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Author Topic: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups  (Read 5401 times)

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Offline kasuya

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Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« on: March 11, 2008, 11:59:59 AM »
Hey guys, look through the other threads and realized that there isn't much regarding Nanaya's whiff cancel strings/mixups..
Though I might create a tread for people to collate their thoughts/ideas/suggestions/flames etc into one thread for easier reference :x

Nanaya's 5a has a 4f startup, which is faster than others' 5a.
While most people like to use whiff canceling defensively (to prevent punishment)
I feel that Nanaya allows you to be creative in your whiff canceling chains, thrown in with stagger guards for counterhit baiting, tick throws or IADs for hi/lo mixups.

2a2b2c5c 5a(whiff):
Staggering the 2c and 5c will bring you closer to the opponent, if your opponent blocks the whole chain consistently, you can miss the 5c into 5a whiff, and tick throw him there and then. Either that or whiff cancel immediately on 2c block and IAD into whatever you like.

5c2b 5a whiff 2a (etcetc):
I use this to bait counterhits sometimes, which will allow you a free combo. On block, just reset the whiff cancel chain again.

Basically just try to whiff your c attacks for maximum blockstun on your opponent :p

What some people like to do to counter whiff canceling:

-Jump: Can be easily punished by 5a (or 5b if you are close enough, clash frames help sometimes) guardbreaks, air throws, or end your chain with a 236a to catch them as they are jumping

-Shield: Stagger your attacks to make timing less predictable (and hence make shielding seem less desirable). If he misses a shield, punish him fully for mind games! Tick throws work here as well.

-Heat: Nothing much you can do, but bait it if you can. (Not sure if Nanaya has safe attacks that can clash with heat)

-Backdash: Usually this would reset the state of pressure to neutral, but if an opponent gets predictable with backdashes, you can dash 2c to punish that shit. Note that he can't do this in the corner.

-Block: Feel free to keep chaining your whiff cancels, or throw him


On ground throw, you have several options for wakeup:
-Meaty: Usually 2a for low guard or 5c jump outs, if you are confident, 5[ c ] as overhead (launches on hit, knocks down on counterhit)

-Super jump mixup: Superjump backdash for overhead, or superjump 22 (downdash) in front or behind the waking opponent

Nanaya BnBs:

Basic BnBs:
2a2b2c 5c j.bc j.bc throw
The most standard BnB, easy to input, but low damage.

2a2b2c 5c5b j.bc j.bc throw
As stated in other threads, this nets more dmg, but is harder to input. In general, you try to delay(short one of about .1s?) 5c after the 2c. Too long a delay and it ends up as an OTG.

Other BnBs:
Nanaya has a fast (and long range) 2b that you can abuse the shit out of, sometimes this is better than 2a for punishing.

For more damage, use the following chain (you need to be semi close to the opponent for 2c to hit)
(2a)2b5c 2c5b j.bc j.bc throw
This nets ~800-1000 more damage than the basic BnB (open with 2b) and about ~400 more damage if you start with 2a.
Landing a j.C overhead into the combo above starting with 2b can mean a devastating 4.5k-5k+ damage. (you need to input the 2b AFTER you have landed or you will get a reverse beat penalty)

623c BnB(corner): //Flashy stuff :p
(groundstring into launcher) cancel into 623C 2a5b (just before the opponent hits the ground) j.bc j.bc throw
Note that if you have the meter for it, you can keep looping this combo infinitely, ie [2a5b 623c]x as much as your meter can afford..
Or if you aren't in the corner, you can do a 2a236a(air hits) cancel into 623c (as seen in TaMa's vid in the other thread)



Thats all for now :p will try to add more as I find more.. please feel free to give comments, suggestions or correct me where I'm wrong! Thanks

EDIT: added some BnBs
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 03:13:50 AM by kasuya »

Offline c-nero 5[c]

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 06:21:15 PM »
Really I feel that you can't tell people how to pressure with Nanaya, it's not the sort of thing you can learn by simply reading things. It took me over a year simply to understand the core concepts of it and how badly I'd been playing up until that point. One problem I have trouble with and I see a lot of Nanaya players have trouble with is that they can't break off the pressure when they need to. There are times when you've pushed yourself too far out either by throwing out a lot of hitconfirming frametraps or simply by accident and you need to learn that the situation has been reset. Far to often I'm too late to stop myself blindly dashing in from too far back and eating 2A rain.

another good post-throw setup that I'm experimenting with is the backwards jump followed by forward airdash. By varying the airdash timing and whether you use j.B or j.C you can set up either a jumping crossup or ground crossup, effectively giving you a 3-way (lol) mixup. I'm currently experimenting with it to see if I can reliably punish people dashing to escape it. It's also dodge-proof and if you vary the crossup enough you won't ever get shielded, making it a fair bit safer than sj into backdash or j.22 mixup.
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Offline jiyuna

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 10:03:48 PM »
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

just get drunk and press buttons, you'll eventually get a feel of what works after a while.
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Offline Dipstick

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 12:37:55 AM »
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

just get drunk and press buttons, you'll eventually get a feel of what works after a while.

