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Author Topic: MBAC: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.  (Read 14522 times)

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Offline Shinjin

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work in progress

Strengths:

- Good Damage
- Good Specials
- BunkerCancel of the Year
- Has the hoe-slapping-punch (5A)

Weaknesses:

- No pressure
- Sucky Crossup-abilities
- Crappy AA

BnBs:

prenote: if you are to far away, the 2B will mess up the combo, so only add it if you start the combo real close to your opponent.

midscreen
2A 2B 5B 5C 2C 6C, airthrow (the basic one)
or
2A 2B 5B 5C 2C 6C, jC 623B 236B (for extra damage)
or
2A 5B 5C 2C 2B, airthrow (for slightly better okizeme, lol okizeme with Kouma)

antiair-EXshield-hoeSlappingPunch-counterhit-combo
5D, 5A, dash, 5B 2B, airthrow

cornercombos
2A 2B 5B 5C 236C 5A, airthrow
cornercombo with bloodheat
2A 2B 5B 5C 2C, dash, (OTG) 2A 2A 2A 2B 5C 41236C (yes, otg anotherarc)

* of course you can start all of these combos from jC or at least definitely from j[C]
[C] = BEC = CHARGED C

Okizeme:

Well, Kouma doesn't relly have that much to offer when it comes okizeme, but there ARE things you can at least try to do.

1. Highjump, AirBackdash, jC. Sometimes people fall for it, but usually it is pretty risky, or not worth it.
2. 8, then j[C], time it so that the j[C] will never actually hit, and then land for a 2Hit. Ppl fear the j[C] and love to trying to shield it = 2A HIT! Or you can try to get the 214A if you are lucky.
3. 5[C], this is also one of those that the opponent might fall for under pressured situations. the 5[C] is unblockable, but you can Shield or Backdash it with relative ease. Nevertheless it might work for you occasionally.
4. 2A, the scrubby classic, but do like 2A, 2B 214B for a tickthrow.

The Specials that are to die for:

214A -> fast, shortrange-throw that you can combo from in corners (214A, hold4, (5B 2B)/(5A) airthrow. on some chars you can land 2C for OTG but i dont know on who unfortunately).
214B -> longer reach than 214A, same followups. Can be used as a kind of tickthrow.
214C -> best used as a bunkercancel move. Same speed as 214A, same reach as 214B = one mean ass throw

236C -> alot of clashframes, can be used as a killingpoke, but not really that useful. A/Versions suck, dont use them.

623A/B/C -> your DP of choice, but if you want to use it as safety messures, you are better off with:

22C -> grants you temporary superarmor and you can do the standard 5B 2B, airthrow combo on aircounterhit. This is his only "safe" AA.

22B -> The kinda1hitSuperarmor dashmove... not really that useful, but I've used it successfully on some occasions. Use with caution, punishable.

BH 41236C -> the throwsuper of great satisfaction.

BH jD(ex) -> well, his LastArc gets unleashed if you successfully EX-Shield while in Air. Decent damage, but heat is best used to gain life so, use it if you get the chance.

How to Play

I'll probably put more effort into this part later, but for please be satisfied with these basic tips:

1. 5B is your groundpoke, if it hits use 5C 2C 6Followup, cause even though you advance a little bit by doing 5B, you often hit when you are far away so any 2B-attempts will probably fail.
2. 2A 2A, dash 214A can sometimes work.
3. As antiair you have:
 3. 1. - EX-Shield, 5A
 3. 2. - 22C
 3. 3. - 2B (only with correct spacing and vs the correct characters. Don't even try vs chars like Nanaya or Ren)
4. His AirToAir is sucky, his only decent airmove is jC if you are above your opponent, and jB can with certain spacing be decent.
5. Play safe, block alot and if you have the chance do a bunkercancel (214C is to be preferred) for great satisfaction.

Rejoice.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 12:31:28 PM by XieXie »
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Offline Sp00ky

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2007, 02:54:04 PM »
I wouldn't call his Anti Air crappy by any stretch of the imagination. 2B is an AMAZING anti air normal and a staple of any good Kouma's game. And as far as vs nanaya and others you'd be surprised how often it can beat them clean unless they decide to use something like jumping and putting his C out there mega early, which works sometimes but is parry bait on repeated use.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 02:55:41 PM by Sp00ky »

Offline COD3player

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 12:16:36 PM »
Under strengths, you forgot to mention that he has the funniest death cry in the game: GUUUUOOOOOOOAAAAAA!!!!!!!! lol But really though, he's not lacking in the anti-air department. The 2B has a nice hitbox and hits at good angle to make it the anti-air of choice.
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Offline Shinjin

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 12:38:24 PM »
Well, I perhaps exaggerated his AA, but I truly think that 2B is very situational vs Nanaya and Ren (which have been the characters I've been playing the most recently). Even looking at Japanese Koumas playing vs Nanaya, you don't see the Kouma throwing out the 2B, it's just to dangerous so it is better to take other countermeasures.

