Melty Bread Forums
Misaki Town Bakery => Melty Blood Auditorium => : zeech November 12, 2011, 04:40:45 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
-
Hi, over at SRK I was involved in a discussion about execution barriers in FG. Some people argued that arbitrarily tricky execution added not much to games and instead just made it less welcoming for new or casual players. Examples given were things like 360/720 motions, 1 frame links, pretzel motions. Some were refuted, like 360/720 motions have actual gameplay/strategy impacts. Of course, the usual elitist counterarguments were trotted out, regarding the dumbing down / casualisation of games, loss of depth and strategy, etc.
As for me, personally (i am a casual FG player since SF2/KOF94/VF1) I have been a bit angry at BB, where my main in BBCT (Tao) became so execution heavy in later games that combos became literally impossible for me with the amount of practice I am willing to put into that game. And where other characters have BnBs that are very character specific, very long, and/or contain difficult components that have no alternatives. And simplified versions of those combos are quite inferior in terms of damage, without those tricky components.
So anyways, in that thread I used Melty as an ultimate counterexample. Its a game with simplified and standardised move motions, and a generous buffer system that lets you cancel pretty much anything into anything. You can pick a character like WArc and be doing optimal damage just with basic ABC j ABC j ABC airthrow style combos (well, warc is j B C but you get what I mean), and that combo pattern works on any target. Also, most characters in the game can do that type of combo, and still do reasonable damage. It's pretty easy to get into and doesnt need a lot of practice or memorisation to start playing at a beginner competitive level.
Despite all this, Melty is still a totally legit competitive FG, and has depth and rewards for those who are hardcore enough to explore the gameplay fully.
Since out of all the FGs I've played, Im least familiar with Melty due to lack of a scene and decent netplay, I thought I would confirm here.
Can Melty be considered a good example that you dont need high execution barriers to have a deep and competitive FG?
(note that lacking "barriers" doesnt mean that there arent any high execution "opportunities".)
-
Melty gets crazy when you go for ideal. Crescent kohaku, for example, makes f/uc 100% combo BS look easy mode.
Then there's weird shit, like h-ciel only pressing the C button once in a blue moon as you BE4B juggle wall to wall.
The 'generous' frame buffer just makes it harder in the end because it turns those early queues into too late, whiff.
-
Block-stringing and comboing while keeping orbs up is heavy enough for me. Then again, i don't play any characters except Aoko and i don't play other fighters seriously, so i don't know jack :nyoro:
-
I play some other games. Melty advanced shit actually make 1 frame links look like babies... You cant plink your way to happiness when you have a lot of strict timings to do things, and you have to control delayed and early attacks a lot of times in the same combo...
There are some simple bnbs, yeah, but doing them wont differentiate you from a guy who can do a hadouken in SF. If you cant do your decent combos you cant play Melty... I mean, the gameplay itself will require so much more execution then the execution for simple combos. It's much more complex then any game I've touched so far. That's why I love Melty :3. But well, yeah, it can certainly feel easy because Melty is pretty intuitive, but it's not easy and if you dont give it the time to really understand what is happening, you will be owned and will think something with the game is wrong, but it's not...
-
As for me, personally (i am a casual FG player since SF2/KOF94/VF1) I have been a bit angry at BB, where my main in BBCT (Tao) became so execution heavy in later games that combos became literally impossible for me with the amount of practice I am willing to put into that game.
Do you really have problems with CS2 Tao j8da loop? I picked that up in a couple of hours.
You can pick a character like WArc and be doing optimal damage just with basic ABC j ABC j ABC airthrow style combos (well, warc is j B C but you get what I mean), and that combo pattern works on any target.
That actually isn't her optimal combo anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siiowqdtde0
Can Melty be considered a good example that you dont need high execution barriers to have a deep and competitive FG?
Overall yes but it also depends on what character someone wants to play. I'd say somewhere between 40-50% of the characters in the game either have very easy combos or you can sacrifice a little bit of damage to do a much easier combo. I'd say another 40-45% of characters have somewhat easy combos if you spend a decent amount of time practicing them. The remaining characters have fairly high execution requirements.
