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Author Topic: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.  (Read 10673 times)

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Offline Darkshine

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Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« on: April 16, 2007, 04:59:11 PM »
I'd just like to start this out by saying hello to ya's all, as this is my first post here. I've been lurking for a couple of weeks until now.

Anyhoo, I'm interested in learning the basics of Kohaku, however, it seems as though no one plays here, in Japan or America. As such, I'm going to list my general tactics I've observed. hope fully, some of ya' will add some input as well.

Anyhoo:

j. B: This seems to be the primary normal for aerial combat, as it has a VERY long reach and seems to have a bit of priority.

j. C: I'm fairly certain this is an overhead, though, I can't exactly check right now as I don't own Act Cadenza myself. This seems to be the move for attacking someone while they are on the ground. In addition it combos rather nicely.

B: Another normal with relatively long range, and an all around good combo starter.

C: Launcher, though I rearely ever see anyone actually attempt to perform any air combos with Kohaku, as her ground combos seem to be relatively powerful.

236A: Does nice damage and is used in essentially every bloody one of Kohau's combos. It seems to be able to hit opponents OTG.

236C: Very, very good EX special. You can cancel 236A into this, which is what is generally done in most of Kohaku's combos.

22B: It's a twirling bush of death. This is used primarily for corner traps. If you score a knockdown with your opponent in the corner, drop one of these bastards and they won't escape, as the only way to go for them is up, which of course you will bewaiting for them to attempt.

22C: It's the cactus of doom. Place this on the ground in front of your opponent and then superjump over them and attack them from their other side.

The majority of Kohaku players mainly play keep away with their insanely long ranged pokes, punishing the opponent when they make a mistake with a ground combo and then dropping either a bush or cactus, depending on the opponen't position, to set up another combo opportunity.

I would list some combos, but honestly, I don't know what her optimal combos are, so I'd rather leave that to someone who knows more than I.

Input please, and, if I've said something incorrect, please do not hesitate to correct me. I'm new to Melty blood in general, so, I'm sure to be wrong about many things. :)

Offline Psylocke

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2007, 06:49:42 PM »
The PishiWiki gives a pretty good explanation of what she's capable of: http://ikusat.mac.org/mbac/index.php/Kohaku

People don't normally play Kohaku solo, as she gains so much more when played as a team(awesome 214B Hisui assist as a blockstring ender, another overhead option with 214C).  However, Kohaku does gain a fairly formidable anti-air, which is shield(EX or regular, it doesn't matter, though if it's EX, you're better off doing 5A and then doing an aircombo), and then XX command throw.  The XX means you delay for a bit, as if you do the command throw too early after the shield, it'll come out before the opponent lands, making it whiff.  The other thing solo Kohaku gains is 214A/B, which were pretty useless pre-Ver.B, but have a fairly specific use now.  Basically, 214A/B now allows you to move in the air after you do it, so a practical application for this is when you have your opponent trapped in the corner with a plant setup, you do 214A/B, and after the move is over, you can do a basic high/low mixup by doing airdash j.B/j.C, landing and doing 2A, or doing an empty airdash into whatever.  The explosion from the move partially covers up Kohaku, making it difficult for your opponent to tell what you're gonna do.

I'd also like to add that 22B can also be used midscreen, or anywhere outside of corner, though it's not as strong obviously.  When not in corner, your opponent now has the option to safely get away by backdashing or jumping away, but you can definitely punish each option.  For backdashing, what you can do after setting up the plant is do 2A for the low hit, and if the opponent backdashes, quickly empty cancel 2A into 2C to tag them.  Dashing up and ground throwing also works against some character.  To take care of opponents that try to jump away, you can dash up and do 5B or airthrow them.

When ending a ground combo into 22C(like 2C 236C 22C) midscreen, it's pretty standard now to superjump over them with j.C, and after you land behind the opponent, you can do the standard high/low with 2A or instant j.C.  What I've also seen recently is walking towards the opponent and then doing Kohaku's dodge(2A+B/2Q), which crosses up the opponent, making them eat the cactus if they don't block the right way.
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Offline Nas

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 09:37:37 AM »
i've been doing 2 A+B during 22C... very effective...i don't think it's good idea to finish an air combo into airthrow with kohaku just for the tech punishing/ otg hits... like for example like 2a 2b 2c 5c jabc... not finishing the airthrow just for potential for a relaunch or otg... just never thought the airthrow was good for air combos..

