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Author Topic: Hisui Throw Okizeme  (Read 20974 times)

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Offline CT_Warrior

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Hisui Throw Okizeme
« on: May 23, 2008, 10:06:16 PM »
I'm not saying that I know how to use Hisui as an expert, but I guess it would help to have a section that specifically has to do with.. well, her okizeme.

Ground Throw Okizeme Options (some of these work a lot better if you throw them the other way, 4Q)-

1) Low meaty (2a,2c) It is my experience that you should learn how to time these correctly instead of just mashing 2a since there's a higher chance that you could get thrown or poked. Follow up with whatever blockstrings and hitconfirms that you use.
2) Jump straightup, hold forward immediately (optional jC whiff before switching going behind them because it confuses them, but can sometimes attract unwanted attention to where your sprite is) so that you end up behind them (learn to time it so that you land behind them a little before they fully wakeup)
3) Jump straightup, hold forward after waiting a bit so that you end up in front of them (this won't work well if you don't train them to think it's a crossover.)
3a) Jump straightup, hold forward after waiting a bit , 2b/2c whiff (or hit if you time it really late))
4) walk forward a little, jump diagonal forward, dash backward as late as possible, 2c (time it so that you're dashing backward while they're standing up, or your own discretion)
5) Classic Obento Box/Chair
6) If you have Kohaku assist, I'd recommend using her summons if she's positioned correctly just because it works and it's pretty cute, heheh. Someone needs to write me a guide on how to use them.

EDIT: Whoa, try options 2 with jC whiff and 3a, they seem really identical so much that it's scary. o_o

2C-

I highly don't recommend okizeme for this, just do a damaging combo.
But this is for when you're staggering and you hit it unexpectedly.

1) Wait a bit and do some in the air attacks, however you want, experiment.
2) Obento/Chair
3) Ground meatys


Air Throw Okizeme -

Well, if they don't tech, that is.
1) I don't know how ikusat did it in his Hisui tutorial video on youtube, but he used jB as a crossup.
2) Obento/Chair
3) Ground Meaty
4) Air attacks

Personally, if it was in my ability, I'd do either 1, 2 or 4.
I don't know how to use the obento boxes at all, and I can't do ikusat's thingy. Just plain ground meaties are extremely easy to block (just.. block them) and you can do ground attacks after your air attacks anyway.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 10:22:01 PM by CT_Warrior »

Offline Numakie

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2008, 04:26:00 AM »
Some Okizeme's that i like to use

1)  Super jump forward and then dash back - (expanding a bit more on "Ground Throw Okizime" No4) Essentially you will cross over the enemy twice, baiting them to block wrong.
   
Follow ups:
A. j.C - Perhaps one of the best options in this situation, the Tables hitbox is so out there that it may most likely hit them when they get up.  I like to follow it up with a 236-C and continue the combo from there whether it continues or not.  This may get predictable however if done enough times.

B. Shield - Good players will wise up and may try to counter you with some crazy move (Curse that Ciel)  Use when you know they are gonna do a wake up move you know you cannot beat.

C. Air jump again - Can either be used defensively or as another cross up.

D. j2.C - In theory it may work since you become a massive hitbox going down. Done right, you might be able to cross them over a 3rd time and combo them from there.

E. Just land - Sometimes its better to just go down  and uhh... maybe throw them again or something... or hit em with a 2-B

---
2: EX Dust - Hell, it's there hovering above the opponent. It also opens all sorts of options (not limited to these options of course)
-It gives you 4 hit frames of cover to attempt to do some sort of High-Low game without the opponent noticing.
-It can even cover a Bento/Chair setup while they're standing. 
-If it catches them in a blocking jumping frame, you may be able to throw a guard crush (5A a blocking opponent in the air). 
-If they don't happen to block, then its free combo for you.
If you can spare some meter, might as well throw it out. Careful if the opponent is in Blood Heat though since they can wake up shield and hit you with a Last Arc.  *refers to a random casual against Lina back in uhh.. WT5 (i think) where he shielded my EX dust and killed me with Nanaya's Last arc.* :slowpoke:

---
Other fun, Probably impractical setups.

3: Stand there and do nothing. Then when they wake up, hit em with a 2b ;3

4: 2A whiff right before they get up and then throw them.