But versus other characters I certainly recommend using 2B, it does have a great angle.

Oh, and bunkercancelling with him is the shit. I don't think that I really emphasized it enough  ::)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 01:20:56 AM by Shinjin »
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Offline POPNWAFFLES

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2007, 06:53:43 PM »
anyone have any tips for fighting nero with kouma, and sachin?

Offline Zaido

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2007, 01:31:50 PM »
anyone have any tips for fighting nero with kouma, and sachin?

Kouma: Dunk!
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Offline Mad Tea Party

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2007, 03:47:29 PM »
I learned this guy for a tournament (that probably never happened at linalys's place), but here are some of the things I do that you can laugh at:

Sweep, whiff 214A, meaty ch C (pretty useless since you can see the ch c from a mile away)
BnB -> delayed 6C (use this when the BnB is blocked and you might counter something, or get parried and die)
Air throw, land, 22C (waste of meter, but you're guaranteed a throw or hit with that ~4 seconds of super armor)

Retarded MTP combo:
some ground combo, 236B, Arc Drive (must be close for him to grab)

Offline S-Blade

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2007, 09:56:44 PM »
A couple things I noticed/found out while practicing with Kouma in PS2 AC:

As far as being in the corner, I find it a little hard to get them close enough to 623A, and 623B is sort of slow....but if they're playing cautiously and keeping enough distance to be far enough away from both, you can 5[C] to throw them off (and if they are playing cautious they'd probably be sitting there trying to block as well) and then 5A -> airthrow off that. It's only 2k damage (on shiki) but it gets you out of the corner and them into it.

j.C -> j.236A/B -> 236A/B has nice pushback power and fair damage. Good if you need to heat activate, I guess (they can tech forward right into you but they'll get smacked by heat activation and be even farther). 623A/B -> 236A/B doesn't, though. They can forward tech and end up behind you, or 2C depending on their range, though. I guess if you're stuck on the ground then you'll have to live with 623A/B or 22C (which I still don't like because depending on where you dash they can airrecover toward you [not forward] and land right in your face with a j.C or something) but if you can land a j.C and follow it up, then you end up in a pretty safe situation.

I've sort of been trying 214B okizeme after an airthrow...the timing is a little weird, but I think it'd be better than 5[C] just because it isn't as obvious to see coming and leads to more damage/options (you can follow up with 236C or just 2 or 4 if you want) I'm NOT sure if you can break 5[C] by just throwing 2As once you get up, though. I know it works against 214B, though >_<

And lastly, I've been toying with groundcombo -> 6C -> j.C -> land -> dash forward and crossup with 2B or something. I can't get anything good off of it yet >_>

Questions, though: Do people usually groundtech after a j.236A/B 236A/B? They get sent flying toward the ground pretty fast....but I can see some serious 214A/B forward-tech punishing. And....Kouma OTG....does it exist? lol

EDIT: Just adding....I realized that since 214B okizeme after an airthrow can be stuffed by at least some 2As and 5As, you actually can step back a bit and use 5[C] to be safer. Probably best to use 214B first and then once they start throwing out shit start backing up and go 5[C], or if they are throwing out blank 5As or 2As, go into BnB or something. IF 5B can hit from that far away. Not sure.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 05:34:43 PM by S-Blade »
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Offline Smoke Master

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2007, 05:52:40 PM »
Here's a nice cornercombo(need 200.00 circuit or more):

j[C]-> 2B, 5B, 5C, 2C, 236C, 5A, 623C (5500-6500)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 06:01:56 PM by Smoke Master »

Offline fullmetalross

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2007, 08:53:23 PM »
I made a few kouma replays for MBAC pc and as soon as Arly tells me how to link to the 7zip file I'll show you what i got... But here is a text sneak peek.

1. Koumach - Better version of the counter hit combo, ends with an EX but you can do either a regular 623 combo or an airthrow

2. Koumachmax - For now the most damage I could figure out how to get off of an air counterhit.

3. Koumathrowcombo - this shows the best (easiest and good damage) combo off of Kouma's 214a, if you throw them into the corner you can follow up, it first shows around where the wrong distance starts and then shows around the spot where the max distance is. If you are at the wrong distance there are a few ways to setup a ground cross up or just go for an airthrow... (like the other combo you can go for a regular 623combo but the airthrow is kinda distance specific.

4. Koumatrhowcombomax - if you are closer to the corner you can get this, I doubt this is really the most damage cause you can probably link a ground super into standing a into air super, but this is the most practical.

I will update when I can link you guys to the replays!

Offline S-Blade

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 10:33:29 PM »
2. Koumachmax - For now the most damage I could figure out how to get off of an air counterhit.

Let me guess: 2c 5c 2b j.236C? :P

Although 2c after 22c grounded counterhit is haaarrrdd (but still doable). I go for 5c2b airthrow off 214a/b wallslam/5[c]/22c CH/air CH (it's all the fucking same XD) just because it's the most practical ;p

And the 5a2b in the corner combo (w/e -> 236c -> 5a2b -> airthrow/combo).....the window for the 5a is two frames (according to Veteru anyway). Practice that shit.
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Offline fullmetalross

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2007, 10:55:31 PM »
actually no....

it's 2b (aircounter hit), [C] 5c, throw into corner, 5c, 6c jump, double jump, C xx 623c

And yeah I know about that corner combo, I tried it, its hard for sure, I'll try and get a replay of that too so people can see it. The stuff I posted was just stuff that seemed semipractical cause the thread hadn't been updated in awhile and I just wanted to show some other stuff you can do.


Edits of doom: http://www.meltybread.com/fullmetalross/ go their download zip file (sorry vet no 7zip) extract kouma replays folder, move other folders into your replays directory in MBAC pc and then go watch said replays, YAYYYYY.

ps - Thanks for your time.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 01:53:50 AM by fullmetalross »

Offline Tropsy

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2007, 10:14:22 AM »
Just wanted to say I doubt the window is 2 frames. I haven't actually measured it or anything, but I can do it pretty consistently and I'm sure my timing can't be that precise.

Just to show that I'm not just bullshitting, here's a replay of me doing it a few times in a row (which did not involve 9000 years of rerecording, in fact I only screwed up a couple times, and it was due to other things, not the 5a link). The right replay is rep03, rep00 is just an extra.

Offline fullmetalross

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2007, 02:46:36 PM »
yeah, I agree its pretty easy with some practice. The way harder one is linking tk ex dp kick into j.C it's possible but it's really specific timing and distance. There is a match were some kouma player does it to another player pretty crazy. I haven't been able to successfully get a replay of it sadly.

Offline S-Blade

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2007, 03:08:49 PM »
maybe you're underestimating yourself ;o

I've seen elsewhere that it was 4-5ish but I think that was ver.a info so it might have been changed slightly :x

I was surprised too when I heard it was 2 frames, but I wasn't doubting it as it is pretty tight.
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Offline RoboDuk

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2007, 03:28:50 PM »
I have to admit its the hardest kouma combo ive worked on by far, it seems the 5c timing is merciless but the payoff is worth it. The counter2 2b combo is very nice, and suprisingly easy but i dunno how practical it is since theres merely a handful of moves you'll be in 2b range of hitting.

so i guess overall its best to just stick to the 5c>2b>air combo for the most part, unless there's any particular moves i should looking to stuff to combo into that grab.

is the aerial comet really as bad as people let on? i can see the odd comet to bait a forward tech into 236a/c being useful but i cant really comment on practicality against actual opponents
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 04:07:36 PM by RoboDuk »

Offline roseille

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 11:02:30 PM »
Alright, admittedly, I suck bawls for not being able to do an airthrow, but I'd like to know if it's better than the j.623 in combos.

Speaking of AT(airthrow), I've tried 96AT, 9AT, but I keep whiffing. I don't get to practice that much since it's my friend's game. Am I screwing up the timing or what? He's posting the vids soon(ish). I can link them when they're up. I've gotten a little better since then, and I actually beat him a fair amount now. All thanks to this forum AWWWW

Offline RoboDuk

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2007, 08:45:38 AM »
After playing about and checking match vids yes it is better to air throw in nearly all instances, air throw will ground your opponent allowing you to maintain the initiative as you are on top of them as they get up. j.236 allows your opponent to tech in near safety and should only really be used for the kill or to squeeze as much damage as you can if you need it.

As for whiffing the throw it is slightly different to usual airthrows in that you cant just mash it and connect since kouma has no air combos, the airthrow will be easier to land at the peak of his jump and you need to press a direction as well at ab (so 6a+b or 4a+b)

Offline roseille

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Re: Kishima Kouma, the man with the the hoe-slapping-punch.
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2007, 04:59:34 PM »
Ok, thanks. I'll just work on it next time I play.