Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Act Cadenza => Satsuki Yumizuka (Yumiduka) => : Choco March 01, 2007, 06:54:42 AM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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A LOT OF THIS INFORMATION IS OUT OF DATE IN MY OPINION. KEEP THIS IN MIND WHILE READING THE THREAD. I'LL UPDATE IT ENTIRELY ONE OF THESE DAYS. :: 06-08-2008
Why the hell would anyone play Satsuki? I mean, come on. We all know her ground dash sucks. She can only do one attack in the air and can't double jump or airdash afterwards. She only has a moderate amount of clash frames, and the only way to win with her is to use all your meter.
She's a BEAST!
Satsuki is a lovely beast. She has her limitations, but perfecting other aspects of your game will turn her into a very powerful character. Let's start off with some beastly BNB.
{xxx} = OPTIONAL MOVE(S) IN COMBO STRING.
#x/#x = Either/Or. One or the other. 5c OR 5b. Got it?
5b 623c after the first groundslam is character specific. Doesn't work against LEN, MIYAKO or CIEL. Replace 5b with 214a for LEN, 2c (2-hit) for MIYAKO and 5c for CIEL.
Average ground string: {2a{a}} -> 2c 5b{or 5c} 623b -> groundslam -> 5b 623c -> groundbounce -> 2c 5c {OPTIONAL: 214a} j.c 4/6A+D
Circuitless-version: {2a{a}} {5b} 2c 5c/5b {214a} j.c 4/6A+D.
This is the general best all around attack string for her. All 2c attacks should hit for two hits.
Deep j.C or j.B Circuit combo: 2b5b5c 214c -> wallslam to corner -> {2c [character specific]} 5c 214a JC to airthrow.
Against a full Shiki Tohno, this does near 5000 damage if you add in a j.C starter. The 2c after wallslam does NOT work very well on some characters. For safety, I recommend using the 2c sparingly unless you know you can hit people with it. If it comes out too late, Sacchin has to recover with no whiff cancel, letting the enemy tech and punish you with meaties into full combo. Also, using 2c in this situation might knock your foe too high, not allowing an airthrow after the 5c 214a. Thus, I recommend just using 5c 214a -> JC to Airthrow.
LONG-ASS DEMORALIZING WALL COMBO w/ OTG: IAD j.C {2a}5b2c5c 623b -> groundslam -> 5b2c5c 623c -> groundbounce -> 2c5c 623b -> groundslam -> 5b2b2c5c214a -> Jumpcancel to IAD forward or back.
If you land a j.C in the corner, this will do an excellent amount of damage, last for 22 hits, kill a lot of time, and end in a 214a jumpcancel that allows you to punish any teching option with a j.C/j.B that will reset the corner combo from the absolute beginning. No tech leaves you with okizeme to work with.
Sacchin's Bouncy Fun combo: j.[C] 5[C] j.[C] -> ground dash -> 5b 623b -> 5b 623c -> groundbounce -> 2c5c 214a JC 4/6A+D
This combo never gets old. NEVER. And the first hit pretty much guarantees a 40-50% damage combo. The big trouble is getting that first hit to... hit. It can be shielded and punished very easily, so if you decide to use them, make its use very unexpected and inconspicuous.
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Air combos? Lulz. No air combos. Grab from the ground using 623a/c, (super)jump into airthrow, or j.A/j.B air counterhit.
Wakeup Defense
Satsuki doesn't really have the invulnerable wakeup attacks that characters like Sion, Nanaya, etc. have. This leaves her with two options, not including block, 2a spam and wakeup throw.
Backdash. A few frames before wakeup, queue up the first 4, and around the full wakeup frame itself press 4 again for the backdash. There's a catch here. Keep holding 4 and you'll backdash on the wakeup frame. The invincibility frames here can save you if you're in midfield, and should only be uses sparingly against people who don't mash 2a in the corner.
22b/c. Due to the early clash frames on this attack, it makes it a very decent wakeup option. Just don't use it so much that it becomes predictable. Great against jump-in wakeup options, bad against other attacks that also have early clash frames. To properly use this attack, you will need to queue it up. The best way to do this is about 12 frames before your wakeup, you queue up the 22 part. When you press b, it will have to be on the wakeup frame or a few frames after depending on your timing. To help your defense, you will need to press 4, 1, 6 or 3 (the appropriate block direction) just before doing the move so that if you screw up the frame timing of the 22b, there will be less of a change of being punched in the face. AFTER THE FIRST HIT OF 22B, YOU HAVE A FEW OPTIONS. 1) Let it complete and possible get a hit/knockdown on opponent, or get smacked in the face due to the opponent using their clash frames a little too well themselves. 2) Cancel first hit into 22c. If attacker is on the ground, this will wallslam them. Superjump and j.[C] to continue the combo. You can do another j.[C] after that, or IAD to airthrow. Corner loops will work in the corner. 3) (untested) Cancel first hit into 214c. Invincibility frames will save you and blast your opponent in the face for a wallslam which you can combo off of depending on where you are on the screen. Best if the opponent is on the ground.
Randomness
Want to punish someone who you know you can't reach for a combo? Do they whiff cancel out really far so you can't counterattack? Getting stuck on the recovery frames of a 1-hit 2c?
CANCEL IT! On a 1-hit 2c, jumpcancel into IAD and go for a j.B/j.C. Most people will be blocking low because it feels natural.
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Satsuki's Arc Drive is pretty beastly, if timed correctly. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure how punishable it is, seeing as she falls over at the end, but I'm thinking it's probably just a regular knockdown after the invincibilty. It's unblockable and does massive damage, even on the non-bloodheat version. It makes a pretty sweet reversal, especially if your opponent wasn't watching to see if you're in max :D
Satsuki's 214a is jump cancelable on block, so you can keep preassurig out of that at the end of of your block strings, you just don't want to use it religiously. 2c5a is pretty beastly in it self, especially followed by another one or iad jc. The core of satsuki mixup is based around her airthrow highlow games, ad getting your opponent scared enough to let you cross them up as much as you want with sj.
One last thing. There is no possible way to combo off a ch jc, because it throws them on the ground immediatly. Jb is your air to air weapon of choice because it's comboable, *and* has more priority.
ps: you should mention how to combo len, miyako, ciel, and kouma. I know that ticked me off when I played satsuki..
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Some serious corrections would be required in this post actually...
OTG relaunch into grab for individual characters is actually rather...different. on each end of the scale is shiki tohno(where 2c5b5a works...) and Ren (where 214a works...)
the MASSIVE SACCHIN COMBO of doom doesn't actually start from j.[c]... that actually has a 50% prorate when starting off it.
The Ultimate SACCHIN COMBO OF DOOM is off a counterhit...j.b on a GROUNDED opponent. Chain into 5b2b 236c for a 3k combo starter with 0% prorate...
Her AA ch j.b is pretty scary too, leads to free ex grab.
and her best 100% meter combos are off 214c , not through 623c relaunch grabbing.
Hella hard though.
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More is coming! I work full time for most of the week and am usually too tired to come home and type up more stuff. Like right now. And to make things worse, I must go wash some clothes. /sigh
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I don't know how Satsukis 214A works on ver.B Arcade but I do want to point out that on ver.B ps2 it's only jump cancellable on block once. After that you must score a hit of some sort or be hit to reset the jump cancel on block property. It doesnt usually effect anything but if you've ever wondered why it seems like sometimes the jump cancel just 'didn't work' this is probably your answer.
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Magikarp, j.B counter hit combo would be nice, but it's not really bread and butter. j.[C] is, on hit, pretty much a 40% damage combo. 50%+ if you want to splurge meter. It's definitely not something to frown at.
I also fail to see how 214c can produce the most damaging Satsuki combos. Care to elaborate? Seems to me that if it was practical, JP Sacchin players would have started using it long ago. Bunker canceling to 214a -> 214c is nice and all, but hardly something to get really excited about.
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Actually the J.B CH combo IS definately a Satsuki staple. the J.[C] combo is the opposite, landing that on good players does not happen often at all.
And he's also correct about 214C (and 22C for that matter) Doing more damage than 623C loop, which is why the japanese players are starting to use it.
The tactics Karp is mentioning are the latest and greatest newest Satsuki ideas and not in many vids yet. Dismissing them is a mistake, learning them now can bring you up to speed before even alot of JP satsuki players.
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Update on new BNB string explanation. Pretty good shit!
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I tried during the new 214A combo with very little success. Anything special to note about the timing of the jump cancel for 214A? You have wait a bit after the hit no?
