Melty Bread Forums
Atlas Academy => Melty Blood: Act Cadenza => Kouma Kishima => : S-Blade September 09, 2007, 10:43:33 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
-
September 29, 20 days after guide has been started: This guide is, for all intents and purposes, done. It'll take forever to actually find matchup information for every single character, so this is...done.
Introduction:
Kouma....is a manly man. Instead of having a high-low mixup, teleport/spindance mixup, or any other gimmick, he gets the 3D fighter mixup: Hit, Throw, Counter/Shield/Parry. As a character, he suffers from the same one-air-move syndrome as Satsuki, but makes up for it with his solid ground game. At a low level of play, he's an easy character because of simpler, easier combos to help you ease into the game with your shitty execution skills, yet, at a medium and high level of play, turns everything around by being the only character with a real usable command throw that can turn an opponent's (usually) most safe option, blocking, into a dangerous way to eat 3k and die. His normals are on the slow side, but they have many other advantages that make up for it. You might like Kouma if you like Makoto or maybe even Potemkin.
Kouma's biggest strength: Command throws. Enough said.
Kouma's biggest weakness: Because his combos are so few hits, they're easy as hell to mash to reduce the damage of. This can completely turn Kouma's great damage into pathetic attempts depending on if your opponent has gotten used to the MBAC PC mash timing yet :V
Move by Move
Normals
5A
The hoe slapper. Kouma's 5A is fairly slow for a 5A, but it has a pretty unique hitbox. Imagine an arc starting at his waist, going out and arcing back and ending at his head. Like....a bitchslap. That's where it hits, and because it arcs to where he can hit stuff directly above him, he can hit other jump-ins that a lot of other characters might have trouble with. It's more useful in hitting dashovers, though. When you're getting up and maybe VAkiha is doing her trademark dashover dashback, or Satsuki is doing jump over, double jump up, dashback j.C, give them the bitchslap that they're just asking for.
2A
Your standard 2A. This doesn't hit low. This, in combination of a slow 2C, is why Kouma has near zero high-low mixup. The only reason you use it in the first place is because it has more range than 5A and doesn't miss crouchers.
In your combos, don't use more than 2 2As in the opener if you can (as always). Open with 1 if you're able to hitconfirm it, because a single 2A staggers nicer :V
5B
Facepalm. It's slow. It's slow. It's slow. A slow poke that moves you forward and has good clash frames. If you see them pressing buttons, whiffed something with a lot of recovery, or any situation where you get a free hit, pull this out and combo. The thing is, because it reaches so far, there are more of those "hey free hit" situations than you'd think, but you need to adjust your combo depending on how far they are. More on this later. The clash frames on this move are probably the best ones he has readily available, so use them when you start to smell a heat activate.
2B
Kouma's anti air. It looks sorta like that anti-air grabby thing that Potemkin does. It's pretty good as AA, but it takes a little while to learn how to use it because....it's slow. Gotta time it a little differently, sorta. :S As a poke, it's inferior to 5B because some characters can crouch under it at certain distances (FUCKING CAT). If you clash with 5B, don't follow up with 2B if you think they'll go for the 2As, as you'll likely just completely miss them and get combo'd.
5C
Some kind of....palm smack. It's faster than 5B, but has more recovery and less reach, so use your judgement to what you might want to poke with. Usually 5B works, but when you need speed, you need speed. The problem with using 5C as a regular poke is that you get reverse beat penalty for going down to 5B2B.
5[C]
Not too much use. Less damage than your command throw, and does pretty much the same thing but has tons more range. But I still can't think of a situation where you have the time to charge it, you need the extra range, you're outside of a combo, and that extra range is actually enough. Maybe if Hisui is busy preparing a picnic with chairs :V Or Kohaku is hiding in that fucking spinny plant. However, as a stagger move, it's alright but it's got one major advantage and one major disadvantage. The good part: It's got the best range out of all of Kouma's normals minus 6C, and it's a fast unblockable. The bad part: It wallslams them behind you, and this usually does more bad than good.
2C
A swipe. Note that this move does not hit when very close. However, it's so close that the only time it applies is when the opponent is in the air. This makes following up an air CH with 2C 5C 2B whatever more difficult than it needs to be. Try it if you're Japanese or something. The other thing about this move is that it hits pretty low. You don't get any Tohno or Akiha 2C ridiculousness here, you get a VSion 2C (which is also a swipe).
2[C]
Some extra range, and you step forward a bit, and some FIIIIYAAAAAAHHH (use this as a regular stagger move like how NAC's dragonfoot is so good at doing)
6C
Kouma's launcher. Moves him forward quite a bit. Don't use it outside of a combo...unless....you stagger it (which is still sort of inside a combo....inside the chain, outside the combo). Give them a block string, and pause slightly before the 6C ender so they unblock and throw something out or whatever and end up flying up for a free dunk for a knockdown and some extra damage. Very useful to stagger, but once they start blocking that, exploit their decision to keep blocking by dropping the 6C and whiff cancelling with 5A and dashing in to keep up the pressure.
j.A
Not really useful because of crap range. Go for the dunk.
j.B
Fairly useful at beating jump-ins. Think Satsuki j.B, but barely decent as an air normal. Tradeoff? It's better than j.C for air-to-air more often than not (although a landed j.C on air opponent, even without counter hit, is usually a free knockdown to land then jump back up and dunk). Oh, and since his air normals suck you'll actually use this fairly often despite how bleh it is.
j.C
His best air-to-ground, but pretty slow, even for a j.C. Follow this up with dash-in and combo, or a farther range combo (drop 2b).
His ground throw
Don't bother.
His air throw dunk
Two points
Specials and Supers
236A/B: Triple Sentenced Wisdom
1st and 2nd hits go farther with B version, 3rd hit is overhead and either goes backward on A version or forward on B version. Watch out, you can still completely miss with the B version, even though it doesn't look like it, if your opponent is crouching you'll just end up going over them. A version for first hit isn't so great, but B version sends you FAR and works as a poke and is great for pushing them into the corner and an extra 1.5k and a knockdown if they don't tech it (it usually isn't because it's rarely used but....watch out). These are staggerable, as well. This is useful for, say, first two hits, then pause to bait the low attack and then use A version for the third hit to dodge hit them with an overhead. In a lot of situations, if the first hit completely misses for whatever reason (teleported away or something) it's smart to use B version and follow through all the way so that you cover a lot of distance in a short time to gtfo before they spank you instead of sitting there and eating a lot of recovery time. There's also a little bit of superarmor on the 1st and 2nd hits of this move. Lastly, the third hit (the one where he jumps) can completely hit air at stupid times and it's sort of random, but happens most with the B version ender. They're sitting there blocking low (not in the corner), and you use B version ender and instead of them eating an overhead, you fucking go over them and get punished while they LOL. This can also happen when they're actually getting hit, in which they will LOL even harder. A version is a bit safer just because, but like mentioned, it will completely hit air sometimes. Anyway, this is nice as a long-range poke that you can use and (if you're feeling lucky, punk) you can get all three hits for a knockdown that probably pushes them into the corner. However....the first 236a/b is super cancelable. While you can cancel into EX Dunk and actually have it combo, it's a much better idea to combo into 236C and probably get a corner/wallslam combo in for a lot of damage. Good shit.
236C
You won't use it outside of his corner combo. You have better options (most of which don't even cost meter) all the times you would use this. The few situations you would use this? Random 236b poke (first hit) comboes into this which will probably get you in position for the rest of the corner combo, and this also punishes backdashes, but definitely not all of them, and things get situational on top of that (not a 0 startup move, distance between you and opponent, the velocity of their backdash, etc)
623A/B and j.236A/B: Dual Sentenced Comet
A version doesn't take you anywhere but B version makes you flyyy. However, doing them from the ground takes you a lot farther than doing it in the air, if you're using it to get out of the corner. Also, the off-the-ground versions are air-unblockable and do ~500 more damage. This move is how you keep people from jumping out against you. Since it's common (especially for EX dunk) for people to jump out to avoid grabs, use this to punish them for guessing wrong. This is also for when they're in the corner and try to jump out and/or away, just use this to keep them in. They can still tech the ground bounce so if they're teching it and punishing you, either stop at the first hit or use the EX version....so that you can at least guarantee a bit of damage before they get their free escape. The other option? Jump up and try to dunk them.
