Playing Melty Blood with an arcade stick?

[Belegorm]

Ok guys, let me begin by saying that while I've had a mayflash arcade stick for awhile now, I've never gotten particularly good with it in any fighting game.  Part of this is due to the fact that the stock stick and buttons are fairly crappy, but more importantly learning the arcade stick is almost as hard as learning Melty Blood.  In the past I had given up on learning to use it for CvS2 and KOF, but now I decided to try Melty Blood.

Any idea how long it'd probably take to get really used to this thing?  If reaching the level I'm at with a controller will take a year of training, I'm not completely sure it's worth it (however, I'm thinking it won't take quite that long).

Any ideas on how exactly to hold the stick?  I rest the left side of my hand on the body of the thing and grasp the ball (Japanese style stick), between thumb and index fingers.  The problem is that double-tapping left is a LOT harder than double-tapping right (though at least I seem to be able to IAD as easily as with the pad - which is not very reliably).

Lastly, I'm thinking of modding this thing.  Anyone know what kind of stick and buttons I should get?  I also have zero experience in soldering, and using a dremel saw.  Is there going to be anyone at NECX that could possibly help me mod it?  I'd bring the parts and tools and someone could help me do it.  I've seen a pictoral tutorial on shoryuken, but while it's supposed to be an easy stick to mod, I'm still quite afraid of messing up.

[Legendary Blue Shirt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLTa_eBLAo

Finally this video is useful!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsME37GrqjY&feature=related

[Remxi]

The stock parts on the mayflash are really terrible and are just going to be a hindrance to learning. E.g. you are talking about double-tapping but no way are the mayflash buttons sensitive enough for that to be any use. If you wanna mod it, it's pretty easy. You want OBSF-30 buttons, these are the snap in ones and will fit right into the holes that old mayflash buttons left (after you sand them a mm or so using a file or dremel). The JLF-TP-8Y also screws right into the places left when you remove the mayflash stick. I learnt soldering to do it and managed to get it done without too much trouble even though I had to redo a bunch of connections 'cause they fell off later on...

tl:dr yes it's worth learning stick especially if you play other fighters, but you don't want your equipment to prevent you from improving

[Coren]

Well personally I think MBAC is a game that plays better on a pad (unless you play aoko), as you will find yourself mashing a lot and the input windows are quite short as compared to other games.

However, MBAA is a perfectly fine game to play on stick, many of the elements that lead to MBAC being a 'pad game' are gone. I play MBAA on a stick; but Press plays on pad, and he's way better.

[Belegorm]

When I said double-tapping I meant hitting the stick twice to the right or twice to the left to dash.  Guess I should have been clearer, sry.

Edit: I started practicing a combo in MBAA with the stick, and using the wineglass really helped!  At this pace I'll be able to do the combo well enough faster than it took me to learn it on pad (though I still flub it sometimes on pad).  Double-tapping the stick left to dash left is still harder than to do it right, but I guess I'll get used to it in time.

One problems is that while my left thumb is now getting a break (not to mention the wrist), my right arm feels kinda uncomfortable.  I've got 6 as A, 7 as B, 8 as C, 2 as D, 4 as E.  Maybe I'll get used to it the way I got used to my wrist being uncomfortable with playing a 2d fighter on the pad.  What is your button setup, Remxi? (since it seems you have the same stick, modded).

Most importantly, where can I buy the new buttons and stick for a good price?

2nd Edit: I found them on Amazon, kinda expensive, though.  Then I found them on a website called gamingnow, and they appear to be cheaper.  Cheaper to buy 8 buttons separately in a colour I want than six together on amazon.  Then they have the stick cheaper too.  Anything else I'd need for the stick?

Oh, and what would be the best tutorial to follow to do it?

[Coren]

ABC
DXE

You have an arcade stick, macros are for fags  , I turn E off, never use that shit.

The equal access to each button and direction is the benefit of the stick, you want to either setup your buttons to give you equal access or use the arcade default above.

[motoh]

E is an arcade accurate button.  It handles most double button inputs very well, as sometimes you can be one frame off on A+C or somesuch and Melty will simply laugh at you while you get punished for your error.
~M

[Belegorm]

If the E button wasn't in the arcade, I wouldn't use it.  Since it is, I'm happy to take advantage of it (particularly considering that my crappy buttons make hitting three buttons at once difficult).

ABC
DXE

What the heck is the X supposed to be?

I know what the arcade setup for the buttons are, I was just wondering how other people have adapted it to their mayflash sticks, modded or not.  This is because the most obvious arrangement gives me some wierd pains in my fore-arm and I don't know if that'll go away or not once I get more accustomed to this thing.

[motoh]

X is nothing.  Null.

Try switching from inner six to outer six or vice versa.  Also, try sitting the stick some other way.  I've seen people play on the floor with their leg arced over the stick, putting it on the ground.

~M

[Remxi]

I didn't know what the arcade standard was when I started playing so I went with this:

ABE
CD

It's most comformatable for me since I'm used to a similar layout for KoF which is what I play most. I got my parts from akihabarashop.co.jp which was the cheapest place I could find them (I'm in Australia though, you might be able to find somewhere cheaper locally). At bare minimum to mod it you'll need a soldering iron, a file and some wire. There are a couple of tutorials on modding mayflash on the Tech Talk section of the Shoryuken forums and some others that I found using Google. There's also this thread on some local forums.

[Belegorm]

Crap, I just ran into a major hitch for my plan.  My dad just got home from a trip, and according to him, the only soldering iron we have is a crappy inprecise one, which could mess things up if used with an electronic project (doing stuff with circuit boards, etc.).

So unless I can find some way of acquiring a soldering iron, I'm going to have to shelve this idea

[Coren]

You can buy one at Radioshack for like $12 man, you won't need something fancy for a stick; it's not like you are doing audio wiring.

[Belegorm]

I found this video :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlnHh4KhfaQ and he used a crappy $8 radioshack soldering iron.  My dad actually said that's the one he has, one he got years ago and had some problems with, apparently, but while he's still skeptical I'm a bit more confident.  Not to mention there's that desoldering braid if we make a mistake...

He also had a link to another site for the stick and buttons, and it showed me the difference between the JLF sticks.  Only thing is, which of these JLF sticks should I use?  The guy in that vid used the JLF-TP-8T, and Remxi recommended the JLF-TP-8Y, and I think I've heard the JLF-TP-8YT mentioned as well...

Interesting that he mentioned he got that big kit with arcade stick parts at a oriental supermarket.  I know there's a Japanese market in Harrisburg, but I think they probably only sell food...

[Dartz]

just for curiosity but: where can i buy an Arcade stick? i would like to buy one at least to see how it works. The japanese players are very  good playing with it, and they don't seem to have trouble with that kind of stick. I have been practicing for a while with C-Arc, however i can't do the tiger knee TK63214B constantly since basically i have to do an entire circle on the pad, and i use one from ps2. Is a pity since i really wanted to play with C-Arc, but is not like my habilities to make combos are bad, because i learned all Arcueid posible combos on MBAC, is the ps2 pad that gives me trouble. With F-Arc and H-Arc i don't have particular inconvenients, and why Aoko is more easily used with a ps2 pad?

[Belegorm]

Well, I got my Mayflash stick off play-asia awhile back for like $50, with like $30 shipping.  Then I see it now on Amazon for like $32, with roughly $10 for shipping.  Figures.

The stock joystick and buttons mine comes with are pretty crappy, but it seems to work ok for me now with my matching crappy skills.  The case is very solid, it can be plugged into a ps2 or pc, with a converter it's supposed to work on dc, gc, xbox, and 360.  Plus, there's 8 buttons instead of 6, good to have some to spare to try out different arrangements.

However, by itself all the pros are outweighed by the terrible joystick and buttons (for crying out loud, a ball-top that constantly is trying to unscrew itself?).  This can be remedied by doing what I'm planning to do, to mod it putting in higher-quality sanwa or seimitsu joystick and buttons.  This is a bit complicated (it's scaring me a bit...) but it's supposed to be a great stick to mod.

Now, as your first stick I'm not sure you should follow my example and get this one, but this is the only one I can give a critique of, so maybe the others can give you advice on other sticks.  Hori are supposed to have good sticks.  If you're willing to mod, the Mayflash one can become a good stick (some people prefer it modded to many other good sticks, but not everyone wants to do some soldering and stuff like that.

Still trying to figure out which JLF stick would be best to get, btw.  Input appreciated on this would be appreciated

[Apocalypse]

I got my Mayflash off of Ebay for roughly $40, and had a friend replace the buttons with Seimitsu PS-14-KN, and the stick with a Sanwa  JLF-TP-8YT-SK.  He said it wasn't too difficult soldering wise (he was going off of a guide on SRK the entire time I believe), and it works beautifully.  I use it to play MB, GG, BB and the like.

If you don't want to solder or anything, you can look into getting a SF4 TE, but those are in the $130 region.