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If you mean the 2c 5b 214a jc 4/6A+B combo... make sure you're queuing into the 214a at the right time. Hit the 'a' input a few frames before the execution. Airthrow should be done EARLY. Meaning you jump cancel, and within a few frames of flight when you're actually allowed to attack or throw, do the throw. If you're still having trouble, I'll make a 214a video when I get home and post it on YouTube/here.
*psst* j.b or j.c 2b5b5c214c ->wallslam->5c214a 8j.c -> airthrow = awesome. TRY IT.
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Oh I see. I didn't figure that you were suppose to jump cancel into airthrow that fast. I'll keep that in mind the next time I play her. Thanks.
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SACCHIN 214a TO AIRTHROW EXAMPLE VIDEO (http://kindress.com/files/AirthrowTutorial.avi)
Just contains three examples of comboing into an airthrow.
1. 5b no meter example
2. 5c no meter example (what, 50+ damage? nothx)
3. New 100% BNB wallslam into airthrow (safe)
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Updated post with full notation instead of that "string" BS, added a new combo string, took out a lot of :blah: - I'll try to add some replays of certain combos when we get verB2.
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Is Bloodsucking Impulse (63214C) still a move? I can't get it to trigger.
~M
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Is Bloodsucking Impulse (63214C) still a move? I can't get it to trigger.
~M
yup, its still in the game
632146C is the motion, might explain why you're having trouble :p
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In fact, I believe just 6216C works. At least I'm sure 63216C does work, and it used to be 6216C in FT times, I haven't investigated carefully since ver.B2 came out.
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Cool, thanks much to both of you!
~M
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In this string that Choko posted "Average ground string: {2a{a}} -> 2c 5b{or 5c} 623b -> groundslam -> 5b 623c -> groundbounce -> 2c 5c {OPTIONAL: 214a} j.c 4/6A+D" I usually replace the 623b -> groundslam -> 5b 623c with 623b -> groundslam -> 5b 2c 623c. Im wondering if the way i do it is ok. Also, I wonder why I usually see it with just the 5b.
Thanks.
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i am not a sacchin player, but the thing you list, do youmean doing the first 623C where the 623B is at? in that case ur burning 200 percent meter, instead of just 100 percent ?... anyways... uh i dunno i htink sometimes you would just go for 1 623C cause of prorate?
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More than one 623C in a Satsuki combo without the chance of killing your opponent from doing so or being in max mode is a gigantic waste of meter.
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he's not talking about adding a second ex cancel to his combo..he's wondering about the OTG juggle. The reason you see 5b in the 'average ground string' is cause it'll work for most characthers in most situations. It'll also depend on your distance from the corner. Correct me if i'm wrong but the {5b 2c(dunno if you mean one or two hits?) 623c} you listed won't work on most of the cast mid-screen. Tho you can do a {2c(2hit) 5b 623} OTG juggle when you got someone in the corner. It's a little extra damage and meter but does add a rebeat..and I think it works on most of the cast.
Best advice I can give if you're looking for otg juggle specifics is watch more japanese vids/head into practice mode and start taking notes :p
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5B 2C (2 hits) 623C will work on Warakia, Shiki Tohno, Satsuki, and Kouma mid-screen.
5B 2C (2 hits) 623C will work in the corner against most everyone save for Nanaya.
Some other stuff that should be in this thread...
One variation of the corner combo after 623B that I've grown fond of that seems to work on most characters (some with character-specific tweaks here and there) goes likes this:
stuff 623B 5B 2B 2C (1 or 2 hits - char dependent) 5C 214A 623C
The meter-building corner combo you don't see much these days goes as follows:
stuff 2C (2nd hit knock-down) j.[C] 5a OR 2a x4 or x5 (character specific) 5B 2B 5C 2C (1 or 2 hits - char dependent) 214A (623C) - This 623C is character-specific and I can only remember it working on Warakia and Ciel. Note that you will lose jump-cancel capability early during this combo due to 2C being jump canceled. You can get around this by starting the combo off from a 2A OTG. Consider using the super-jump crossover variation outlined below should you use 623C at the end and have used up your jump-cancel early in the combo.
Example Video (http://frozenheat.net/mbac/sacchin-corner_meter_combo.avi)
A blockstring ending with 214B can net you a 623C or a j.Air Throw. It acts as an overhead so, if your opponent doesn't have Satsuki matchup experience, he will most likely fall for it a couple of times so long as you don't use it that often. On block, at the correct distance, you should be safe. In fact, people have a tendency to attack after blocking 214B which can allow you to take advantage of the situation. Throwing in a shield after 214B is blocked can net you another free combo.
Satsuki's crossup from 623C 2C (2 hits) has multiple options. You start out by jump canceling the second hit of the 2C into a forward jump. Immediately cancel the forward jump into a jump straight up and then hold forward. Satsuki will slowly fall to the ground now and if her path of movement is uninterrupted you should land directly behind your opponent.
Some of her options are as follows:
- AD back j.C into combo. Crossup.
- Land 2C into combo. Fake crossup.
- AD back j.[C] (hold down charge so that it does not execute) land 2C into combo. Beats high shield. Beats heat if you anticipate it and space properly. 2C clashes through heat.
- AD back j.[C] (hold down charge so that it does not execute) land 5B 2C into combo. Beats low shield (unlikely to be used >_>). eats heat if you anticipate and space properly. 5B clashes through heat.
Satsuki also has a crossup from her air throw so long as her opponent does not end up in the corner. From a situation like j.C 5B 2B 2C 623B 5B 623C 2C (2 hits) 5C 214A Air Throw you can superjump toward your opponent and create the same kind of situation above if you have your spacing and timing down.
If you find yourself not being able to just barely go over your opponent's head as he/she is getting up from the air throw after you superjump you need to do your air throw lower to the ground.
The standard options for this kind of a crossup are the same as the above if you have your spacing and timing down properly.
The trick to sealing this deal is to walk forward just a tiny bit or even dash and walk back a bit if the situation calls for it after connecting with the air throw. This can help with your spacing if you know for a fact that superjumping is going to land you in the wrong spot (i.e: in front of your opponent).
However, this is only one way of setting it up and requires you to air-backdash early in order to avoid hitting your opponent if they choose to rise in the standing state. Consider it the easy version of the more high-end setup.
The real trick in timing is to get it so that your air-backdash j.C hits almost perfectly meaty as your opponent gets up. In order to execute this, you need to superjump almost instantly after you hit the ground with little to no movement forward after landing. This will barely ignore the hitbox of your opponent when you air-backdash which creates one of the hardest Satsuki mixups for anyone to block. need to do more research on this part
If you find yourself superjumping toward your opponent but the distance is too far to cross him/her up you can do a j.[C] mixup.
The j.[C] mixup revolves around your opponent fearing being hit by a j.[C] due to it's high-damage and combo followup which leads to even more damage.
If your opponent blocks your j.[C] you are perfectly safe and it also eats a big chunk of his/her red bar. One path they can take to countering it involves shielding.
Both blocking and shielding of j.[C] cause your opponent to be susceptible to the j.[C] mixup.
The j.[C] mixup can be used in super jumps, normal jumps, and IADs toward your opponent.
Video Example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU1l004Yzfs)
The central point of this mixup is the fact that j.[C] can be purposefully whiffed into the ground. By timing your charge so that j.[C] never finishes charging you can cause your opponent to block or shield while you land right in front of them with little to no lag at all to do whatever you want. You can throw, arc drive (risky!), 2C, 5B, EX Bite, etc.
I haven't fully researched these options against all characters so YMMV.
Update 1/29/08:
Don't be afraid to end your blockstrings with 236A if you feel that you've pressed a lot and your opponent is being pushed too far away. Everyone and their dog can predict the old 214A IAD j.C blockstring ender. This will at least end without you eating a bara or a random poke.
An interesting setup for mixup with Satsuki's air throw involves the usual superjump as soon as you land from throwing your opponent canceled at some point in time by a double jump up or toward which is then canceled almost immediately into an air-dash forward. Where does this put you? Somewhere above your opponent maybe, perhaps behind, or even in front. Can be used with j.[C] and j.C mixup variations into low 2C, grab, bite, etc. Be creative.
Using 2[C] as apart of your blockstrings can be beneficial in terms of mixup because a) some opponents don't expect it and get hit by it b) some opponents still block it but don't know that there's a 3rd hit and get hit by that c) seems to provide more frame advantage (need to check this). Furthermore, 2[C] has some weird clash properties that have been seen beating aerial and ground attacks of all kinds. YMMV
Having trouble connecting your 2C (2 hits) after 623C? Some alternatives include 2C (1 hit) 5C, 5B, and 5C into air throw setups. However, you can't bypass this if you're going for a 2C (2 hit) jump cancel mixup. What you can do if you want to go for air-backdash mixup after 623C on a char you can't land 2C (2 hits) on consistently is super jump over them right after 623C and continue as though you jump canceled the 2C (2 hits). Jump straight up, hold back while falling down right next to your opponent (you'll actually be moving forward because Satsuki will turn around) and then either land or air-backdash. Video Example (http://frozenheat.net/mbac/sacchin-corner_meter_combo.avi) Don't ever risk a guaranteed match/round because you don't know the precise timing to 2C (2 hits) after 623C. Save learning that for practice mode.