-
It's a pretty good game
imo
-
I think the thing with Melty is that you have choice.I dont think theres a single character that doesnt have anything better than doing simple ground strings into a simple aircombo.
The cancelling system being very freeform means the execution requirements ranges from easy abc combos to extremely hard combos,and even though the damage might not vary much due to the proration system,most of the time the harder combos give you better post-combo options(which are definately something you should pursue in such a momentum-based game like Melty.
Also regarding accessibility and competitive depth,mechanics like Heat and Last Arc can be really powerful in a low-level game but become very hard to use as freely in a higher level game because of the risks involved in both of them(beacuse most high level players are really good at baiting/avoiding/punishing them.
In short,Melty Blood does alot of things right,which is why it has such a passionate following,its not hard to pick up and play but it also offers the depth that high level/tournament players look for.
-
this game sucks cause NO NETPLAY wait
-
In general, Melty is a very simple game especially if you have prior fighting game experience. People who start with Melty as their first fighting game will most likely find it difficult, but I'm sure you could make the same argument about any game. The basis of doing damage is in chain combos. There's a lot of freedom in what you can do at any given moment(too much sometimes) and all of the move motions are simple(no 360s/720s, no charge characters, etc)
I will say though that starting from AA, the series stepped up its difficulty level. It's no longer like MBAC where more than half the cast had the same exact same combos. You actually get rewarded for having good execution now, but it's not a requirement. There are some characters that require really good execution, like F-Arc, C and H Kohaku, and F-Kouma but they're the minority.
-
You guys are trying too hard. Just use this vid for future references.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRz776ZkCnU
-
You guys are trying too hard. Just use this vid for future references.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRz776ZkCnU
THEY JUST DONT KNOW!
-
Can Melty be considered a good example that you dont need high execution barriers to have a deep and competitive FG?
Overall yes but it also depends on what character someone wants to play. I'd say somewhere between 40-50% of the characters in the game either have very easy combos or you can sacrifice a little bit of damage to do a much easier combo. I'd say another 40-45% of characters have somewhat easy combos if you spend a decent amount of time practicing them. The remaining characters have fairly high execution requirements.
This. If you have good fighting game fundamentals (aka you aren't as dumb as a corner brick that got it's brain chopped off so it could fit the building) you can play in a casual setting with 5 minutes of practice with a good chunk of characters. Getting past that, however, is another story.
It's as deep as a competitive fighting game can be.
-
Thanks for the replies guys.
My ideal is that doing an easy combo will get you like 80% of the damage of an optimal one, for several characters. The last 20% is for those experts, and they have to work progressively harder to reach optimal damage. So people who are bad at execution will be at least hitting in the same ballpark as the experts. (similarly, we have games like KOF where some characters dont have much more than strong hit > super).
From what people are saying, this seems to be the case in melty. (at least mbac, maybe less so in mbaa).
Contrast to BBCS2 Tao, where, without the j8D loop (or in BBCS:EX, drive cancels all over the place), you're looking at 1500 damage versus like over 5000 or something. Maybe for certain people drive cancels are pretty simple, but I've always found that kind of technique to be really hard, despite being others ok at games generally. I shudder to think what a FG newcomer would make of it.
I like BBCT Tao's drive loop. It was easy and mashable, and you only needed good timing on the last rep or two. If you skipped them, due to proration you're only missing out on 500-1000 damage or so. And you have the taunt combos for experts and showoffs, but for most players they werent quite damaging enough to risk the difficulty.
-
IMO, the thing about Melty that increases it's learning curve is not only advanced combos, but footsies as well. Melty isn't only freeform in its combo system but also it's movement system. Even in BB, you can't double jump after you airdash, whereas in MB you can mix almost anything.
Also, as said earlier, combos in MB aren't only for damage, but for placement advantages as well, like putting them at knockdown to leave you with free frames to place yourself or to put out a summon to cover you. Most of the time, learning the advanced combos rarely reward you with considerably more damage, but with this.
