Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Act Cadenza => Shiki Tohno => : Tinshi April 15, 2007, 11:07:57 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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Ask anything you want about tohno I will give you ideas on how to play him i will be checking this daily.
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Being that you took 4th at the last TGA tourney, you gets +6 MC. However, I do think the title of your post (and your lack of punctuation) is pretty hard to take seriously. In the future, I'd avoid such statements(i.e.: "I'm the best") if I were you.
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Besides, I'm the best. ;D
Seriously though, I was waiting for someone to start a topic in the Tohno thread. I have an aversion to starting topics for reasons I don't know.
I guess I should ask a question, and this is kinda bugging me, but how does one fight ciel? It seems the only thing you can do is play uber defensively, which is hard 'cause Tohno's only strengths are his bullshit priority and damage.
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Haha.
You're like the only damn Tohno player.
:V
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I guess I should ask a question, and this is kinda bugging me, but how does one fight ciel? It seems the only thing you can do is play uber defensively, which is hard 'cause Tohno's only strengths are his bullshit priority and damage.
you stab her in the face, and stab her safely! :teach:
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I guess I should ask a question, and this is kinda bugging me, but how does one fight ciel? It seems the only thing you can do is play uber defensively, which is hard 'cause Tohno's only strengths are his bullshit priority and damage.
you stab her in the face, and stab her safely! :teach:
Oh wow thanks... y'know when I typed "play uber defensively" I totally didn't think that safety would be a factor.
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I guess I should ask a question, and this is kinda bugging me, but how does one fight ciel? It seems the only thing you can do is play uber defensively, which is hard 'cause Tohno's only strengths are his bullshit priority and damage.
you stab her in the face, and stab her safely! :teach:
Oh wow thanks... y'know when I typed "play uber defensively" I totally didn't think that safety would be a factor.
i was joking, but anyways.. since i dont play Tohno Shiki, i will just give Minor details that probalby could be wrong but watevers, For Shiki pokes and strings that leads to 5a Whiff against Ciel, you can go on the offensive just make sure you jumpin with anything but jC or jB form high places, low jumping jB or jC are ok.. cause you can land and block whatever punishment she gives..
doing 2C endign wtih 5A whiff cancels can save you from anythign such as EX heiro watevers.. dont do any Okizeme Meaty that can give you long recovery that Ciel can just Wake UP ex out of it.. stuff that can put you back into Neutral can save you from random Ciel stuff... shield jump ins like her cross up jB and stuff can also save you some stuff.. be careful of your activations blah blah blah :blah: tohno's 5B has pretty good clash frames if i remember correctily and can be used against some of Ciels jump ins to out clash stuff ;o... etc etc..
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Besides, I'm the best. ;D
Seriously though, I was waiting for someone to start a topic in the Tohno thread. I have an aversion to starting topics for reasons I don't know.
I guess I should ask a question, and this is kinda bugging me, but how does one fight ciel? It seems the only thing you can do is play uber defensively, which is hard 'cause Tohno's only strengths are his bullshit priority and damage.
you dont, you have nothing that can win aginst her.
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Well thats why I said I am probably the best right now because no one plays him. Also getting 4th their doesn't mean anything because it differs from the speed of the PS2.
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Hey Tinshi, how does Shiki beat bad Nanaya players? :V
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Nanaya has no defense, Shiki has bullshit damage and priority and an extendo-leg. Put two and two together. I haven't played very many Nanayas, good or bad, so I can't say anything specific.
But I can say that Japanese Tohno vs Nanaya matches are very boring. Its just spamming of jumping b and comboing off of it, so maybe the answer is use jumping b a lot. :-\
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nanaya average damage is much better than shiki, and nanaya 2c is stronger though
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That is true, but I believe that nanaya's defense makes shiki's damage roughly equal in a fight between Nanaya and shiki. I can't remember off the top of my head, and my ps2's currently not hooked up, or I would test it.
And Nanaya's 2c is better? I'll take your word for it, 'cause I can't test it atm.
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Alright, basically in this match-up watch the spamming A's cuz both shikis spam A alot so you have to look out for that and wakeup DP. Like especially wakeup DP that turns the tides. LoL Sometimes you have to DP back to get advantage. Hmm the best tactic is to basically look for them trying to jump in at you, and jump up with spamming A's. He wants to try and bait you to dash in so make him move around in the air so you can Air spam him or airthrow. If they are ground nanaya these matches are back and forth because you are constantly going in and out with dashes so keep up with the mindgame.
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Okay, here's a question probably only you can answer. What changes did they make to Shiki in Correction Edition?
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The dashing got toned down because it was to easy to bait pokes. Like most of the match would be him spazzing out with dashes, kinda like marvel dashing. Yeah that wouldn't have worked in this game.
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Okay, here's a question probably only you can answer. What changes did they make to Shiki in Correction Edition?
nothing.
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His throw is up from 3f to 4f, his AD/AAD has longer startup (of the actual hit), and his shieldbunker is faster... are the changes worth mentioning.
(info, comparing tougekidamashii verB2 framedata with ps2 framedata)
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And Nanaya's 2c is better? I'll take your word for it, 'cause I can't test it atm.
nanaya's 2C prorates less so he gets more damage off it but as a stand alone move tohno's 2C is waaaaay better
I play them both a bit. I can never figure out who I want to use in this game lol...I'm starting to lean toward tohno again...
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And Nanaya's 2c is better? I'll take your word for it, 'cause I can't test it atm.
nanaya's 2C prorates less so he gets more damage off it but as a stand alone move tohno's 2C is waaaaay better
I play them both a bit. I can never figure out who I want to use in this game lol...I'm starting to lean toward tohno again...
nanaya 2c have less recovery. more range. advances self. can tech punish. etc.
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are you kidding me? we are talking about their sweep moves right? tohno's is a much better poke as it is much faster
nanaya can't combo into his sweep if he starts a combo too far away while tohno can...which I think shows that nanaya's is slower (or just look at it...lol)
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shiki 2c when started at long range -> can connect to 5c and JB or JC 1 time, anything after wont connect
nanaya 2c when started at long range -> opponent recovers fast enough to guard the next 5c
BUT if you add delay to 2c, it connects.
the nanaya 2c is the *only* reason why he is in A tier
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I actually meant it the other way around...for example...
max range 2A hit > 2C
pretty sure nanaya's will not combo cause of it's slower speed
how do you to tech traps with nanaya's 2C?
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I actually meant it the other way around...for example...
max range 2A hit > 2C
pretty sure nanaya's will not combo cause of it's slower speed
how do you to tech traps with nanaya's 2C?
you dont start 2c after 2a
2a 2b 2c
like this.
or 2a 2b 5c 2c
tech punish is after down -> wait for opponent to tech -> 2c
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Tech punishing with Nanaya's 2c is soo easy. Soon as the opponent starts to ground tech you 2c and slide right into em. It has loads of active frames. I tech punish with it regularly. And any good Nanaya player won't start a combo on an opponent if they're that far away that you can't even combo into 2c.
I used to think Shiki's 2c was superior too, but once you understand how to use them both to the best of their abilities...Nanaya's 2c is a bit superior.
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uh...ok...I knew nanaya doesn't use 2A into 2C as a combo I was just using it as an example to show that it's slower...and after looking at the frame data it's i11 with -14 on block...shiki's 2C is i7 or something...anyway...
when would you have the opportunity to use 2C to tech trap? don't you just end every combo possible in the air throw anyway? and they won't be able to tech after a throw knockdown. is this only after nanaya 2C hits at max range or something?
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you can use after 214b
or after you have the chance to OTG
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it is true that 2c from nanaya is better than tohno.. mainly cuse of what ii_oh said above... oh 2C with nanaya amazing tech trap.. tohno's is decent though i use it pretty regular after getting right about three to four times..
loves tohno's qcf a and b.. sets up nice frame traps with 5 C... well i think with teh b version anyway..
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Nanaya 2c and Tohno 2c have really different uses.
Closest comparison is that nanaya's 2b does what tohno 2c does except it has lower stun/doesn't sweep.
