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Author Topic: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero  (Read 10579 times)

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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« on: March 17, 2009, 02:54:34 PM »
So I've been chatting it up with JM recently, trying to squeeze out bits of info and news on Ver.A Aoko...The man is insane. He just....knows stuff.

Since he's such a cool dude and so eager to share his discoveries, techniques and community info I figured I should/would share with the other (two) Aoko users out there that may express the same interests. Even if you will probably never see Ver.A in your life it's still cool stuff to know and ponder about (as this is my current situation). Plus it will help you understand what's going on in those match vids.

I will divide the random bits and pieces of info by System Type (Full, Half, Crescent Moons) in no particular order. Info will likely consist of changes, combos, move properties, glitches & bugs, and possibly strats dictated to me by Jeffrey-san. There may also be some speculations (ie THEORY FIGHTINNNG) by me to offer some incite. Feel free to discuss anything related to the posts below.



Best of the Best

So apparently Jeff-san favors Full Moon Aoko over the other two modes of play. We went into minor details about this (in which he proceeded to send me a vid of him being lame and raping foolz) and I plan to harass him for a detailed explanation as to why F precedes H and C next time we chat.

Z:
which Aoko do you feel is strongest in Ver.A
Z:
C, H, F?
JM:
F!F!F!
JM:
F>H>>>C


So as you may see from above, C is pretty much buns by his standards. ( 3 >'s?! oh, come on  :-\ ). Regardless of what he says I still like the style of C and believe that she may have more tools that need to be explored and developed (...just don't tell him I said that). Jeffrey does however state that he selects different Moons based on match up.

Z:
So you like F best. Do you ever switch to C or H vs certain characters?
Z:
Or do you feel F has best advantage in all matches?
JM:
VS Arc, H is [the] best style.
VS Shiki Tohno, H or F.
JM:
H is weak when Aoko down, but H Aoko's "turtling" is very strong.
JM:
VS Mech Hisui, H
JM:
VS Sion, C


H
Tohno (F), Arc, MH
C
Sion



Full Moon

From the vid he sent me this style appears to be all mana spam and zoning mixed with CH fishing. It's similar to Aoko's normal playstyle but when she downs you things start to get ridiculous.

Changes & Fixes

  • Auto Artillery Rain Bug removed -- I wonder if any JP Aokos found something solid for this in ver.1 even though its gone now
  • BE4C -- Now induces instant knockdown on airborne opponent. No more funky ground bound combox.

Combo
  • Cornered opponent>6E>623C (lol)
  • Midscreen>2C>3C>JBC>JC>214C>BE5C(1)>214A (hold a bit?)>JAB>JBC>throw (...yeah)

Jeff Tech
  • "EX236 is very strong." -- "Invincibility & attack goes out without fail. ". Sounds like "spam it!!11!" to me.
  • IAD>Air dash>JB -- Man this shit looks brutal now. She has this technique in AC but now it kinda hard to see...esp. with BLUE FIYAH (214C) covering your ass. What aoko does is low airdash then immediate airdash again causing her to "linger" in the air a bit longer than usual. The opponent will likely expect her to have dropped to the ground by then and begin to crouch guard early in which the JB lands. I'm assuming this is to be mixed in with a single IAD and/or djC.
  • 214C (aka BLUE FIYAH) -- please spam. especially vs cornered opponents. JM ran slider strings (41236) and canceled into BF when guarded then proceeded to mixup with dj's, empty jumps, empty jump>late airdash and so forth.



Half Moon

This moon was jumped by a biker gang and they all had nerf bats.

Changes & Fixes

  • Two Jumps Only -- This wasn't necessary. Damage is significantly weakened now.
  • BE4C no longer ground bounds airborne target -- Ok, this makes sense so why remove a jump? All her damage came from ground based kakato loops.
  • 236B>236A>236A GONE -- Thank you. This was a stupid ass idea from the start. 3500 damage...riiiight. Glad I don't have to worry about getting scrubbed out by this move ever.