Another mixup you can use if you've trained your opponent to expect SJ forward airdash back j.C is to hold down that j.C to make it cancel into the ground by charging and immediately throwing out a 2C. This needs to be accomplished at extremely low heights and your opponent must be expecting an overhead attack by blocking or shielding high. Of course, there are other ways to get out of this like backdash, but that applies most all mixups anyways. This mixup in particular works well in the corner where you can combo off a j.C into a 2C (1 hit) 214C or just go for the j.C whiff into 2C (1 hit) 214C.
22A is a fairly reliable anti-air. However, you need good timing and spacing/positioning in order to use it properly. It will beat out a lot of jump-in's with a counter-hit to boot most of the time. From there you can go into 5B 623B whatever or at least 5B 623C. Make sure to note that it is air-blockable. This move has a very, very small hitbox and should be used with care.
More stuff later maybe...
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I just +heated my first someone! :o nice post
Satsuki also has a crossup from her air throw so long as her opponent does not end up in the corner. From a situation like j.C 5B 2B 2C 623B 5B 623C 2C (2 hits) 5C 214A Air Throw you can superjump toward your opponent and create the same kind of situation above if you have your spacing and timing down.
If you find yourself not being able to just barely go over your opponent's head as he/she is getting up from the air throw after you superjump you need to do your air throw lower to the ground.
The standard options for this kind of a crossup are the same as the above if you have your spacing and timing down properly.
If you find yourself superjumping toward your opponent but the distance is too far to cross him/her up you can do a j.[C] mixup.
I've often wondered about this ..as i've been seeing in a lot of recent match vids, players omitting the 214a -> airthrow from the standard BNB and simply jump canceling into air dash airthrow instead.I couldn't really see an advantage in this other than the slightly faster time you landing and positioning yourself for the crossup followup. Does'nt really seem worth the waste of damage and meter tho. Maybe they're just oldschool players too used to the old 214a mechanics
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Actually, 2c5c IAD airthrow string is the old skool way of doing things. It's true that it lets you land quicker, thus set up your superjump crossover/air backdash mixup differently (makes the air backdash easier). However, I never use this. The execution requirements are silly, there's less damage, and the air backdash mixup is more effective if you superjump right on your opponent's waking up head so it looks like you'll air backdash into them, but you get to land a j.C in their front side instead. In other words, I believe the old school combo is too easy to predict.
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What do you think about this start up with satsuki 2A(2A),5B,5C,2C,214C,2C,5C,623B...we all know the rest.
ONLY WORKS WHEN ENEMY IN CORNER.
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What do you think about this start up with satsuki 2A(2A),5B,5C,2C,214C,2C,5C,623B...we all know the rest.
ONLY WORKS WHEN ENEMY IN CORNER.
omit the initial 2c, add a 2b in there. Better combo.
ie. 2a(2a), 2b, 5b, 5c, 214c, 2c, 5c, 623b... etc etc
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Using 214A canceled into 214C introduces a 65%r proration to the combo so it should not be used.
Minor bump for updates in previous post (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/index.php?topic=58.msg22844#msg22844)...
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Don't forget the 214A before 214C for free damage + meter.
Minor bump for updates in previous post (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/index.php?topic=58.msg22844#msg22844)...
well actually its only extra meter, in exchange for about 300 less damage
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Don't forget the 214A before 214C for free damage + meter.
Minor bump for updates in previous post (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/index.php?topic=58.msg22844#msg22844)...
well actually its only extra meter, in exchange for about 300 less damage
You are correct. I forgot something important about specials that are super-canceled - or rather, didn't know.
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btw magz, do you have any vids of the corner meter-building combo
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btw magz, do you have any vids of the corner meter-building combo
http://frozenheat.net/mbac/sacchin-corner_meter_combo.avi
Since you use up the ability to jump-cancel early on during this combo, I opted to use the super-jump crossover variation where you sj right after the 623C to create an okizeme situation.
This can be bypassed by not jump canceling during the early part of the combo and instead starting out from 2A as an OTG.
If you don't use 623C or it doesn't work on that character they will be able to tech out of the 2C or 214A.
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about ending on a 236A after block string while I use that move however not as much as the classic 214A, you can mess with ppls heads by not iad. back Cing after that.
Quite a few times ending a blockstring with 236B has worked very well the ppl were so perplexed that I wasn't hitting them they stopped blocking to attack me and woopys grabbed.
YES I KNOW 236B IS REALLY RISKY, but its still funny to mock ppl for getting hit by it.
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oshi- collect 100% to use up for ex hand job lol
ill probably end up stopping at 214a
it is a good idea to sometimes stop and use a 236b, the second your opponent realized whats happening they cant react fast enough to avoid it, its a strong mixup attack imo, and it earns you almost free damage.
imo its only risky at early game and if you use it too many times. hell just using it once(or twice) to scare your opponent into knowing you have that option is a nice advantage. havnt fully gotten used to ending with a 236b, but after i get used to it and mix up between those two, i think ill attempt to add in another mix up of just standing there or whiffing an attack just to make them attack and then go in for a counter attack combo
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I stopped using 236B because it can be reacted to almost for free. It can be useful if your opponent is chicken blocking though. The best thing you can do is mix it up with delayed 236A to make it less expected.
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btw what do you do after you get a 214a in on a grounded person
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btw what do you do after you get a 214a in on a grounded person
On hit or on block?
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on hit
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on hit
Oh, if you're talking about after the 214A in the OTG combo, then you should just wait and see how your opponent techs. If they don't tech, get when they wakeup. If they do, a well-placed 5B or 2A should either a) get them to block or b) tech punish. If it doesn't leave you advantageous, at least you got away with a bunch of meter. I haven't really experimented with this thoroughly yet. More results to come in the future.
If you were talking about someone that you just randomly landed a 214A on while on the ground from let's say a random 5B into 214A, there are a few options you have. You can jump cancel, but I wouldn't recommend IAD forward. If you're close enough to the corner, you can super cancel to 214C into a combo ending in air throw but that would prorate pretty badly. It all depends on your current meter level and your distance from the corner.
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I'm having serious trouble hitting with the air grab in the circuitless BnB in the first post when fighting a standing still dummy in practice mode, clearly I am a mental cripple.
Does anyone have any advice they can offer me?
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I'm having serious trouble hitting with the air grab in the circuitless BnB in the first post when fighting a standing still dummy in practice mode, clearly I am a mental cripple.
Does anyone have any advice they can offer me?
Delay the 5C after the 2nd hit of 2C. If you do it too fast, your opponent will be too high to connect a jump throw.
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I'm having serious trouble hitting with the air grab in the circuitless BnB in the first post when fighting a standing still dummy in practice mode, clearly I am a mental cripple.
Does anyone have any advice they can offer me?
Delay the 5C after the 2nd hit of 2C. If you do it too fast, your opponent will be too high to connect a jump throw.
Turns out my problem was different.
9A+D doesn't seem to airthrow.
:'(
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okay new question
situation:
opponent is blocking, i 214a(it becomes blocked) iad out of it then j.c(which hits miraculously or something), go into 2c5c623b(groundslam)5b623c2c5c
now the question is after that last 5c can i jump cancel out of it and go into a grab
also can i jump cancel if i used 214a at the end instead
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I have another stupid question about the circuitless ground combo. I've noticed that if the 2c is thrown out at a certain range and both hits still connect it's almost impossible to hit with the air throw? Am I doing something wrong like not delaying the 5c long enough, because I've been altering the timing on it and it's not helping, nor is altering the timing on the jump throw. I can't really find a thread offering a comprehensive view of jump throwing's mechanics on the board.
Also, the combo isn't useful if I need my face practically in the enemy's crotch for it to work, although the problem is alleviated if I throw in the optional 214a before the jump throw if I'm not so far that it misses.
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replays would help us diagnose your problems
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replays would help us diagnose your problems
I would, but fraps rapes my computer and I have no idea what the hell a .rpd is and nor does google.
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replays would help us diagnose your problems
I would, but fraps rapes my computer and I have no idea what the hell a .rpd is and nor does google.
C:\Program Files\EcoleSoftware\MBACWIN\Replay
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replays would help us diagnose your problems
I would, but fraps rapes my computer and I have no idea what the hell a .rpd is and nor does google.