B is really good for anti-air...

although i have some problems with Arc... but meh... ill deal with it...
Basically... kind of a big deal....

Offline Satsujinki

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2007, 04:08:08 PM »
can anyone comfortably pull off druggie kohaku?
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Offline Chun (中)

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 01:37:30 AM »
can anyone comfortably pull off druggie kohaku?

Kohabon X is really not that practical; lot of meter used, super armor with little usage as well (Maybe for a single throw). Usually if I can get a 22C blockstun started, I can immediately pull the move off on a stick.

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Offline Mailorder

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2007, 01:54:53 AM »
Kohaku does gain a fairly formidable anti-air, which is shield(EX or regular, it doesn't matter, though if it's EX, you're better off doing 5A and then doing an aircombo), and then XX command throw.  The XX means you delay for a bit, as if you do the command throw too early after the shield, it'll come out before the opponent lands, making it whiff.

I've already asked this in IRC, but I'd like it posted on the forums so I have no excuse as to not knowing.  What's the follow-up combo after the command grab?

If I were playing Kohaku x Hisui and I landed an ex-shield against a jump-in, what's my highest damage combo?  It seems as if it couldn't be that much better than solo Kohaku's ex-shield XX command throw combo... which doesn't give me much incentive to play solo Kohaku (with the exception of your explanation of her game with the 22 commands)

Offline mizuki

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 02:35:04 AM »
I'd just like to add some things (I secretly play Kohaku solo)

Jumping B is now an overhead.
Both AD's are now unblockable, unshieldable, undodgeable. Your only choice is to jump mother fucker.
Her qcb A is now able to cancel into an air dash if you don't throw a Molotov, means you can do some neat things in the corner...


Also, if you ever play my solo Kohaku, you will get full screen psychic AD'ed at least once
what the fuck is this game

Offline Lolly

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 04:58:36 AM »
Some interesting tidbits: you can actually dodge both AD's at point blank, but theres no reason (that i can think of) why you wouldnt just jump out of it anyway.

Its also possible to circuit spark mid way through her BHAD, dash out and punish, so theres something to be careful of  :psyduck:

214a and 214c both leave you free to act in the air after they're done. You don't have to hold off on molotovs. With the A version you can still throw one and air dash after for some fiery mixup. 214b wont let you cancel to an air dash, you simply travel faster whilst doing the move. Pretty worthless.

Her shield bunker is also pretty similar looking to her 214[a], and hits low too AND knocks down for more plant setup.It even has a small EX cancel window so even if it does get blocked, you can chuck a cactus out and save yourself some possible punishment

Offline Soniti

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 05:06:21 AM »
Both AD's are now unblockable, unshieldable, undodgeable. Your only choice is to jump mother fucker.

Or invulnerability frames <3  :teach:

Offline mizuki

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 01:24:17 PM »
Some interesting tidbits: you can actually dodge both AD's at point blank, but theres no reason (that i can think of) why you wouldnt just jump out of it anyway.

Really? At Evo2k, Dippy tried it multiple times and never worked...
what the fuck is this game

Offline Lolly

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 03:40:46 PM »
Some interesting tidbits: you can actually dodge both AD's at point blank, but theres no reason (that i can think of) why you wouldnt just jump out of it anyway.

Really? At Evo2k, Dippy tried it multiple times and never worked...

yup, and not even pre dodging, you can do it in reaction to the EX flash..but you do have to be right in their face :p
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 03:42:52 PM by Lolly »

Offline Farpenoodle

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 06:54:55 PM »
Sad thing about the ADs now is you can't use them with plants anymore for guaranteed damage. You just fly right through them. :psyduck:

Small tip, they actually work pretty okay as anti-airs.