Combo
  • Corner>6E>2A>2A>3C -- Saw this in a match vid. Not sure if this was in ver.1 but who cares anyway. Timing looks pretty tight. *I think JM says this can be done only on Len / WLen
*
  • 2A>2A>5B>5A>6A>6A>2A>2C>5A(miss)>6A>6A>BE5C>3C>JC>hjc>JAJBJC -- Good lord. hjc = high jump cancel
  • 5A>6A>6A>5A>2C>2A(miss)>5A>2C>5C>3C>etc. -- This and the above kakato combo are said to be very effective against akiha.

Jeff Tech

  • "H is weak when Aoko down, but H Aoko's turtling is very strong." -- That's all I got right now lol.



Crescent Moon

This moon is believed to be the weakest of the 3 according to Jeff-san. He goes on to say that the system does not compliment all aspects of Aoko's play style, namely turtling/camping which is a crucial part to one side of her gameplay.

Changes & Fixes
  • 236B>236A>236A Also removed -- good riddance.
  • 4C Bounds airborne target -- whoa boy, this is MAJOR. She has some mean ass loops with this which are explained in the combo portion . 4C is also untechable on the bound. I forgot to ask I ground pass is possible on landing.
  • 4C 25f -- I can't remember how fast it was in AC. I just posted this here as a reference and will come backt to it later
  • 421C (EX421) spawning-lock bug -- When JM explained this to me it pretty much sealed the deal as to which moon I will be maining and C is it! When Aoko performs 421C a super flash appears and she executes a 421A orb. While held (holding A, B, and/or C buttons), Aoko can "shift" the orb to several positions (x, y axis only. no diagonals) until the number of shifts expires then it can no longer be moved afterward. The shifting corresponds with how the lever is moved when holding the orb out: 8 moving up, 6 moving forward, etc. .Diagonal inputs will also shift the orb around too but only in 8, 6, 2, 4 directions ALSO the orb will shift repeatedly when a direction is held. Trying to make use of a constantly shifting orb during mid-pressure and setups can be quite a pain to manage. This is where the "locking" bug comes in handy: Jeffrey explains that as the 421C orb is forming you release then press and hold the button again before it fully spawns.. The result will be the orb fixing its position at that point and will not shift again. He goes on to say that this can be done at any point before you trigger the bug. So you can shift to your desired potion (the orb "respawns" each time you shift) then lock it in place whenever. The bonus to this: 421C orbs function as (J)214C orbs now, launching the target AND leaves them in untechable state. This has really silly potential.  :psyduck: **"Spawn-Lock Bug" is not the official name. It's something I made up that best describes the action and effects of the bug.**
  • 421C has 214C properties now -- Ok, now I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure this was added in ver.A because I don't recall it being in ver.1 as I remember testing it for hit properties. It was one of the things that pissed me off about that EX at the time.
Combo
  • Same corner throw combo as H (len / wlen only?)
  • (Stand only?) 6A > 6B > burst(421A orb) > 623B 236B> BEJ214A> dash > 4C > 623B 236B > jc > BEJ214A > dash > 4C > 623B > 236B > jc > BEJC > JAJB > JAJBJC > air throw --  :o :o :o :o :o . OOOOKaaay there, Jeffrey. jc = jump cancel in this case. The [ jc > ] was not in his original post but it doesn't make sense if it wasn't there since you cannot interrupt Aoko's 623B 236 finisher without using a jump. I could be wrong though. From the looks of it the BEJ214's will likely have to be dj tk'd from the 623B finisher on hit. The launch property sends the target pretty high up there and induces a LONG air untechable window. The 4C's ground bounce in which you cancel into 623B 236 that hits and juggles before the target's landing. Sweeeeet. He says he wants to make a vid of it but his exe isn't quite up there yet for a perfect run.

