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Offline Ceehill

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H-Mech Discussion
« on: November 27, 2009, 07:30:27 AM »
(This guide is intended to be a perpetual work in progress, and will be updated and changed as deemed necessary by player input, metagame/character evolution, and my increasing experience with H-Mech.)

There's not a whole lot of discussion on H-Mech here, let's get some started!

Pros:
-Long range normals and an arsenal of projectiles/summons allow you to control space effectively and pressure your opponent from generally outside their own range.
-Surprising abare for a "zoning" character; BnBs can reach upwards of 3.5-4.5k, while random poke xx 623B can get about 3k on its own.
-Relatively small execution barrier; you need to improvise sometimes to avoid dropping your combos, but...it's not as though there's anything huge to overcome beyond a general level of comfort with the game itself.
-Has pretty decent mix-up tools with moves like j.C and 2A/2B, and can even get a sandoori off of her throw if you manage to land one.
-Has access to a huge arsenal of moves leading to untechable knockdowns, giving you a number of opportunities to apply said mix-ups.
-Has several uses for meter, but never really needs it for one particular thing (except probably Shield Bunker).
-Half-moon seems to be, at the moment, a relatively underutilized style in comparison to C-Mech, giving you an extra slight edge via the gimmick factor.

Cons:
-Generally outclassed by Crescent-style Mech; while this is something to be aware of, it is a bit of a moot point as you should always play what you enjoy and feel comfortable with, especially in a game as balanced as Actress Again.
-Third lowest overall defense in the game.
-Half-moon specific mechanics seem more beneficial towards rushdown characters, and IMHO don't really mesh well with a style like Mech's; the loss of EX guard/EX shield in particular really seems to hurt Mech, as it leaves her with few options to escape pressure/guard crush.
-Limited options to escape on wake-up, backdash being the only one that doesn't require meter.
-A number of Mech's more frequently used moves in pressure are either relatively long start-up or multiple hits; as such, anyone can mash to reduce damage in combos with fair success, and players skilled at EX guard will negate the risk of guard crush fairly quickly.

Normals:

5A: A forehead flick. Useful for tick throws, reverse beats, and other standard 5A applications. Range is pretty short, even as far as A moves are concerned.

2A: Hits low, spammable. Used as combo filler as well as everything mentioned for 5A. Pretty nice 2A.

6AA: Standard H-moon follow-up to 5A; first hit moves her forward a bit, second hit floats. Somewhat useful early in pressure strings. You shouldn't *really* be close enough to your opponent often enough to make real liberal use of this, but if you do land the last hit for some reason, cancel it into 2[C] 5C 6C for an air combo, or 2[C] 5C 623C for an untechable knockdown.

5B: Long reaching forward poke, range is significantly longer than C-Mech's 5B. Good for zoning and just being annoying, however this can be crouched under and as such you might want to stick with 2B for stuff like this. Chain into 2B if you think you're close enough for it to connect, and/or buffer in a 623B/236A/B if you're going to throw this out.

2B: Hits low. Great poke, has the same forward range as 5B. Combos from 2As and deep j.Cs, among other things. Like 5B, buffer in 623B/236A/B if you're poking with this from about max range. Keep in mind the scaling on this isn't fantastic (I think it prorates around 80%) but really this should still be one of your go-to pokes on the ground.

4B: Mech shoots fire out of her hands. Ehhhhh. Has a good amount of active frames and is alright on block, but H-Mech generally has safer/more effective tools for that kind of thing anyway.

5C: Standard Mech chainsaw swing. Hits up to 4 times, though you will typically be aiming for three hits in your BnB due to pushback. 5[C] has some application in pressure as a stagger, but it creates a hole in your blockstrings so don't get predictable with it.

2C: Standard Mech trip. Hits low, causes an untechable knockdown. As with 5[C], 2[C] has some application in pressure as a stagger, but it creates a hole in your blockstrings so don't get predictable with it.