623C and j.236C: EX Hotfoot
Used alone, it isn't too bad although it is sort of wasting meter, just don't use j.236C because it sucks. The 623 (off the ground) has the same two advantages over the 236 version as their non EX counterparts (with the exception that the EX ground version gets a full 1k more damage which is nice because 1.5k for the air version isn't much at all compared to the b version), so combine this with the massive amount of fire on Kouma's feet, and it's a pretty nice DP if you're willing to spend the meter, but really you will only want to use it off the ground (623C) when you really, REALLY need to stuff a jump in or someone is baiting heat from you by jumping or something else of that nature. Another thing~ this move basically has three spots to hit someone, and once the opponent is hit by one, five hits are added to the move at the end. The first spot is pretty much the first few frames and it'll only hit if they're on the ground (in which you shouldn't be using this). The second spot is from where he starts to one-third screen length away, and this is where the move is airunblockable. After that, the third spot is the rest of the move (which is a great distance) and IS air blockable (This is all for the 623 version because as said before, the j.236 version just sucks)
22A/B/C: Helm of God
22A is your GTFO ME BIATCH move. It scores counter hits pretty often, so be ready to follow up. One of his safest moves on wakeup, because both versions have superarmor. 22B....has a odd dash after it. The thing about this dash though is that: 1. no one really expects it and it flusters them somewhat 2. it has properties similar to White Len's dash where Kouma will "disappear" for a bit and will be able to go through people. Depending on spacing and stuff, you can use this against a dashin when you're in the corner and you'll end up on the other side of them and they'll just sit there sorta "WTF was that" (or you go in for the grab and wallslam followup if you were close enough to the corner and they didn't dash in). However, it's high risk because...well...you ARE dashing into them and you can't stop it early so if you use it and its not close enough for you to phaze through them but also not far enough to be barely just in distance of them, they can do pretty much whatever they want to you, the worst usually being some mega damage charge up move or even an arc drive. It's much less high risk than I realized now because....you have superarmor at the startup, clash frames during the dash (where they should be), and a bit of superarmor at the end of the dash. Pretty damn good, but not on wakeup. 22C....is 22A that covers more area, Air CHs them (that is, if they are counter hitted they'll be launched in the air and it'll be an air CH so you can follow up with whatever), and launches them straight upwards, sending them falling to their doom (you). But the biggest part of this move....is the super armor. You have roughly...a second and a half? (need confirmation) of super armor after you finish recovering. You can force damage on people with this, which is GREAT for sealing the deal and finishing people off. Got 200% meter when they're within 3k of dying? 22C after knockdown, dash-in (twice if needed since people like to run from this move a lot) and hitconfirm. If they're throwing out 2As, combo them into the corner combo for massive damage. If they backdash, punish that with 236C and follow up with the rest of the corner combo. If they're sitting there doing nothing but blocking, turn on Kouma's Shaq Fu and DUNK THAT SHIT.
Command grabs: Mighty Destruction
Woohoo! Finally. Alright, let's start out with just what these -are-. The A version is a command grab that you need to be very close for (if they are blocking or otherwise neutral, if you poke before you use the A version it'll be too far). The B version has significantly more range to where you -can- poke (twice if it's with As) and then it will be within range to connect. The tradeoff is that it takes a while, and you're risking CH2, which can get you abused hard against anyone who's not an idiot. Once either the A or the B version connects, you can either do nothing, and Kouma will asplode them in his hand, doing 2k dmg, or you can hold down and he will throw them on the ground half of a screen length behind them, doing 2.2k dmg, or you can hold backward and he will throw them at the wall behind them, causing unairtechable wallslam if he's half a screen or less from the wall, which means you can follow up. His last option (which is never really a good idea) is to use 236C to explode them MOAR in his hand, doing the same thing as doing nothing but deals 3k damage instead and costs 100% meter. The reason why this is usually a mistake is because the C version....the infamous EX DUNK also does 3k damage, but has invincibility, the speed of the A version (very fast) and the range of the B version (although it seems even larger sometimes), so you should have used that in the first place :V EX Dunk....is beautiful. You can only escape it by jumping out after the superflash, heating, backdashing (unless they're in the corner then they still eat it lol), or by using some move with startup invincibility and there aren't a lot (any?) of non-EX ones. Because of the invincibility you can throw this shit out almost randomly as long as they're standing/crouching on the ground and not able to jump out from their current state. Awesome on dash-in for EITHER you or your opponent and tons more. Abuse it like White Len in striped panties. Against someone who doesn't know how to stop the monster, you can hit max mode and dunk to your heart's content while they piss their pants not knowing what to do (but don't expect it to work that many times in a row in a match against anyone good). Anyway, more on command grabs in the following sections, since that's where the content mentioned belongs.
Kouma's DAAAIIIIENNNNNJOOOOUUUUU
Don't use it. :(
Kouma's Last Arc (shield in air)
Makoto's SA2 with added flammability. lolol
Comboing
Standard midscreen/meterless BnB: {2aa} 5b 2b 5c 2c 6c airthrow.
Japanese combo: Replace 6c with 236a/b 236a/b 2aa 2b airthrow. The timing from 2c to 236a/b is different than 6c and hard to get used to (but not necessarily difficult), but 236a/b to 2a is hard.
[15:27] <S-Blade> 2c 236b 236b and then 2aab airthrow
[15:27] <Veteru> about that
[15:27] <Veteru> the secret is
[15:27] <Veteru> you need the first 236b to bounce them outside of the second 236b's hitbox
[15:27] <S-Blade> omg veteru already foudn the secret
[15:27] <S-Blade> wait what o_O?
[15:27] <Veteru> so that they "fall into it" during the later active frames
[15:27] <S-Blade> oh
[15:27] <Veteru> i.e. artificially meaty
[15:27] <S-Blade> so it's really 236b xx 236b
[15:27] <Veteru> then you're further into the move... so you recover sooner (relatively speaking)
[15:27] <S-Blade> in a sense
[15:27] <crispys> can't be as hard as arc's wallbounce timing
[15:28] <RoboDuk> yeah
[15:28] <Veteru> harder than arc's wallbounce imo
[15:28] <CrazyDaze> Veteru: Making Simple Things Look Complicated
[15:28] <Veteru> since that is pretty consistant
[15:28] <Veteru> and doesn't vary by charachter really
[15:28] <Veteru> crazydaze: it's pretty tough imo... I can't do it consistantly
[15:28] <Veteru> or even close to reliably really
[15:28] <S-Blade> so much for kouma having the easiest bnb out of everyone lol
[15:28] <S-Blade> anyhow....
[15:28] <crispys> i was close to ripping my hair out trying to get the wallbounce
[15:29] <S-Blade> does that mean to hit the 236b as fast as possible so they don't get lower to the ground?
[15:29] <S-Blade> the first*
[15:29] <Veteru> the timing varies depending on their charachter
[15:29] <Veteru> hehehe :~
[15:29] <S-Blade> oh lord lol
[15:29] <crispys> lol
[15:29] <RoboDuk> generally the first 236 has to be late as possible
[15:29] <S-Blade> well at least i don't have backdash cancels to grab people
[15:30] <S-Blade> :V
[15:30] <crispys> it soundsl ike you just 236b quickly so you sort of juggle them with the second 236b
[15:30] <RoboDuk> you'll miss
[15:30] <S-Blade> crispys: check out the kouma video thread
[15:30] <crispys> but the second 236b has to hit later
[15:30] <Veteru> some chars if you do a quick 236b you can't hit with the second one no matter what
[15:30] <Veteru> other charachters you can do a quick 236b (like neco arc)
[15:30] <Veteru> then slight delay on the 236b followup
[15:30] <S-Blade> so the 2a timing isn't hard
[15:30] <S-Blade> or is it?
[15:31] <S-Blade> hey whoever the fuck that is, stop raping hisui unnecessarily
[15:31] <S-Blade> hisui needs none of that aoko uppercut so don't keep giving it to her :V
[15:31] <Harem> no one cares about hisui anyway
[15:32] <S-Blade> do you have a death wish
[15:32] <S-Blade> you might be able to get away with that in #meltybread, but.....
