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Author Topic: j.BB Tech Punish Strings  (Read 19159 times)

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Offline Sphyra

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j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« on: February 24, 2008, 09:23:41 AM »
I get asked every once in awhile about this stuff, so using copy pasta magic in paint and some free time I decided to list down the various strings that I use to go into j.BB tech punish setups so you never have to airthrow again, or at least less often. It's possible to go from anywhere on the screen using the correct string. These all assume you are facing the right corner and will bring the opponent there at an appropriate distance to catch them with 5A 2C tech punish.

If you don't know about the j.BB setup you can find more about it in Ikusat's Hisui video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tRF2tZPdnec

Note that this does not cover all the possible strings, only the ones I use most. Also, I wrote down the numbers based on Hisui's positioning, not the opponent. It should all be fairly accurate but some of it may vary slightly (using a different ground string without as much pushback, for example).



1
2A 2B 5C(2hits) 2C 6C j.C airdash j.B dj.ACBB
Covers about half the screen. I often delay the first j.B in this string to push them further and gain better height spacing. The doublejump needs to be neutral (input with 8 instead of 9).

2A 2B 2C 5C(2hits) 6C j.BC dj.CBB
Works from around the 1 on the map to the corner. Again, neutral doublejump. I usually prefer the first string as it often offers a better height, especially on some characters that can be harder to punish, but this can work too.


2
2A 2B 2C 5C(2hits) j.BC dj.CBB
For when you're just passed the middle. Input the first jump neutral if you're really close to the center and forward if you're a little further away from it.


3
2A 2B 5C(2hits) 2C 6C j.C airdash j.BB
Kinda hard to catch forward techs with this one but if they tech neutral or don't tech it does the job for that range. This could also work from position 2 with a neutral jump but the other string easily deals more damage.


4
2A 2B 5C(2hits) 2C 6C j.CB dj.AC airdash j.BB
It's considerably harder to tech punish off this one when you land as the timing seems to be more strict, but if you want to go from full screen this will carry them all the way to the other corner with you right in position to catch them. This can also be used after catching a forward tech (5A 2C 6C j.CB dj.AC airdash j.BB).
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2008, 07:39:06 PM »
Going all the way from the opposite corner for a tech punish is a bit much, don't you think?

One and two should be necessary to learn, but three and four I'm not sure of.

Just my humble opinion on the matter.

(I've never see any of these combos in match vids either, but then every freaking Hisui I've taken note of is bonkers and rarely share things in common outside of just the 5A 2C tech punish in the corner).

Personally I'm just trying to get the combo in Iku's tutorial down for better spacing (at the beginning of the situational combo section for tech punishing).

>_<
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 07:40:59 PM by Master Chibi »
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2008, 08:30:10 PM »
I rarely use four myself. The only times I use it, or seen it used, was on forward tech punish. I have a lot of trouble getting the 5A 2C to work with that string though, timing seems really tight. It's just nice to catch people who think teching forward will free them from getting looped with tech punishes.

Three I use a bit more often, but you obviously lose a few hundred damage and I don't think you can catch forward techs with it. But I guess now that I've said it everyone will know. Oh well.

Well if you combo from inside the corner airthrow should bring them in it anyway, and you can land and catch their attempt to tech away from it, or they can stay inside and you keep an advantageous position. Not much need to carry them all the way to the other corner.
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 08:41:20 PM »
Quote
Well if you combo from inside the corner airthrow should bring them in it anyway, and you can land and catch their attempt to tech away from it, or they can stay inside and you keep an advantageous position. Not much need to carry them all the way to the other corner.

Yeah sometimes even if I'm just a bit out of the corner I'll do her BnB then air jump away from the corner. That way if they tech into the corner,  well they're still in the corner, and if they tech out of the corner I believe I can nail them with something on the way down from the jump. Little bit of that random melty blood.

Getting a real fix on this character (to write up a guide) is hurting my damn head. She's got so much shit to be flexible with, god damn. I'm not dismissing any of the combos you've written here mind you, but ahdering to this totally changes the way I've played her or ever seen her play, but then that's just preference really. I'm just trying to forever get my head around this character of mine.

Quote
Three I use a bit more often, but you obviously lose a few hundred damage and I don't think you can catch forward techs with it. But I guess now that I've said it everyone will know. Oh well.

I thought so, haha.

