Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Act Cadenza => Akiha Tohno => : YAT April 18, 2008, 01:35:14 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Yes the title sucks, sue me.
This is a character-specific exploration of the ever-popular Akiha whiff cancel combo. I'm fairly sure there isn't anything on the forums of this nature yet, but if there is I apologize. Since this is for advanced-level play only I won't explain anything more than necessary (IE basic-level play questions). If you're learning to play Akiha, check out Psylocke's guide for everything you need to know. So without furthur delay...
The whiff-cancel combo's 2 main purposes are meter gain and stall, both of which it accomplishes superbly. It is obviously not based around achieving maximum damage. I'll list 2-3 different combos for each character, based on whether it starts from a standing hit or TK overhead. I may add a third section in the future for other various options. I don't, however, want to get into too complex combos, seeing as how the "standard" combos are hard enough as is. This will be a list/description of, for the most part, the easiest and most practical way to perform the combos. Since the point of these are meter, all combos will end in 22C. In no particular order:
(Note: All combos will be supplemented with Practice Mode replays) YouTube vids courtesy of Dakanya :toot:
Key: ( ) indicates whiff
Kouma: One of the easier characters to combo, you shouldn't have too much trouble.
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 184%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1RBT4M1OM&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=0
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 155%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCFHwiKiarg&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=13
Sion/V.Sion: All combos for one apply to the other. You'll notice that visually, the combo looks exactly opposite to that of Kouma's. This is something I have dubbed the Reverse Whiff Cancel. /end meaningless comment
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 181%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24_xcUZjiKg&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=14
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 160%
(A third repetition can be added in the second half, but has been omitted for simplicity).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAbtDAO4Ya4&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=1
Important: There are tiny delays in between the 'j.2C-2B' and '2B-2C' (refer to replay). These are of the utmost importance, as it spaces you slightly farther away, so that the (5A) doesn't accidentally hit. (This is only because in the replay, j.2C is directly in front of the opponent. If you are spaced slightly farther away when starting, the delays are unnecessary).
Alt. Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C(5A),(back up slightly)2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 160%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPJtXnhv_2E&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=15
(Credit goes to Sphyra, allows for easier combo confirmation; really a matter of personal preference).
Red Arcueid: A very hard character to combo, not many options against her. *grumble grumble*
Simple: 2A,2A,5C,4C,2C,6C(5A),5C2C(2A),2A2C(5A),2A2C,(small pause)623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 120% :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8bm7JRbfs&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=20
Adv. Overhead: TK j.2C,6C,5B,(small delay)2B,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],5C,5C2C(2A),2A2C(5A),2A2C,(small delay),623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 146%
(Since 2C5C,2C(2A) cannot connect on Warc, 6C5B is used to compensate)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyl4KqIL6EA&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=2
Akiha: Similar to Sion/V.Sion, except less spacing is required.
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 181%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl0_gJ1mZEQ&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=12
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 160%
(A third repetition can be added in the second half, but has been omitted for simplicity).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=582vD-MtxhA&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=3
Ciel: Essentially the same as Kouma, but since she falls slower, the timing is different.
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 184%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnEz-FFqLtQ&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=4
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 155%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_1GcTh1Rko&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=11
Warachia: Again, same basic concept, main difference being the timing between '2C5C-2C(2A)'
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 184%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cXaubw0s30&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=5
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 155%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-LCkKQkwvE&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=19
Satsuki: I hate comboing her, only because she looks like she's 10 feet in the air right before she hits the ground (a lot of the time I rely on visual cues -.-). Other than that, essentially the same (again).
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 171%
(A third repetition can be added in the second half, but has been omitted for simplicity).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpHTPwKdmjE&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=6
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A),2A2C,(small pause)5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 156%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUF74NhDzNw&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=10
Hisui/M.Hisui: All combos for one apply to the other. Interesting characters in that we'll use both the Standard and Reverse whiff cancels in the same combo.