Cant think of more atm. :P

--
Oh yes, one other thing.
1) I don't know how ikusat did it in his Hisui tutorial video on youtube, but he used jB as a crossup.

There is actually 2 things going on here.
1. After an air throw, you can air dash, jump, attack, etc before you hit the ground.
2. Her back dash has an interesting property.
     a: If you do nothing during the back dash, then Hisui's backdash will halt prematurally and she will fall to the floor.
     b: If you do a jA, jB, or jC attack in mid backdash, she will keep flying backward rather fast. (If you need a comparison, Iori from KoF has something similar where he dashes back and you hit back-LK to make him go much farther back. It kinda works in a similar fashion.)

So essentially, in Ikusat's video, Hisui will Air throw an opponent, and after she plops them to the ground, she will do a dash back, then press jB to make her zoom over the opponent and land on the floor faster.

Hope this explains this.

-----
For anyone who wants to use any of these tactics i mentioned, use them at your own risk.  >:D
« Last Edit: May 24, 2008, 04:32:29 AM by Numakie »
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2008, 05:48:39 AM »
As far as meaty goes, 2B, 5B and 5[C] are your best options. Mix up the first two to discourage shielding, and 5[C] also beats low shields and can clash heat a lot.
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2008, 09:31:33 PM »
2A does not hit low. If you're going to go low always use 2B.

If you throw you should almost always do bento.

If you think they'll backdash after throw / bento set up, then set up B bento to catch the backdash or (if you have A bento set up) use 5C to catch the backdash as well. You can run up and throw as well if you think you've got the read.

And I've got tricks too, but I'm not sharing.

</3
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Offline Rowanism

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2008, 12:45:37 AM »
And I've got tricks too, but I'm not sharing.

</3

I beat you with pictures of Hisui naked.

For me, bento is always a good option, and, like Chibi said, the 22B bento for escapers since it's quite fast. Also, I've seen a retarded Sacchin trying to escape with 22A 22C cancel which can be easily predicted, blocked and punished thanks to the bento.
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Offline Numakie

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2008, 04:25:52 AM »

And I've got tricks too, but I'm not sharing.

</3

Pssh. no luv.  :toot:

I find myself using the bento alot more myself throw. These days I'm trying to use the chair more though. Beyond using the chair to set up more bentos, throw shit or use it as pseudo corner, I am not quite sure what else I can do with the chair.. or rather how to exploit it more...

Perhaps ill do some tests...
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<Pfhor>: because it makes no fucking sense
<Pfhor>: like WHY IS THIS HISUI DOING THESE THINGS

Offline DJcream

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2008, 04:04:23 PM »
meh most of my mixups involve j.2c. Old MvC2 habits work sometimes.
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Offline ikusat

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2008, 01:13:39 AM »
Being random is so good in this game that you can use basically anything discussed so far once in a while and it'll probably work.  That being said, bento oki with tick throws and high/low games should be your bread and butter.  Abuse it until it stops working 100%, and then starting throwing random into the mix.  You can probably go a really long way with just tick throws since it's so easy to score one off the bento.

If you face a wake up dp happy player, doing a bento and then neutral jumping towards them is a great way to counter it.  Their dragon punch will go under you, and if they choose to block, you will still land in time to throw them before the bento explodes.  The counter to this setup is a forward dash, but you can do backdash jc if you smell it, but that's just a whole other story.

Note that this only an example and is isn't the only use of the neutral jump wakeup game.

Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2008, 06:04:48 PM »
ikusat speaks the truth, as usual.
Heheh, I found a lot of better ones that work more often.

Kohaku summons are a lot more useful imo.
A set time that will hit the opponent instead of an obento coverup.

Hisui's plant summon seems more useful than Kohaku's all of a sudden, heheh.

Offline dakanya

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2008, 06:31:28 PM »
who needs summons when you can throw cats and dogs out of your ass, none of kohaku's assists even hit high
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2008, 08:37:33 PM »
I don't know who you're playing, but Kohaku as an assist is garbage, seriously.
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Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2008, 04:32:04 PM »
I'll PM you so that I can also keep it a "secret" if it works. Please don't make fun of me if it doesn't work. ;_;

Offline Sphyra

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2008, 05:11:08 PM »
Untill 214 lets me throw Kohaku around at various angles I'll stick to solo Hisui.
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Offline Numakie

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008, 05:14:44 PM »
I like playing both versions of Hisui (solo and team). However, I find that stuff'fu has better uses overall then Kohaku Assist.  It is also much safer as well.