If I wrote a guide would you help ;p?

Something more concrete mind you, a foundation to go with so that other people can then develop their own style with.

:V
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 08:43:22 PM by Master Chibi »
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2008, 08:53:37 PM »
Quote
If I wrote a guide would you help ;p?

Sure thing. There's other stuff I want to write about such as corner ex dust shenanigans and bento setups. But if we can organize it all under one large guide that would be good.
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2008, 12:38:17 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QafyQ2swT0A

Here's some visuals for anyone else that may want to talk a peak. I take it you ran the tech punishes in order from 1-4?

I'm one of those people who learns things a bit better from looking at it then I do just writing it down and reproducing it, so thanks.

None of those combos seem hard to utilize at all, but I just wanted some more information on them.

Are they ALL guaranteed 100%? Can you tech foward on any of them and get out (like # 3?)? Are they REALLY position specific to utilize properly or lenient instead?

Personally, do you think it's worth it to have ALL four in your arsenal (as in would you suggest a new Hisui player to have this down pat, something I'm thinking of putting in the guide)?

Presently I think 1 and 4 are necessary, while 2 and 3 can be used by personal preference, but obviously I'd like more input on the matter, say from you or Ikusat.

I'll see about using these punishes in actual matches irl once I get them all down.

Sorry, I'm slow.

:I
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 06:59:18 PM by Master Chibi »
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2008, 06:31:33 AM »
Only the 2C 6C j.C ad j.BB string can't catch forward techs for some reason, but after a string like that one, usually teching toward you isn't the reaction of most people. All the other strings can catch anything if your spacing is correct, and of course you need to delay the 5A 2C a bit to catch forward techs as opposed to doing it immediately to catch neutral and no techs. The Akihas are Rens are also still a pain to catch as always, although 2A 2C bento for them seems to help a lot... I know it'll work on the Rens, still not sure about Akiha.

I personally think that you should go for j.BB setups whenever you have the chance to do it, as it really adds terror to Hisui's game. Sure finishing with airthrow might do more damage than with j.BB, but if you factor in the 2C, the possible relaunch and/or the bento, you have much more to gain. It can be a bit tricky to learn to use different strings to obtain the correct spacing depending on where you are, but like hitconfirming you get accustomed to it, and if you're not certain you can simply end with airthrow. New players, after they get the most basic stuff down such as her BNBs, should probably look into at least 2A 2B 2C 5C 6C j.BC neutral dj.CBB in the corner, and then when they're comfortable with that slowly learn to space j.BB from other positions on the screen.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 06:34:35 AM by Sphyra »
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2008, 08:41:58 PM »
Ok, well then I'm not going to include #3 in the guide then (I believe this is the only one that uses the string you mentioned). It's one thingto get these strings down to cut back scrub tendencies (ie people ALWAYS teching regardless of how many times you punish them), but if it isn't 100% worthy as an option select then I don't think it needs to be learned. It wouldn't even be needed for spacing because any decent player would realize that teching foward (aka out of the corner) would get them out of the punish for free, which pretty much ruins whatever momentum you had going anyway.

The rest I'll throw in the guide, and work on learning myself. I'm not sure if I'm going to entirely get rid of actually doing her BnB at all (somehow that doesn't click with me) but with time it'll settle in and become second nature.

I just hope the spacing isn't so strict that it's more of a minus then a plus.

Though I hate to admit it, your constant bettering as a Hisui player forces me to step up my game as well, as I've really never put this much work into a character before (my character choices in other game are almost always of the simple yet effective variety), but I have to thank you for being a rival of sorts, it's quite a fufilling expierence. I'd love it if we were to end up as the Jin and Mr. P of this hemisphere, haha.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 08:45:48 PM by Master Chibi »
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Offline dakanya

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2008, 09:28:25 PM »
Though I hate to admit it, your constant bettering as a Hisui player forces me to step up my game as well, as I've really never put this much work into a character before (my character choices in other game are almost always of the simple yet effective variety), but I have to thank you for being a rival of sorts, it's quite a fufilling expierence. I'd love it if we were to end up as the Jin and Mr. P of this hemisphere, haha.
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Offline Pfhor

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2008, 04:57:54 PM »
I've been practicing this a lot lately, so much so that my fingers are kinda hurting a bit :emo: :emo: :emo:. Good way to make sure you are hitting your tech punish is to set the practice dummy to crouch, if the 5a doesn't whiff you timed it right.