[15:32] <Harem> does the truth hurt that much? :'(
[15:32] <Veteru> the 2a timing is pretty hard
[15:32] <Veteru> but getting the 236bs right so the 2a followup is even possible... is the hardest part
[15:32] <S-Blade> man fucking japanese
Drop the 2b if you're either against Len or you were too far to open with 2as.
Following up wallslam/CH: 5c 2b airthrow into corner. You can actually do 2c 5c 2b airthrow but....2c get a sketchy hitbox the closer you are to them, so it usually isn't worth the risk unless you've practiced it.
"For the kill": When you see them low on health and want the combo to finish them, replace any airthrow with j.C j.236a/b j.236a/b, or if you think you might need ~200 extra damage for the kill, go for j.C j.236c.
Kouma's Corner Combo: {2aa} 5b 2b 5c 236c wallslam 5a 2b airthrow.
You have two frames to hit the 5a. That would be 1/30th of a second. Practice it.
Anyway, it does tons of damage, and you can do it from pretty far away, some places that some people would even call midscreen. Then it ends in knockdown in the corner which is never good for them. Also, it does tons of damage. Yep. Again, if you're Japanese, you can do 5a 5c airthrow at the end but....again, it's hard. If you need the extra range, you can do 236b 236c, but you get less damage (236c prorates more when chained off 236b).
The Kouma groundbounce corner loop: Do a "for the kill" ender, and when they fail to ground tech, follow up with 5c 2b but, because you can't jump cancel, your next move is to 623a j.236a/b. From here, they get another chance to ground tech out but if they fail again, you have the choice of either gaining the knockdown by jumping up and airthrowing them, or going for more damage and following up again. If you do follow up again, they'll be invincible on the way down from the ground slam and you can set up a tech punish (with anything you feel like, just not one of his grabs) and if they don't tech, go in for some random OTG shit (Kouma doesn't really have OTG because of 2b....maybe try 2As2c5c2b5b?). The biggest problem with this "loop" is that they get THREE chances to safely tech out in the middle of it, and you lose momentum and control and all that good stuff. In addition, if they tech out on the FIRST bounce (the one after your combo) you'll probably get punished with a full combo for free. The thing is, it -is- hard to tech, and they pretty much have to spam the directional button in hopes that they'll tech out. So expect it to work for the first two bounces, and then have your opponent teching out all the time after that. The bonus to this is that you can squeeze large amounts of damage out of your opponent, and it doesn't use meter. It's just that it can be escaped and punished with some timing (PERFECT FOR NETPLAY). Note that you don't need to be in the corner or really anywhere near the corner to do this, but doing even part of it after the first bounce will end up with them in the corner. Anyway, I believe the first I heard about this from Kryojenix, so credit for discovering it goes to him until he says "HAY GAIZ I DINT RLY MAEK IT I SAW IN SUM JPNZ VIDYO THAS AWL"
Mixup/Your Offensive in General
Kouma's mixup isn't high/low, it's poke/throw. You want them to sit there blocking when you go in for the grab, for them to throw out a bad poke which loses to your poke, and for them to poke at your shields.
-If you can cancel into a grab, it's usually a good idea unless they're in the air, or it's a projectile. This is usually a clash from Kouma's dash (yum) or a held shield.
-If they are in the air and you get a held shield, you can choose not to cancel, or cancel into 623a/b, or 22a/b/c. 22b is your best defensive option since you'll phaze through them and end up (usually) midscreen and out of the corner. 22a is your best offensive, you should get air CH and followup into knockdown. Sometimes 22a won't hit, which is what 623a/b is for.
-On EX-Shield, go for the combo and not the grab unless they have you in the corner.
-Any single grab always loses to them being able to throw, and them pushing the button first. Adjust your offensive accordingly (hint: poke more, even drop 2aa if you're feeling fancy)
Basic Dash-in Mixup:
Dash in -> A grab ~ beats block, loses to poke
Dash in -> clash -> A grab ~ beats poke, loses to them pressing the throw button first or a really fast poke (satsuki 5a) on reaction
Dash in -> held shield -> A grab ~ beats poke, loses to throw and shield high/low counter (they throw you something that must be shielded low when you dash in shielding high). Those who play GG and have mastered FD breaking will love this.
Dash in -> EX Dunk ~ loses to doing nothing and immediately heating or doing anything else with invincibility or just 0 startup (hiero)
Dash in -> 2aa into combo -> beats shittier pokes, loses to shield
Dash in -> 623a -> beats trying to jump out of a grab or poke attempt, poking (not guaranteed, 623a is only 4f so you can still get stuffed but only by fast or clashy shit), loses to block and shield, try not to use this unless you're sure that they won't block otherwise you get punished hard for free
Dash in -> EX Hotfoot -> beats the above + poking guaranteed and also beats heat depending on when they activate and how fast theirs is
Dash in -> 236c -> beats backdash
Dash in -> Ticking (see below section)
Note that even though these are Dash in mixups, things change when you use 22b because you can't shield or grab in it, but you have super armor. However, you can be thrown out of it.
"Tick Mixup":
What the Koumas in #SRM like to do. I don't really like it because there are less options, but it catches those who don't have better reaction time. To start it, throw out one 2A at point blank. If it hits, combo. If its blocked, wait a short bit for blockstun to end, and then make your move. Your moves are essentially the same as in the dash in mixup, except that you grab without dashing in (you're still in range as long is it was point blank and ONE 2A). You lose dash-in clash, but you also sort of lose some of these because people will rarely attempt to backdash, jump out of the grab attempt, or heat in this situation. The main difference with the tick mixup and the dash-in mixup is that the tick mixup is dealing more with stuff "on reaction" than raw guessing. This goes for both sides. If you able to reliably hit/block confirm 2a (harder than it sounds), you can go into ticking from dash-in or oki, which can seriously mindfuck your opponent. The problem? It's hard, and really only works best on higher level play where your opponent is doing well at reading your guesses, and then you make them guess again immediately after guessing right. On your part, it's a little like a mulligan (oh, he read the poke and blocked, time to tick for another shot at a knockdown).
Okizeme/Wakeup
Kouma only has one real oki (without this, you wait for them to get up and then dash in for your basic mixup which isn't oki), which is his superjump backdash mixup. His superjump instant backdash (which should be referred to as sjabd which looks more like mashing on keys than a real acronym) puts him....right back where he started if done instantly. If you delay the backdash, you can end up on the other side of your opponent, right next to them. And don't forget that on the backdash, you can choose to throw out a j.C. Basically, it's a crossup, but when you land you're instantly close enough to do his basic grab/poke mixup without having to dash in. This isn't true if you throw out a j.C and it gets blocked, but from there you can just dash in mixup from there instead. Basically, unless your opponent can already read what side they're going to be on, they have to guess between a lot more options than they want to. Then you can shield their pokes if you want to, as well....it's pretty mean. Just make sure that you don't crossup yourself into a 236a. That could end up tragic.
Bara Cancels
....now cost an extra 50% meter. Ouch. Anyway, since the cost is so high, try to bara only A grabs if you can. The only thing you get from going into EX Dunk (and spending a total of 150%...fucking gross) is more damage. Kouma's got the best bara in the game, so use it. Don't bara if their hitbox isn't literally in your face. I can't think of any move that will dodge a bara'd A grab but lose to bara'd EX Dunk, so don't worry about that. Also, when you get good at bara'ing in game and you know when to do it, learn what moves have fucked up hitboxes that you can grab people out of when you shouldn't be able to (I remember someone commenting in #mbac that a V.Sion was getting grabbed out of 236 moves? fucked upppp) Kouma's bara is just really good and really simple so....there needs not be too much explanation here.
Implied Damage
Implied damage is not something that will work on advanced players. Now that that's out of the way, what does it mean? It means damage that isn't guaranteed because it isn't in a valid combo, but damage that is still at least probable because whatever you did before it gave the move some extra advantage. A good, general example of this is tech punishes.
Ways for Kouma to get implied damage:
-after 623a/b x2 or j.236a/b x2, 5c 2b airthrow on non-tech
-groundbounce corner loop
-after hotfoot, back dash and 623b x2
Feel free to be creative and add more.
-
Advantageous Matchups
Kohaku
Tohno
Satsuki
Warakia
V.Sion
Sion
Even Matchups
Arc
Mech-Hisui
Hisui
Kouma ---neutral point
Nanaya
Miyako
Nero
Disadvantageous Matchups
Akiha
V. Akiha
Aoko
Warc
Ciel
Largely Disadvantageous Matchups
W.Len
Len
These are ordered. Kohaku is the best, Len is the worst.
9 positive matchups, 10 negative matchups. Three of each are insignificantly +/- enough to be considered an Even Matchup.
Matchup Details
Akiha-
She dies SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWLLLY. Make sure to pull off your meter combos when you can, especially off of wallslam. It's hard to play reversal against her defense because of tk ribbons which pretty much eliminate your option of shielding into grab completely. To make it worse, her 214 flames screw up your air approach. And when on the ground, watch out for the far 2C poke. You can still DP her air ribbons that aren't TKed, but if you're too late you'll get counterhit and possibly comboed. The idea here is that your offensive against her needs to be very good because if you let her keep the offensive you won't be able to do much. One of the easy advantages Kouma has over her, though, is when she sets up firepit and EX flametongue in the corner....just bara it and dunk her.
V. Akiha-
The same as above for obvious reasons, but it's a good deal easier to handle. This is because 1. she dies much, much faster and 2. she doesn't have her flame to own up your air approach, since 2C still sucks to play against. One of the new downsides is that you're going to have to get used to grabbing her a lot less, because she's in the air quite often because of ribbons, two airdashes, and j.C.
Aoko-
Orbs are hard to deal with, so if she sets herself up in the corner, try and avoid her lasers as much as possible. It's common for her to set up orbs and then go for charged B beam (unblockable), don't be a retard and shield this, just jump. Don't stay in the air too much, or her 5[C] foot laser will get you. There is a way to use orbs to your advantage. If they're close to her, run up and shield them. If she decides to poke, wait until its shielded and grab her. The other way to use the orbs to your advantage (which works a lot better) is to 236B through them (super armor), or better, use 22C. If you use 22C, make it count and make sure she doesn't get away with her 2 airdashes and 3 jumps. Keep on the ground as much as possible. She has too many AA options and your air to ground game sucks as it is.
Arc-
Her meterless damage is high, and she can use meter to extend the range of her corner combo, giving her better access to better damage, while her pressure game and high-low is still good. The trick here is that a lot of the time, you're in the corner because Arc just loves to rape you in there. The advantage is that Kouma is still fucking good when he's in the corner because of grab wallslam and EXes that are great at reversing disadvantageous situations. You should either be very defensive on this one where you suddenly grab her out of her pressure and wallslam her for great damage, or very offensive where SHE is in the corner and you fuck her up with your big damage.
Warc-
Blood rings are a bitch. If warc spams blood rings, you're gonna have trouble. You can try 236bing through them so that you can suffer a bit of damage to actually get in, but its hard and I really don't recommend it. 22b will work a couple times for getting past blood ring spam, but remember that although 22b is filled with anti-poke candy, its still punishable. Other than blood rings, in the air warc has a somewhat decent j.B, and j.A spam. Her j.C blows even more than Kouma's does. If she's in the air, either go for the air throw or DP -fast- before a blood ring comes out. Dash-in shield loses to her B uppercut/bloodwall because even if you keep shielding, she gets advantage and throws you for free. EX Uppercut is airunblockable on the last hit, but j.236b x2 lifts and floats you, so even if you've already used your double jump and airdash, you can use it to avoid the uppercut and possibly hit warc for some LOLtastic goodness.
1.30.2008- EX Dash crossup is nothing. Hold shield into 22b to get out for free, or hold shield into 22c into an oki setup WITH superarmor which means you'll most likely win the guess and score another ~4k damage on your opponent. Any other options after shield are iffy because warc ends up behind you (including 22a-- it doesn't hit behind you)
Ciel-
A hard matchup. She has a lot of punishers, and many of Kouma's normals are easily punished because he's slow. A lot of your ground game gets shut down by stuff like knives that pushes you really far back, and she can punish anything, including EX Dunk, with EX Heiro. You have to use your air game to get knockdowns in this one so you can start the pressure and mixup. The last big advantage is that her safest wakeup option (and one of the safest in the game), 22C, gets beat by an immediate EX Dunk because she's on the ground. I don't recommend 22Cing unless she's knocked down. 22C is punished for free by EX Heiro and the superarmor doesn't last long enough for you to punish her afterward, unless you block it which is still a problem because EX Heiro crosses up many times in the middle of the animation.
Hisui-
An all around character and one of the most even matches for Kouma. Hisui doesn't have any particular strengths that work against Kouma's, and vice versa. Play against Hisui as you would...usually play against Hisui...or rather, usually play the game.
Hisui (w/ Kohaku)-
Same as above except that Hisui loses stuff-fu which helps you out in getting in and staying close.
Mech-Hisui-
Two words: Ground approach. AA missiles and tk jetpacks combined with your crappy air moves, and you're better off constantly trying to dash in. Dodge or shield projectiles and you'll have an easier time (but in this case, dodge > shield because you don't have to dodge several times, but you often have to shield several times)
Kohaku-
You have two major advantages over Kohaku. First is her broom. You can bara/shield -> A grab pretty much all normals. The second advantage is while you're saving meter not having to use EX Dunk baras against normals, you get to use them against plants for some hilarious shit. Disadvantages? She can poke with her broom from really far away to stop you from getting in in the first place (shieldgrab that shit), and her offence in the corner is about as deadly as yours (which is why we can bara EX dunk). Most notably though, she can escape out of the corner with 214a.
Kohaku (w/ Hisui)-
Probably worse off because she doesn't get 214a escape and she only really gets Hisui assist (blockstring ender) in return. If you're close enough, you can sometimes just dash up and grab her before the assist completes (ex. Hisui in the process of jumping in the air to do j.C)
Kouma-
If you get caught up with this matchup, and you're still playing Melty Blood, you're going to lose. You're playing a 3d fighter here. Grab and shield a LOT more than you're used to. You should be grabbing and shielding just as much as you're poking. If one in particular works over and over, repeat. This matchup is so retarded that if I ever find myself against another Kouma player in tournament play, I'm just gonna use a different character ;p
Nanaya-
This is where you get pressured up the ass. You need to know when to use 22a, 22b, and 623a/b/c and shield to get out of the corner before you get inevitably screwed. However, don't use one too often or you're going to get baited easily. Also, remember that he has 236a/b as awesome anti-air so you want to stay on the ground a lot for this one. Lastly, he's one of the characters (I believe) that you can accidentally jump over and get fucked with the third hit of 236a/b.
Tohno-
tohno is a simple character so just abuse all gimmicks and it works no matter what character you use eh :V
Len-
(placeholder, waiting for Xie since apparently he has tips for this and I don't!)
W.Len-
Ice traps own you. You can't really get out easily. There's a short gap between ice traps, and usually the best option is to jump out before she grabs you. It's difficult to get in with her far normal pokes and ice pokes, so you will have to do some shielding. Her dp is probably the best in the game and should piss you off. The only real way around it is to bait it by landing and blocking, which should turn out well for you. Her spindance mixup is usually a mistake on her part- just dunk it. Until, of course, she baits it by using her fake spindance (where she creates an image of herself). To top it all off, Kouma's high damage is counteracted by her defense being the 3rd best in the game.
Miyako-
Two short range fighters, and she has the better priority (but still less range). Her rolls will rape your grabs if you let them cross you up. Here's why: She rolls. You attempt to 214A. She crosses you up first, so this turns into 236A in the other direction. She's still in dodging animation so you go through her. This is.....a double crossup :(. If the Miyako player knows that he can abuse this with her dodge roll and her dodgerolling off of dash elbow (which can also be mixed up between A and B to cross up on its own, AND is used in pressure), you will be a VERY sad panda. Her pressure game is a little nervewracking, she often throws a blocksting and then ends it with stomp or dash elbow which is supposed to either keep you locked down or flat out hit you. The nice thing about this is that you can simply superarmor through with 236b if she lets you out of blockstun.
Nero-
DPs are free. 623b is able to hit Nero while he's standing to block it high....except that you have to block it low. The difficulty in this matchup comes from Nero, like Wara and Kohaku, having a lot of range, but you not being able to use it to your advantage to grab him. The next obstacle is that Kouma has no way to deal with beasts. Not a lot of characters have much of a way to deal with them, but Kouma is one of them who has it worse off than the others. Best suggestion would just be to be a trooper and block through all of it. After all, you've still got the best bara in the game and Nero is HUEJ
Satsuki-
Don't go for the grabs on this one unless she's on the defensive. You really need to abuse your AA in this matchup because of the best IAD in the game. Even if she's in the corner and you dash in for an A grab (which is less punishable than the other two), she can jump back -> IAD for a full BnB punish, or worse, a CH2 punish. She also has the best DP in any fighting game. If you can reliably 2b her IAD j.C, her main approach disappears. And then her stronger, crossuppy stuff comes into play :( All of these problems don't necessarily come from Sacchin herself, but that, with so many Sacchin players and Denpa winning SBO, everyone knows how to use top-level Sacchin tactics. Dealing with her mixup after airthrow (it's a four-way mixup to block) can be solved by 22c, but nothing else particularly easy. Concentrate and figure out through the timing and spacing where she's going to hit you.
Sion-
One of the few matches where an air approach is ideal. Sion can control the ground a lot better than she can control the air. Recognize her resets and dunk them out for free. Keep your defense solid, and watch out for her DP on your okis.
V.Sion-
Summons will make things go nuts. Neither player will be able to concentrate if this goes right. Against a summon, grabbing her works. Dashing up shortly and dodging can work as well. Blocking puts you at a slight disadvantage because that's what the other player is half-expecting you to do. Either way, both players trying to do what they need to do to avoid or fully utilize V.Sion's summon will turn into a mindfuck for both. You can grab her when she engages after summoning, or superamor through the summon if you're good, but guessing for grab can land you 5k damage if you're in the corner (and you usually are). Her dive kick is neutral, so each one is a very fast RPS situation: Another instant divekick is her high option, 2a is her low option, and if you're in the corner she can throw you for a good amount of damage as well. Recognize this, because some V.Sion players don't treat divekick as an RPS situation, just a way for pressure and to score an easy CH and combo. Basically, it doesn't seem like it but you can grab her afterward if she decides to do something other than jump for another. Lastly, a good V.Sion will attempt to outrange you with 236a at the end of blockstrings and such....but a better Kouma will just shield it and grab her. Yes, you can grab her from it.
EDIT: If you can stay on the offensive and get out of her offensive consistently, this match will go very smoothly for you. This is because V.Sion doesn't have a lot of good options reversal-wise and usually just has to block everything. Kouma wants her to block because then he can grab her. Moved to (slightly) advantageous matchup.
Warakia-
Probably Kouma's best matchup. You can bara and/or shield->grab many moves of his, and their range works in your favor as well. Just grab the fucker by the cape every chance you get. Oh, and like Nero, 623b hits him when he's standing. Watch out for teleports and the range of his j.C and j.2C, they aren't the most favorable versus your 2b.
----
Taken from the Tier List thread:
These numbers are how many matches Kouma would get out of ten. They're taken by averaging out numbers from the opinions of top MB players, so keep in mind that these assume that each character is playing their character to their full potential, utilizing every mixup and pressure and every other kind of technique they've got. The above list I made is a more practical for US level play.
By the way, for each character, it might be good to put a listing of their matchups in order from Best to Worst.
For example: Kouma
5.75 Arcueid
5.63 Sion
5.42 Satsuki
5.38 Warakia
5.38 Kohaku
5.25 HisuKoha
4.88 Ciel
4.88 M.Hisui
4.88 Nanaya
4.88 Akiha
4.88 W.Ren
4.78 Aoko
4.75 Red Arc
4.75 Hisui
4.63 Ren
4.63 Miyako
4.63 V.Akiha
4.63 V.Sion
4.50 T.Shiki
4.29 Nero
-
Breakthrough Discovery: 623a/b hits low! Because 623a is only 4 frame startup, this actually gives you a little bit of a high-low mixup that you can work with! Is this a good idea? Not really. The biggest problem is that if it's blocked you'll get comboed for free. But when doing things like double jump airdash in corner for universal high-low mixup, you can use 623a (well you have to really since 2c sucks). What else does this mean? This means that sjbd oki is fucking stuuupiiidddddd. First you've got your crossup so now you're guessing between left and right....now you have high-low so you're now guessing between four directions...and on top of that you have the danger of being grabbed. A shield is fine too....for Kouma. Each one of these options leads to at LEAST ~2k damage, while looking at good possibilities of 3-4k total (wallslam followup, fail to tech 623a groundbounce, etc). Pretttyyy fucked up.
There's also iad -> late/fake j.C -> 623a for high-low, but you're much better off doing iad -> late/fake j.C -> grab instead for many reasons.
-
It only matters if Kouma has an overhead and he doesn't have one? So there's no high/low mixup?
Only 1st hit for A and 1st and 2nd for B. Still weird and interesting though. :psyduck:
-
It's still there. j.C is slow enough that airdash j.[C] -> land 623a can work for mixing up into low, and just smacking with j.C for high. Still works on oki, and when not in oki probably best in corner (knockdown in corner, jump over, double jump if it was off regular 214a, airdash above head, then pull the mixup. can cause random crossup as well).
Other than that....nothing.
-
S-Blade-sama ;D ya did a very nice job with the guide! It's suppa helpfull ;) now its easy to play with Kouma hehe keep up the good work
-
thanks ^^
i put the tools that you need to play kouma in this guide, all that's left is for the readers to know it and develop their own style of play which comes naturally
the japanese have a very different style of play than USA players (even me)....but not really on purpose. once you start playing people who are really good and have japanese styles of play themselves and you start adapting naturally, you'll end up playing pretty japanese :slowpoke: although that probably goes for the game in general, not just kouma.
-
Yeah, there can be guides for every char, but in the end u'll develop ur own game playing style ;)
In Portugal at the moment there rnt any kind of players using japanese playing style, although we have some very good players.
-
Great guide S blade, I look at it all the time for some Kouma info, trying to main him now, gotta learn to time the 5C 2B right though, like when the opponent is hit in the air by a j.B or something...
-
Was practicing for a couple hours today, and now I can finally pull off the Bara cancel with Kouma, now I can see how simple it can be, but so far I can pull off the 214C version, 214A is a lil harder for me because of the way my thumb is positioned on the controller. Also, a question, if I did Bara with 214A, I could still be hit compared to the C version right??
-
yes, definitely. the C version is MUCH safer because you have a MUCH bigger range and you also have invincibility.
also, i'm surprised you can actually do it on pad. i was never able to do it on pad, can only do it on stick. nice job
-
Hi, thanks for the awesome guide. I wish they had one this detailed for satsuki. I don't play kouma that much at the moment but i often have trouble fighting against him. I was wondering if you could post some general ideas about fighting against kouma. Things to watch out for and some general anti kouma tactics.
Thanks a lot. :)
-
playing against kouma....
basic weaknesses:
zoning
weak air game (i.e. if you can get the player to stay in the air as a defensive measure, that's good)
no to little high-low mixup
biggest piece of advice anyone can give you on playing against kouma: play against his offense as if you're playing 3rd strike. all that really means is to adjust to blocking much less and poking or backdashing and iabding a lot more, but if you've played a significant amount of 3rd strike and know how to adjust like so, then do so. you'll suddenly see yourself getting grabbed a hell of a lot less.
if you're getting shot out of the air because of DP, first try stuffing it with air projectiles (flametongue, blood ring especially, crossbow, knives), and if that doesn't work, try something that has a LOT of priority for an air move so you can at least trade (because it's unairblockable, you'll save yourself from possible knockdown and some other bad things). if all else fails, hold shield (in the air) and cancel into air throw (i think you can do this....SHOULD be able to) but only after you see him do it, since you get major recovery from shielding in the air once you hit the ground.
-
Good guide. I'm trying to pick up on Kouma; it's pretty easy. A lot easier then Arc at least. >.>
-
I've learned quite a bit since the last time I updated the post, but I don't feel like....updating it. So here's a bulleted list on....
Advanced Kouma Tactics
- New/alternate okizeme setup-
Instead of sjabd, try this after a grab: dash, jump UP (not forward or back), and then either air backdash at the last minute then j.C, or land then do 2c or grab. Or shield or dodge if you're feelin' lucky. It's very similar to Satsuki's falling/floating j.C mixup on oki.
- Okizeme corner crossup setup-
See the above? This is somewhat similar. Make sure your opponent is in the corner and you have some space to spare after the grab or third 236b. Then dash-jump OVER or superjump over your opponent, and then immediately jump into the corner again and immediately airdash into corner. j.C or j.[C] will make you fall with your hand slamming right into your crossuped opponent's face. The motion is sort of hard. But if you can do IADs, you've already got half of it down. If they block it...well, they're in a perfect spot for some wallslam, don't you think? 5[C] serves a good use here. If it lands, you get a combo. However, I would use Kouma's regular BnB instead of the alternate BnB (listed below) so that you can airthrow them back towards the corner. Unless you like oki more.
You can call this alternate, but I do it every time. {2aa} 5b {2b} 5c 236b 236b xx 236b. You want the third rekka to hit as late as possible, so you end up as close to your opponent as possible when you land. You do a bit less damage....500, give or take. What do you earn? You earn oki. However, you still get less time than if you have a grab so the oki is slightly different than sjabd because you have less time. There's also a different timing because you're much closer. Being closer lets you have the oki more complete because you're spending less time covering distance in the air. Sort of hard to explain. But play with it. IMO it's much stronger than getting 500 damage and no oki at all off the air throw.
Kouma still doesn't have much. He doesn't have a lot to pull out randomly either~ you can't use any of his specials mid blockstring without losing momentum (unless they turtle up against 22c). Except of course, 214b. Which is strong as hell. It looks exactly like 5{c}. So mix those two up and place them randomly in your blockstring. Learn the good-random~ it's a top-tier skill that isn't easily learned and can't be taught. When your opponent starts reading your 214bs and 5{c}s with sharp eyes, go for 5[c] for a reset. But....don't do it if you have them in the corner. Just whiff cancel and try again. And remember, at any time in a blockstring you can just go what the hell, whiff cancel, and dash in for a grab attempt. A good player will anticipate a poke with an ex-shield to counter and regain momentum!! except you're grabbing them. w00t.
- After 236c, 2a5c5a airthrow works. Is it hard? Very yes.
- j.B. It stuffs lots of shit. Use it! And after air CHs, go for 2b5c airthrow.
- Guess what guys? Kouma's DP sets up a tech punish in the corner. There's sort of a trick to it though. You have to switch between 623a and 623b depending where you are. 623a is the one that works deep inside the corner so you'll find yourself using that more. Tech punish with 2a or 2c. j.236a/b also sets up a difficult tech punish (or so Veteru says). If you can do this reliably, you'll probably find yourself using air throw much less. Gogo corner groundbounce loop
- Random hits-
It's easy to follow up any random hit that isn't 2c. So what about random 2c? Two choices. Most preferred....just go into oki like you're V.Sion or a japanese Satsuki. But if they're low on health and its for the kill....best would be 5c6c dj.c j.236c. What you'll find yourself doing more is 5c2b j.c 236b x2 off random hits. If you already chained into them....just go into oki. 6c is slow so it's hard to combo it into 2c randomly on reaction.
- Bait the jump out- grab feigning.
This is easy. Do whatever you most frequently do to get a grab in- usually this is just dashing in. Then block instead. They'll attempt to jump out of something that isn't there, free dp. The worst thing that can happen is that they throw you instead. And we all know throws in MB are some pretty weak sauce unless you're Kouma, the king of the court.
If you ever find yourself in Blood Heat, Kouma's AAD is VERY easy damage. It grabs ground and air persons! And it still has the hit-part of it which can't be backdashed by a lot of characters and has a very tall hitbox as well as stupidly wide. Plus the damage. So, if you ever want to zip down your pants and beast all over someone, activate Blood Heat. You don't have to AAD, of course. Blood Heat allows for something silly like five EXes to be cranked out. The first of these I would recommend to be is a 22c. Randomly if possible (you can still feel lots of pain from grabs...for free. Like Sion's EX Whip or Warc's EX Dash. Or Satsuki's EX arm....Or Ciel's EX Halo....be careful). Then dunk their ass! Then hotfoot when they try to jump out from the second! Then BHAD! Whatever! Just get your shit all over their face. Kouma's EXes are excellent as long as they don't miss or get blocked/jumped. Blood Heat is an excellent time to abuse all of this.
Have fun.
-
Hmmm...sounds very nice S-sama, i'll give it a try hehe ;D keep up the good work and let know that kouma's the best bad ass char in MB :P:P
-
Yeah, awesome tips S-Blade, for Kouma its nothing but net
-
Goddamn.. Call me greedy, but we need this kinda In-Depth guide for ALL the characters... This guide for Kouma's outstanding!
-
Well, if it makes you feel better I plan to sub Riesbyfe once MBAA comes and I'd learn and use her seriously enough to be able to write a guide on her....but a ton of other people probably will as well so I'm not sure I'd be the person to do it
this of course would come AFTER completely redoing the guide for MBAA lol
full moon, crescent moon, gibbous moon modes...it's gonna get hot. real hot
-
Is it a good idea, after you whiff cancel your combo, to IAD with a j.C and depending if they block or not, to use the command throw or combo?? Oh, and it could also be late, which means they could be blocking, hey free throw
-
Not really. It sort of depends....on how good your opponent's character's ground game and how good their anti-air game is. Remember, Kouma's j.C is really slow and is IAD isn't so hot either. There's no easy solution, but going for the air approach is more risky because 1. you're risking air counterhit and 2. you don't have access to your good specials/supers in the air. So you'll and up using the ground approach a whole lot more than your air approach since there are only a handful of situations/characters where it would be worth the risk. Hisui could be one, since even though she has AA dust, on the ground she's got EX dust and chairs and bento and her 2c and everything....ship your pwnage by air.
-
lol, ah ok, thanks for the tip
-
Ummm, after an opponent techs out of a loop in the air, whats the best option, I was thinking 236B to kind of get close on the them, plus the super armor at the beginning, is that usually a good idea??
-
if you mean after they tech the groundbounce loop, you can punish the tech with either 2c or 2a depending on spacing. it's a little hard. 236b works because of superarmor and that nullifies some reversal supers, but you would have to continue with the rest of the rekkas which means you're pushing them to midscreen, away from the corner, where kouma is best. if you land a 2a tech punish and they aren't grounded, i would go into airthrow into the corner. but if you land a 2c i would drop it right there and go into oki and you're set
-
Just to let everyone know who doesn't, the easiest way to dash super jump for either oki is this: 62369.
-
How to 22C
22C is one of Kouma's most advanced tools, most powerful, and, very simply, changes the game quite drastically for the next situation where the players need to outguess one another. So, the goal of 22C is to activate it in a position where you can initiate a guessing situation, do so, and then take the (offensive) action most probable for success depending on the status of your opponent.
When to activate:
You don't want 22C to hit your opponent on non-counterhit because the resulting situation is very difficult to get the use of 22C superarmor from. In other words, you want 22C to either: Counter-hit, or be blocked.
The first hit of 236b is EX-cancellable. 236b and the rekkas in general are also easily punishable, but reaches far, has a hit of superarmor, and is a good poke disregarding how unforgiving it is. When you are willing to 22C and have the meter, random 236b becomes strong. Either it hits and you lead into a knockdown, or it's blocked....and you cancel it into a blocked 22C. This is the easiest and probably the best way to get a blocked 22C in. As for getting a CH 22C in....there are a lot of ways to bait CHs. Frame traps, shielding, guessing right, the list goes on; it's more part of basic melty play than anything Kouma-specific so I won't list it here. 22C is also a great wakeup tool if you're willing to gamble that your opponent will use some meaty move when you wake up.
Engaging:
CH 22C is easy: just 2C and go into the oki of your choice. It doesn't even need to be a real oki. Dance around if you want, because 22C superarmor will change your opponents way of play and often confuse them, and usually if they don't know what's going on and you do, you cash in big. If you do something unexpected it could throw off a player who's used to identifying and dealing with your oki.
Blocked 22C, you have two options. Dash in or IAD in, depending on if you think they'll try an air escape or ground escape (usually they'll go by habit because of which moveset of theirs, ground or air, is better). 22b is too slow and restricting and readable. If your opponent is not in the corner after the pushback from the 22C, you're going to have a very unfavorable situation and will have to read your opponent early on (next step).