I really want to delete this post (because it sucks), but there is a bit of truth of it. More than a bit of truth to it, actually. The silly thing is that Nanaya has so many options for blockstrings it's borderline absurd, and the best way to get a feel for them is to just play the game and experiment -- what flows into what, what sequences are natural tight and loose staggers, clean and dirty whiff chain strings, etc..

Not saying that discussing options is a bad thing, but you would have to write a novella to cover everything.
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Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 05:14:26 PM »
Where are the mixups?
I'm still sorta new to this game.

Nanaya isn't my main, but I want to be able to use him well so I can teach my friend how to use him. :D
His 214B is one and uhh..

After one of the whiff cancel combos, I think these could be some mixup options?

Whiffcancel - IAD Dash - jC (whiff) - throw/low attack (continue blockstring indefinitely)
Whiff cancel - IAD Dash - jB (if hit confirm, do BnB) - double jump - jB - dashforward- jC

OMGOMGOGM, Nanaya has a fast fall!
He could be my new main!




Hey but, does he have any crossups? I need help with them, especially with my Kohaku, I don't get how to do crossups with my Kohaku or Hisui either! D:

Offline Alfonse

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 05:50:13 PM »
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/index.php?topic=1286.0

Mixups briefly explained, along with whiffed attacks and wakeup if you need them.
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Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2008, 06:22:19 PM »
I swear you misread it just because I'm new here. :P
Thanks anyway.

I meant "Where are the mixups in that guide"
and "I'm kinda new, but I'll try to contribute anyway."

And I was asking on whether Nanaya or Kohaku had any crossups.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 06:35:30 PM by CT_Warrior »

Offline Pfhor

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2008, 08:41:47 PM »
This
Where are the mixups?
I'm still sorta new to this game.

Nanaya isn't my main, but I want to be able to use him well so I can teach my friend how to use him. :D
His 214B is one and uhh..

After one of the whiff cancel combos, I think these could be some mixup options?

Whiffcancel - IAD Dash - jC (whiff) - throw/low attack (continue blockstring indefinitely)
Whiff cancel - IAD Dash - jB (if hit confirm, do BnB) - double jump - jB - dashforward- jC

OMGOMGOGM, Nanaya has a fast fall!
He could be my new main!




Hey but, does he have any crossups? I need help with them, especially with my Kohaku, I don't get how to do crossups with my Kohaku or Hisui either! D:

Do you mean crossup moves? Neither nanaya nor kohaku have decent crossup moves. Kohaku's j.c might crossup once in a while but it's too situational to be reliable.

The first string you listed is ok, but Nanaya's ground dash is far superior to his IAD so use it sparingly. The second string you listed is impossible, there is no way that j.c will combo after any kind of air dash unless you get a counterhit. Also you started out with an airdash so there cannot be another airdash.

Nanaya's mixup are not really high and low, he has some bad overheads, an ok iad for pressure, but his mixups are mostly poke or throw. You can do almost anything> 5a whiff > dash and either restart the blockstring or throw. His throw is pretty bad in that it takes them out of the corner but you get a j.22 mixup afterwards.

Offline c-nero 5[c]

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 01:49:33 AM »
Nanaya actually has an average crossup setup off his throw, jump backwards and then airdash forwards (not IAD), if you get the timing down it can be hard for the opponent to spot whether your jumping attack will hit them or whiff (if it whiffs you get a crossup). In terms of Nanaya it's a pretty strong crossup, however compared to most in melty it's not that great at all.
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<Sabator> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
<Sabator> BBCS RED RINGED MINE
<Sabator> FUCKING ANIME GAMES MAN

Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: Nanaya's whiff cancel strings and mixups
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 07:09:15 PM »
Thanks you two, still can't believe how horribly my mind screwed up when I was writing the second one. :P
Hmm, I guess now all I have to do is gain experience, and maybe some blockstrings and advanced BnBs later.. ^^