They serve completely different purposes.
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Nanaya 2c and Tohno 2c have really different uses.
Closest comparison is that nanaya's 2b does what tohno 2c does except it has lower stun/doesn't sweep.
They serve completely different purposes.
This is what I was trying to get at. I just don't see myself whoring out nanaya's slide like you can with tohno's sweep.
in any case I'll be sure to try out some tech traps with nanaya's 2C next time I play...
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what are his clash frames per say... i want to say 5 B has some mad clash frames.. or qcf b but hey if anyone knows more please relay that shit...
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:o
Yo Nas, peep this Angry-ass Shiki (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OR4yTzJU_8E) player. It looks like Shiki didnt want to go to school that morning and decides to take it out on warakia at around 00:27.
2B*2>5C>2C>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>5A(whiff)>dash under>2C>214B>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>beJ7.C
he misses the beJ7.C but im guessing that he was either going for the untechable knockdown or could have maybe gone for beJ7.C>2A>5B>623B (I need to test if this is possible). The 5B>be5B is fairly easy to perform on wara so I suggest practicing it in case you run into one (or just for fun ;))
be = "beat edge" or charge/hold button. I couldn't use [ B ]cus the script thinks its bold =/
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One more thing he goes for in that vid is 2AA 5C 2C 236A 623C which is untechable knockdown at point blank range for 100% meter.
Shiki's 2C has clash frames at the very beginning of the move. It only clashes well against other sweeps though.
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be = "beat edge" or charge/hold button. I couldn't use [ B ]cus the script thinks its bold =/
Blowback Edge. I think the instruction booklet says?
The shiki was probably going for the j.[c] 2a combo. Note that the ex slide 5bb combo is only done against Wara/Nero that I've seen. Their bodies are long enough horizontally to do it, not sure if it works against anyone else.
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what are his clash frames per say... i want to say 5 B has some mad clash frames.. or qcf b but hey if anyone knows more please relay that shit...
On top of that, can someone figure out the actual frame data for tohno? I know I probably won't be using it that much, but just being able to have that reference for stuff like this would be helpful.
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:o
Yo Nas, peep this Angry-ass Shiki (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OR4yTzJU_8E) player. It looks like Shiki didnt want to go to school that morning and decides to take it out on warakia at around 00:27.
2B*2>5C>2C>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>5A(whiff)>dash under>2C>214B>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>beJ7.C
he misses the beJ7.C but im guessing that he was either going for the untechable knockdown or could have maybe gone for beJ7.C>2A>5B>623B (I need to test if this is possible). The 5B>be5B is fairly easy to perform on wara so I suggest practicing it in case you run into one (or just for fun ;))
be = "beat edge" or charge/hold button. I couldn't use [ B ]cus the script thinks its bold =/
Having quite some trouble with this combo. I'm able to do it up to:
2B*2>5C>2C>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>5A(whiff)>dash under>2C
and that's where the opponent recovers before my 2C connects. I'm whiff cancelling quick enough after my 5B(whiff)be5B to dash under and do C, but he's recovering too quickly. I notice in the video that Warachia gets a wallbounce after the 214C, which means he should be able to recover. Of course, that's why I'm intercepting him before that recovery with 5B(whiff)be5B... which should be uncoverable.. ? Yet he's recovering instead of landing on my 2C.
Tell me what I'm doing wrong:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gFmLl5uyqhw
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I need to try this combo as well. It doesn't do that much damage, but it just looks so impressive, and it'd totally dishearten the other player.
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:o
Yo Nas, peep this Angry-ass Shiki (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OR4yTzJU_8E) player. It looks like Shiki didnt want to go to school that morning and decides to take it out on warakia at around 00:27.