C:\Program Files\EcoleSoftware\MBACWIN\Replay
Yes. I know where the files are but I can't DO anything with them. I can't find anything to read them or convert them.
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replays would help us diagnose your problems
I would, but fraps rapes my computer and I have no idea what the hell a .rpd is and nor does google.
C:\Program Files\EcoleSoftware\MBACWIN\Replay
Yes. I know where the files are but I can't DO anything with them. I can't find anything to read them or convert them.
To view:
MBAC\Practice Mode\F5\Replay
To Share:
Record > Zip > Upload
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replays would help us diagnose your problems
I would, but fraps rapes my computer and I have no idea what the hell a .rpd is and nor does google.
C:\Program Files\EcoleSoftware\MBACWIN\Replay
Yes. I know where the files are but I can't DO anything with them. I can't find anything to read them or convert them.
To view:
MBAC\Practice Mode\F5\Replay
To Share:
Record > Zip > Upload
D:
It didn't help but I found and ugly workaround (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GlVQS7oahBc).
See, I can nail the jump throw in the string when I start the 2c closer to the target, but at that distance it just doesn't seem work.
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okay new question
situation:
opponent is blocking, i 214a(it becomes blocked) iad out of it then j.c(which hits miraculously or something), go into 2c5c623b(groundslam)5b623c2c5c
now the question is after that last 5c can i jump cancel out of it and go into a grab
also can i jump cancel if i used 214a at the end instead
214a is pretty much the only jump cancellable special in the game. Jump cancel into airthrow always.
The ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY reason not to use 214a before jump cancel into air throw is if you want to throw your opponent really close to the ground using 2c5c IAD airthrow. I, personally, have no faith in this version as you simply need to airthrow earlier or later to do all of Satsuki's airthrow okizeme.
Also, if you hit with a j.C, it is always more damaging to do 2a5b2c5c214a airthrow.
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D:
It didn't help but I found and ugly workaround (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GlVQS7oahBc).
See, I can nail the jump throw in the string when I start the 2c closer to the target, but at that distance it just doesn't seem work.
You need to use 214A in that situation. If you don't want to use 214A, you will more likely than not have to jump cancel the 5C into IAD forward into air throw. That's how they used to do it back before 214A was jump cancelable. There isn't much reason to use the old method since it requires more execution. However, it gives you a lot more control over how high you are from the ground whereas the 214A method causes you to be at a very high point when doing your air throw.
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Here is a video of how to airthrow. XviD encoded.
http://instantairdash.com/SacchinAir.avi (http://instantairdash.com/SacchinAir.avi)
...yes, I now own Instantairdash.com.
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okay new question
situation:
opponent is blocking, i 214a(it becomes blocked) iad out of it then j.c(which hits miraculously or something), go into 2c5c623b(groundslam)5b623c2c5c
now the question is after that last 5c can i jump cancel out of it and go into a grab
also can i jump cancel if i used 214a at the end instead
214a is pretty much the only jump cancellable special in the game. Jump cancel into airthrow always.
The ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY reason not to use 214a before jump cancel into air throw is if you want to throw your opponent really close to the ground using 2c5c IAD airthrow. I, personally, have no faith in this version as you simply need to airthrow earlier or later to do all of Satsuki's airthrow okizeme.
Also, if you hit with a j.C, it is always more damaging to do 2a5b2c5c214a airthrow.
D: still didn't answer the question, anyways that was just an example of after if i do get a hit with j.c
question is if i can still jump cancel on the last 214a or 5c before the airthrow (well actually more like can some1 try this and confirm wether this is possible or not(just set the opponent to crouch block)
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okay new question
situation:
opponent is blocking, i 214a(it becomes blocked) iad out of it then j.c(which hits miraculously or something), go into 2c5c623b(groundslam)5b623c2c5c
now the question is after that last 5c can i jump cancel out of it and go into a grab
also can i jump cancel if i used 214a at the end instead
214a is pretty much the only jump cancellable special in the game. Jump cancel into airthrow always.
The ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY reason not to use 214a before jump cancel into air throw is if you want to throw your opponent really close to the ground using 2c5c IAD airthrow. I, personally, have no faith in this version as you simply need to airthrow earlier or later to do all of Satsuki's airthrow okizeme.
Also, if you hit with a j.C, it is always more damaging to do 2a5b2c5c214a airthrow.
D: still didn't answer the question, anyways that was just an example of after if i do get a hit with j.c
question is if i can still jump cancel on the last 214a or 5c before the airthrow (well actually more like can some1 try this and confirm wether this is possible or not(just set the opponent to crouch block)
It doesn't seem like either will work due to your jump-cancel ability being stripped due to the 214A jump-cancel on block.
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magz, incorrect. 214a regains its jump cancel whenever you or the enemy are hit. A way to test this:
2c5c214a jc to airthrow. Airthrow adds an extra hit to your combo counter. Go for okizeme and have your opponent block everything until you 214a again. You will be able to jump cancel this 214a.
Also, sorry @ Twinniss. I didn't consider the question properly.
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magz, incorrect. 214a regains its jump cancel whenever you or the enemy are hit. A way to test this:
2c5c214a jc to airthrow. Airthrow adds an extra hit to your combo counter. Go for okizeme and have your opponent block everything until you 214a again. You will be able to jump cancel this 214a.
Partially correct. You're ignoring Twinniss's example situation again. He specifically is talking about 214A (blocked) jump cancel IAD forward j.C into combo leading to 623C 2C (2 hits) 5C. From here, you can not jump cancel due to the weird property 214A jump cancel on block has where, if you jump cancel a blocked 214A into IAD j.C into a combo, you lose jump cancel ability for that combo. Feel free to test it yourself.
@Twinniss: My recommendation for when you find yourself in this situation is go with the immediate super jump mixup right after the 623C (described in my earlier post).
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I stand completely correctly. It is not possible to jump cancel this sequence. This explains a lot to me.
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wow
Does this just strip 214a of its jump cancability(thats not a word?!) for the move alone or does it mean you cant jump cancel at any point in the combo. If its the former it would answer my earlier question and explain why you'd see the IAD airthrows instead of the usual fare
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Hey guys, I'm surprised to see no talk whatsoever of the infinite here. I've been practicing the Ciel variant -- for the benefit of the lazy, you can start however you want as long as you manage to land a 623c in corner near the beginning of heat, and then: [2c 5c 214a (delay) 22c 5[c] 2[c] 2c 22b 5a 5b 623b 2c 5b 2aaaa 2b 5c 214a 623c]xN
I'm having some trouble getting the whole OTG string in -- you need to walk slightly forward before the OTG (which I failed to do in the attached replay, which caused me to fail), but even at point blank I just can't seem to be able to get 4 2a's in. Any suggestions? (It may not even matter -- I haven't checked if 4 2A's are actually necessary, but my guess is that they probably are) Also, any ideas why the late 22c cancel on the 214a is so inconsistent? It just seems to randomly not work.
EDIT: Ok, managed to get the OTG, but it's *by far* the hardest part of the infinite. You need to walk forward a bit after the 623b (even when you see Sacchin walking forward, there's a zone where she'll still whiff the 4th 2a and another zone where she'll get 4 2a's but whiff the 2b, so it seems you need to walk forward at least 3f, possibly more) and it makes it very hard to connect the 2c, anything other than an extremely light tap is a guaranteed failure because of charging.
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wow
Does this just strip 214a of its jump cancability(thats not a word?!) for the move alone or does it mean you cant jump cancel at any point in the combo. If its the former it would answer my earlier question and explain why you'd see the IAD airthrows instead of the usual fare
It's for the entire duration of that combo that you do from the IAD j.C which was jump-canceled from the blocked 214A.
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magz, incorrect. 214a regains its jump cancel whenever you or the enemy are hit. A way to test this:
2c5c214a jc to airthrow. Airthrow adds an extra hit to your combo counter. Go for okizeme and have your opponent block everything until you 214a again. You will be able to jump cancel this 214a.
Also, sorry @ Twinniss. I didn't consider the question properly.
i'm having problem. with Airthrow.
i was able to did 2c5c214a, then hit the cpu to the air, then my jump hit or throw miss 90% of the time, what gives? most of the time, i just hit air when trying to airthrow. it looks like my jump is too high compare to the video. i'm kind of new to the game, i played alot of SF and KoFs. it looks like my timing is almost off when doing combos in this game, mostly air combo.
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Post a replay.
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for some reason my replay is not in C:\Program Files\EcoleSoftware\MBACWIN\Replay. it only has "MeltyWiki Instant Air Dash" replay inside that folder, but i can replay it in the game. Rep00. i will try to fine it tomorrow. 1am here.