Reading your opponent and punishing:
The first part of this is easy. Find out where they're going. The smartest thing to do (usually) against a superarmored Kouma is to run away and avoid him. You need to cut your opponent off, which is why it's best to have them in the corner, where it's a lot easier to do.
The second part is hard. You need to figure out what they're going to do to you, or if they're going to block. Remember this: when you activate 22c and somehow the end result is you getting thrown or airthrown, you lose. If you're in their face and you have superarmor, you can flat out guess and you'll probably win too. But in maximizing the use of superarmor we can create some better odds. With those in mind, you want to bait something from your opponent for your best chance of success. It usually doesn't matter what you bait, because many things become safe for you and dangerous for them so you can get very creative here, and through that, very unpredictable. Example: intentionally whiff A grab in front of their face. When they go by instinct to take the free combo, 5b them in the face and go into a corner combo that doesn't have reduced damage due to 2a's. It'll hurt. A lot. You've paid 200% meter for 5k+ damage, but the technique you used to do it was your key to beating out (maybe even gimmicking out) a player who's much better than you.
22c is Kouma's trump card, his hidden forbidden jutsu. When things got hot and intense, pull this out for the win and you'll be hearing dramatic music following it.
(i might add more to this later, after i finish this calculus project. at 1:40 am. >_>)
-
So does this mean, he superarmor leasts longer than the attack itself? And what do you mean by oki?
Just curious about it.
-
Yes, basicly 22C super armor last 4 seconds after the activation(correct?;O). Oki stands for Okizeme:also ‘wakeup’ attack, an attack on an opponent getting up from a knockdown state without teching.
-
Then I have to change my whole Kouma strategy. Previously, I thought the 22C was only a super version of 22A with more flames and blockstun effect. Damn, this gives a total of numerous new tactics.
+HEAT for S-Blade and Nevan for the explanation. Thanks.
-
It's between 2 and 3 seconds, I forget exactly how many frames. Okizeme in MBAC usually implies a mixup of some sort, so for Kouma I usually mean the superjump-backdash and dash-jump-up mixups.
Good luck if you can build your entire Kouma playstyle around 22C; it's pretty advanced and pretty hard to do. It's sort of like playing SA3 Makoto in 3rd Strike....more rewarding than anything else, but coming at a high cost.
Usually if you're significantly better than your opponent you won't even need 22C superarmor. You should just be to guess right.
-
Great work S-Blade sama, 22C can be a great asset when youre under heavy fire, it could easily put your opponent on the defensive and 3-4 seconds might just mean the whole match with all the damage Kouma dishes out.
-
No more no less m8, just likes S-Blade said this is 'Kouma's forbidden hiden jutsu' or its last resort, looks kinda useless at a 1st glimpse, but in a in depth look, u get to know the magic arround it ;) a great work S-Blade! Once more Shinso i agree with ya, it sure can turn the tables with a great usage of this 'jutsu' ;D
-
S-blade sama, I dunno if this is really helpful or not, but in training mode, I was working on a combo while the opponent's on block and lets say in a situation I do 2a 5c and then 5b and then whiff it with 5a, I notice that theres a shorter dash in distance and also I think I can still reach the opponent with one 2a poke while my opponent's 2a poke is off by at least a frame or two,with the exception of long pokes like Nero and his freaking Jumanji snakes.. and also.. I think if ya time the dash right, if a poke does come your way, I think Kouma's clash frames come up, because theyre at the beginning of the dash and being at that distance...... but anyway, I was wondering if this was effective or not.... oh and btw lol I dont think Kouma's much of a Ninja with a Superarmor jutsu, more of a B ball MVP whos about to kick it into overtime lol, Kishima Kouma, Basketman!!! DUNK!!
-
he has a shorter dash-in motion because he's moving backwards from the pushback of 2c/5c. nothing out of the ordinary
dash-clash is more useful for clashing with clashable-projectiles like mech-hisui's rockets or ciel's knives because you don't have to anticipate them, you only have to time them. it's sort of hard and would take some practice to do it reliably, but if you can, a LOT of disadvantageous matchups go away. ciel, warc, mech hisui, hisui, the list can go on. however, aoko and akiha are there to stay.
kouma needs to be teamed up with white len for a j.[C] airthrow alleyoop lolol
-
Well I wasnt exactly asking why it was shorter, but rather if its useful for his mixup, at that distance, its a pretty quick reaction for you and your opponent, but it could all be in your favor, its sounds like some big pressure in the corner too, being that close after whiffing from 5C 5B, its like Indiana Jones with the boulder coming for you and you gotta make that quick decision to eat it or run, it wont be too troublesome dashing in because of clash frames, it kinda sets in some sort of safety before getting on the inside and flaming all over your opponent....quick guessing but it might be worth it
-
if you're in 2a range, then go for it. this is because you can mixup between
5c5b 5awhiffcancel 2a -> combo
and
5c5b 214b grab -> whatever
-
Updated the Match-Ups post with better, more helpful information.
-
Good work, keep it up!!
-
Question about the JAP Rekka BNB...... errmm so far, I can do it on Sacchin and Warachia with some ok timing, but when it comes to anyone else, its totally different and I cant connect with that second rekka, so then if thats the case, then I guess it only works with some characters considering the strict and very unforgiving timing.. lol I was practicing this for like 3 days straight but now I think I got the hang of it a lil, but anyway, how many characters do you think you can connect with this BNB??
-
yeah, it's character-specific. but which ones are possible and which ones are not possible?
:mystery:
-
I knew Nero is possible....since it's the only one I could do T_T
-
Alright Kouma fans, I've got some new secret tech for you guys (which might not be a secret, but I don't see it in this thread or anywhere, so correct me if I'm wrong). At first glance Kouma's normal throw is totally useless compared to his command throw in damage and etc, but there is actually a practical application for it. If your opponent is in the corner, try throwing out a normal throw instead of a command grab. Why? Well, Kouma's normal throw is techable, but therein lies a tech punish that can punish techs in any direction if your opponent is cornered when it hits. The hard part about this is that only Kouma is really slow, so your timing has to be at least above average. Furthermore, you have to pick the correct normal or timing based on how far they are going to land from you or which direction they picked. It's very doable on reaction, but it takes quite a bit of practice.
General guidelines:
If the tech lands your opponent close to you (you grabbed them off the screen with a dash in grab and they back/neutral tech OR they forward tech when you aren't totally in the corner), use 2a to start the tech punish.
If the tech lands your opponent farther away from you (they back/neutral teched when you weren't totally in the corner or they forward tech when you were very close to the corner), use 5b to start the tech punish.
A tech punish that crosses you up (99% of forward techs in this setup), it has very, very, very different timing from a tech where they do not cross you up.
If you smell a no tech (psychics only, nearly impossible on reaction), you can mash 2aaaaa then end with a 5c/2c for about 2k damage, which, is about the same if you command grabbed with no ender (though technically it deals slightly more due to the extra hits and being harder to reduce).
This is generally what I tend to do when I corner someone, anyone else got any good corner game tips?
-
Well I dunno if this is anything useful, but for an Aoko who sets up orbs in the cornering and trying to hit you with a laser, what you can do is if youre a little far away, Kouma's dash can avoid it, though the dash is kinda short at that distance, so 22B can be used, its a kinda long dash that can get you close plus super armor never hurt anyone, and with that orb defense on the ground, you can use 22A or maybe 22C if you want to take out the orb and maybe if your lucky, youll get that counter hit and either go for a loop or an air throw depending on the situation....
-
You can dash after the 22B dash, too. Means further distance, nearly the whole screen, if it's not a ground orb. In the other case, simply 236A 236C, to first erase the orb and then punish the 236{B} of Aoko with a wallslam, that you can combo out, if you are close enough.
OR, 236A 22B, for orb erasing and dash-in.
-
problem with 22b versus aoko is that it loses to throws, and aoko can throw Kouma into the orbs to put him back at square one, or after throw punish techs (although iirc neutral tech is actually pretty damn safe if your opponent isn't psychic or at least isn't in heat), or put a 421 orb in your face for an orb setup which sucks a lot. the solution works for getting in because Kouma doesn't have any "nice" clean options, but better aokos (and there are a number of them around) will have you covered on 22b.