2B*2>5C>2C>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>5A(whiff)>dash under>2C>214B>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>beJ7.C
he misses the beJ7.C but im guessing that he was either going for the untechable knockdown or could have maybe gone for beJ7.C>2A>5B>623B (I need to test if this is possible). The 5B>be5B is fairly easy to perform on wara so I suggest practicing it in case you run into one (or just for fun ;))
be = "beat edge" or charge/hold button. I couldn't use [ B ]cus the script thinks its bold =/
hahaha thanks zar... cuse im writing this down.. and try to master this shit too.. for the shiki GODS!!!!
anyways.. so im just at point now.. that the only thing i can do with shiki as far as pressure is 3 things
a.on wakeup stagger a's
b.stagger a's and mixup with Iad attacks...
c. stagger a's with either a mix of unblockable C (aka Hold C) or 236 B (baiting them to move)
im so having trouble with pressure strings.. but however i did see that same vid with that combo, also had some nice 5c pressure games.. so maybe i have to reinvent a little
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that combo was pretty hot
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tested it out.. and i got it down.. yea pretty neat and all.. but honestly... just learn the whiff 2aa2c 5bb 5a(whiff) j.c dj j.b .jc... you do the same way with the 2bb 5c and just do the 5bb 5a(whiff) combos.. they do more (or the same) damage with less work... but maybe i missing an input or something but i got down for fucking three hours!!! and i wrote it on a post it note!!... but seriously though just stick to 5a whiff combos... those are fine...although if you want to be stylish... hm...
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uh, is anyone able to explain to me what I'm doing wrong?
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uh, is anyone able to explain to me what I'm doing wrong?
when you connect your first 2C into 214 C and then whiff the first b.. delay the second b(charged one) for a bit... it should connect to where you'll be able to land 2C into 214 b
oh btw i think it's a wara only combo.. cuse it dosen't work on Nero at all..
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Ok, so I have this 5a whiff combo that I'm trying to get down but I can't seem to get it to the point where I can start the air portion without the opponent recovering beforehand.
The combo is:
5C 2C 5B 5B 5A(whiff) jB jC jB jC Throw
Here's a quick vid of the completed combo with the cpu's air recovery turned off.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AdB_3KWh5nU
Here's me attempting to land a jA, jB, and jC after the 5A whiff with the cpu's air recovery turned on.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=c1Yo9kQLyds
Any help would be appreciated.
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Ok, so I have this 5a whiff combo that I'm trying to get down but I can't seem to get it to the point where I can start the air portion without the opponent recovering beforehand.
The combo is:
5C 2C 5B 5B 5A(whiff) jB jC jB jC Throw
Here's a quick vid of the completed combo with the cpu's air recovery turned off.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AdB_3KWh5nU
Here's me attempting to land a 5A, 5B, and 5C after the 5A whiff with the cpu's air recovery turned on.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=c1Yo9kQLyds
Any help would be appreciated.
Dog... you can't hit the jb in the first portion.... you just initiate the first jc, the jabc air throw.. so in essance the combo should go... 2aa, 5c, 2c, 5BB, 5a (whiff), Jc, Jabc air throw..there are other ways of doing that combo that's the standard i see myself do and other japs have done....
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Ah I see, thanks for the info it's much appreciated...
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Ah I see, thanks for the info it's much appreciated...
no problem... just make sure you make your jc instantaneous as possible... cuse dj sets you higher= finishing your combo....
if any problems come up just ask okay ;)
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I've started to play this char and im liking it as much as i enjoy playing Wara(ofc i do prefer Wara hehe :P) and there's alot of good info here, very nice rly ;) But i hav one question, how do u guys 'extend' the combo into the air? Im trying to do it, but i cant. Will apreciate any help =)
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The basic idea is to 'trip' your opponent, juggle him with a standing move, then jump and continue the assault in the air.
For Shiki, a very basic and probably commonly used combo would be 2A 2B 2C 5C (jump) jumping B jumping C (jump cancel) jB jC airthrow.
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Yeah, think i got that m8 ;) many thanks ;D
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yea simple bnb for shiki is 2aa,2c, 5c, jbc, djbc airthrow... that's a really simple bnb
the next step is doing 2aa,2c, 5bb,5a (whiff), jc, dj abc, airthrow
you can also add 5c in between the 2aa and 2c for some really nice damage...