6C: Launcher, air blockable. I rarely use this in lieu of 2C 214A to go into an air combo, but it does have some application in Air CH combos and the like. This move can be canceled into a superjump relatively easily by tapping and holding [8] immediately upon hitting with it.

j.A: Standard fast, short range aerial poke. Using this for counterpoking is a bit risky, due to its less than spectacular hitbox and the risk of anti-A armor. Still sees some use as combo filler, though.

j.B: Long range attack hitting downward in front of Mech. Very nice for air to ground zoning (or air to air if you're above your opponent). Buffer in a 236A/623B when throwing this out from about max range, depending on your position relative to your opponent's.

j.C: Used in her mix-up and in air combos. Can be charged for more damage (not terribly practical) or for j.[C] feint shenanigans.

j.2C: Flamethrower, hits mid. j.236x hits in basically the same area as this relative to Mech, and feels a lot safer IHMO since you retain your double jump/airdash options afterward.

Throw (4/6A+D while on the ground): Grants an untechable knockdown. Recovers immediately (no exaggeration), but cannot be followed up upon with a combo as the opponent is put in an unhittable state until their wake-up. More on this in the mix-ups section.

Air Throw (4/6A+D while in the air): Techable on the ground just before Mech fully recovers, giving you tech punish opportunities if you react quickly enough. I'll go over those in their own section. Regardless of whether you input 4A+D or 6A+D, this move will always finish with Mech facing the opposite direction as before the airthrow. This generally means you will be facing away from the corner, but that's not necessarily as bad as it sounds.

Shield Bunker (214D): 214A animation, costs 100% meter and comes out very fast. This can be baited, but is generally H-Mech's most reliable option for getting out of pressure.

Shield Counters: High shield counter is the 6C animation, and launches the opponent for a combo. Low shield counter is the 2C animation and grants an untechable knockdown, follow-up with a 63214A maid summon for oki. For the sake of completion, aerial shield counter is the Crescent-Mech j.B animation, although it's not cancelable on hit and following it up is limited to CHs and specific spacing.
 
Specials:

236x Series: A series of projectiles. 236A fires a drill that hits 4 times and homes in just a bit on your opponent towards the end of its flight. B variant travels slightly faster than 236A, hits once, and is air unblockable. These are pretty useful for zoning and gapping, but can be punished if you get predictable. EX version travels very quickly and grants an untechable knockdown on ground hit, and I've actually had a fair amount of success using it as a mid-full screen punish against things like Nero summons, Len's black cat, and the like.

236236C: An interesting EX move that fires a projectile appearing to move slightly faster than 236C.  This could probably also see some use as a mid-full screen punish against laggier set-up strategies, but both are a bit unwieldy so use at your own discretion and certainly don't let yourself get predictable.  Other than that, I haven't been able to find any other uses for this move, much less any properties other than speed that set it apart from 236C.

623x/j.623x Series: A series of long reaching lightning attacks. The grounded versions are air-unblockable. Great to buffer into while poking, also useful as block string finishers as they stuff jump-outs and, despite appearing to be disadvantageous on block, are very safe from max range. Be aware that there's a dead spot that extends a bit out in front of Mech, although you really shouldn't be using this from anywhere near that close anyway. Ground EX version knocks down and is untechable, air EX version floats a bit and is techable in the air.

214x Series: Mech dashes forward, delivering a 7 hit attack that is jump-cancelable on hit but not on block. A version is a staple in her BnB. B variant has too long of a start-up to have a whole lot of combo potential. It can be used in pressure strings from time to time as it covers forward space and isn't too bad on block, but I don't recommend using it a whole lot since it can be jumped/EXed out of on reaction. EX version is invincible until the active frames start up, and it can trade/beat a lot of things (think Satsuki 214C in terms of application) to get you out of pressure (please don't abuse this). It also wallslams, and can be followed up with 5A --> air combo in the corner, but the timing/spacing is very strict.

j.236x series: Aerial beam which hits downward at a shallow angle in front of Mech. A version hits once and is comboable from j.B. B version hits twice, but is slow to start up and cannot combo from j.B except on CH. EX version floats the opponent a bit, but is techable in the air. It's also important to note that you can use your double jump/air dash after these, provided you have not used them already.

63214A: Summons a maid assist (like her arc drive, except only one maid) which travels quickly across the ground. Great to use as a meaty, as it will absorb one hit for you and make your opponent weary to try jump-outs/reversals. Can also trade with jump-ins from certain distances.  This can also be used from about full screen while at neutral, as it will often manipulate your opponent into jumping.

63214B: Summons a flying maid that travels in a crescent arc downward across the screen. A tool that covers one of Mech's few weak spots, the area directly above her. Nice to use as preemptive anti-air, or to catch air-techs, forcing them to block, or just to be as annoying as possible. Using this while your opponent is in the air can either force them to block/shield or blow their second jump/air dash, and as such can really mess with their spacing and approach.

63214C: Summons a fighter jet, which takes its sweet time descending towards the ground and charging up in preparation to fire several beam shots. From my (limited) experience with this move, you're rarely going to have to time to get this out safely/effectively unless you're at full screen. Forces the opponent to block for a long time if you actually manage to hit with it, and late jump-outs can set up some guard break situations. I've actually been meaning to experiment with this a bit more to punish jumps, even though Arc Drive is probably more reliable for this.

41236C: Arc drive, usable while in HEAT mode. Same as Mech's other styles, arguably one of the better arc drives in the game. Despite being air-blockable, it is great for punishing jumps as it can easily lead to guard break situations. Also adds to H-Mech's already staggering arsenal of moves that do huge guard bar damage to your opponent.

Combos:
(All damage tested on Sion. Values marked "reduced damage" indicate combo performed with 100% damage reduction)

2A 2A 2B (2 hits) 5C 2C 214A jc j.AAC dj.AAC Air Throw (3953 damage, 2813 reduced damage)

H-Mech's BnB. Most of your combos are going to be this or a variant of this. Very solid damage, netting anywhere from 3.5k to 5k depending on the character and whether or not you started with a jump-in.  Omit one of the 2As if you started the combo from a j.C.  You can also do dj.BC Air Throw as a finisher for a bit more damage, but the timing is kind of awkward in comparison if you haven't already practiced it.

5A 6AA 2[C] 5C 6C sjc.BC dj.BC Air Throw (4621 damage, 3259 reduced damage)

Combo off of 6AA.  This does significantly more damage than the above BnB; however, H-Mech gets pushed out of 5A range very quickly, and as such it can only be applied reliably after a very quick hit confirm, usually after a jump-in or a 2A 2A with some sort of forward momentum.  Look to use this when you can, but if you have any doubts as to whether or not you'll be in range for the 5A just play it safe and use the regular BnB.  If you want an untechable knockdown for oki, cancel 5C into 623C for a nice damage combo ender.

5B/2B 623B {623c} (2903/2660 damage, 2027/1857 reduced damage)

Believe it or not, depending on the pace of a given round this might be where the bulk of your damage comes from. A solid 2.5k-3k from a poke and a buffered 623B is certainly nothing to scoff at. Whether or not you want to spend the meter on the 623C finisher is up to you; it does a nice extra chunk of damage and knocks down. If you're going for the EX finisher, you'll want to cancel 623B on the 5th, or next to last, hit. This is important, as you can drop your combo if you cancel it on the last hit.

j.B j.236A {236C/623C} (1595 damage, 1116 reduced damage)

Same idea as above, except used in the air when the opponent is below you. 623B will connect in lieu of 236A if you're not too far up above your opponent. The damage isn't quite as high as before but it's still nothing to scoff at from a random j.B poke. EX follow-up does about 900-1000 extra damage, but your opponent is floated a bit and can tech in the air afterward.

Air CH --> 2C 5C 6C sj.AC dj.BC Air Throw

Very basic combo off a counterhit in the air, most often from 63214B or j.A.  Throw out your 2C a bit earlier than you think you would need to, since the start-up is kind of long.  This is also the combo you use off a connected high shield counter.  Keep in mind that your air throw is going to leave you facing the direction opposite of the one you started the combo, so if you want to switch sides before the 2C or something, you probably want to position yourself so the combo itself is moving them out of the corner.

Punishing Techs:

After an airthrow, your opponent is able to tech just before you fully recover. While the usual follow-up for oki is to do 63214A maid summon for a meaty, if you're quick to react to their tech you have some pretty good options to punish them:

Forward Tech: 2AA into your BnB, rinse and repeat. This is a good opportunity to utilize the 6AA BnB.
Neutral Tech: In most cases, neutral techs leave your opponent just out of range for 2A.  That being the case, 2B seems like the most reliable tech punish in this situation as it leads to a BnB.
Backwards Tech: Since your airthrow leaves you fairly close to your opponent, Mech can utilize the crazy range on her 5B/2B to punish backwards techs midscreen. Buffer these into 623B for a nice 3k damage. The timing on this is rather strict, however, but the worst case scenario if you're a bit late is you force your opponent to block. Finish with 623C for an extra 1k damage and an untechable knockdown if you feel like spending the meter.

After a bit of conditioning, your opponent to will likely elect to respect your tech punishing capabilities, allowing you to summon a maid and begin your mix-up/pressure off knockdowns.

Mix-ups/Okizeme:
I figured I should clean this section up a bit and make it a bit more appealing to read, rather than just listing out mix-ups off given options in a wall of text without any explanation. This is, after all, one of H-Mech's biggest strengths over other styles IMHO.

-Off a Throw
Mech-Hisui's throw gives her a ton of time to set up okizeme as it recovers immediately and puts the opponent in an untechable state.  The following mix-up options can be applied off of knockdowns generated from other hits/combo finisherss, but for the sake of communicating everything clearly and ease of practice these are all going to assume you just threw your opponent.  Off a knockdown from an air throw or 623C for example, you might have to freestyle a bit to adjust for your spacing, i.e. doing a running jump or a super jump where you wouldn't normally.

6A+B 3214A: Input this immediately after a throw in order to get a dashing maid summon, which moves you closer to your opponent and makes it easier to time the maid to hit meaty. With practice, you should easily get used to timing the maid to hit meaty from different parts of the screen.

After summoning a maid, you have a number of options. Note that a "j.[C] feint" refers to charging the move long enough to where it never actually comes out before you land.

Regular jump forward:
Probably the safest mix-up off a blocked maid.  While you don't get a cross-up option, the pushback from blocking 63214A spaces you pretty well for a deep aerial follow-up, allowing you to work with high/low feint shenanigans and fuzzy guard strings.

Basic mix-up options:
-(High) j.C
-(Low) j.[C] feint, land 2B
-(Throw) j.[C] feint, land and throw
-(Throw) j.C, land, dash forward and throw

Advanced mix-up options:
-(High) j.B/j.C, airdash forward j.C
-(Low) j.B/j.C, airdash forward j.[C] feint, land 2B
-(Throw) j.B/j.C, airdash forward j.[C] feint, land and throw
-(What is this I don't even) j.B/j.C, airdash forward j.C, doublejump backward j.B

Super jump Forward:
Super jump mix-ups after a blocked maid allow you the luxury of a cross-up option at the cost of leaving a slightly larger gap in between the maid hitting and your mix-up. While this doesn't make them impractical or even terribly unsafe, be aware that they rely a bit on fear and as such should be used sparingly and only when you've established that your opponent is respecting your mix-up.

These are fun mix-ups as the pushback of the blocked maid makes the visual which-way game very confusing for your opponent, but make sure to practice these and become comfortable with the timing since the pushback can screw you up just as badly if you don't prepare for it accordingly.

Un-cross-up options:
Superjump forward...
-(High) Airdash backward, j.C
-(Fuzzy) Airdash backward, j.C, doublejump backward j.B
-(Low) Airdash backward, j.[C] feint, land 2B
-(Throw) Airdash backward, j.[C] feint, land and throw
-(Throw) Airdash backward, j.C, land, dash forward and throw

Cross-up options:
Superjump forward, jump backward (to switch directions), airdash backward...
-(High) j.C
-(Low) j.[C] feint, land 2B
-(Throw) j.[C] feint, land and throw
-(Throw) j.C, land, dash forward and throw

(See http://www.meltybread.com/forums/game-engine-mechanics/what%27s-a-sandoori/ for a better explanation of the technique.)

-Off a knockdown with no maid summon:
After some knockdowns such as an air throw, you might be looking for a tech and as such be a bit hesitant to commit to summoning a maid right away. In this case, you can still get a meaty and a decent mix-up just by doing the old MBAC Kouma sandoori.

A quick rundown of the basic options:
Dash forward, jump:
-(Un-cross-up) Airdash backward, j.C (high)
-(Un-cross-up) Airdash backward, j.C, doublejump backward j.B (fuzzy)
-(Un-cross-up) j.[C] feint, land 2B (low)
-(Un-cross-up) j.[C] feint, land and throw (throw)
-(Un-cross-up) j.C, land, dash forward and throw (throw)
-(Cross-up) Jump backward, Airdash backward, j.C (high)
-(Cross-up) Jump backward, Airdash backward, j.[C] feint, land 2B (low)
-(Cross-up) Jump backward, Airdash backward, j.[C] feint, land and throw (throw)
-(Cross-up) Jump backward, Airdash backward, j.C, land, dash forward and throw (throw)

You get the idea by now.

A few things to note:
-If your opponent gets tagged by the maid because they were not blocking for whatever reason, doing the normal jump mix-up allows you to hit confirm into j.AC dj.BC Airthrow. Nothing fancy, just get them back on the ground and back in your oki.
-Against Aoko, Nanaya, and Tohno Shiki, Mech can actually dash underneath them after a grab before they land, granting the possibility for some nasty which-way shenanigans. Keep that in mind when fighting these three so it doesn't mess you up when you see it.
-Fuzzy guard mix-ups involving j.C doublejump backwards j.B can be followed up with 236A 236C if your opponent was hit standing for whatever reason, or against taller characters in a crouching state if you're spaced well. These mix-ups are strong when the j.B can finish off your opponent, but generally you'll have better follow-up options off other mix-ups/pressure strings.
-If you suspect an activation, don't be afraid to use your second jump/airdash when applicable (i.e. doing jump forward, airdash back, double jump straight up/back in lieu of j.C or whatever you were going to do) in order to avoid and punish it. Potentially dropping your oki when you guess wrong sucks, but not necessarily as much for H-Mech as it does for other characters, since Mech can pressure/zone/make the opponent block something from a distance (and negate a good bit of their regen from heat if they manage to get it off somehow). Just revert back to zoning/annoying mode, and look for an opportunity to land a poke/punish a mistake into a knockdown.

Application:
In this section, I'll attempt to outline some tactics and strategies specific towards different states of the match, and how to reverse/maintain the flow of the match to keep it in your favor.

At Neutral:
At any point where the match resets to neutral, as H-Mech you are generally at an advantage against most of the cast with the ability to poke and keep stuff out on the screen without putting your hitbox at risk. 236A/B and 63214A summons are safe and effective ways of controlling the ground from afar; 63214B is a bit more risky as it leaves the area in front of you wide open, but recovers fairly quickly and is good for controlling the air if your opponent decides to jump. 5B and 2B are long range, disjointed ground pokes, allowing you to stuff pokes/setups from about half screen while buffering into 236A/B, 623A/B, 63214A/B, etc.  Should you get forced into the air for whatever reason, j.B, j.236A/B, and j.623A/B are all fairly safe zoning options, although, on top of the general added risks of being in the air, you are a bit more limited in what space you are able to control. (WTB aerial maid summons in FT :V) Jump backwards j.B is also a nice option to have against characters who close space on the ground quickly and make summoning a bit more risky.

Against other characters with long-range zoning strategies, 236C and 236236C can be used to stuff laggier set-ups, such as Nero summons, F-Moon meter charge, etc.  The timing for this can be a bit strict depending on what you're trying to punish, though, and should probably be used sparingly since you don't want to drop the meter for nothing.

At this stage of the match, you are also free to decide whether you want to play an active or reactive type of strategy. With maid summons and projectiles being able to control both the ground and the air, you can use your tools in a reactive manner to annoy and disrupt your opponent depending on their location and means of approach.  While that's not to imply that you act *only* in response to what your opponent does (that's essentially how you wind up getting baited and allowing your opponent to control the match), you can sometimes use a reactive approach to force your opponent to make the first move, allowing you to fish for counter hits with moderate success, or attempt to force them to block something and begin your momentum from there.

However, there are instances and match-ups where such an approach becomes impractical, and in those situations it becomes necessary to take more of an initiative in controlling space.  Examples of this could range from a Nanaya who uses his j.22 fastfall in response to 63214B maid summons for free pressure, to an F-Aoko throwing hadoukens and limiting your opportunities to take control of the ground.  Alternately, you can just rush that shit down and force them to block something, and this can catch opponents by surprise if they expect only to have to worry about closing space themselves.    

Basically, if there's one thing to take from all of this, it's that you should never pass up an opportunity to begin your pressure safely, but as a longer range character you really don't have to worry so much about getting in your opponent's face as much as you would on the other end of the stick, so take advantage of that as you see fit.

On Offense:
Generally, at any point where an opponent blocks a 236A or (from some ranges) 63214A, or gets counter-hit out of the air (in most cases, by 63214A/B), you are free to follow-up and begin your pressure. Your main concerns at this point include using gaps and projectiles to close space, and to either keep your opponent locked down in blockstun or capitalize once they fall for frame traps/jump baits.

From further out, 5B and 2B are once again tools of choice for keeping an opponent in blockstun from a distance.  Generally, canceling into 236A/B is your best option out of these, while reverse chaining into 5A/2A to close more space is used sparingly. 236A hits 4 times and gives very nice frame advantage on block, but travels slowly and and is easy to jump out of on reaction from longer ranges. Mix up with 236B, which travels quickly and is air-unblockable, to stuff jumps and keep them honest. While it's possible to continue pressure off 236B, be aware that timing is a bit more strict.  623A/B can also stuff jumps and has the added distinction of comboing from a random 5B/2B hit, but puts you at a slight frame disadvantage when blocked and as such will generally signify the end of your pressure for the moment.

While H-Mech doesn't quite instill fear up close like close-range specialists such as V-Sion and Miyako, 5A and 2A are both +frames on block and can be used to stagger early in block strings and set up tick-throws, leading to some nasty mix-ups. Moves like 5B/2B and 5C/2C are strong moves in blockstrings but push Mech out of close range fairly quickly; the above tactics still apply for closing that space and continuing pressure.

If at any point you doubt whether or not you can reset your pressure safely, just play it safe and revert back to neutral.  You'll still likely be at an advantage given your range, and the last thing you want to do is hand over momentum to your opponent, as will be discussed in the next section.

TL;DR Make them get impatient, get that knockdown, do your mix-up, then do it all again.

On Defense:
With the third lowest overall defense in the game and a limited palette of escape options, H-Mech has a bit of a hard time dealing with heavy rushdown characters if they manage to get on top of you.  Being able to escape pressure is going to rely a lot on being patient, blocking properly, and reacting to gaps and reverse beats quickly enough to sneak out via a backdash (a bit risky), a jump (risky), or a quick 2A (very risky).  Shielding is also an option, but should probably be used sparingly since there's no held shield in half moon and your opponent can bait you out by delaying their hit or changing up their strings.  

If you have meter to spend, shield bunker can be used somewhat reliably as an escape tool as long as you're careful not to get baited.  I don't recommend using 214C any more than once in a blue moon; it is invincible on start-up and has a large disjointed hitbox in front of it, but is kind of slow and can get jumped easily if your opponent hasn't already committed to a move.  You're gonna feel really foolish dropping half a bar of meter only to give your opponent a free combo, trust me. :/

If you're in heat mode while getting up or when you see a gap in a blockstring, Arc Drive is about as close to a get out of jail free card as you're going to get. You shouldn't really feel bad spending the meter on this, since it is a great GTFO move.