Edit: i recorded the game, but it's not in the replay folder.
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Edit: i recorded the game, but it's not in the replay folder.
Just do a quick versus player match and save the replay.
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Edit: i recorded the game, but it's not in the replay folder.
Just do a quick versus player match and save the replay.
again, samething. able to save the match and watch it, but i can't find the replay file. Do a search and find nothing. i don't think i have a different game, i was able to download other people's replay and watch it.
Edit: nvm, i think i know why now after reading Tiger Kneeing on wiki.meltybread.com while trying to find replay file. I would still want to know how people make those replay files. any link would be helpful.
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although this is starting to go into the other threads on problems
right click your replay folder and click properties check to see if it doesnt say read only for the folder
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We don't care about infinates cause in MB they just waste time they can't kill unless you are willing to wait an hour because of the damn scaling, and plus if we really want to we can combo for a damn long time anyways, I mean once you get past the 20sec mark you are hardly doing any damage whatso ever.
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infinite = win by time out
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I have a question about this video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI7GcIh8lTs) a little after :08 he performs 2c5b 623c OTG, and I can't seem to nail it for the life of me. I was wondering if it was a practical combo to learn for the execution requirements, as I can't seem to nail it after two hours of practice, and the execution requirements seem a little up there and it doesn't seem to add THAT much damage over 2c->623c.
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Unless you are desperate for meter, 2C(2 hits) 623C is fine.
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You have to walk forwards slightly before the 2C. I'd guess about 3-4 frames worth.
Also, holding 2C for longer than 2 frames will delay it and reduce your timing window, so tap it very lightly.
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*Sigh*
I am back again, I know I have asked alot of questions but here is another. What are your options after 623b with Nanaya? I can't seem to figure out the loop into 623c.
You know...I wish there was a list or something. It would be the most useful thing to Sacchin players ever.
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*Sigh*
I am back again, I know I have asked alot of questions but here is another. What are your options after 623b with Nanaya? I can't seem to figure out the loop into 623c.
You know...I wish there was a list or something. It would be the most useful thing to Sacchin players ever.
5b 623c works just fine. Maybe the timing is a little more strict for him but I have not noticed.
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*Sigh*
I am back again, I know I have asked alot of questions but here is another. What are your options after 623b with Nanaya? I can't seem to figure out the loop into 623c.
You know...I wish there was a list or something. It would be the most useful thing to Sacchin players ever.
5b 623c works just fine. Maybe the timing is a little more strict for him but I have not noticed.
Huh...that wasn't working for me. But I will go back to practice mode and work on it until I get it.
D:
Should the grab go off before or after he bounces off the ground?
EDIT: Nevermind I got it, it's almost immediately after the 5b.
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For all characters that can be hit by 5b after 623B/236B you should aim for hitting 623C as soon as you input that 5B. Make sure you don't input the 5b until 623B ends or else you'll end up with a 623C on a ground person A.K.A free combo for your opponent.
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i buffer 623 immediately after i press b. the only problem of this is that i don't really check to see that my 5b activated or not, and its kinda hard to stop yourself from pressing the c
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i buffer 623 immediately after i press b. the only problem of this is that i don't really check to see that my 5b activated or not, and its kinda hard to stop yourself from pressing the c
Once you've played her for long enough, you will get it down in muscle memory.
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I have some questions again!
What kind of combos does Sacchin have involving 214c and 22c?
And I'm having trouble figuring how to cross-up during block strings...I always get hit when I jump over them. Any advice?
I also suck at figuring out what to do when I have an enemy turtling in a corner, although I have yet to try ex-bite from a fake IAD j[C]
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214c in/near corner: (j.C) (2a) 5B 2B 5C 214C 2C (2 hits) into either a) 5C 214A Air Throw or b) Wakeup crossup from 2C
As for 22C it depends where you are.
If you're in the corner you can probably get away with anything. It's untechable. Just be creative. I haven't tested these much but check to see if you can get a 5[C] in.
If you're at least the a screen away from the corner you will be looking at something involving sj.[C] into 5[C] into something. Once again, be creative while keeping proration in mind.
I don't know about cross-ups during blockstrings. I don't recall ever going for them myself. If your opponents are poking out, in general, you want to stagger your strings better and train them to block. However, if they know what Sacchin is capable of, and the fact that you give up so much by jumping over your opponent, it shouldn't be very hard for your opponent to escape once you take to the air.
Don't forget about fake j.[C] throw if you don't think you'll have enough time to do a bite.
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Is it possible to nail 5b2c5c214a air-throw from the jC in a properly timed air-throw mixup?
I seem to be able to do it if I use the 5c at last second, but I'm not sure if I'm hitting with my jC appropriately.
EDIT: Nevermind, it's possible.
EDIT 2: For you obsessive bastards, 22a can be comboed into 2c5c214a air throw off of counter hit.
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well i was messing around and i figured that if you were to get a 214a onto a grounded person you best move would be 22c
i suppose if your opponent was more than a screen away and you get this in, you can do super jump>j.[c]>into combo
and if they are in a corner then whatever wall slam combo you have in mind
anyways that aside, what should you do when you get a 22c in from a screen away(edge of screen your opponent closest to corner)
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2b5b 22c sj[C] dash/walkup 2C5c214a airthrow is very lovely and should be done more often. Replace your standard 100% bnb with it when you can. The combo can be modified for more damage; if you're close enough to the corner that the sj[C] does not put the enemy out of range of a 5[C] then "2C5c214a" can be replaced by 5[C]2[C]5B214a airthrow. Your opponent will be crying if you manage to hit him with the more powerful version.
And for a 200% meter combo that does 6k:
2b5b 22c sj[C] dash/walkup 2c5c623b you know the rest.
And if you're feeling like a royal douche:
2b5b 22c sj[C]5[C]2[C]5b623b otg hit 623c 2c5c airthrow. Or you could follow up the 623b with the meter building corner combo. Or any corner combo that follows a 623b.
I'm trying to see if I can turn that 2B5B into 2B5B5C. So far I have had little success.
22c has lots of weird properties, I'm still working on combos for distances that are really close to the corner but not close enough for a straight circuitless bnb from 5c. I think it's probably something involving IAD jC to ____.
Edit: The combos can also be started with 5B2B, making this much more useful. You just have to superjump and charge your jC immediately after the last hit of 22C. Also the 22C has to be thrown out pretty quickly as well.
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okay new question
situation:
opponent is blocking, i 214a(it becomes blocked) iad out of it then j.c(which hits miraculously or something), go into 2c5c623b(groundslam)5b623c2c5c
now the question is after that last 5c can i jump cancel out of it and go into a grab
also can i jump cancel if i used 214a at the end instead
214a is pretty much the only jump cancellable special in the game. Jump cancel into airthrow always.
The ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY reason not to use 214a before jump cancel into air throw is if you want to throw your opponent really close to the ground using 2c5c IAD airthrow. I, personally, have no faith in this version as you simply need to airthrow earlier or later to do all of Satsuki's airthrow okizeme.
Also, if you hit with a j.C, it is always more damaging to do 2a5b2c5c214a airthrow.
sorry bout putting something up from long ago, but j. C does more dmg at least on the chars I did it on, and before you ask yes I did turn off critical hit mode, plus j.C builds some meter which regardless of the dmg, that has to count for something.
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I have a question. Would it be a good idea, for a mid-screen oki to.
1.Jump once over the opponent, until right when they stand up, dash back and j.b or j.c
2.Superjump over them and backdash into a throw.
3. Stand over them, a few times and 2a twice, before going into a 236b.
or
4.When they get up get them with a 641236C?
Or are they all bad options?
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I have a question. Would it be a good idea, for a mid-screen oki to.
1.Jump once over the opponent, until right when they stand up, dash back and j.b or j.c
2.Superjump over them and backdash into a throw.
3. Stand over them, a few times and 2a twice, before going into a 236b.
or
4.When they get up get them with a 641236C?
Or are they all bad options?
I have seen 1,3 used a decent bit, 4 is good but only if your oppenent doesn't see it comming otherwise its just asking for you to be raped.
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Alright. One more question, to all the Satsuki fansXP
Which would you say is better, J.b or J.c?
I like J.b because of how fast it is, but I am a little more or less leaning towards J.c for power.
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I suggest going with choice 1
as for j.b or j.c it depends. j.b should be used more with iad because of its range and speed(and fucks ppl up alot). j.c i think is best to catch someone off gaurd, and imo it has pretty good range
use j.b/j.c generally when your opponent is on the ground, and probably j.a(or air grab) if both are in the air, or if your opponent is on the ground but you already very close to them and havnt done anything yet
don't try to use j.b for CH imo, i usually get CH'd instead
btw power is useless if the attack doesn't go in
just my 2 cents, experiment for what you feel is best. everyone has a different style for the air attacks(i actually prefer to use j.a over j.b a lot of times)
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j.C for comboing, j.B for pressure, j.A and j.B for counter-hit and landing cancels
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Ahh.