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A),2A2C(5A),2A2C,(small pause)623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 189%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMA9q1_aLOs&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=16
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A),2A2C(5A),2A2C,(small pause)623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 168%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1LNfQolc1U&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=7
Tohno Shiki: Too. Easy. His overhead combo gives me a headache. Not really sure why.
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 184%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx8wDKc3Ecs&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=8
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],5A2C,(short pause)623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 151%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l_6m6-cXFo&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=18
Arcreid: I have the same problem with her as I do Satsuki >_> You kind of just have to feel it out (as I guess you have to with all the others, but w/e). Medium difficulty.
Simple: 2A,2A,6C,4C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 176%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5HChXMy7-A&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=17
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x2],5C,2C(2A),5A2C(2A)[x3],623B,TK 22C Meter gained: 155%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfBqBRV7yI&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=9
Well that's all for this update, most (if not all) the interesting characters have been covered, for all the others we'll have to resort to less elaborate combos. :( Future updates will contain rest of the missing combos, as well as some more characters, maybe a more organized format, etc. Any and all critique/input is highly appreciated. Replays can be downloaded below. (I realize this is rather inconvenient, if someone could help me post links directly under the specific combos that would make things run much smoother)
Enjoy!
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Second set of replays.
Edit: On second thought, if someone would volunteer to make little YouTube clips of my replays, I would be extremely grateful. I'd try and figure out how to do it, but it would probably take way longer than someone who knows what they're doing.
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Oh man, this is too good, sync. Awesome job on the very comprehensive list of the whiff cancel combo and how each character affects it. +HEAT for you.
Second set of replays.
Edit: On second thought, if someone would volunteer to make little YouTube clips of my replays, I would be extremely grateful. I'd try and figure out how to do it, but it would probably take way longer than someone who knows what they're doing.
Sure, I'll put these replays up on Youtube. I've been busy lately, but I should have it done by the end of the weekend (or even tomorrow if I'm lucky).
EDIT: Sorry, but even after much effort, I can't record the replays with FRAPS at a proper framerate. It looks like my computer fails too hard (which is strange since I was able to record before - it also might be the new hard drive I put in). It keeps recording at 30-50FPS, so unless you're into slow-motion whiff cancel combos, I don't think I should touch this one.
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I'll try to do and upload them tonight.
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Sweet thread. Honoring it with my newfound ability to hand out HEAT.
To add one or two things.
After the first wallslam you can whiff cancel and get a few frames to space yourself better.
Sion for example:
Overhead: TK j.2C,2B,2C,5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x3],5C,2C(2A),2A2C(5A)[x2],623B,TK 22C
(A third repetition can be added in the second half, but has been omitted for simplicity).
Important: There are tiny delays in between the 'j.2C-2B' and '2B-2C' (refer to replay). These are of the utmost importance, as it spaces you slightly farther away, so that the (5A) doesn't accidentally hit. (This is only because in the replay, j.2C is directly in front of the opponent. If you are spaced slightly farther away when starting, the delays are unnecessary).
Whiff cancel after the first 5C, and you can walk back a few pixels before the 2C. This can help in getting the proper spacing. I know this also helps for Ren, but not sure who else.
Also to be a douche and give more work to you Sync, getting a j.2C off something like j.A gives different spacing than TK which can change the amount of reps on the strings. Don't know if you want to cover those too.
Few notes for those who want to practice this:
If you're doing these strings off overheads, if you're not setting the dummy to crouch block already make sure it's at least crouching. The pushback on TK j.2C isn't the same when done on standing or crouching and while that difference doesn't matter much for regular combos, it does for these.
I also personally remove air teching on the dummy when I practice these strings. While it's true you want to practice your combos to be flawless, whiff loops are hard so put a few chances on your side. It won't stop you from getting a perfect one anyway, and if it comes out as invalid well it's still not bad at all. I usually get some invalids in actual matches anyway, and so does Yukinose (I think).
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Ah I forgot about whiffing 5C, I'll throw that in somewhere :toot:
For the most part, j.A-j.2C spaces you almost exactly the same as the simple version. If there are any odd cases I'll list them, but normally you can do j.Aj.2C,2C5C, then whatever the rest of that character's simple combo is.