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the next step is doing 2aa,2c, 5bb,5a (whiff), jc, dj abc, airthrow
Out of curiousity, did you think up that combo by yourself? Like, I never saw a japanese vid where someone uses this combo, nor the combo in the corner when you ex slide jump wait a bit, then j.c, dj bc airthrow.
And if you did make up those combos on your own (actually, even if you didn't), I think you're the only one I will allow to use it. If I see anyone else use it, I will demand they add "Combo trademarked by Nas".
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Those combos are most definitely pioneered by the Japanese.
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Just wondering, does anyone besides me use 236b into 214c 5a (whiff) SJ bcbc airthrow?
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Yeah I do it all the time, regardless if they're blocking or not (Okay, not all the time, but every once in a while I sometimes catch the people who think 236b is a high hit). Also, you can go into 623+C if your opponent unfortunately jumped.
What I'm wondering is if you can do 236a into 214c. I tried doing it a couple times unsuccessfully, but I also have terrible execution, so it could just be that.
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What I'm wondering is if you can do 236a into 214c. I tried doing it a couple times unsuccessfully, but I also have terrible execution, so it could just be that.
Yea it's possible.
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yea it's possible... but timing as strict as hell
and nam... you gotta watch some shiki vids... all those combos you seen me do...i learn from them (except for the 214C delay jc into jbc dj bc... i 've never seen em in vids.. but then again... i never seen 214C used that much...
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Yeah, I actually did watch some vids after I said that and realized that everyone does it, but I also realized that no one really sticks to one air combo for shiki. It probably is because they get more random hits than actual setups and they just have to make due with what they got. I've seen all combinations of a b c and jump cancel while in the air.
Though, why is that combo so special? I've only seen it do like maybe 100-200 more damage than the standard jbc djbc, and the room for error is ridiculously higher.
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Though, why is that combo so special? I've only seen it do like maybe 100-200 more damage than the standard jbc djbc, and the room for error is ridiculously higher.
I seriously like to think it's cause it makes you look pro... Other than that, if you can manage pull it off consistently you get better dmg w/o sacrificing the airthrow and more dmg is always good.
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it does tons more damage than the normal 2aa, 2c, 5c, jbc, bc throw combo... actually i think does 500-1k more... im sure of it... where as 5a whiff combos.... 5bb does prorate as badly as 5c
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I saw some guy in yukinose's site do 2aa, 2c, 5c, jb, jc, jb, jc, throw. Though the input after the 5c is somewhat tricky, you get more range as opposed to 2c, 5b.
Oh and any tips for the whiff combo? I don't get the jc in time before the opp recovers.
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I saw some guy in yukinose's site do 2aa, 2c, 5c, jb, jc, jb, jc, throw. Though the input after the 5c is somewhat tricky, you get more range as opposed to 2c, 5b.
I... don't understand how thats different from the standard bnb.
Oh and any tips for the whiff combo? I don't get the jc in time before the opp recovers.
Practice. Like, seriously, thats it. The whiff is actually easy to pull off, even though in the beginning you're just like, "I DON'T GET IT!!! THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! ERRRGH!" At least, thats what I was like when I was trying to learn it, but after like, really a couple days, of just randomly trying to do it in matches with my friend, it just came out.
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Oh and any tips for the whiff combo? I don't get the jc in time before the opp recovers.
Try delaying the 5bb till right before they hit the ground. Also be sure you only hit jc once, if you have a tendency to mash it a few times it won't hit.
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reason being jC is chargable, so if you mash it comes out slower :V
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It's been awhile, lol. Thanks for all the tips guys. I can pull off the whiff combo now, somewhat. I can land jC, djA, djB, but for some reason djC fails to connect. It's like the opponent is too high up in the air for the extendo leg to hit, so I just end up doing 2A, 2B, 5C, 2C, 5BB, 5A(whiff), jC, djA, djB, throw.
So any help getting the jC to connect?
