When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?

Author Topic: Hisui wake-up?  (Read 6275 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Xavori

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Magic Circuits: 5
    • View Profile
Hisui wake-up?
« on: July 16, 2008, 08:46:51 PM »
What should Hisui do on wake-up? And what are the pros and cons of 5B? ((It's not covered in the main Hisui thread's "Normals to know" section.)) Also, is the stuff-fu command 2142A or Ren-style 214A2?

Offline F9|Chibi

  • Strongest Idiot
  • *****
  • Posts: 2926
  • Magic Circuits: 136
  • portrait of eternal joy
    • View Profile
    • Pishi~
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2008, 09:07:15 PM »
Quote
What should Hisui do on wake-up?

Block.

Yes I'm serious. Things like jumping straight up, back dashing and the like are character / situation dependant. Outside of that Hisui has no specials worth using as a reversal, and that includes ex-ladle.

Quote
And what are the pros and cons of 5B?

pros - Really awesome priority, has clash frames. Good to use in block strings, stuff an opponent from wake up jumps.

cons - lack of range, doesn't look sexy.

Quote
Also, is the stuff-fu command 2142A or Ren-style 214A2?

Stuff-fu commands:

2142A - Just pot, comes out very quickly, good to use to control the air. Peak of the arc is higher then pot books, so it covers less space horizontally.

2146A - Just book. Also comes out very quickly, hits twice and has clash frames (if I'm not mistaken). Tiny bit of frame advantage on block.

2141B - Pot books. Both pot and book come out together, excellent way to control space and as a means of getting in. Comes out slower then using them individually, but still really good. Pot here comes out slower but has a lower peak in its arc, so it covers more space horiztonally then just pot.

21416B - Tray books. A flying metal tray and book come out together. Tray comes out VERY fast, good to use when you want to force your opponent to into a situation, or to keep nailing them from across screen if they're attempting to set things up (Aoko for example). Book also comes out.

Those are the ones you should be using primarily, the others aren't all that hot.

;p
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 09:09:11 PM by Master Chibi »
~*Hai! Back to Japan!


pishi.wordpress.com - Updated once a week~

Offline Xavori

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Magic Circuits: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2008, 09:13:53 PM »
Aww, anti-male shove doesn't look sexy? :3

Anyways, thank you very much!!

Offline Tsubasa☆

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 333
  • Magic Circuits: 12
  • 2πr(θ/360)
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 10:31:29 PM »
I'm also going to voice the dissenting view that 5B is sexy looking.

Constructive edit:
I was too busy justifying 5B to add real input. ^^;

Stuff-fu options:
I happen to enjoy using 2143A and 2143B on occasion.  It's for the big vase, which arcs slightly across the screen slowly.  1. It arcs ever so slightly higher than any of the completely horizontal options and 2. it's slow, so it persists for a while.  2143B also comes with a horizontally flying clothes hanger, so that covers the space directly in front of you better than 2141B, at the sacrifice of anti-air.  I toss out 2143B sometimes when I don't feel the need for the metal tray in 2146B.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 11:03:41 PM by dakanya☆ »
-Tsubasa

puKKa

  • Guest
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 02:06:49 AM »
AD works great, and is safe, though it's a bit pricey. 236C gets beat up by most moves and even 2A spam, but it can work against some moves with recovery. But if it misses.. yeah.. you know what happends..

I think blocking is a good choice

Offline Sphyra

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Magic Circuits: 9
  • Mind Over Doesn't Matter
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 04:57:30 AM »
ur all dum lol

Stuff-fu is Ren style, 214A2 for example. You do the 214A (or B) and whichever direction you're holding by the time the items come out is what you'll get.

Another 5B con: You get 4B on accident sometimes lolol I know it happens to everyone! Don't lie!

5B should be your main high normal. People who like to shield low a lot, palm them in the face and say no! Other than that you can use it in your ground block strings with staggers and all that, or in combos to get a bit more damage. Not that great of a tool standalone though so you should stay away from it while zoning. It can kinda work as anti-air but you really don't need a kinda work when you have other tools like 214A2 (POT) and 623B.
Don't give in to astonishment!

Offline Frostbolt

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Magic Circuits: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 07:01:26 PM »
I get more 6B's. Dashing 5B gets misinputted quite abit. Also it has no proration so if you hit someone with it, you gain a nice Dustloopaaa

On wakeup, Hisui hasnt got many options, but AD is a very good one if you ever have the meter
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 07:13:10 PM by Frozenwave »
~3~

Offline Lolly

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Magic Circuits: 3
  • hurp
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 09:47:21 PM »
ex dust works as a ghetto reversal simply because of its speed. It won't beat meaties so don't go trying it on wakeup too often, but at 3f it'll stuff plenty of reckless dash-ins or iads. Even if they manage to airblock, it'll keep them in blockstun long enough to net a guard break combo. Even when you trade with this move it will in your favour 99% of the time

Offline F9|Chibi

  • Strongest Idiot
  • *****
  • Posts: 2926
  • Magic Circuits: 136
  • portrait of eternal joy
    • View Profile
    • Pishi~
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2008, 01:11:39 AM »
ex dust as a reversal only works if you get air thrown the shiki's into the corner

otherwise i think its best not to waste it that way, but hay, if it works it works i suppose
~*Hai! Back to Japan!


pishi.wordpress.com - Updated once a week~

Offline Xavori

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Magic Circuits: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2008, 10:46:29 AM »
Thanks so much, everyone! I appear to still be stuck in the scrub zone; mind if I ask for more help? ^^;;

I appear to have spacing problems. After a ground throw, I do 22A, but it sets up quite far behind the opponent and doesn't prep in time to beat any move that goes forwards. I'm now walking towards the opponent after 22A for a few frames before they can get up, but after seeing more Hisui replays I think I'm doing something wrong.