-Hisui's call out animation takes a painfully long time to do to use kohaku.  Stuff-fu has 2 versions of start up and an ex version that goes out quickly.
-The opponent can stop Kohaku but they cannot stop the Pot.

I believe that to use Kohaku assist effectively, you have to give up some of your air game (IE: Give up air combo's) for sweep Okizimes.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 05:33:51 PM by Numakie »
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<Pfhor>: because it makes no fucking sense
<Pfhor>: like WHY IS THIS HISUI DOING THESE THINGS

Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 05:45:08 PM »
Kohaku assist not being an overheard just destroys any real practical use she would have with Hisui on point. She's too slow, the actual attacks suck, it's just not threatening at all. Stuff-fu is a huge part of Hisui's game, both offensively and defenisvely, so giving them up for Kohaku just doesn't come off as being anywhere near a fair trade.
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Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2008, 05:51:17 PM »
That's true, but I still wanna be a true HisuKoha player, switching around during real matches. Might cost me some, but oh well.

Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2008, 06:38:24 PM »
A true HisuiKoha player is going to play Kohaku on point and Hisui as an assist, otherwise you're just attempting to inflate your ego by playing a gimped version of Hisui.
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2008, 07:29:14 AM »
I picked HisuKoha once. "What the hell is that bitch doing there? ...Oh shit wrong character."
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Offline Numakie

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 03:11:50 PM »
If only you can have Kohaku and Stuff-fu at the same time... that shiz would be sick  ;D
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<Pfhor>: because it makes no fucking sense
<Pfhor>: like WHY IS THIS HISUI DOING THESE THINGS

Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2008, 01:35:22 PM »
Well, if you take it at another view. HisuKoha loses her stuff-fu, but gains not only her Kohaku summons, but also Kohaku.
When you have to fight really bad matchups (not only characters, but maybe even people who are just the counters of your style!), then you can just use Kohaku instead.

It works for me, but that's because I'm a low-level player, but I'll just keep using HisuKoha since I only use stuff-fu a few times a game anyway.
I can swear that there are at least some uses for Kohaku summons whether situational or whatever, but I'm not trying to inflat my ego since it means that I can switch between Kohaku and Hisui whenever I want for whatever reason.

Offline dakanya

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2008, 01:45:37 PM »
Does Hisui really have any extremely unfavorable matchups?

Looking at the tier list that Arlieth compiled, it says she's 4.63 against Ciel and Sion, 4.5 against Miyako, and 4.75 against Akiha and V.Akiha. This puts her at a B+ tier and assumes that she has stuff-fu.

Kohaku has so many unfavorable matchups that she's considered to be D tier without her Hisui assists.

HisuKoha is at a C-and it is probably assumed that the dominant character is Kohaku.
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2008, 03:48:35 PM »
I always thought the Shikis were her most unfavorable match up.

Go figure.
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Offline Numakie

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2008, 12:22:30 AM »
Playing HisuKoha more with Hisui lead more, i found that you have a fairly good advantage if you follow sweeps with Kohaku Assists.  Also this Hisui will have to rely much more on her chairs and bentos to support Kohaku assist.  Of course the main problem is keeping the opponent grounded. 

That is how I found it to be while playing around.
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<Pfhor>: because it makes no fucking sense
<Pfhor>: like WHY IS THIS HISUI DOING THESE THINGS

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2008, 05:42:31 PM »
Bento and chair are good enough on their own, you don't need some half ass set-up with Kohaku to add more to it, especially when someone can literally BLOCK LOW the entire time. I mean pot-book on its own is far better then Kohaku assist period.
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Offline Rowanism

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Re: Hisui Throw Okizeme
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2008, 06:20:37 PM »
That's true indeed, the only good thing about Hisui lead is when you do 214C, because you can punish high blockers with 2C, and low blockers eat Kohaku's jC, but even that is not a good one because Kohaku runs to the point where the enemy is when you did the command for 214C, if the enemy moved meanwhile, it won't hit.

So Hisui alone is really better than Hisui Team lead. Stuff-fu.
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