Edit: Added in Sphyra's suggestion in replay form.
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Encoded and uploaded the videos.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=72AEC22CC41381FC
Youtube takes some time for the MQ and HQ streams to go live. Just add &fmt=18 or &fmt=6 at the end of the URL to see if they're there. MQ (&fmt=18) should take up to a few hours and HQ (&fmt=6) could take up to a whole 24 hours.
EDIT: If you see this monitor icon on the right of the rating/views bar, it seems that MQ is available for sure. Like Xenozip, I'll add MQ/HQ URLs to the video descriptions when they go live.
Special thanks to:
Xenozip - for giving me youtube-specific encoding pointers
sync and sphy - for tackling on Akiha's beautiful legs loop
sphy vs sync Pokemon MM ft5 $100 get hype
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Sync, you are awesome. Thanks a ton for these. Hopefully sometime in the near future I will motivate myself enough to practice them.
+heat for you
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The next 6 replays; filling in some of the gaps. I'll leave this in your capable hands Dakanya =D
Also there's one in my previous post for the alternate Sion combo ^
Edit: Replaced Hisui replay w/ M.Hisui just for the hell of it.
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the title sucks.
j
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you shouldn't be allowed to replace replays just for the hell of it! well i'll accept your re-recording just this once... because that replay made me realize how retarded hisui's gasps of pain can sound when akiha's legs of doom are repeatedly raping her...
EDIT: Alright I've put up the second set on Youtube. I've added it to the playlist as well, see the second page. Here's the link again for your convenience. Not all the videos may be up right away as Youtube is processing them.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=72AEC22CC41381FC
Hopefully MQ/HQ versions will be up for all of them tomorrow.
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Final set of replays for this section.
..I'm beat x_x
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"
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=72AEC22CC41381FC
zzz
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Great replays, sync! And thanks to Dakanya for encoding them too. +HEAT :V
I'll need to brush up my vakiha play :psyduck:
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Great replays, sync! And thanks to Dakanya for encoding them too. +HEAT :V
I'll need to brush up my vakiha play :psyduck:
Which reminds me... IIRC combos that work on Akiha should also work on V.Akiha
Tohno's will not work on Nanaya (I suspect it's because Nanaya's aerial hitboxes are weird)
Warakia's will not work on Nero (I suspect it's because Nero falls a little slower)
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If her combos are compatible with VAkihas then all the better :V
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The combos actually won't work on V.Akiha the same way -.-
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The combos actually won't work on V.Akiha the same way -.-
Yeah I had a sinking feeling you'd mention it if it did. But it's certainly possible to get a good loop on V.Akiha going, no?
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Honestly it's pretty much the same as Warc's simple >_>
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I pretty much figured after a while what's compatible with Akiha isn't fully compatible with VAkiha. Chill, sync :psyduck:
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To also be a douche, since you're starting with 100% Meter, aren't you only gaining 84% from the first Kouma one, and so on?
On a less whiny note, wow. Wow.
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To also be a douche, since you're starting with 100% Meter, aren't you only gaining 84% from the first Kouma one, and so on?
On a less whiny note, wow. Wow.
No. It says "Meter gained: 184%." You gain 184%, so you'd be at 284% if you start with 100% meter. However, if you count the flamepit ender, then yeah, you are gaining 84%, but having the flamepit more than makes up for it.
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seemed simple enough however I am having a problem right here for some reason I can't get out the 2C
so all I get out is this, any reason why it doesnt feel like comming out is there a certain delay needed between 2A and 5A at the end.
2A,2A,6C,4C,2C,5C,2C(2A),5A
*edit I figured it out cool combo. not to bad either after 30 minutes you should be able to start attempting it in casual matches, against a few chars.
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Um, maybe its just me, but don't these seem sort of impractical? Is building meter their only purpose? Why not BnB combo/blockstring and be done with it? They're long, require changing for almost every character and I am not sure I have seen them used that much (I'm probably dead wrong; link me some match vids please). As an Akiha player, is it really important that I learn this? Is it worth the effort?
I know Melty Blood is a deep game, and that's what drew me to it, but really.
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Um, maybe its just me, but don't these seem sort of impractical? Is building meter their only purpose? Why not BnB combo/blockstring and be done with it? They're long, require changing for almost every character and I am not sure I have seen them used that much (I'm probably dead wrong; link me some match vids please). As an Akiha player, is it really important that I learn this? Is it worth the effort?
I know Melty Blood is a deep game, and that's what drew me to it, but really.
There's a lot of reasons to learn these. Akiha is really meter intensive, as EX Flamepit is a really important part of her corner pressure game, and EX Flameribbons is just a good super in general, so generating meter is always a good thing. Also, you might have noticed that there's a really annoying property of Akiha's airthrow that makes it so that the distance she lands after airthrowing an opponent is variable. So sometimes if you do her normal air juggle with airthrow ender on an opponent in corner, she'll land so far away and won't be able to do a meaty on opponent's wakeup. All of these combos use the 623b ender which does ensure she can do a meaty, or better yet, a TK EX Flamepit right after.
Finally, whenever Akiha wants to do a corner EX flamepit setup, she usually has to sacrifice damage to do so(removing 5[ b ]b combo or just plain comboing into 623b). With these 2a whiff loops, she can do about the same amount of damage that she would have done had she gone for a normal combo, but end with an EX Flamepit setup on top of that.
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Um, maybe its just me, but don't these seem sort of impractical? Is building meter their only purpose? Why not BnB combo/blockstring and be done with it? They're long, require changing for almost every character and I am not sure I have seen them used that much (I'm probably dead wrong; link me some match vids please). As an Akiha player, is it really important that I learn this? Is it worth the effort?
I know Melty Blood is a deep game, and that's what drew me to it, but really.
There's a lot of reasons to learn these. Akiha is really meter intensive, as EX Flamepit is a really important part of her corner pressure game, and EX Flameribbons is just a good super in general, so generating meter is always a good thing. Also, you might have noticed that there's a really annoying property of Akiha's airthrow that makes it so that the distance she lands after airthrowing an opponent is variable. So sometimes if you do her normal air juggle with airthrow ender on an opponent in corner, she'll land so far away and won't be able to do a meaty on opponent's wakeup. All of these combos use the 623b ender which does ensure she can do a meaty, or better yet, a TK EX Flamepit right after.
Finally, whenever Akiha wants to do a corner EX flamepit setup, she usually has to sacrifice damage to do so(removing 5[ b ]b combo or just plain comboing into 623b). With these 2a whiff loops, she can do about the same amount of damage that she would have done had she gone for a normal combo, but end with an EX Flamepit setup on top of that.
Well, if you say so. But could you post some videos of this in a real match? I still can't get over how I must change it for nearly every character in the cast. :-\
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Well, if you say so. But could you post some videos of this in a real match? I still can't get over how I must change it for nearly character in the cast. :-\
hmm... if you still weren't convinced by psylocke's beautiful post (flamepits suck and as someone playing against akiha with these whiff cancels i would blow my brains out :/) ~ you should read this (http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/)
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Well, if you say so. But could you post some videos of this in a real match? I still can't get over how I must change it for nearly character in the cast. :-\
just watch any of yukinose's ver.B matches. whether or not if you decide to learn these is up to you. the fact is, being able to infinitely reset into a guaranteed EX flame pit in the corner is awesome
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Well, if you say so. But could you post some videos of this in a real match? I still can't get over how I must change it for nearly character in the cast. :-\
hmm... if you still weren't convinced by psylocke's beautiful post (flamepits suck and as someone playing against akiha with these whiff cancels i would blow my brains out :/) ~ you should read this (http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/)
Well, yes, since I'm still learning the Melty Blood system I guess I would be considered a scrub. Although I don't appreciate the title when I'm actively researching and attempting to get better at the game. Thanks for the link, I guess.
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2AA xx 2C loop vs. Hisui/Mech-Hisui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylZXMJL-JE0&feature=PlayList&p=72AEC22CC41381FC&index=21
removed the old video and re-uploaded it for quality