Also, what are the advantages to Airthrow>jump instead of Airthrow>airdash>(j.B)?
And does anyone here prefer the Groundthrow>double neutral jump mix-up over Throw>22A/B?

And, in Max Heat against opponents without projectiles, do you recommend doing random 623C>dash into dust>22A/B/Cs?

Offline Sphyra

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Magic Circuits: 9
  • Mind Over Doesn't Matter
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 05:55:10 PM »
I don't see how you could screw up the spacing on throw > bento... It usually lands a little behind them when you do it midscreen but they're still within range. You sure you're not doing 22B? heh

You don't need to do anything after airthrow. You can land and still punish every tech directions accordingly. You do airdash j.b to cross over them and place them in the corner, if the positioning requires it. Double jumping does that too but I don't find it as reliable... I guess it's easier to do, but it's harder to punish teching with it than airdash.

I never really use the double neutral jump stuff, but that's mostly because I keep them in the corner.

Do whatever you want after a mid screen ex dust, they're not going to come after you.
Don't give in to astonishment!

Offline Frostbolt

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Magic Circuits: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2008, 01:14:32 PM »
Quote
Do whatever you want after a mid screen ex dust, they're not going to come after you.

youd be surprised
~3~

Offline F9|Chibi

  • Strongest Idiot
  • *****
  • Posts: 2926
  • Magic Circuits: 136
  • portrait of eternal joy
    • View Profile
    • Pishi~
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2008, 07:18:13 PM »
Quote
Do whatever you want after a mid screen ex dust, they're not going to come after you.

youd be surprised

if you SIT directly in the dust what the hell are they going to do to you?

that has to be the safest activation set up in the entire game
~*Hai! Back to Japan!


pishi.wordpress.com - Updated once a week~

Offline ikusat

  • Melty Muffin
  • ***
  • Posts: 98
  • Magic Circuits: 102
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2008, 10:41:31 PM »
Wakeup 214c.  Get quintiple counterhit, pile on the pain.  FUCK YEAH

Wakeup ex dust is also valid for other stupid reasons like trading with 2A attacks.  Your dust will get stuffed by the 2A, but they're stuck frozen in the super flash frame stop while you recover from the hit during it and then do your own counter hit 2A into combo FUCK YEAH.

Offline Sphyra

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Magic Circuits: 9
  • Mind Over Doesn't Matter
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 06:56:38 AM »
youd be surprised

Any player with half a brain will back away when you put out an ex-dust. Moving in on a Hisui that is next to a dust risks getting the dust pushed into you, or you pushed into the dust.

Ex-dust on wakeup is mostly only for when you see that they're too far away to connect a proper meaty (Aoko airthrow, Sion airthrow, Shiki airthrow, etc). Never use it otherwise. Also it's not 100% safe, there are ways to beat it so don't throw it out everytime.

Ex-Stuff fu and Ex-Laddle are trash. The only shit worse than a wakeup DP is a wakeup DP without full invincibility.
Don't give in to astonishment!

Offline Tsubasa☆

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 333
  • Magic Circuits: 12
  • 2πr(θ/360)
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2008, 08:37:37 PM »
Wakeup ex dust is also valid for other stupid reasons like trading with 2A attacks.  Your dust will get stuffed by the 2A, but they're stuck frozen in the super flash frame stop while you recover from the hit during it and then do your own counter hit 2A into combo FUCK YEAH.

I have to do this sometime. XD
-Tsubasa

Offline ikusat

  • Melty Muffin
  • ***
  • Posts: 98
  • Magic Circuits: 102
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2008, 12:19:31 AM »
More seriously, using wake up EX anything with Hisui is really just moving onto a really low level of yomi.  Depending on what level the other guy is on it might work, but in general is really a bad move.

I love using 236C because it has the startup invincibility.  It's really slow to hit so it only works if they use a non A attack.  But if they just block it you're going to be in a world of pain.  If they're crouching and more than a few character widths away from you, you're probably going to be in a world of pain.  However I still fully endorse using this because it's awesome.

The hit trade with the 623C I describe above is actually a just frame, and the timing is similar to throwing Hisui out of her Arc Drive.  It's funny if you get it but you'll most likely just get stuffed and waste a meter.  You might throw off their timing if they don't mash, but it's really not worth spending 100 meter on.

214C is absolutely awful to use.  It does have invincibility, but it's not at the start.  If they're terrible at timing their attacks the payoff is absolutely delicious and the psychological impact is crushing, but if they got hit by this then you probably would have beat them anyways.

Just block.

Offline Xavori

  • Jr. Spellcaster
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Magic Circuits: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2008, 02:31:04 PM »
 :slowpoke: Concerning the bentous, it was because I always blocked, instead of attacked, in oki.

But one more question: With someone with a 623 like Aoko's that moves the character out of bentou range, is there any more advantageous way to utilize the knockdown? Because it feels like a game of rock-paper-scissors instead of actually having control over the opponent, if all I can do is pick poke or block...

Offline Sphyra

  • Spellcaster
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Magic Circuits: 9
  • Mind Over Doesn't Matter
    • View Profile
Re: Hisui wake-up?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2008, 08:24:23 PM »
Knockdown > Bento > Wait and see > Throw

Beats a million options. I don't know how many times I said this in how many threads now. It's playing rock paper scissors where rock beats everything except jump. You don't like that now?!
Don't give in to astonishment!