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Author Topic: Satsuki help  (Read 12611 times)

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Offline YuenSan

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Satsuki help
« on: June 27, 2008, 10:19:13 PM »
I particularly rarely use her, so I decided to start precticing her her. Need help and tips on hows the best way to use her plz. Aiming the grabs etc.
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Offline Ultima66

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 04:44:24 AM »
You should learn the loops and how to cut them off/go into mixups. Also you don't really aim her throws. They aren't that good for counters and her ground throws for the most part aren't good. Rather than using her 236A/B/C you should usually just stick to attacking or 641236C or her normal throw. There are times when you want to use 236B because despite the fact it's so slow it can throw off people, but other than that, her 236C is really not good, since it doesn't have good range and is actually blockable.

Her BnB is the most important part, though, and especially since it's so different from other character's BnBs and you have to know which characters you can actually connect a OTG 5B onto and which ones you can't. It also directly leads into an amazing mixup and the moves in the BnB itself are powerful already, like the lead-in 2C. Unlike some characters, you can't really screw up the BnB by having the first few hits blocked and accidentally hitting the wrong attacks since 2C 5C if you led in with 2B is to my knowledge safe, and inputting 623C right after in my experience won't actually cause you to do the 623C and leave yourself open.

Offline noradseven

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 05:34:53 AM »
I didn't really understand that stuff Ultima put at the end, but he is right don't really try to spam her 236A/B/C grab like she is kouma or something, just learn her BnB which normally falls along the lines of    2A(A),5B,(2B),2C,5C,623B,5B,623C,2C,5C,214A,j.grab   , there are proably more damaging varients but this one is easy and works on most chars, for some chars the 5B OTG will not connect some other threads have what you are supposed to do.

After you know that its mostly learning mixups and block strings with sacchin because that is her staple combo, she does have a few other combos that are worth it but the timing on them is much more difficult.

j.B comes out really fast and can be used as a good anti air
j.C adds tons of damage and has good priotry even if it does take a little longer to start up than j.B.

*most of the time if you connect a hold 2C, you can do another 2C right after it to buffer up your damage while this isn't going to occur all the time it does occur occasionally and that extra 2C does some good dmg.

Offline YuenSan

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 07:03:05 AM »
ic..hopes these will work.
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Offline Tempered

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 03:46:45 PM »
5/2A,(A),(2B),5B,2C,5C,623B,5B(or 2c depending on characters),623C,2C,5C,214A,j.grab 

Fixed a bit. try to use 2b as little as possible. it doesnt add that much damage for the possibility to push opponents to far back to connect with 5c. Also dont dash with her. her dash is very bad. one last tip. slightly delay the 5c after 623c 2c. it makes connecting 214a into j.grab alot easier.
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Offline Ultima66

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2008, 03:53:20 PM »
I didn't really understand that stuff Ultima put at the end, but he is right don't really try to spam her 236A/B/C grab like she is kouma or something, just learn her BnB which normally falls along the lines of    2A(A),5B,(2B),2C,5C,623B,5B,623C,2C,5C,214A,j.grab   , there are proably more damaging varients but this one is easy and works on most chars, for some chars the 5B OTG will not connect some other threads have what you are supposed to do.
What I meant was if you play other characters you'll know how bad trying to finish a BnB when they block can be. Kouma's 6C leaves you pretty open, Aoko's 123 leaves you open for baras, Sion's 3B leaves you completely open, and so on. With Satsuki if you don't accidentally 623C you're not leaving yourself open.

Oh yeah as was said don't dash with her. I DO dash with her on occasion but there are reasons for it. There is one combo with her j.[C] into 5[C] that you HAVE to ground dash to connect, and I do it when they're close enough that they're just at the tip of the ground dash and go into 641236C since it DOES cancel from ground dash and it's a fast throw that does about 2500 damage and heals you like 1000 too.

Offline YuenSan

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 03:58:04 PM »
Yeah I notice that her dash isn't really the best kinda like Miyako's.