XieXie, that's actually pretty damn nifty. I wouldn't have thought of using his regular throw that way. I'm not going to use it myself though because I don't play anyone who makes really stupid techs XD and I still sort of like my options after a command grab (grabbing without followup is so useless in the corner compared to what it usually gives you that the "down" followup actually shines a little more in this situation)
Range and recovery on regular throw is still waaaay better than A grab, so whenever your opponent has -that- much life left, regular throw is still good.
-
Post air throwing an opponent, what do you guys do to control the flow of the match? That is, what do you guys do to keep on the offensive? The wakeup for an opponent after air throw isn't long, which limits Kouma's options against a downed opponent. Personally, I use his dash-up mixup and the sjbd Oki the most, but both of them are pretty fallible against certain situations. So what do you guys do? I most often lose the flow to wakeup reversal back (or even forward) dash/runs, which is kinda anoying...
-
When I do airthrow (rarely to occaisionally), I just go straight for dash-in.
Beating backdashes is pretty standard for Kouma. There are often backdashes you just can't beat unless they're in the corner, like the Shikis'. He has 236b for that extra reach, but nothing special like Sion's whip, a full screen projectile like Ciel's or MH's, mega far pokes like Wara or Nero, etc. Usually unless you're one of these characters you shouldn't be "guessing" backdash anyway, since them backdashing does still give you a bit of an advantage. Either you start to exit corner (which isn't as good of a thing for kouma than it is for other characters since he can do awesome shit inside corner) or they start getting closer to their corner. The disadvantage comes from characters that can keep Kouma very far away like MH (projectiles) or Ciel (throwing knives at the end of blockstrings, or even just for the hell of it). These are bad matchups and you just sort of have to find a way to deal with them :P
-
P.S. you guys should stop discussing how to beat Aoko since it's impossible. She's way too strong for you. That shit is BROKEN for realz. DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ATTEMPTING TO FORMULATE COUNTER STRATEGIES!!
On a more serious note:
1. Dash underneath orbs
2. hold block as you regain standing position and trigger the orbs
3. bara her in the face out of orb blockstun
4. ?? ??(do whatever else it is that kouma does. EX dunk a few times I guess?? ??)?? ??
5. PROFIT!
-
One thing I've begun to notice about Kouma is that (while totally obvious, but has to be said anyways to make a point) he's not really rushdown against a lot of characters. In fact, against a lot of the more powerful high priority/high speed characters, on a neutral momentum state (that is, no one is on offense or has frame advantage), there's not a whole lot he can do except get ready for a defense state, or attempt to shield through an opponent's offense (or try to win a battle of normals, which is futile against most characters). So on that note, anyone have any good
gimmicks tactics for baiting an opponent into making an offensive mistake that you can punish?
-
EX Dunk. Just do it.
:V
his EXes are really good, ex dunk beats poky players and gets you advantage, or you can 236b and 22c on block for a setup or continue and get knockdown on hit.
as for meterless options....you can grab if you're close enough, or in certain situations like if you're good and confident (and up against the right character) you can just block and bara A grab when a "MY-HUEJ-HITBOX-IS-IN-YOUR-FACE" move comes. alright, that's 50% meter, but you should have that much at least ;p but most of the time in a neutral situation it's just flat out RPS/guessing game with the exception that raw A grab isn't viable unless you're in their face, so you really just have to guess. 22a works sometimes because it has that hit of superarmor and is just fast enough not to be able to react to, but it puts you right back into that same neutral situation more often than not.
-
I haven't seen this anywhere yet, but this is some random
Gimmick tactic that I came up when netplaying the other day. If it's been posted elsewhere or is already known, then whoops.
5a Frame trap.
I don't particularly use this often myself, but basically, this is a block string that works when you are close enough to throw a point blank 2a against a crouching opponent. If the 2a hits, then combo. However, if the 2a is blocked, whiffing a 5a over a crouching opponent gives you a more difficult to read tick if your goal is to throw them. Basically what happens is, your 2a puts them in blockstun, the 5a whiffs, so you don't incur any more pushback, so if you were point blank when you fired off your 2a, you will still be in range to grab someone with 214a. If you do not want to go for the throw, or they manage to block your 5a, then you're back to doing your normal blockstring. Food for thought.
Works on:
Akiha Tohno
Akiha Vermillion
Arcueid
Warueid
Ciel
Warakia
Miyako
Hisui
Satsuki
Len
M. Hisui
It also sometimes works on White Len at certain ranges, which is funky, but there's no real point since the risk is pretty high.
-
Updated the matchup thread.
So very close to being complete.
-
Some stuff I recently noticed:
The 2A on wakeup (opponent wakeup, not your own. For your own wakeup guide watch S-Blade's new thread!) is good to confuse people sometimes. You dash in and spam 2AAAA, but only until they finally wakeup, then stop mashing 2A, you have several options considering who the opponent is and what he does. They think you start a blockstring but you don't. You have a damn short piece of a second to figure out what to to.
- Wakeup blocking enemies can be easily thrown with 214A.
- Wakeup 22A for Sacchin or 623A for Shiki/Nanaya etc (this clashframe instant shit) can be easily blocked and then you get a free BnB.
- Poking opponents you just block.
And the standard stuff, imitating a 2AAA on wakeup but doing a 214C finally, this is variable and I had good use of it until now. People get used to it, so sometimes really mash 2AAA if an enemy is knocked down.
:V
-
Can any1 suggest some good blockstrings w/ Kouma?
I have a problem w/ keeping up the pressure, either I get poked back or my 214a whiffs coz they jump out.
Any tips on keeping them on the defensive (so I can grab their ass)? ^^
Also, ex-grab misses on moves like Sion 2c and Warc 3c. Any others that I should watch out for?
-
He doesn't have any nice specific blockstring routines or even nice blockstring enders. It isn't like, say, Nanaya where you use 2b when you're far, 2c and 5c to move forward, 5b as a clashy move and 236a/b pressure to move forward again. Generally you want your Kouma blockstrings to be short and frequent; you want them to be constantly afraid of you dashing in and grabbing you, whether you decide to on a certain iteration or not.
There are some other tricks to blockstrings and pressure:
-5a will whiff short crouchers
-5{c} looks very much like 214b
-2[c] moves you really far forward if they don't have any good far pokes, it's also +3
-5[c] will catch people who try and jump out of it
-There's always 236b 22c (on block) if you need it
-Also, 236b is very unsafe (like -12 or something) on block. However, the super-cancel window is really big, so if they are punishing it you can cancel into 214c really late to grab their poke. If you get this in their head, you can make 236b very powerful because it moves you forward, has a hit of superarmor, on hit leads into knockdown, and gives you this safety net on block.
-Tick throwing after dashing up is fine too.
-The way you prevent people from jumping out of your grab attempts is to 623a/b them out of the air. This forces them, when you approach, to either sit on the ground and guess what you're going to do, backdash (putting them closer to the corner which is great for you), or eat a DP and be put into the corner. However, watch out when people have high priority aerial moves or aerial projectiles, because they can easily start baiting your DPs. A lot of Kouma's bad matchups are with characters who can do this. You really just have to find an alternative depending on what exactly they're doing.
A good Kouma will not throw out pokes that he expects the opponent to block. A good Kouma will expect the opponent to block and disguise his grab attempt to seal the deal.
-
Thanks. This and the new blockstring thread are really helpful. ^^
Minor question. What's a good relaunch combo to do after 2b aerial counterhit?
From the few vids I've seen, I've adopted 2b(CH) xx 2b 5c j.c 236c(dunno if this is worth the meter rly ^^;).
I'm only able to do this half the time tho, the 2nd 2b timing is tricky and due to its chargeable nature, I sometimes accidentally hold 5c a frame too long (instead of just tapping it) and miss.
Any better combos/options? =D
-
The hardest is, on CH or wallslam from a grab, 2c xx 5b2b (5c?) 6c doublejump airfollowup of your choice. I personally like 2c xx 5c 6c followup, it works for me and has only two trouble spots (the 2c and the j.C)
It really doesn't matter too much what you do, it will either end in a knockdown (airthrow) which is good, or a good chunk of damage (j.236c). The damage differences between the two enders aren't that great, but what you can do off airthrow ender as oki isn't too much either.
Of course learning the harder ground combos before the followup is always helpful but I wouldn't get too picky about it.