In general, Melty is a very simple game especially if you have prior fighting game experience. People who start with Melty as their first fighting game will most likely find it difficult, but I'm sure you could make the same argument about any game. The basis of doing damage is in chain combos. There's a lot of freedom in what you can do at any given moment(too much sometimes) and all of the move motions are simple(no 360s/720s, no charge characters, etc)
I started out with Melty and the fighting game concept was very very new to me at that time. So much so that learning other games was very difficult. The absence of Reverse Beating in BB and the extremely tight combo system (relative to MB) in SF killed me :emo:
-
If you only want "experts" to do the most damage go play an mmo. It doesn't matter if it's 20% or 233% more damage, it's a stupid idea in any competitive game.
-
IMO, the thing about Melty that increases it's learning curve is not only advanced combos, but footsies as well. Melty isn't only freeform in its combo system but also it's movement system. Even in BB, you can't double jump after you airdash, whereas in MB you can mix almost anything.
Also, as said earlier, combos in MB aren't only for damage, but for placement advantages as well, like putting them at knockdown to leave you with free frames to place yourself or to put out a summon to cover you. Most of the time, learning the advanced combos rarely reward you with considerably more damage, but with this.
qft. The freedom in movement of mb can make the game much harder for the guy that is defending. When i started playing mb, i eated sachin's oki 130% of time (not to talk about the fucking fuzzy guard) :'(
I started out with Melty and the fighting game concept was very very new to me at that time. So much so that learning other games was very difficult. The absence of Reverse Beating in BB and the extremely tight combo system (relative to MB) in SF killed me :emo:
hum....i normaly see mb as cvs2...the "mechanic storm" is so intense people normaly learn much more about other games mechanic playing mb and cvs2 than the reverse happens. I wold agree with you in this point before mbaa comes out, but the full moon don't have reverse beat, so i ended up learning to not rely in it (and f arc/ c arc combos are harder for me than 3s ryu).
-
hi zeech
also id like to point out that sometimes "harder" combos will also net you better oki , Ex: satsuki's bnb has a 2-3f j.[c] link, but its pretty much required if you want to play her competitively...
-
It's just that compared to Melty other fighting games just suck hard. Either too stiff, slow or not variable enough.
-
hi zeech
also id like to point out that sometimes "harder" combos will also net you better oki , Ex: satsuki's bnb has a 2-3f j.[c] link, but its pretty much required if you want to play her competitively...
I honestly never realized this... I've just been obsessed over doing CHisui's ladle loop combo her assured knockdown + free bento setup... cuz it is so satisfying to do.
-
Heheh.... so are people here trying to convince me that melty is -not- accessible? :P
-
No fighting game is.
-
Well, relatively speaking.
-
nah game is pretty easy to get into, just hard to master
-
well ^^^ this.
Generally speaking, if you have experience in other fighters, the learning curve is low, but the fundamentals of the game (ie the shit you REALLY need to know to be DECENT at any fighter) take time to get used to. The pacing is fast, meter management is simple compared to other fighters (then again, i kinda take that back, Im still learning the moon styles so idk), combo execution can range from simple (dat nanaya) to strict (dat miyako).
IMO
-
combo execution can range from simple (dat F-Ries) to strict (dat Arcuied).
Fix'd
I've found that Melty is a decent starting fighter. Basic comboing practically teaches itself, in that just mashing will produce simple ground combos and from there it's relatively easy to figure out and optimize. And after you learn the basics there isn't much else you can do except start learning advanced concepts.
It also helps that most inputs in Melty are relatively simple. I think the most complex input is C-Kohaku's 3632141c drug install.
-
What you will need to play various characters at a high level: :laffo:
A copy of the game: H&F-Kohaku, Kouma, Nero, H-V.Scion, Miyako, Ries
Fundamentals, Dedication, Practice, Research: Everybody else
A Third Eye: Mixupless Full Moons
High Execution: Arcueid
A Zero System: H-Ciel, C-Kohaku
-
the learning curve is low
But the curve goes really deep... That's why I like to say in MB you can have 1000 players, and all of them be in a totally different level... Comparing to RPGs, in MB you start in level 1, but you can get 25 levels a day and the limit level is 10000... You take much more time to master, but you learn and improve much faster, because MB is intuitive and simple... like stepmania or trackmania. So, if you are going to play competitively, sometimes you are "too far", even in low level. But nothing pratice mode wont solve.