Okay.Thanks.
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Yeah, pretty much what Choco said.
Of the moves:
j.A has the best horizontal priority / startup
j.B has the best horizontal range / attack duration
j.C has the best downward priority / damage / stun time
Also, j.B and j.C have the same startup, but with j.C the attack is delayed for charging if you hold it for more than one frame. Tap it fast.
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So yeah, with Sacchin's 4-way mix-up from airthrow I'm having a hard time implementing 6x3 part of the crossup.
I can hit with*:
1: airdash back jC
2: Land 2c on either side
3: airdash back land (or fake jC) 2c
4: sj over dj straight up jC
Consistently, my problem is that I wish I had something faster than dj jC; it's just asking to be blocked or shielded. I'm stuck with turning my 4-way into a lame j[C] mixup if I want 6x3 crossup.
D:
Any solutions?
*Excluding throw, ex-bite, and AD.
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Just as you go over their head:
- 4756..C
- 76+A+B..C (lazy version: 47896+A+B)
- 4756+A+B..C (both of the above at once, just to make sure)
What this does is:
- 4 : Back.
- 7 : Double jump towards the opponent after going over their head to turn around.
- 56 : Back again but this time the other way, going via neutral so it registers as a backdash.
- A+B : Ensures that you still get the backdash if the direction-only method doesn't work.
- C : ...yeah.
Then follow it up with 5B into your favourite BnB. It's much easier to do if your opponent is near the corner since you can use the edge of the screen to stop yourself from going out of range, but it can be done anywhere if you get the timing and positioning right.
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Just as you go over their head:
- 4756..C
- 76+A+B..C (lazy version: 47896+A+B)
- 4756+A+B..C (both of the above at once, just to make sure)
What this does is:
- 4 : Back.
- 7 : Double jump towards the opponent after going over their head to turn around.
- 56 : Back again but this time the other way, going via neutral so it registers as a backdash.
- A+B : Ensures that you still get the backdash if the direction-only method doesn't work.
- C : ...yeah.
Then follow it up with 5B into your favourite BnB. It's much easier to do if your opponent is near the corner since you can use the edge of the screen to stop yourself from going out of range, but it can be done anywhere if you get the timing and positioning right.
So THAT'S how that works! I've been trying to figure it out for awhile now.
:D
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Why not use a relaunch like 2c5b in her EX throw loop after groundslam on Len and WLen instead of 214a? It's a reverse beat, but the damage seems to be better if you stay under 3 iterations...
EDIT Nevermind, it's corner only, on that note, do people use that in the corner, or are there even BETTER followups in the corner?
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I generally use 5C 2C 5B 2B 623C.
Shortening it depending on range by skipping (in order of preference); 2B, Second hit of 2C, 5B.
There are a few characters that screw it up. Skipping the second hit of 2C usually fixes that.
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After my 623C
I'm more prone to 2C,5C 214A, 623Cing.
Oh yeah, after the backdash..C, try 5B into 236C.
Would it be alright if I put a replay up, and anyone here could tell me what they think?
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After my 623C
I'm more prone to 2C,5C 214A, 623Cing.
Oh yeah, after the backdash..C, try 5B into 236C.
Would it be alright if I put a replay up, and anyone here could tell me what they think?
No. Just... no.
214A 623C is a Special -> EX cancel, which means you just knocked a third of the damage off 623C and all subsequent hits.
j.C 5B 236C has a very short hitconfirm before the EX, and does less damage than j.C 5B 2C..5C 623B OTG 623C unless you plan on extending it to a 200% or 300% circuit combo, and such combos really aren't recommended unless you're in Max or a potential kill situation.
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After my 623C
I'm more prone to 2C,5C 214A, 623Cing.
Oh yeah, after the backdash..C, try 5B into 236C.
Would it be alright if I put a replay up, and anyone here could tell me what they think?
bad Xkun never never super cancel 214A into anything except 22C(for an advance combo) or OTG for a few chars thats need it(aka len), cause it has really really bad prorate when you do that.
just stick to the basics for awhile as sprint pointed out.
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214A 214C has it's uses too. It's not something that should be used if there's an alternative, but sometimes it's the only thing with enough range to connect.
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214A 214C has it's uses too. It's not something that should be used if there's an alternative, but sometimes it's the only thing with enough range to connect.
that is true but I still prefer to stay away from that move cause there is almost always an alternative.
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Hmm I see.
Thanks.I'll be placing the replay up in a second.
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btw does the corner combo (2b 5b 5c 214c 2c 5c 623b ...) work on hisui?
so far i havn't been able to do it against hisui(i can against the tohnos and the shikis)
instead i have to remove the 2c. (and end up with about 5500 damage in the end)
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214C 2C does not work against Aoko, Warc, VAkiha, Kohaku, Hisui or Mech.
214C 5C isn't worth using. A standard OTG loop ends up doing more damage, or a 236C combo for 200%+ circuit.
- 2B 5B {236C} 2C 5C 623B 5C 2C 5B 623C ...
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I use 214C 5C in the corner all the time when I don't know if 2c will work.
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So guys, psychic DP with Sacchin, valid or no?
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So guys, psychic DP with Sacchin, valid or no?
You do it too much.
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only if your an old skool playa
they be doing psychic DP all day
it'll work with sacchin imo(but just more risky compared to a shoryu)
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only if your an old skool playa
they be doing psychic DP all day
it'll work with sacchin imo(just to risky compared to a shoryu)
Unless you only do it whenever they jump in.Of course you have take the ranging for it.I like being predictable,so the person devises a plan against me,and so I can change it up.That way,they're predictable instead.
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So guys, psychic DP with Sacchin, valid or no?
You do it too much.
NOT THE POINT SPARKLES.
But yes, I do.
Of course you have take the ranging for it.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!?
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If your too close it misses entirely and you end up in cross-up city. ANd if the person is out of range of by the time you activate it,you're left looking completely stupid or open to attack. I wonder how many of are..HIDING SAACHIN SECRETS!!?
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just throw out a dp when your gut instincts tell you to
mine doesn't, I'm usually making bad moves a throw out a dp just to amuse myself.
though sometimes the EX hand job screams to be unleashed cause the opponent is right withing range waiting for pleasure
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rather than psychic DP's i perfer psychic 236A/C cause that can abuse so many weird hit boxes on ppl's attacks, plus it normally knocks them back if they block it so its decently safe, but the C version will cost you.
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I constantly alternate mashing between 623 and 236. As soon as I see a jump, or twitch, I slam on B or A, respectively. C if I'm feeling lucky.
:toot:
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So guys when you're in high max I just realized you can throw out 5B 5C 236C 2C 5C 623C...
It does a ton of damage and leaves you at 200% if you go into 2C 5C 214A j.throw (over 5000).
Actually if you JUST hit max and go into 236C you can do 2C 5C 623B... for even more damage. By the time you do 623C if you just entered the combo at max you'll still be in max and leave yourself with 200%. Anyways it's fun to mess with. Her other combos with 2 supers tend to either do less damage or be so long you won't be able to stay in max for the use of both supers while in max to stay at 200%.
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So guys when you're in high max I just realized you can throw out 5B 5C 236C 2C 5C 623C...
It does a ton of damage and leaves you at 200% if you go into 2C 5C 214A j.throw (over 5000).
If you're going to do a combo with 200% meter make sure it does at least 6k. Or else you're wasting it.
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So guys when you're in high max I just realized you can throw out 5B 5C 236C 2C 5C 623C...
It does a ton of damage and leaves you at 200% if you go into 2C 5C 214A j.throw (over 5000).
If you're going to do a combo with 200% meter make sure it does at least 6k. Or else you're wasting it.
Eh j.C 5BC 236C 2C 5C 623C 2C 5C 214A j.throw does 5.8k to Sion (with pretty much average defense) and can be done starting at about 80% MAX safely. Technically it's only using 1 bar if you're in MAX and the only reason I suggest it is because it does more damage than just adding an extra 623B...623C to her normal bnb if you're in MAX and finishing the combo would bring you out of MAX if you only use 1 bar because of the amount of time to combo and oki. 236C into 2C 5C 623B and her normal bnb does over 6000 damage but is really hard to fit both supers in the MAX time frame unless you start in the upper 200%s and go into MAX from the j.C 5B 5C.
Again, I don't know if it means anything, but it IS a better alternative than simply relooping 623C twice if you're doing that while in MAX to maximize number of supers while in MAX.
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So guys when you're in high max I just realized you can throw out 5B 5C 236C 2C 5C 623C...
It does a ton of damage and leaves you at 200% if you go into 2C 5C 214A j.throw (over 5000).
If you're going to do a combo with 200% meter make sure it does at least 6k. Or else you're wasting it.
Eh j.C 5BC 236C 2C 5C 623C 2C 5C 214A j.throw does 5.8k to Sion (with pretty much average defense) and can be done starting at about 80% MAX safely. Technically it's only using 1 bar if you're in MAX and the only reason I suggest it is because it does more damage than just adding an extra 623B...623C to her normal bnb if you're in MAX and finishing the combo would bring you out of MAX if you only use 1 bar because of the amount of time to combo and oki. 236C into 2C 5C 623B and her normal bnb does over 6000 damage but is really hard to fit both supers in the MAX time frame unless you start in the upper 200%s and go into MAX from the j.C 5B 5C.
Again, I don't know if it means anything, but it IS a better alternative than simply relooping 623C twice if you're doing that while in MAX to maximize number of supers while in MAX.
Oh...well if you're in MAX then go ahead.
D:
I forgot about MAX mode.
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rather than psychic DP's i perfer psychic 236A/C cause that can abuse so many weird hit boxes on ppl's attacks, plus it normally knocks them back if they block it so its decently safe, but the C version will cost you.
From what I've been doing psychic 623A is good for SOME jump-ins, though getting 22A/22C counterhit is probably better. 623B is slower but if you anticipate it works and will do good damage.
I have been seeing the merits of 623C though. A lot of times you can just read your opponent and know when they're gonna try to jump out of your blockstring, and 623C is really fast and unless you get hit or they're not in the hitbox of it it WILL land. The range itself is HUGE (it will vacuum them out from the deep top corner when you're in the opposite corner - go find Sabator vs Sprint and see how far Sprint lands his 623C at the end).
Random 236As are pretty good, and will grab pretty often. Random 236B is only good if you don't overuse it and train the opponent to not expect it. 236C in my experience (despite me throwing it out randomly pretty often) is NOT good. It's slower than 236A by far and in fact slower than most of Satsuki's attacks that you might be able to throw out for a middle-ranged counterhit. The superflash doesn't help at all. Only use it when in MAX to get the most damage out of a combo or to counter very slow ground attacks. If you backdash out of something like Wara 5C, then maybe you should use this and it won't get blocked. Otherwise, it's slow and won't hit very often. Essentially it's like psychic 214C, but you can't trade with it and it has less range. 214C you throw out hoping to trade a slow attack to get out of the corner. 236C only works on SLOW attacks and it's much easier to get hit out of and punished.
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rather than psychic DP's i perfer psychic 236A/C cause that can abuse so many weird hit boxes on ppl's attacks, plus it normally knocks them back if they block it so its decently safe, but the C version will cost you.
From what I've been doing psychic 623A is good for SOME jump-ins, though getting 22A/22C counterhit is probably better. 623B is slower but if you
Absolutely. 22A/B counterhit = Free BnB/airthrow.
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Does anyone know the how big the hitbox during 22A/22B?
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22a hits higher than 22b i think
22a is about the same hitting height oh 5c i think, i'm not so sure
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Agh. My Resnet got disconnected. Apparently you're not allowed to have two people on one account in one apt. They say it's a security vulnerability, I say it's them wanting 200$ instead of 100.
Anyways, who here has some good anti-Nero strats? So far I've got:
d 5a CH into BnB for jump-ins and 2c 5a unsafe set-ups.
Also, I've been messing around with the 4756 mixup, I've ALMOST got it. I just need to work on getting the airthrow height correct. Anybody know anything about that? I'm hoping I can get an airthrow height that works for that AND perfect backdash jC/land 2c oki.
Edit: nevermind, I got it! I have an actual 4-way now!
Needs serious fine-tuning. But I got it.
Tentative rule of thumb: the lower the airthrow, the later you do 4756 and the earlier jC needs to come out. Mid-height airthrows are what you want for perfect oki if you include 4756 mixup.
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Gotcha
Its just i've been trying to find some easy counter-hit baits,for those attack happy opponents.
Usually,I stop my attacks to purposely let them go,so they air tech,go for an attack,and then I was searching for something to beat them out with.Shield into 5a Counter-hit isn't giving me the kill damage I wanna score..I might try a different setup,like the kind abstract was talking about for Oki-setup after airthrow.
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What incentive do people have not to shield Sacchin's 4-way?
I mean, doesn't that turn it into a 2-way?
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Try it. I think you'll be in for quite the suprise.
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Try it. I think you'll be in for quite the suprise.
Can't you just answer the question like a normal person?
:slowpoke:
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What incentive do people have not to shield Sacchin's 4-way?
I mean, doesn't that turn it into a 2-way?
If you like eating 2B 5B 22C, sure. I guess you could try shielding.
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What incentive do people have not to shield Sacchin's 4-way?
I mean, doesn't that turn it into a 2-way?
If you like eating 2B 5B 22C, sure. I guess you could try shielding.
Neat.
:O
Also, I found something about the 4756 mixup. Depending on whether you do 7,8, or 9, you can alter the way the mixup works. 4956 is the fastest but I'm having a tough time getting used to it. I think I'm going to start using it.
:V
Edit: 496 is the most hilarious crossup ever.
Now I just have to learn the infinite.
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why was this unstickied
we can still have info on MBAC, it's what the majority of americans still play. Just make a new thread on MBAA sacchin and sticky that as well
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If you like eating 2B 5B 22C, sure. I guess you could try shielding.
You'd eat it anyway due to blocking in the wrong direction. High shield is a perfectly valid option.
Low shield not so much; holding 3 covers against all low hits from behind, and ones from the front are easy enough to react to since they rely on gimmicks.
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Gimmicks have been turning matches around for a while now..
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Gimmicks have been turning matches around for a while now..
None that matter really. However, the front low is great for the occasional surprise and offending your opponent's intelligence. Though it's gimmicky, I wouldn't say it's a total waste of an option. Front low is best if you suspect high shield or react to it if you're some kind of superman. It will make the opponent scared to try it.
The only real way to de-gimmick front low is to mix in jC fake land Ex-Bite, jC fake land 623c for jumps, and I don't know what for backdash(IAD jC?). All in all it's kind of ridiculous and relies on you being quite good at reads.
Anyways, as per the high mixups, I've finally finished my experiments with 496. They are a semi-success. The mixup itself is kind of gimmicky and the spacing is very finnicky. But if you implement it right it's pretty damn solid. Especially if you're not afraid to mixup the spacing on standard backdash jC. Say, adapting it for high airthrows. 4756 itself is kind of shitty and slow, and 496 off of high airthrows is almost the exact same speed as standard jC backdash making it great to mix in occasionally if you don't want to deal with 4756's shittiness. The best way by far to improve your 4way though is to alter the spacing on backdash jC with longer walkups and earlier backdashes or shorter walkups and later backdashes. The problem with 496 is that off of lower airthrows it can be extremely slow and easy to see. So unless you think your opponent is fucking terrified, you shouldn't risk it off a low one and stick with mid/high. What should be kept in mind is that at higher levels some people can block oki on reaction if you get stale, which is why you have to be tricky with spacing and options to put the fear of god into them. That fear is going to make them fuck up, and it's what you're really going to be depending on.
Why did I make this post? It's not going to help anyone, aside from Ultima maybe. :emo:
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Gimmicks have been turning matches around for a while now..
None that matter really. However, the front low is great for the occasional surprise and offending your opponent's intelligence. Though it's gimmicky, I wouldn't say it's a total waste of an option. Front low is best if you suspect high shield or react to it if you're some kind of superman. It will make the opponent scared to try it.
The only real way to de-gimmick front low is to mix in jC fake land Ex-Bite, jC fake land 623c for jumps, and I don't know what for backdash(IAD jC?). All in all it's kind of ridiculous and relies on you being quite good at reads.
Anyways, as per the high mixups, I've finally finished my experiments with 496. They are a semi-success. The mixup itself is kind of gimmicky and the spacing is very finnicky. But if you implement it right it's pretty damn solid. Especially if you're not afraid to mixup the spacing on standard backdash jC. Say, adapting it for high airthrows. 4756 itself is kind of shitty and slow, and 496 off of high airthrows is almost the exact same speed as standard jC backdash making it great to mix in occasionally if you don't want to deal with 4756's shittiness. The best way by far to improve your 4way though is to alter the spacing on backdash jC with longer walkups and earlier backdashes or shorter walkups and later backdashes. The problem with 496 is that off of lower airthrows it can be extremely slow and easy to see. So unless you think your opponent is fucking terrified, you shouldn't risk it off a low one and stick with mid/high. What should be kept in mind is that at higher levels some people can block oki on reaction if you get stale, which is why you have to be tricky with spacing and options to put the fear of god into them. That fear is going to make them fuck up, and it's what you're really going to be depending on.