I've been wondering what kind of tech punish options hisui's air throw has.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 05:02:48 PM by Pfhor »

Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2008, 05:20:40 PM »
You can set the AI to crouch block and start your string with j.C if you really want to be sure you did it right.

After airthrow it's fairly simple. You can land without doing a thing and wait to see if they try to tech behind you and catch it with 2B, or you can land and dash forward to catch them with 2B if they try to tech away. You can 2B neutral tech on both options.
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2008, 05:37:06 PM »
Realistically speaking, you get the exact same options that you do with Sphyra's makeshift tech punish strings, but imho its up to the player because you still have to guess if they're going to tech out of the corner once you get them there (ie the need to delay your 5A or not) but if you get them in the corner you get the option of putting out chair / bento for free, where as from airthrow in midscreen you'd have to know your opponent better to do such a thing.

Personally, I keep with (1) and (4) and don't really bother with (2) or (3), but that's just me~
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2008, 05:48:43 PM »
Actually I've stopped using delayed 5A for corner j.BB tech punish. I use 5A 2C to catch neutral/no tech and if I smell a forward tech I use 2B. If they don't tech when I use 2B, I can get an OTG string and possibly get a chair out of it. Examples in the video Psylocke posted.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2860179
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2008, 05:51:27 PM »
haha

That's like going backwards a year, I'm not sure I could do that as I like 5A 2C too much.

Damn you Hisui, you are forever a mystery to play~
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2008, 06:09:09 PM »
I wouldn't call it regressing though, and mixing 5A 2C with 2B is fairly common anyway. Jin does it too, for example. With this you're able to cover 2/3 of your opponent's options for every situations.

5A 2C will beat neutral and no tech, and lose to forward tech.

2B will beat forward and no tech, and lose to neutral tech (though I wouldn't really call it lose since they'll be forced into blocking).

Of course 5A 2C will provide better setups against no tech than 2B will, so it's used much more unless your opponent likes to tech forward a lot.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 06:11:14 PM by Sphyra »
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2008, 07:00:10 PM »
I only call it regressing because before they had ever thought of using 5A 2C they were pushing 2B 2B as a tech punisher since like ver. A, haha.

But yeah, you can go with that, but I'm stick with my 5.A 2.C <3
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Offline Lolly

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2008, 10:16:26 PM »
spending meter just to get a chair setup seems kinda costly, and they still have the option to tech out after the OTG. Since you're still recovering from 22c you're left with very little time to punish. 2a to catch forward tech, im not even sure you could get a neutral or back tech.

i do see jp players use chair alot tho. Like every OTG, after a circuit spark even after an airthrow sometimes and i know if i were to even attempt it id get smacked in the face.

usually only go with 2b for akihas and len.

Offline dakanya

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 10:52:15 PM »
what else do you use that meter on anyways
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Offline Rowanism

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2008, 05:41:28 AM »
AD's. And EX Dusts.

I think Hisui is one of the few characters where meter doesn't matter. Sometimes an EX vase throw to keep your enemy away or against Nero. But anything else... is useless. 236C is pretty much bunker cancellable if blocked.
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2008, 10:23:33 AM »
You don't need to EX Dust to place down a chair after OTG if you're confident they won't tech. If they like teching it then that's an opportunity for more damage, which is already better than a chair. If you're in MAX mode then go ahead and EX Dust in your OTG.

2A 2C bento is the solution for Akiha and Ren.

214C is worthless. 236C's only use is to piss you off when you somehow screw up and it comes out instead of 623C.
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Offline ikusat

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2008, 12:09:36 AM »
236C is pretty much fucking awesome.

Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2008, 04:46:22 PM »
you say every freaking move hisui has is awesome

>:"|
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Offline Sphyra

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2008, 05:17:15 PM »
236C is pretty much fucking awesome.

stfu ur a 5[c] scrub
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Offline Numakie

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2008, 05:48:11 PM »
you say every freaking move hisui has is awesome

>:"|

But every move IS awsome!!  :slowpoke:
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Offline Alfonse

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Re: j.BB Tech Punish Strings
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2008, 06:14:44 PM »
you say every freaking move hisui has is awesome

>:"|

No shit! Hisui is awesome, and so are her moves.
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