-
That's saying the game isn't accessible since you'll need to play for 40 days before you can compete on an even level with the current best. Using your rpg analogy change the level cap to 100 and the last 10 levels take a day each, that is you can get close to the top fast but that last stretch is a pain in the ass.
-
That's saying the game isn't accessible since you'll need to play for 40 days before you can compete on an even level with the current best. Using your rpg analogy change the level cap to 100 and the last 10 levels take a day each, that is you can get close to the top fast but that last stretch is a pain in the ass.
Acessibility is not how fast you can play like a pro, it's about how fast you can understand the game mechanics and play it like it's supposed to be played, how easily it sinks into your brain. In that regard, I don't think Melty is really acessible because there is a lot to take in, but since you don't need to know much to do some combos and move around on the screen it's kind of ok in that aspect, the case is that it is just more acessible than the majority of FGs (which doesnt say much, really). Shields, bunker, max, heats, last arc, reverse beat, dodge, those can be learned by playing the game further, and that is how it should be.
That being said, going from "oh, you can do this" to "this is the BEST way of doing it" takes time, and it depends on the person in question and who you have to play with, but I'd say that to compete on even level with the current best you'll need a lot more than 40 days. So yeah, it is deep.
-
That's saying the game isn't accessible since you'll need to play for 40 days before you can compete on an even level with the current best. Using your rpg analogy change the level cap to 100 and the last 10 levels take a day each, that is you can get close to the top fast but that last stretch is a pain in the ass.
Are you trolling? A game is ridiculously shallow if someone can pick up the game and compete with the current best in less than 40 days. Even 40 days is way too little time for someone to be able to pick up a game and become the best.
-
That's saying the game isn't accessible since you'll need to play for 40 days before you can compete on an even level with the current best. Using your rpg analogy change the level cap to 100 and the last 10 levels take a day each, that is you can get close to the top fast but that last stretch is a pain in the ass.
Yup. I think Melty Blood is not acessible competitively. Actually I think MB is less acessible then any other fighting game competitively. But surely not because combo execution. Most likely timing, neutral game, strings, hitconfirm, etc. But I also think MB is the most acessible game to play/understand.
Acessibility is not how fast you can play like a pro, it's about how fast you can understand the game mechanics and play it like it's supposed to be played, how easily it sinks into your brain.
Inso, you are right about the acessibility concept, but it's about acessibility to compete. Melty Blood is not more acessible then other fighting games in that. You take much longer to start winning in Melty then in other games usually.
Melty Blood is very simple to understand, and easy to feel you're good, because you always think you've improved a lot, but there is so much space to be filled with skill and planning... And truth is you usually didn't improve 10% of what you should. The bad thing is when you think that you're getting good, you start to worry less about improving... But you actually could keep improving at the same pace for years. Melty Blood in an extreme game... Look how japanese players can play it... And I don't think it's even close to the limit of the game. A good exemple of this is Hikonyan... That guy took the game to a different level from night to day. I'm sure so much more can be done. We are too far from knowing what this game really is imho...
-
Inso, you are right about the acessibility concept, but it's about acessibility to compete. Melty Blood is not more acessible then other fighting games in that. You take much longer to start winning in Melty then in other games usually.
Hmm.... yeah, me trippin'. Ignore what I just said, I misinterpreted the subject and even made Tonberry sink with me.
I guess the question is, could someone doing just basic ass combos like 2abc (insert launcher here) j.BC j.BC throw win games competively or do you NEED the 1-frame link execution and high damage combos to be a champ in MB?
Imagine that you are a veteran MB player and you play only one character, no subs. Then, you need to play with another character you know little about, but you manage to find a BnB and what's good on pressure and neutral during the match based solely on your knowledge of the game. I think you could win.
-
I consider "accessibility" and "depth" to be seperate concepts.
If you could pick up a game and start playing it at the highest level in days, I wouldnt call that an example of accessibility, but rather a lack of depth.
I think accessibility is mostly about how simple/uncomplicated/easy/low-practice it is to acquire the building blocks / basic skills of the game.