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you have to cancel JC ASAP... well at least that's how i do it... when you cancel ASAP you dj higher so thus landing the JC into throw.... it's just lots practice and timing constraints... like as soon it connects dj ASAP into dj abc
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Thanks for the quick response. It took me some hours just to get the timing for the whiff combo for the jC to land. And even now I only have like a 60% success rate with it. But yeah, you have to speed up your reflexes cuz a fraction of a second can make the difference.
I managed to land the full combo ONCE. And yeah it seems that you have to cancel the 5BB right away and jC almost instantaneously to hit. Love the combo though... much much better than his standard BnB.
Another combo I'm trying to pull in the corner is jump-in C, land, 2A, 5B, 5C, 236 A, 214 C, 5A (whiff), jB, jC, dJAA, djB (throw).
Anyway thanks for all the help!
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why not just do jB jC -> djB djC which probalb does more dmg?
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^Haven't tested out the damage differences. I just assumed that djA, djB, djC did more damage since that's what I usually see in match vids. But if the jA prorates then maybe it is better off that way. But even still, I can't still manage to hit with the djC even if I start out with djB. Thanks though.
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^Haven't tested out the damage differences. I just assumed that djA, djB, djC did more damage since that's what I usually see in match vids. But if the jA prorates then maybe it is better off that way. But even still, I can't still manage to hit with the djC even if I start out with djB. Thanks though.
well you put djAA jB throw thus making djB djC better
if your gona do djA djB djC its better to sdjA sdjB sdjC
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Sorry for being a noob but sdj = super jump?
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super double jump
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why not just do jB jC -> djB djC which probalb does more dmg?
it's a bad habit from me... i watch T.I do that shit and it was pretty much how i did it... if djb djc does more damage then all means do that but i always thought they added that a for little bit more damage...
but i will test some shit for damage shit... there are other variations to do this as well (zar pointed this out) that could do tons
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I didn't know you could super jump from a jump. I'll try that out. Though I imagine the input from that you'd have to buffer it during jC?
I find myself connecting with (from jC) djB, djC, throw. Thanks for the tips!
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why not just do jB jC -> djB djC which probalb does more dmg?
it's a bad habit from me... i watch T.I do that shit and it was pretty much how i did it... if djb djc does more damage then all means do that but i always thought they added that a for little bit more damage...
but i will test some shit for damage shit... there are other variations to do this as well (zar pointed this out) that could do tons
well jBC -> sdjABC does more dmg overall, just jBC-> djBC is easier and since Dragon said his combo was djAA->djB throw, i just thought telling him jBC->djBC which is easier then just saying do jBC->sdjABC as a step closer to doing a more advance shiki combo.. from the combo he posted..
didnt want to overwhelm people with what is sdj!? and stuff yet.. though they probalby either know it already, i prefer giving info bit by bit so its easier to swollow for newer people.
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ah cool maybe im a little noobish as well...didn't know you could sj from a double jump either..
and im glad your connecting it easier my man good stuff..
if my post was little more over the top lemme know... im used to taking everything into whole so im used to that shit..
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I can pull off the combo pretty well now (not without a lot of phail at first lol). I found 2AA 2C 5BB 5A (whiff) jC dj ABC airthrow a lot easier when Shiki does not have a large distance from when he starts the 2C. I used to try and put a 5C in there but he ends up too far most of the time so the djA ends up whiffing.
Any tougher, flashier combos for Shiki that incorporate his 214C at the corner or any of this other specials?
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The only 214c corner combo I can think of that hasn't been mentioned in a while is the warakia corner combo.
:o
Yo Nas, peep this Angry-ass Shiki (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OR4yTzJU_8E) player. It looks like Shiki didnt want to go to school that morning and decides to take it out on warakia at around 00:27.
2B*2>5C>2C>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>5A(whiff)>dash under>2C>214B>214C>5B(whiff)>be5B>beJ7.C
Actually, one that I haven't seen mentioned at all is the midscreen 214c > 5b > jbc > jbc > airthrow
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I found a interesting tip about this Warachia's combo(probably it'll be wrong)
The 5B->B BBE, if it hits with the blade it'll be techable, but if it hits in cross up(the opponent lands at your back), and it hits with the arm, it'll be untechable.