Your safest strategy though is probably just to have knowledge of your match-ups.  Know which of your opponent's moves are unsafe on block, and look for longer start-up moves if you want to attempt a shield safely (Nero 4C and V-Sion 6C respectively come to mind as examples).  While I know I'm probably repeating myself a bit, it really needs to be emphasized that you're going to have to have a lot of patience while on defense with this character; while H-moon can't EX guard in order to keep their guard bar up, it does have a significantly longer guard bar from the start, giving you a bit more time to look for your ticket out.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 12:37:17 AM by Ceehill »

Offline Ceehill

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Re: H-Mech Discussion
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2009, 07:37:32 AM »
Videos:
(will be updated as necessary)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwa9Yl67_ww&feature=related <--- H-Mech OCV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMIduToC-lY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZheHcPdkWE
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8847758 <---H-Mech comes in at about 16:10.

At the moment, Niiya seems to be the main H-Mech player around. If anyone manages to dig up any more videos, I'll be updating this post to keep things organized.

Also, please post any feedback you might have regarding the contents of the guide. I will edit it according to player consensus in order to keep the information as accurate as possible, and, as I'm fairly new to the game myself, any thoughts/questions/input/criticism is welcome.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 03:41:31 AM by Ceehill »

Offline Tonberry

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Re: H-Mech Discussion
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 04:56:16 PM »
Quote from: Ceehill
236236C: An interesting EX move that fires a projectile appearing to move slightly faster than 236C.  This could probably also see some use as a mid-full screen punish against laggier set-up strategies, but both are a bit unwieldy so use at your own discretion and certainly don't let yourself get predictable.  Other than that, I haven't been able to find any other uses for this move, much less any properties other than speed that set it apart from 236C.

You can combo into 236236c to push someone into the corner.

2a 2b 5c(3) 5a(may/may not whiff) 6a 6a 2[c] 236236c.  If you were in max, you can also safely setup 63214c if you have enough space(Mecha needs to be a bit behind midscreen when combo starts for setting it up to be safe.)  

If you were not in max you can still setup 236a or 63214a to hit meaty and send out a 236b after that in case your opponent wants to move.  

Shield combo after 5d in corner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqn6LfTp9FE#t=0m27s
The combo isn't done off shield counter but the only practical way to do it is off shield counter.  Notation is 5d 63214b 6c 63214b 2[c] delay 5a6aa j[c] ja j623c 236236c.  I've gotten up to ja but whiffed it and you get 3201 damage on Riesbyfe up to that far.  I might try to finish it later but it's an obnoxious combo to do even up to there.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 11:47:39 AM by Tonberry »
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[22:40] <bellreisa> i'm an insane murderer who is overwhelmed by nihilism but that's ok cause i'm in love

Offline Ceehill

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Re: H-Mech Discussion
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 07:37:20 PM »
That's a good point regarding 236236C, I honestly hadn't thought of that.  Generally, when I spend meter on an EX finisher midscreen, I opt for something like:

2A 2B 5C(3 hits) 2C 623B(6 hits) 623C

...since you get a meaty 63214A + superjump oki afterward, although I might have to rethink all that now, knowing you can put your opponent in the corner virtually at a whim from most parts of the screen.  I'd argue that ending with 236236C from some ranges puts them too far away and forfeits too much mix-up, but H-Mech out-classes so many characters at neutral anyway that knocking them away would probably even be optimal in matches where you need to play more conservatively (thinking mostly of characters with dangerous reversal options such as Nanaya, Kouma, etc).

Not really saying that either is correct 100% of the time, in the end I guess it's up to the player to decide what will put them in the better position judging from the situation at hand.