EDIT: BTW, is the EX skill, 632146C useful at all?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 10:18:15 PM by YuenSan »
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Offline noradseven

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 10:23:11 PM »
Yeah I notice that her dash isn't really the best kinda like Miyako's.

EDIT: BTW, is the EX skill, 632146C useful at all?

its the only move you can cancel her dash with and it comes out fast and makes for a decent reversal.

EDIT: I would mess around with her 236A/C and 623A/C grabs she can do some pretty hilarious stuff with chars that mess up their hit boxes while attacking, some examples are warachia cape, chaos's wolf, Sion's whip lol all three can be 236C grabbed into BnB for fun, its so funny watching your oppenent be teleported like 1/2 across the screen into your hand.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 10:31:42 PM by noradseven »

Offline Ultima66

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 01:33:48 AM »
623A isn't good for AA because there's no way to combo out of it. 236A I'd avoid for the same reason.

As for 623C/236C, those can be comboed out of for a lot of damage if you use them as AA/reversal. 623C is really good AA (not that Satsuki has any shortage of AA) but 236C is risky because if it's blocked it leaves you at a disadvantage and it's not actually that fast to start up. If you know they can't block it, it'll do a lot of damage, but it's one of those things you don't use too much, like her j.[C].

Offline noradseven

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2008, 08:28:17 AM »
yeah I only mentioned the A version cause its good for first learning how stuff works, and as for starting with 236C is tottally great but you have to bait it first, normallly it works best on ppl who don't know that they can be punished aka the weird hit boxes(example chaos's wolf), and while you can't combo out of 623A you can IAD and grab them if they tech or smack them over the head if they don't.


Offline SacchinWantPie

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2008, 11:52:50 PM »
if im not mistaken you can also cancel her ground dash into 623C. not often useful but occasionally.  also if you time it perfectly her 5b will come out remarkably fast after a ground dash. almost like your canceling it. hard to do/use though.

and yeah, don't ground dash.

Offline BurstOfAnger

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2008, 01:14:06 AM »
About BnBs, is this okay:

2A5B2C5C623B5C623C2C5C214A j.th

One thing I noticed is that 2C is very unreliable as the OTG after 623B. The only characters I know it connects with are Miyako and Kouma(I haven't experimented much). As far as my knowledge goes (which is not very far) 5B is the most reliable but 5C does more damage.

Btw, 2A5B2C5C.... does more damage than 2A2B2C5C...

And 623C is a fun anti-air as it's got crazy range and can be cancelled into a hellotta damage.

And thanks to Tempered for the advice on adding 214A in. I always omitted it as I couldn't get it right.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 11:57:35 PM by BurstOfAnger »
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Offline Twinniss

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2008, 05:41:09 PM »
read through all the topics that tell you what fun you can do with sacchin(srs, mods, just sticky choco's thread on the win of sacchin)

remember: SHE IS A BEAST

BurstOfAnger: do what you want for otg after the 623b. just make sure your execution with it is 99.9%(cause we all know theres always that tiny bit of chance you'd fuck up). hell the japs don't even add 214a after the 623c>2c5c(americans do hah hah :D), cause they'd rather get the knockdown and 4 way mixups at 100%, then to screw up and say got the airthrow way to high, and 4 way mixup doesn't work that time

i normally wouldn't use 623 except for the a version because i feel its just far too unsafe if whiffed, i use it only when i know i can get them, and usually they don't expect it/they fly around too much. Also i prefer 4k damage rather than reduced damage

632146 is amazing, you just gotta know when to use it. lrn and luv it and make your opponent understand you have another option and fear that option(well make sure they don't know it at first, in most cases they don't).

as for the bnb thing, that why people don't try to finish their bnb as a blockstring, they simply use something more safe, and aoko's 123 isn't the easiest to bara. i rarely see a decent sion player EVER use 3b in their blockstring
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 05:47:29 PM by Twinniss »
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[20:13] <@bellreisa> with practice mode you can turn 10% into 100%

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=232643&p=8761841&viewfull=1#post8761841 "For Instance, Cammy's strong kick(crouch) is two frames, because it takes almost 2 seconds to do"

Offline noradseven

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2008, 07:44:32 PM »
odds are you will learn this BnB very very fast cause its pretty easy the rest you have to learn about sacchin is described in the other threads, its mostly mixups, and movement patterns to make your oppenents mess up there is also and alternative BnB thats far harder and I have been trying to get it down, I don't think its been mentioned that much maybe because its not as good for some reason that I am unawares of.

midscreen
2A,5B,2C,5C,214A,22C(4hits),sj.5[C],2[C],2C,5C,623B,2C,5C,(623C now for reset if you can finish or just let it drop and mix them up sometimes if a 623C followed up by combo will not finish you can be an jerk and tech punish with 641236C for lolz).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 07:47:39 PM by noradseven »

Offline Twinniss

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2008, 05:05:04 PM »
like i said, if you could execute it like 99% go for it

however doing that is somewhat risky as

a.) you gotta do the 214a at a certain time(this is literally like 1 frame frc, cause when you land the 22c it should have to hit them before they can tech out) which goes into
b.) hope that 22c with its last hit lands as well(for the wall slam)
c.) different characters have different timing on this whole combo
d.) if you mess up, you lose your 4 way mixup oki (sacchins strongest point), and won't get as much damage if you were to do it the old fashion way(since we're talking about midscreen)

obv. once you figure out the first 2, then you can pretty much do the infinite as well
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 05:07:22 PM by Twinniss »
Words of a wise man
[20:13] <@bellreisa> with practice mode you can turn 10% into 100%

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=232643&p=8761841&viewfull=1#post8761841 "For Instance, Cammy's strong kick(crouch) is two frames, because it takes almost 2 seconds to do"

Offline noradseven

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2008, 05:30:25 PM »
like i said, if you could execute it like 99% go for it

however doing that is somewhat risky as

a.) you gotta do the 214a at a certain time(this is literally like 1 frame frc, cause when you land the 22c it should have to hit them before they can tech out) which goes into
b.) hope that 22c with its last hit lands as well(for the wall slam)
c.) different characters have different timing on this whole combo
d.) if you mess up, you lose your 4 way mixup oki (sacchins strongest point), and won't get as much damage if you were to do it the old fashion way(since we're talking about midscreen)

obv. once you figure out the first 2, then you can pretty much do the infinite as well

while problem C is true this combo isn't as char specific as you think just gotta delay that 214A till the last second and activate your 22C right before you get below them, or at least thats how I think of it but yeah thats hard stuff, note the im trying to get it down over 90% of the time so I haven't tried it on netplay yet.

Offline YuenSan

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2008, 07:38:51 PM »
I'm scared to go back on netplay, gamepad-response is against me in there. I always play veterans on accident, they toss me like a ragdoll..."isn't it sad?" T_T
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Offline Abstract Nonsense

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2008, 01:08:00 AM »
I'm scared to go back on netplay, gamepad-response is against me in there. I always play veterans on accident, they toss me like a ragdoll..."isn't it sad?" T_T

That's what happened to me at first. Play the veterans and think of it as an opportunity. Keep on practicing.

Also, can someone give some blockstrings that aren't bnb->214a IAD jC or throw or ex-bite or reset?


Quote
hance you'd fuck up). hell the japs don't even add 214a after the 623c>2c5c

You're kidding me right? What's so tough about delaying 5c? I'm not sure I believe you.
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Offline noradseven

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2008, 08:05:16 AM »
I'm scared to go back on netplay, gamepad-response is against me in there. I always play veterans on accident, they toss me like a ragdoll..."isn't it sad?" T_T

That's what happened to me at first. Play the veterans and think of it as an opportunity. Keep on practicing.

Also, can someone give some blockstrings that aren't bnb->214a IAD jC or throw or ex-bite or reset?

hmm I usually do 5B,5C,2C, IAD jB or othere stuff, But I really don't know many blockstrings with sacchin once the oppenent is already standing.

Offline Sprint

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2008, 08:11:55 AM »
You're doing the 22C juggle wrong. It's 2C (delay) 5C 214A (delay) 22C. 214A is the only move that isn't delayed.
I'd hardly call it a BnB due to its crap damage. It should only ever be used to generate circuit after Max. Using it at any other time is a waste of an EX.

Character specific version from a corner 2C:
- 2C 5B 2A (delay) 22C {5[C]} j[C] 5[C] 2[C] 2C 5C -> Finisher
- Works against Ciel, Arc, Kouma, Akiha
- Wara: 2C5B5C22C...
- Nero: Last part doesn't connect so use 22C 2[C]5C instead. Crap damage in this case.
This does more damage than any other combo for 100% circuit from a corner 2C. It's situational, but I'm far more inclined to call it a BnB than the above.


Quote from: Twinniss
hell the japs don't even add 214a after the 623c>2c5c
Wrong. After jumpcancelling a blocked 214A, it cannot be jumpcancelled again (even on hit) until after the end of the next combo.
214A Airthrow is superior to IAD Airthrow in every way. It can connect from further away, and lower down. Whenever you see a player using 2C 5C IAD Airthrow it is because either:
- 214A could not have been jumpcancelled if they'd used it. This happens a lot against people who know how to block. Something the west has a shortage of.
- They couldn't remember if they'd previously jumpcancelled a blocked 214A, so didn't use it to be safe.
- They still play old versions of the game.
- They're stupid.

Quote from: noradseven
j.C adds tons of damage and has good priotry even if it does take a little longer to start up than j.B.
Startup is identical as long as you tap C very quickly. The move is delayed for every frame that you hold the button.

Also:
- 236C is useless. Never use it except immediately after {j.C}2B5B5C (which sets up a 6-7k 200% circuit combo).
- EX Bite motion is 6216C. The command list lies.

As for blockstrings, meh. A good blockstring needs:
1. Staggers
2. Safe on block sequences that give you the option to either stop or continue (2B, 2C5A, 5C5A, 214A jumpcancel, etc.)
3. Sequences that allow you to go into a combo on reaction to a hit (2C5B, 2C5C, 214A214C, 2C(1)5A5B, etc.)

Don't learn blockstrings. Learn how to make them up on a whim.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 12:41:39 PM by Sprint »
Blah.

Offline Choco

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2008, 09:22:04 AM »
*ahem* GET BACK TO THE BASICS, GUYS

Offline noradseven

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2008, 08:24:05 PM »
*ahem* GET BACK TO THE BASICS, GUYS

-Use 2C, whenever your opponent does something stupid and is too far away for 2A, great reach good priorty.
-get good at IAD and fast

Offline Abstract Nonsense

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Re: Satsuki help
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2008, 12:48:52 PM »
*ahem* GET BACK TO THE BASICS, GUYS

-Use 2C, whenever your opponent does something stupid and is too far away for 2A, great reach good priorty.
-get good at IAD and fast

Learn the 4-way mixups ASAP. There are two you need to know. I only know the one off of airthrow though because I like the extra damage and the fact that I don't need meter to use it.

After airthrow, take 1-2 steps forward, then super-jump. Once you're over their head, you have several options.

1) Land 2c into bnb
2) air backdash jC into bnb
3) air backdash jC whiff 2c into bnb
4) Land ex-bite or throw
5) Land 2a/5a*
6) air backdash jC {5b} 22c sj j[C]5[C]2[C]5b214a 4(A+D)**

...And that's plenty for now.
*Only use this if you suspect that your opponent will roll, another option if you think they'll roll is airbackdash jC but instead of following up with BnB follow up with 5a/2a.

**MIDscreen only.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 12:51:02 PM by Abstract Nonsense »
[01:46] <@BNAK_OF_AFRIKA> would u get a foot job from mech hisui
[01:46] <MrTopHat> Depends, can the feet do anything
[01:46] <Coren> they have motor skates
[01:46] <MrTopHat> : |  [20:39] <Pfhor> I am going to murder all of you