Jeff Tech

  • Use F

« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 09:17:33 AM by Zartacus! »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Psylocke

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2009, 04:48:16 PM »
Nice info on FMoon, there were a lack of videos(and other resources) concerning that style

Interestingly enough, there's a couple of recent Jeffrey Manson videos on nico, and he seems to only be using Crescent in those
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‹ HalVegas2 › how do you compare those two ‹ sphy › every time you touch someone in mb it turns into a BRUTALITY

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2009, 05:42:11 PM »
Hahaha links or it didn't happen. I really want the links so I can jokingly msg him with bold うそつきいいいい!!  :'( . Just to see if he denies it's him.
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

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‹ Tatari|JE › I have another friend who would play MB if it was "less like Mortal Kombat"
‹ HalVegas2 › how do you compare those two ‹ sphy › every time you touch someone in mb it turns into a BRUTALITY

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 07:58:06 PM »
Thank you, sir.

First link is not too recent (2009年01月28日). I believe JM has been entering a bunch of tourneys since then and of course you wont see everything on nico and youtube. The second one however is very recent.

That match vs Sion looked a  lot similar to how the Aoko v Ciel match up was played in MBAC. Set orbs and wait it out, Hi jumps/dj's to get over projectiles and scout for an opening from above (if not then retreat), shield projectiles for meter and I'm willing to bet he would have blasted Sion with an AD had he been in max to punish the gun shots. He was basically playing uber turtley and safe.

I honestly don't know why he didnt just shoot it out with Sion using F or H. It looked as if he was really struggling that match...Hell, I'd call the victory a lucksack at the end. He says he prefers C in that matchup (as seen in the first post) but I dunno really lol.

I'll link JM next time to discuss the match up in-depth cus I'm curious as to how the match is supposed to go down.

Thanks.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 07:59:45 PM by ZARtacus! »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Benny1

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 01:27:13 PM »
H-Moon lost triple AND 4[C] groundbounce?  That's tragic, I loved 4[C] groundbounce.  I haven't really seen much good Aoko play since Ver.A, it's a shame.
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Offline Ultima66

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 02:07:25 PM »
4C was faster than 25f in MBAC. Although this means that they may have made it actually comboable out of without using a held orb.

And it's kind of weird that her 421C orb is an EX with EX properties but is still the same size as her normal orb. Well, assuming the hitbox is fine, there's no reason it can't look like that, but it's a little weird.

Offline kilvear

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 03:34:24 AM »
man am I getting out of touch with Aoko?

what is 6E for full moon?

Offline Zetsubou

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 03:31:41 PM »

Since he's such a cool dude and so eager to share his discoveries, techniques and community info I figured I should/would share with the other (two) Aoko users out there that may express the same interests.


(makes me wonder who are these other (two) aoko users  :mystery:)
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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 07:32:19 PM »
first i wanna say
glad to see you're still around and into aoko zar...haven't been to mage chan and seen you there in god knows how long
second...
what the, F>H>C from JM...dam I did not see that one coming
this is some juicy info, didn't know about the IAD > airdash > j.B thing...really want to try it lol

well i guess it's good that h aoko can still heel combo ppl...to a certain extent...that was the first drawing point i saw that i liked about her rofl

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Offline Diar

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2009, 01:05:35 AM »
I'm glad your still around ZAR!! SoCal is very very fortunate to have Ver A. in the arcades. Just got back from playing it and I seriously need to play melty blood again. Once again, I have to relearn everything again.

Offline scottind

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2009, 08:44:01 AM »
i probably played you last night

Offline Ultima66

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2009, 01:49:18 PM »


From the PS2 screenshots. C Aoko 236C now works like Blue Fire? This looks like it could be really good.

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 11:11:03 PM »
Are you sure that's blue fire and not w/e F-Aoko 236C is called?  I don't think blue fire hits full screen awayy
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Offline Ultima66

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 11:12:41 PM »
Are you sure that's blue fire and not w/e F-Aoko 236C is called?  I don't think blue fire hits full screen awayy
I didn't say it was blue fire and it's Crescent. Also F Aoko 236C doesn't look like that.

Apparently it's 236D.