[Dartz]

allright thanks, one last question. What is the SF4 TE, is that basically a stick with Seimitsu buttons and Sanwa stick, so i don't have to do the soldering work?

[Belegorm]

Alright, I've pretty much got it down to between the JLF-TP-8Y (-SK?) and the JLF-TP-8YT-SK.  What's the differences between these?  According to Remxi, it seems the 8Y seems to fit in the holes left by the stock stick, which I don't know if the other one will.

BTW, what does pcb stand for?

[Coren]

PCB is electronics jargon for Printed Circuit Board: basically what the circuit of any commercial electronics is soldered to.

[Remxi]

Alright, I've pretty much got it down to between the JLF-TP-8Y (-SK?) and the JLF-TP-8YT-SK.  What's the differences between these?  According to Remxi, it seems the 8Y seems to fit in the holes left by the stock stick, which I don't know if the other one will.

BTW, what does pcb stand for?

The T means it has a rectangle metal mounting plate inbetween the top of the stick and the insides. I've seen someone use one of these on a mayflash but it means they had 4 screws protruding from the faceplate near the stick. Those three that you mentioned should all fit the holes left by the mayflash, the T will just make it harder to install (but probably a little more solid).

SK means shaft cover. It's a little plastic cylinder that fits over the shaft going to the balltop. Just preference really, I prefer just having the metal there as it's thinner without the shaft cover kit.

PCB = Printed Circuit Board iirc.

[Belegorm]

Alright, I've pretty much got it down to between the JLF-TP-8Y (-SK?) and the JLF-TP-8YT-SK.  What's the differences between these?  According to Remxi, it seems the 8Y seems to fit in the holes left by the stock stick, which I don't know if the other one will.

BTW, what does pcb stand for?

The T means it has a rectangle metal mounting plate inbetween the top of the stick and the insides. I've seen someone use one of these on a mayflash but it means they had 4 screws protruding from the faceplate near the stick. Those three that you mentioned should all fit the holes left by the mayflash, the T will just make it harder to install (but probably a little more solid).

SK means shaft cover. It's a little plastic cylinder that fits over the shaft going to the balltop. Just preference really, I prefer just having the metal there as it's thinner without the shaft cover kit.

PCB = Printed Circuit Board iirc.

Ah, thanks!  Thank God I didn't go ahead and order the thing, I don't think I'd be able to stand a shaft cover; I'm already starting to get used to my current thing that doesn't have it, using the wineglass grip.

Now I see what the T part means, but now I'm really unsure if I want the T or not... if I get the JLF-TP-8Y (without the plate), would it be possible to put the plate in later if it turns out that it's not solid enough?  Though you use the JLF-TP-8Y yourself, right Remxi?  Actually, I think that since you seem to have done it yourself and it turned out fine with the JLF-TP-8Y and OBSF-30 buttons (no question what buttons to use there), I'll get those.  Probably order them tomorrow evening (unless someone persuades me otherwise).

Does anyone know anything about using quick disconnects versus soldering the wires directly to the buttons?  That vid I watched the guy liked them since he can switch out buttons easily, but I'm not planning on replacing the buttons for a long time, or even putting on artwork (I like the simple black).

Finally, another question about holding the arcade stick.  I find the wineglass most comfortable, but should I have the back of my hand resting on the surface or raised off of it?  Do most people find it better to push the shaft further between middle and ring or leave it looser?  Should I keep my right wrist resting on the surface or keep it raised, like I'm playing a piano? (this last one kinda concerns me a bit since while I've been resting it on the surface, I've gotten the weird arm pains and I think it might lead to carpal tunnel - possibly).

[Coren]

Quick Disconnects are great because when your buttons break you can swap them out without REDOING ALL YOUR SOLDERING; and if you ever get sick of your current stick you can take the buttons and put them in a new one easily.

[Belegorm]

Crap, found out we're broke for probably the rest of the month.

[Belegorm]

Actually, I might get money before october, and I might not

More importantly, after practicing a combo a good deal in MBAA, I'm getting much more used to the thing.  Considering that even with the pad I never got too particularly good, I'm not going to have to go too far to catch up.  Right now I can sometimes do that combo to the right and sometimes to the left.  I found the wineglass hold weird (especially when facing left), but after I started figuring out that I needed to do more with my whole hand, wrist and arm (not just my thumb), it made more sense.  Also helps to keep my knuckles off the surface, especially when facing left.  Keep my right wrist on the surface, though.

Edit: after a lot of practice, I think in most areas I've exceeded my pad skills, and am now working on perfecting Akiha's difficult BNB.