in the air against Nanaya j.aaaa just airthrow. You will also beat out j.aaaa mashing Nanayas with j.2c, but that should only be used to shut down j.aaa mashing since it's extremely unsafe on block. But this shouldn't be that much of a problem considering how good Warc j.B is. You should counter hit trade at worst. Otherwise you're most likely throwing it out too late. Hold back at all times when you're idling/not attacking.
On the ground, Warc 2b is a pretty good meaty for okizeme...probably safer than 5b for DP-mashy nanayas. Of course if they are mashing DPs every time, just block and wait for it to come out, and then punish. It's all a matter of reading your opponent. Either 5a whiff for the followup or hitconfirm the 5a with another 5a for the launch (2b 5a 5a aircombo). On whiff, you can follow with a number of her options for a blockstring. If he stops mashing DP, either just start up a blockstring or throw (okizeme). Off of Warc's throw, if he ground techs, either tech punish with 2b or if he decides not to tech (since you should be tech punishing him), if you're fast enough you can OTG him 2b 5b 623c wallslam > dash 5c (loop).
You will not win if you are a worse player. Nanaya is well known to be a mashy player that can just get away with retarded shit at lower levels of play (and higher levels lolol). Know Warc blockstrings, cancels (214b > 214c/623c, etc), and the strength of her normals. Her jb, 2b, and 5c are known to be very good.
Know how to get counter-hits off of blood rings. j.214a for defensive BRs to fish for CH and j.214b > airdash jB for offensive BRs. If you land before them (and it's a counter-hit), you can relaunch him with a well-timed 5b 5c aircombo.
If nanaya lands a j.C you're in for 4k+ damage (unless its a 2b 5c 214b followup). Block it at all costs. Always remember Nanaya has an airdash after a double jump to mix up the landing time. If you can shield it (not really recommended), you should be able to get CH with (5d) 5a. (Ex-shield, of course).
Watch warc videos. Leo (JP) is a great warc player. Look at his movement, use of normals, and combos/blockstrings.
Why are you losing to Kouma? Actually, don't answer that.
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Also to the person who sayd to "keep an open mind." Seriously, how the fuck do I do this, too? Warc has limited options, and I can't do Arc's advanced loops, despite the hours of practice each day I put into trying to learn how. What am I supposed to do that's new? Seriously, what the fuck? I can't try new things if there aren't anything new to try! =\!
It's easier to make excuses than to come up with solutions.
Just get out there and do new things.
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Read this.
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/index.php?topic=1285.0
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I need people to play with..
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You have this whole forum full of MB people. I'm sure some people will be able to play with you.
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If you're in the west coast, I'd gladly play against you.
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I second that west coast notion.
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You are being unrealistic, wanting instant results and blaming the game for your problems when it gives you all the tools you need to succeed (especially when you play warc, one of the best fucking characters in the game). Fighting games are not for you.
Alternatively, follow this advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64.
best post ever? dude I will use as reference everywere!!!!
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No, I'm pretty sure I'm the worst player on the site.
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Rubyiris: Try taking the (good) advice people have given you instead of just saying NO NO NO NO and covering your ears. :psyduck:
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Get on #MBAC and play me
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Do wut Kirbeh says. He's a pretty decent Warc and he could show you a few things. You should also try and play LordKnight.
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No, I'm pretty sure I'm the worst player on the site.
I don't actively play or practice but I'm still a player so I'm pretty sure that makes you better than me.
You really just have to put fourth the effort to be good instead of bitching about it. Look at LordKnight and Nightroad, back in the day I rolled both of them and now they are leagues better than me, Its the perfect example of players who put in effort and players who don't.
I guess what I'm trying to say is put more time into it and you'll get better wasting time bitching will get you nowhere.