Shield combo after 5d in corner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqn6LfTp9FE#t=0m27s
The combo isn't done off shield counter but the only practical way to do it is off shield counter.  Notation is 5d 63214b 6c 63214b 2[c] delay 5a6aa j[c] ja j623c 236236c.  I've gotten up to ja but whiffed it and you get 3201 damage on Riesbyfe up to that far.  I might try to finish it later but it's an obnoxious combo to do even up to there.

Lol, I tried this for a few days and never even got close to finishing it.  Still, it's good to know you can combo into 63214B from a 5D in the corner.  A more match-practical, scrubby-mode variation might be something like:

5D 63214B (delay) 2[C] 5C (3 hits) 6C sjc.BC sdj. BC Air Throw (does ~3570 unreduced to Ries, iirc)

For whatever reason, I can't hit the 63214B 6C 63214B part anywhere close to consistently, probably due to being limited to one maid assist on the screen at a time.  If you can hit that part though, you could probably throw that into the above combo for even more damage.

Offline Tonberry

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Re: H-Mech Discussion
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 10:43:13 PM »
That's a good point regarding 236236C, I honestly hadn't thought of that.  Generally, when I spend meter on an EX finisher midscreen, I opt for something like:

2A 2B 5C(3 hits) 2C 623B(6 hits) 623C

...since you get a meaty 63214A + superjump oki afterward, although I might have to rethink all that now, knowing you can put your opponent in the corner virtually at a whim from most parts of the screen.  I'd argue that ending with 236236C from some ranges puts them too far away and forfeits too much mix-up, but H-Mech out-classes so many characters at neutral anyway that knocking them away would probably even be optimal in matches where you need to play more conservatively (thinking mostly of characters with dangerous reversal options such as Nanaya, Kouma, etc).

Yeah, to be honest, I agree that ending with 236236c is not the greatest idea most of the time.  I usually like to play conservative with meter and only really burn it on bunker, arc drive, and to hitconfirm 623b with 623c with her.  However, like you mentioned, in matchups you don't want to deal with your opponent having a lame reversal with H-mech having paper defense or in matchups where you rather just zone them anyways, 236236c ender is a good alternative.

Lol, I tried this for a few days and never even got close to finishing it.  Still, it's good to know you can combo into 63214B from a 5D in the corner.  A more match-practical, scrubby-mode variation might be something like:

5D 63214B (delay) 2[C] 5C (3 hits) 6C sjc.BC sdj. BC Air Throw (does ~3570 unreduced to Ries, iirc)

For whatever reason, I can't hit the 63214B 6C 63214B part anywhere close to consistently, probably due to being limited to one maid assist on the screen at a time.  If you can hit that part though, you could probably throw that into the above combo for even more damage.

I did some more testing and it appears that the second 63214b doesn't universally hit.  On Ries and Wara it does and it probably doesn't on Nero or it's really hard on him.  If you were on someone it works on though, I'm gonna guess that you're doing the first 63214B too late or the 6c too early.  The first 63214b should be input so it comes out right after shield counter hits, then you should take a slight step backwards and do 6c as late as possible into 63214b asap.
[01:08] <Komidol> that marisa cosplayer that took my registration was sexy
[15:24] <Rokunaya> i've actually reached the point where some voice actors sound familiar in animes
[22:40] <bellreisa> i'm an insane murderer who is overwhelmed by nihilism but that's ok cause i'm in love

Offline E.D

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Re: H-Mech Discussion
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 05:19:27 AM »
236236C also combo from 623b so if you really want them in the corner you could use that instead of 623C.
Or if you have the meter to burn and it will kill i guess you can do 

623B 623C 236236C

it's a bit more damage i think but the combo only works in heat so you could save the meter and do AD instead.
but if it will kill them i guess it's the way to go.

Offline Komidol

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Re: H-Mech Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 03:25:08 AM »
 
I want this move back in the game.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 04:46:27 AM by こはく愛 »
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Offline ehrik

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Re: H-Mech Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 11:46:18 AM »
Thats her LA iirc
<Graven> When you are Ciel, don't try to win, don't even try to do anything. The more you do, the stupider and bigger faggot you become because you're using Ciel.
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