At least I saw a Warachia knocking straight down instead of teching in the air(tested with 2C, 214C, 5B->B BBE)
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yea i gots to check that one out... the thing is with that though... it's wara only... dosen't work on chaos :(, unless there is some other way to do it...
man right now i just need to work on pressure really... im hitting my combos when i get them but trying to stay on people with shiki is kinda rough... for me anyways :(
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Pressure?
2B, 2C, 5C, 5A probably. I don't know if there's something better.
And spamming 5A/2A while getting near...
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Stagger 2a's into dash throw over and over and over. :V
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well i already figured the stagger 2A's but damn that's just retarded if that's all he has(which he dosen't but still seems like it ).... man he better have something else in AA
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Tohno doesn't really have AA though a decently timed j5a will probably beat out quite a few things and most likely lead to a counterhit. On the ground though, I guess 5b maybe?...
also, you're using his fuzzy guard right? (5b airdash 5b)
Beyond that all Tohno's pressure really comprises of is well timed staggers as nothing he has really moves him forward enough like Nanaya.
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actually now that you mention it... i really don't use that much.. so im gonna do that more...
a well time 5b works but it's a timing issue.. since 5b moves ya foward... but i did manage to get that a couple times...
i mean you could also get risky and be like shield 2a... but meh who knows...
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Questions about Tohno's 2A 2A 5C 2C 5BB 5A (whiff) j.cb jc.bc airthrow:
Is there any disadvantage using a 2A to whiff instead of the commonly used 5A?
Because i somehow find it easier to connect to the j.cb with that.
Secondly, when i watch Japanese Players i often see them doing
2A 2A 5C 2C 5A (whiff) j.c jc.abc airthrow instead, any reason? IIRC j.cb jc.bc does more dmg,
though i could be wrong, correct me there please.
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I'm not sure if anythings drastically changed in the last few months since I dropped Tohno but I don't really see a "major" problem with whiffing 2a besides the fact that your creating an unnecessary hassle for yourself. As you're already in neutral anyways from the 5bb, whiffing the 5a supposedly makes the timing/jump easier. I have to ask though, I don't see why it wouldn't be frame wise but is that combo valid?
Also, your listing of the air combos is off as it's impossible to j-cb then dj-cbc without it being an invalid combo (or in general, who knows I'm to lazy to test it).
In general here is what IIRC is possible from the whiff cancel combo:
j-c dj-bc (for those to lazy or apprehensive to go for the b in the first jump)
j-ca dj-bc (this is what you can use if you think you miss-timed the delay on the launch)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTi33Ze6H3M
j-cb dj-bc (the most commonly used combo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asBkK2UC26c
and IIRC there is a j-cab(or ba) dj-abc(cba?) (something like that, but it's hard to do and not actually worth the minuscule amount of extra dmg you get from it)
Generally once you get in the air you are stuck at (I believe) 40% 55% proration so no matter what you throw out (within reason) you won't prorate any further, so if you can throw a j-cab dj-abc (or whatever it is) and land it, might as well go for it.
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Questions about Tohno's 2A 2A 5C 2C 5BB 5A (whiff) j.cb jc.bc airthrow:
Is there any disadvantage using a 2A to whiff instead of the commonly used 5A?
Two reasons come to mind:
1. It's impossible to do 2aa5c2c5bb2a
2. 5a has a smaller hitbox than 2a.
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Also, your listing of the air combos is off as it's impossible to j-cb then dj-cbc without it being an invalid combo (or in general, who knows I'm to lazy to test it).
You're right about that, i meant jc = jumpcancel = dj though, so j.cb dj. j.bc -> airthrow
Two reasons come to mind:
1. It's impossible to do 2aa5c2c5bb2a
2. 5a has a smaller hitbox than 2a.
1.It's not actually, try it out
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Wow, then either his a's or his 5bb cheats somehow.
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can tohno see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?
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You're right about that, i meant jc = jumpcancel = dj though, so j.cb dj. j.bc -> airthrow
OK, then in terms of j-c dj.abc (or more likely j-ca dj-bc) being used, the only reason I could see it being preferred over j-cb dj-bc is if they do not yet have the timing down or they feel more comfortable doing it this way as cb bc does the most dmg.