They're also fun to throw out for shits and giggles because they often hit unexpectedly. :toot:

Offline mizuki

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2007, 01:36:27 AM »
Sad thing about the ADs now is you can't use them with plants anymore for guaranteed damage. You just fly right through them. :psyduck:

Small tip, they actually work pretty okay as anti-airs.

They're also fun to throw out for shits and giggles because they often hit unexpectedly. :toot:

Actually BH version you're stuck there until they get out of blockstun. It's quite funny.
what the fuck is this game

Offline Canas

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2007, 10:11:35 PM »
But you can still jump out of it. (lets keep this a secret though =x)

Offline Jux

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2007, 12:04:46 PM »
Something I noticed after they made the Arc Drive unblockable was that if you KD then 22c on wake up and they block it then use the Arc Drive, it will attempt to hit the person while they are in the hitstun of the move, but it can't hit while the person is in hitstun so you may actually just fly through the opponent and crash into the wall.  Rather funny.  So the old set up with it guard crushing is completely gone and worthless.  Not to mention that you can bara-super jump out of the 22c tree iirc(Unless you are kohaku or M-Hisui).
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Offline Jassa_Noon

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2008, 12:44:51 AM »
I know this is a little late to say this but...  KOHAKU IS SO ADORABLE! :prinny: :prinny:

Personally I like solo kohaku more but that's just me  :blah: :blah:

Offline Xkun01

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 12:30:30 PM »
I'm working on ground tech traps and what not at the moment..NOt much else.
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Offline Shakunoha

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2008, 09:17:33 PM »
im having trouble with my plant set-ups. I knock them down then do 22b but they jump out or backdash.

Whats a few ways to keep the pressure on when i use my plants?

Offline Pfhor

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2008, 08:40:55 AM »
Basics to prevent them from jumping out or backdashing:

Meaty anything will beat jumpout. If you land a meaty 5c(1 hit) you can then 2[c] 2b 5b j.cba j.bc airthrow for around 5k damage, which as far as Kohaku damage goes is pretty top tier. This requires a very good read though as 5c will seldom punish backdashers if you do it before the backdash. (it tends to clash through DP's though).

As far as backdashing goes, put a move out to punish their backdash during it's recovery.

The safest way to cover both of these escape routes is to meaty 2a ( NOT MASHING IT LOL) to punish jumpouts and then 2c their backdash on reaction. What you want to do after either hit lands is up to you.

Dps such as nanaya's and white len's do a good job of negating Kohaku's plant setups. The best way to deal with them is to learn the properties of each move. Nanaya's 623b, for example, gives him enough invincibility to get into the air, take a few hits from the plant, and then airtech to safety. Focus on following up those few hits of a plant with an aircombo into a airthrow knockdown or j.c tech punish situation. This doesn't apply to Tohno's regular dps, but a whiffed 623c is the same deal. However, his ex dp has the interesting properties of having complete invincibility frames when the move connects, block or hit. Block it or send Hisui to get hit by it, then punish him after he lands without getting hit by the plant.

Just experiment with shit like that.


« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 08:46:20 AM by Pfhor »

Offline Shakunoha

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2008, 05:47:10 PM »
ok i use the ex shield when they attack from the air and the ground, but for some reason i cant seem to do an attack.i also play Akiha and know i can do a combo from a ex shield when they attack from the air does Kohaku have any ive tried a bunch ao things but nothing maybe im just doin it wrong so can you guys help?

Offline Xkun01

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Re: Soooooooooooooooooooo, let's talk Kohaku.
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2008, 10:24:01 AM »
5a is usually the best course of action to do after an ex shield from someone comming at you from the air.It has enough frames to where it can allow to even get in a short dash before you decide to do anything,and usually scores a CH regardless. You can go into many different things from it.Ex,you can ex shield,5a into.

On CH

5c(3 hits) j.bca jump cancel j.bca airthrow.

(wait for them  to drop for a moment)2c,5b, j.b j.bc airthrow.

Dash 5c(3hits) 236 2222c



So.....basically you have the choice of doing a combo,or an okizeme setup.

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