Why did I make this post? It's not going to help anyone, aside from Ultima maybe. :emo:
Lol only 4 Sacchin players and 2 of them don't need any help.
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Make it 3.I have a much better understanding on this character these days.
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None that matter really. However, the front low is great for the occasional surprise and offending your opponent's intelligence. Though it's gimmicky, I wouldn't say it's a total waste of an option. Front low is best if you suspect high shield or react to it if you're some kind of superman. It will make the opponent scared to try it.
...except land behind 2B/C already covers that, and has a much more realistic chance of actually hitting them.
It's not really worth considering unless the opponent is in the corner, where it improves somewhat because:
1. You don't have the option of landing behind them.
2. Landing empty puts you at point blank range, where you'll eat the full brunt of any reversal attempt.
3. You can do IAD j.C instead of 2C after landing. Still in gimmick territory, but pretty damn confusing.
Another front-low option is to superjump from a spot where even you can't tell which side you're going to land on. It takes away your overheads, but it's still a 50-50 mixup so it isn't that bad.
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Another front-low option is to superjump from a spot where even you can't tell which side you're going to land on.
I must be netplaying too much then. Because I find j[C] fake land 2c midscreen will connect if I throw it out judiciously. And I have the exact opposite experience with high/low airthrow late/early sj mixup option. Damn thing is blocked almost 100% of the time. How you manage to confuse even yourself, I have no idea. So I may be doing it wrong.
:mystery:
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Another front-low option is to superjump from a spot where even you can't tell which side you're going to land on.
I must be netplaying too much then. Because I find j[C] fake land 2c midscreen will connect if I throw it out judiciously. And I have the exact opposite experience with high/low airthrow late/early sj mixup option. Damn thing is blocked almost 100% of the time. How you manage to confuse even yourself, I have no idea. So I may be doing it wrong.
:mystery:
I've superjumps from spots where I land j.C meaty as a crossup without doing anything. It'll just hit them on the way down and I'll land behind.
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Another front-low option is to superjump from a spot where even you can't tell which side you're going to land on.
I must be netplaying too much then. Because I find j[C] fake land 2c midscreen will connect if I throw it out judiciously. And I have the exact opposite experience with high/low airthrow late/early sj mixup option. Damn thing is blocked almost 100% of the time. How you manage to confuse even yourself, I have no idea. So I may be doing it wrong.
:mystery:
I've superjumps from spots where I land j.C meaty as a crossup without doing anything. It'll just hit them on the way down and I'll land behind.
Really? I've always wondered if that was possible but I could never get it to work.
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I must be netplaying too much then. Because I find j[C] fake land 2c midscreen will connect if I throw it out judiciously. And I have the exact opposite experience with high/low airthrow late/early sj mixup option. Damn thing is blocked almost 100% of the time. How you manage to confuse even yourself, I have no idea. So I may be doing it wrong.
It's not that it doesn't work. It's that it sucks compared to the other options available.
Which would you rather be forced to block at zero health; Kohaku j.C or Aoko 6[A]?
The difference here is about the same.
As for the front/back 2C mixup; it should generally only be used after a particularly high airthrow, where you're likely to land too far away for standard oki to work properly.
- vs Shikis, Satsuki, Warc, Necos (and to some extent; Arc, Hisuis):
Aim to land right on top of them. Precise timing doesn't matter, just get the positioning right. Throw in a jumpcancel and/or airdash too if necessary.
You can't bump into these characters while they're in the process of standing up, which means no matter how early or late arrive, you're always going to land where you aim unless you do it so stupidly late that they've already recovered by the time you get there.
This method works fine on other characters too, but you have to get there earlier so you land before their collision box rises high enough to interfere, otherwise you'll end up in front of them every time. - vs anyone else:
Aim to land barely behind them. If you go early you'll land behind them as usual, but if done late you'll bump into them and land in front. The trick is to time it right on the border between the two, the exact timing of which varies between characters.
I've superjumps from spots where I land j.C meaty as a crossup without doing anything. It'll just hit them on the way down and I'll land behind.
Unfortunately it's not really effective by itself. The opponent can block it by just holding 4 as normal. It's the attack that comes afterwards that's hard to deal with since it could come from either side depending on exactly where the j.C connected. Try to stagger the followup if they blocked it.
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I read through the few pages and can't seem to find strats on defending the 4-way. Mostly were tips on executing the 4-way. Sorry if this question has been repeated.
Honestly speaking, what are the best options to defending a 4-way. Blocking? I tend to block the wrong direction. I see the Japs prefer back dashing but its easy to end up dashing forward instead due to wrong directions. Dodge doesn't seem so effective as well.
Any suggestions?
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I read through the few pages and can't seem to find strats on defending the 4-way. Mostly were tips on executing the 4-way. Sorry if this question has been repeated.
Honestly speaking, what are the best options to defending a 4-way. Blocking? I tend to block the wrong direction. I see the Japs prefer back dashing but its easy to end up dashing forward instead due to wrong directions. Dodge doesn't seem so effective as well.
Any suggestions?
Good reaction time. That's it.
The whole point is for it to have a very small amount of time to react to. If it wasn't like that, Sacchin would be a much more terrible character (although she is already really lacking in a lot of areas so...).
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High block until you see her going another direction, thats about it.
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Something I'm kicking myself for not thinking of:
For okizeme against a character with a roll-dodge; tap 4/6Q in between j.C and the followup attack.
If j.C whiffs you get the throw. If j.C hits then the throw doesn't come out and you're free to combo off it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iWbmHpJvXRs#t=9m5s
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Something I'm kicking myself for not thinking of:
For okizeme against a character with a roll-dodge; tap 4/6Q in between j.C and the followup attack.
If j.C whiffs you get the throw. If j.C hits then the throw doesn't come out and you're free to combo off it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iWbmHpJvXRs#t=9m5s
stop finding more broken sacchin stuff ;_;
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Something I'm kicking myself for not thinking of:
For okizeme against a character with a roll-dodge; tap 4/6Q in between j.C and the followup attack.
If j.C whiffs you get the throw. If j.C hits then the throw doesn't come out and you're free to combo off it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iWbmHpJvXRs#t=9m5s
By the gods it is brilliant.
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too bad she doesnt get much from throwing :(
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too bad she doesnt get much from throwing :(
Normally I just do backdash jC, and if I see a roll I throw out 5aaaaaaa I always fail to hitconfirm that though.
:'(
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Something I'm kicking myself for not thinking of:
For okizeme against a character with a roll-dodge; tap 4/6Q in between j.C and the followup attack.
If j.C whiffs you get the throw. If j.C hits then the throw doesn't come out and you're free to combo off it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iWbmHpJvXRs#t=9m5s
I had no idea what he was talking about,until I realized,I do this usually.But not for roll dodge characters.
Neat :toot:
Edit:If you want more for the throw, buffer the 632146C off the jC.
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It shouldn't be used against characters with normal dodges.
Time-wise; the recovery of a normal dodge overlaps with hitstun.
Dodge makes j.C whiff, but they'll eat the follow-up anyway unless you press it way too early. Throwing in this situation is a waste of a free combo.
It's good specifically for rolling dodges, since their movement and longer duration causes the j.C follow-up to completely whiff too. Inserting the throw input is insurance against this.
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I'm bored, let's pool our bite setups:
[blockstring], late 5c, 214a whiff, exbite
2a2[c] (on block), walkup, exbite. The 2[c] increases their blockstun but your recovery stays the same. Then your walkup doesn't become enormous and you don't have to whiff cancel. Eew reverse beat.
{} = may or may not be needed
{2a}5b5a (blockstring), {walkup}, exbite
IAD jC (blocked or whiffed), {walkup}, exbite
IAD jC (blocked or whiffed), 2a (blocked or whiff), {walkup}, exbite
2a (blocked), exbite
Almost all of these depend on having trained your opponent to block and the fact that you can start pressure up again during walkup with a simple 2a, 5c, 2b, or 2c. 5B is risky due to start up vulnerability. Don't get stale. Watch out for reversal heat and EX. Remember to make them pay for jump outs, sj airthrow, 623c, etc. This will keep them on the ground for your setups.
Also, for 5C anti-air clash, what do I do if the opponent uses an extra jump to jump out of the clash, or if I suspect they will do so? 214a? 5a? 22b?
Edit: Choco says shield bunker or instant airthrow. I did some testing, I think 5B is pretty good too.