Also to correct myself, you are stuck at 55% proration after the launcher unless you decide to do something stupid like j-ca dj-ca etc in which case you drop to 45% or lower from the third reverse beat.
Wow, then either his a's or his 5bb cheats somehow.
Yea I can't figure it out either, but it works somehow. Still feels like a hassle to do though.
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Another question:
Let's say hypothetically I'm using blockstring in corner: like 2A 2A 5B 5C 2C -> 2C hits, what should i continue with? 214s seem stupid because enemy could just tech out of corner, so i was either tending to OTG or some 236B or dunno, any advice? Pure theory on my side anyway, couldn't test it out yet
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A knockdown in the corner would either lead into an OTG or an okizeme when they start getting up but I'm not sure what the OTG string though so I do the oki more. For oki I would do either IAD j.b/c (can lead to overhead if hit or if whiffed then it can be chained to 2a for blockstring or hitting low), j.c airdash j.b/c, or sj. dj. to bait stuff (if none are seen then you could j.b/c or airdash j.b/c).
Another question:
Let's say hypothetically I'm using blockstring in corner: like 2A 2A 5B 5C 2C -> 2C hits, what should i continue with?
I hope you did 5a whiff for that too...
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Another question:
Let's say hypothetically I'm using blockstring in corner: like 2A 2A 5B 5C 2C -> 2C hits, what should i continue with? 214s seem stupid because enemy could just tech out of corner, so i was either tending to OTG or some 236B or dunno, any advice? Pure theory on my side anyway, couldn't test it out yet
2c -> 236a -> 623c
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Personally if I see that 2c hit I go straight into a whiff cancel combo omitting the 5c (Don't use 5b in your blockstrings for this reason, plus it sucks, he's not Nanaya ya know) or I cancel into 214c jbc djbc airthrow if I'm to far out of range for my 5b to hit. The 5c is wasted on a 5a whiff otg (especially in the corner). In my opinion an otg off of a 5c should only be used if you miss the timing of the whiff cancel combo or the 214c.
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if ur doing that block string.. and it pushes them that far and ur 2C hits, instead of doing whiff, why not jsut do 236A like lina suggested, cause i woudl think..
1) if 2C hits, connects to 236A and can excancel to 623C for more dmg and knockdown
2) if 2C is blocked and you do 236A, they will have to block 236A, and i would think ur still at a ok distance? (and if they try to punish it after it is blocked you can ex cancel to 214C to counter?
3) if 2C is blocked but 236A hits, you can ex cancel to 214C or 236C for more dmg
so instead of just whiff 5a, unless you dont have 100 percent meter... then 5a whiff.. or soemthing but yea ;v...
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yea i gots to check that one out... the thing is with that though... it's wara only... dosen't work on chaos :(, unless there is some other way to do it...
No, it's not Warachia only. It works on Kouma too /o/
I couldn't make it work on Nero though u.u
And don't even bother with the rest of the cast: I think it works only on heavy chars.
The tip: start the B BEE as late as you can, so the untechable time'll be bigger(now I'm doing it almost automatically /o/)
One day I'll do the full combo XDD
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Just an observation guys. For Shiki's air counter-hit follow up air combo, 2B 5B start up does more damage than 2C 5C, though the later is easier to connect with the increased range and larger hitboxes of the C's.
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Just an observation guys. For Shiki's air counter-hit follow up air combo, 2B 5B start up does more damage than 2C 5C, though the later is easier to connect with the increased range and larger hitboxes of the C's.
Funny i'm so used to using 2C's on reaction to pick up counters.
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i know that post was along time ago.. but after air counter... to kinda avoid proration... you could do 5C does tons of damage even after a j.A
i only use 2C if they too low hit em with a 5C... 5C hitbox stays out for awhile so you can hit peeps who kinda far...
also i believe you can do the whiff a combos off of 2C 5BB.. obvious depends on how low to the ground they are... but it works...