Offline Rowanism

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2009, 05:24:25 PM »
It's such a simple screenshot yet it's so awesome.
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Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2009, 06:49:03 PM »
Random Jeff Tech

Some Full Moon info JM passed on to me last time we chatted MB:

Combox

Sheild Counter > 5A > 2C > 63214B > 5A > 2C > 63214B > 5A > 2C > 22A > JBJC~
Apparently Aoko has a "Slider Loop" (63214) after landing just a simple Shield Counter. He mentioned that it was character specific or the range of difficulty varies between characters- I didn't get a chance to clarify before he left but I'll be sure to ask next time.

or, JBJC > JC > JEX214 > 5A2C~
The loop can also be started off a jumping ex orb combo. That's pretty damn sweet. I'm a dummy for not trying these combos last time I was at CF (even if it is ver1).

236B(CH)> 2B > 5C > JBJC> JC> JEX214> BE5C(1) > 2C > 22A > JAJC > JBJC > 623B
We briefly discussed comp value for some of aoko's specials. He says that 236B has no prorate and he likes this combo or something. Damage is 5k-ish.


623A vs 6239A/6237A
This bit of info really got me interested in F-Aoko more...


Zar says:
how is F-aoko 623A compared to C/H-aoko 623A.
Zar says:
can F-aoko use 623A like MBAC aoko (strike opponent out of air)
JM says:
6239A is justice       < he really said this
JM says:
6237A is beautiful     < ...this too. no joke
Zar says:
does 'tiger knee' 623 change when in the air?
JM says:
Yeah, tiger knee!         < cool, he knew wtf I was talking about
Tiger knee is very strong because,
JM says:
Tiger knee is invalid to Air Guard
Zar says:
WOWWWW               < I type "wowww" for everything
JM says:
and,
JM says:
jump(4F)+Tiger knee(5F)
JM says:
On the ground, 623A = 9F
JM says:
so
JM says:
623A < Tiger knee
Zar says:
hahaha thank you for that bit of infomation :D
JM says:
tiger knee hosei 90%
623A hosei 70%            < talking about prorate/compensation value (Thanks, Tropsy!)


So in summary:
  • 623A (9f) and TK623A (jump = 4f + command = 5f) Have the same start up
  • TK623A is air unblockable
  • TK623A 90% Compensation Value as opposed to 623A's 70% meaning more damage on CH followups w/ TK
  • 623A < Tiger knee which is also justice/beautiful depending on which version of the TK is used


...And I just realized I copy/pasted over some other information I had by accident as I was typing this...  :slowpoke:

Gold star for me.

I do remember JM mentioning something about KAMONE though. It's sort of like a fuzzy guard similar to say Warc's jB(1) > Air dash > jB(2) (The example he gave) but not a true fuzzy like say Aoko's Iad > jC > djC. If anyone can break down what "KAMONE" actually means I'd appreciate the info.

With F-Aoko:
deep jC > dj > airdash [676 likely] > jA
He was pretty hype about trying this at the next a-cho event lol. Says that it's 17~18f iirc (from jC to jA). That's a bit faster than most ground based overheads from what I can remember. Blue Fire cover would probably be the easiest way to set this up. Also I think it's safe to assume that all Full Moon jA's hit overhead (wasn't it like this pre-react FT?).

I'm too busy ranting about the info I just deleted so until next time...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 06:56:21 PM by ZARtacus! »
zar are you even aware that your attitude is what drove people off in the first place. i think zar's attitude is worse than all of that. cause neither of you guys mean anything. but zar can poison shit around him. zar's the one that gets personal online and does realtalk that's out of line.

Offline Tonberry

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 10:55:30 PM »
Sheild Counter > 5A > 2C > 63214B > 5A > 2C > 63214B > 5A > 2C > 22A > JBJC~
Apparently Aoko has a "Slider Loop" (63214) after landing just a simple Shield Counter. He mentioned that it was character specific or the range of difficulty varies between characters- I didn't get a chance to clarify before he left but I'll be sure to ask next time.

This sounds sexyyyyyyyyyy.  Did he tell you how much damage it does?
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Offline Diar

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Re: Ver.A Aoko & the ridiculousness that is JeffreyManson@Ero
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2009, 09:45:29 PM »
Awesome some Full moon combos I can practice with. Thanks for informing us with god like JM strategies  :teach: