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Author Topic: Experimentation with Hisui  (Read 5785 times)

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Offline Gregorius

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Experimentation with Hisui
« on: March 13, 2009, 10:21:53 PM »
Oh, look at that. It's me. Again.
A couple of you might recall me from my last thread "Experimentation with Aoko" where I screwed up unbelievably in my trials, but that doesn't mean I've stopped there.
It's one of my goals to become proficient with as many characters as possible, and my next stop after Aoko is... well, Hisui.

First things first, though... just something I see in near every video out there that really gets to me. I might've said this somewhere before, but when I see combos performed, it's always about who can do the most damage with the most hits. Why not add a little... variety? So I got to thinking, "I can't be as good as some of these people, so maybe I can make a decent player with something new". Tampering around for a few hours, I realized two things:
  • I cannot pull off a j.BC > j.BC > j.Q finisher to save my life (yet); and
  • with Hisui, sometimes less can mean a lot more.
In those few hours, I came up with a few new (maybe-)loopable combos (that are all completely valid this time, albeit a little weird). First off:

"Hit 'em High, Throw 'em Low"
2A > 2B > 2C > 5C[C] > j.Q (6 Hits, 2100~2300 damage)

Okay, so I suck at making names, but I think it describes it pretty well; hit your opponent into the air, go straight into a charged 5C, and then throw them as soon as you jump. Works anywhere on the screen, and if you backdash right after the throw, you might be able to get another one of these in on a neutral ground recovery. Repeat if opponent is terribly predictable; if you want to confuse your opponent, you can do a standard j.ABC > j.BC before the air-throw... or you can throw them into the corner with this:

"Set 'n' Spike"
2A > 2B > 2C > 5C[C] > j.BB (7 Hits, 2000~2200 damage)

Starts the same way as the last "combo", but exchanges the j.Q with a j.BB... and puts you low enough that you can do it all over again starting from the 2A or 2B if they do a neutral / back recovery if they're in the corner. These are just two easy ways that you can reduce your opponent's life bar by ~15% in one go, but I doubt anyone (short of a Level 4 CPU) will really fall for these multiple times. Which brings me to...

"The Bento Breaker"
6Q > 22B > 2B > 5C > 6C 6C (4/5 Hits, 1900~2100 damage)

The premise is simple: knock down your opponent (a 2C might work far better for this, but the 6Q is just an example), set a B-Bento, get a five-hit combo for the price of four. I find for best results, you need to make the 5C hit only ONCE... or if you're really in the mood to play some form of mind games, do a 2C after the 5C and follow up with the 6C 6C. Not only do you get an extra sixth hit in for ~600 extra damage, it's an easy setup for an air combo if you hold back the second 6C. Do not recover; do not pass "go"; do not collect $200.

Now this last one... again, I can't make Hisui's j.BC > j.BC work for the life of me, so I improvised the EX-Dust loop into something even beginners can pull off quickly and easily, and you never have to go into the air. It totally works, but you have to be fast on the 236C at the end to get that wall slam.

"EX-Dust Grounded Loop"
2B > 5C > 623C > 2A > 5B > 5C > 6C 6[C] 236C (14 Hits, 3500~3800 damage)

So just looking at this, I know what you're thinking: "Why?" Well, it has only one practical application: Safe (Blood) Heat Activation... or at least that's all I could think of after I tried this. You're sacrificing damage for something that's easier to work with; I find that with the original, unless your timing is superhuman, you have a high chance of either missing the 2B or mis-timing the 5C, which ruins the combo and the loop. This way, you get a guaranteed loop and you're clear to either super-jump into another combo in the corner or go into a (Blood) Heat and maybe go into an Arc Drive after they recover.

So after those few hours, these are the fruits of my labor. All criticism is accepted (both good and bad); I'm just here to learn and become better.
If you have something to add, or even if you've come to criticize or demoralize, please do not hesitate... and that's it for this one. Maybe if I find more interesting combos to try, I'll post them here.

...'til then, I suppose.

Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 10:45:46 PM »
I'm just going to come out and be blunt.

Learn how to do her normal bread and butter before you bother doing anything else, period.

I'll be honest, I had trouble doing j.bc jbc into throw myself when I started playing (if you look for earlier vids of me on youtube you can see me not doing the full combo) but I got over the hump eventually.

Once you get her bread and butter down you can go buck wild with all these little gimmicks (that I'm pretty damn sure wouldn't actually work in AA).

And to be even more blunt, if you can't get one character's bread and butter down, then it's time you stopped trying to be proficient with more then one character and got back to the basics.

:P
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 10:47:57 PM by Master Chibi »
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Offline Gregorius

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 11:06:44 PM »
Eventually I will get Hisui's BnBs down, as well as her air finisher... but...
...y'know, it's time I came clean as well. After working in a video game store for a year, I don't even want to look at any of the games I own, let alone actually play games anymore. Tooling around with characters is about as far as my interest goes at this point in time.

*sigh*

...but I'm gonna go sharpen up with Ciel. It's been months since I was actually a good player with her... and Aoko.

If there's one thing I respect about you, Chibi, it's that you tell it how it is.

Offline Sphyra

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 07:35:10 AM »
Don't come in here with your subpar combos as if you're bringing something new. Granted the Hisui boards have been very dead for awhile now, but if anyone starts posting in here again I'd rather it be something useful than a guy's blog on how hard he fails.

I honestly don't want to shit your parade but there's really no point to all of this you're doing. You're not figuring out anything new, you're only simplifying the already simple, rendering it much less potent. You seem pretty serious about the game so there's really no reason you should develop these new baby combos instead of learning what's already been proven to be the best over the years that the game's been out.
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Offline scottind

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 01:14:54 AM »
I'm just going to come out and be blunt.

Do what you think makes the game fun for you.

Offline jiyuna

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 01:59:10 AM »
I am the best nanaya in the world.
NETPLAY

Offline Van_Artic

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 06:01:57 AM »
i should try this, Hisui is my second favourite

as classic BnB i use:

5C > 2C > 6B > jBC > jBC > AD

or

5C > 2C > 6B > jC > jCBB > (if opponent does not tech-recover) jAAA >jAAC >AD
<Zelretch> i would pay for a Kouma bedsheet
<Zelretch> seriously i wouldnt mind sleeping with PURE MASCULINITY

<ehrik> does ckouma have any hype combos <setrajonas> 2aaa <ehrik> damn that combo <ehrik> is too hard <ehrik> do you have anything easier

Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 03:36:09 PM »
I'm just going to come out and be blunt.

Do what you think makes the game fun for you.


Wow, what is this, day care?

Seriously?

Who needs to put in hard work when you can half ass everything, right?

Why did people like Sphyra and myself even bother?
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Offline Alfonse

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 05:57:46 PM »
Calm down, Chibi. You and scottind belong to two distinctly different camps. One just plays the game to mess around and have fun, and the other studies the game and plays it seriously.  :psyduck:
Keyboard crusher who couldn't pull off a proper BNB.

Offline scottind

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 06:27:00 PM »
Alfonse is saying, i'm the one that plays it seriously.

lol

Hard work, are you kidding? Melty Blood isnt a job here. Though i agree, everyone hisui should have a good bnb down pat, you should lighten up.

Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 06:59:07 PM »
You can put hard work into something that's NOT a job, you know.
Chibi was just telling Greg off for pointless and terrible combos because someone would have to anyway. You can only have fun making useless combos for so long..  :prinny:

Offline scottind

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 07:21:52 PM »
Chibi is saying you should have some fundemental bnb game.

what i originally meant is simply, you should have fun with the game and you'll get better naturally.

only after Sphyra chimed in with some elitist bullshit, "dont come into my house with your sucky comboes."


Offline Numakie

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 07:50:42 PM »
So uhh.. what you should do is throw as many A's as you can in a combo cuz the damage is so intense...  :teach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxEqO7YGBfc

You should also jump in the air and throw out as many j.BB's for air encounters as possible, and when they try to poke from a whiffed j.BB when you hit the ground, shield. For some reason, the shield usually works. 

There is also dust shenanigans where you just throw an ex dust in thin air as an empty and stand inside the dust.  Thats always fun. 

:prinny:

Srrsly though, I would find this thread more of a Hisui advanced tricks thread rather then a "wtf are you thinking, learn the basics mofo" bashing thread.  I'd feel sorry for any newcomer coming to this thread with some interest in Hisui and finding out that everyone who uses her is an elitist ahole, which makes me feel sorry for my quiet pink haired maid. ;x 

....Oh yes. you should also multi'sachel in combos. ;D
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<Pfhor>: like WHY IS THIS HISUI DOING THESE THINGS

Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 08:31:26 PM »
Noone in here is being elitist, we're just not going to sugar coat anything.

If you want to come in here and tell us that you can't do the bnb properly and that you're trying to compensate for it by giving up, well yeah, people like Julian (Sphyra) and myself are going to tell you to get back to the basics and get that bread and butter down. That's just the groundwork you can establish that would allow you to be as flexible as you want, that's when the game opens up, that's when you can burn brain cells in trying to be creative with whatever. Who doesn't like seeing their hard work come to fruition?

That being said, yeah, Sphyra wasn't really being elitist, it's more or less the truth, but if the guy wants to stick with his deal then he's free to do that obviously, if that's how he has fun.

We're all friends here guyz~
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: Experimentation with Hisui
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 03:58:20 AM »
I may have been harsh but I stand by what I said. You can't come in here claiming you want to learn the character and the very next thing you do is a detailed thread that throws everything she has out the window in lieu of a half assed playstyle.

Anyway, I really recommend learning her default bnbs as maximizing damage is a definite step to improving your game, especially when it's coming from something that's not overly difficult. You're losing easily over a thousand damage with your combos, which really isn't excusable.

So here's some tips to add some productivity to my negativity.

First of all make sure you use 2C 5C 6C as your launcher. This will set them up at ideal height for the j.BC dj.BC airstring. You can add whatever groundstring you want prior (2A 5B 2B for example) but for practice you can keep it simple if you need to.

Next is the direction in which you jump. It's possible to have your first jump be in all three directions (backward, neutral, forward) so try them all and see if you do better with any of them. I'd personally recommend neutral.

You can also try different airstrings such as j.AC dj.AC for example. You'll still be losing damage over the ideal j.BC but nowhere near as much as you were originally.

Try to vary your timings and spacing, it's really not that hard when you get it down. Hisui has some really good setups that I wouldn't consider anything less than essential to her game, but they're more advanced and only become possible once you can get past the barriers of basic execution.

You can shit on my attitude all you want scottind, but the guy is saying he's here to learn, the time he put making this thread is proof enough to me, and I'll be damned if he learns anything from people that tell him he can get away with bnbs that barely do half the damage they should.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 05:55:04 AM by Sphyra »
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