At the very first level, GUI. Melty is relatively less accessible due to many meters that work in special ways. And in MBAA, the moon styles.
At the 2nd level, control UI. Melty is more accessible due to standardised and simplified move motions, 3 attack buttons, generous canceling.
At the 3rd level, BnB combos. Melty can be pretty accessible, depending on character.
At the 4th level, competitive mechanics. Melty is probably less accessible due to air footsies being a bit tricky to get the feel of.
So yeah, I guess accessibility will vary as you move along the learning curve. But its better to be more accessible in the early stages than it is to be tough early and easier later on.
-
That's saying the game isn't accessible since you'll need to play for 40 days before you can compete on an even level with the current best. Using your rpg analogy change the level cap to 100 and the last 10 levels take a day each, that is you can get close to the top fast but that last stretch is a pain in the ass.
Are you trolling? A game is ridiculously shallow if someone can pick up the game and compete with the current best in less than 40 days. Even 40 days is way too little time for someone to be able to pick up a game and become the best.
Marvel?
-
Outside of the ease of basic hitconfirms and comparatively simple special move inputs I really don't see how melty is an easy game to get into, most people I've met who play the game for the first time are usually confused by the sets of three different, equally non-intuitive meter mechanics, reverse beats, "neverending pressure," and lack of clearly-defined character archetypes (this one is more important than a lot of people realize, not only does it make choosing a character difficult but characters' optimal play styles aren't immediately apparent). I think the initial hump to entry is probably higher than most games, though after that's surpassed I think the game is not exceptionally difficult or simple in comparison to others
-
Accessibility is how hard it is/how much practice it takes/however you want to word it to get to playing at a competent level. Depth, depending on how you look at it is either how many [good] options you have in every situation or infinite by default because the options loop infinitely countering each other in rps fashion. The true depth in fighting games comes from figuring your opponent out and is thus entirely reliant on them. I'm not sure how to explain it but the basic idea is that when you play your opponent instead of the game you have more options. It's not like now you can wakeup mash as an option, but planning for "mindgames" ahead, such as you're going to go high twice then low instead of deciding individually each time you set up the mixup. This is why talking about depth in fighting games is mostly meaningless, every fighting game that isn't completely broken has the same depth.
One of the things that people seem to think is depth but isn't is the number of moves/combos/whatever you can do. In the case of combos, outside of escape-able ones which I won't get into, there is zero depth. After the point of hit-confirming you are always going to go into the best combo for the situation. The decision making comes before the combo, as in how to land it, not the actual combo itself. It's not a choice of do you want damage or do you want oki because unless you aren't prepared for the situation you will always choose the best one. An easy example is when the damage option will kill a character/win a round. It's obvious which is the better option then. If you don't know which is better that isn't depth, that's you not being prepared for the situation.
An exercise you can do to help understand this is find any situation in any fighting game that you want. Make a list of every option that both players have in this situation. Include every single option, not just the good ones. Now create a grid/spreadsheet and write what happens when both players use said options. You'll quickly realize most of your options are completely useless because there is another option that does better against everything else. Not understanding this makes games seem deeper than they are. Even though your 2a will win against some things, your 5a does just as good or better against everything, thus 2a isn't an option for you. In this situation 2a isn't providing depth but an uninformed individual might think it does.
What people are saying about the initial hurdle of accessibility for Melty is true. Melty's chains don't work like any other fighter and there are a lot of system mechanics thrown right at you at the start, especially with the three moons but after you get over that it's easy for a while. Most basic and almost advanced combos/techniques are easy, although some of the higher end stuff will make a vegetarian want to kick a kitten. Once you get there you then have 80ish matchups to learn which isn't hard but it does take time and practically the entire world to get you a full roster. All in all I wouldn't classify the accessiblitiness as hard but there is a lot to do and a bunch of it is thrown at you day 1.
TL:DR just because you can do something that you shouldn't doesn't make depth. Not that people posting were talking about it but people reading it were.
Also lets keep arguing about how accessible and deep melty is when everyone thinks those words mean something different.
-
Outside of the ease of basic hitconfirms and comparatively simple special move inputs I really don't see how melty is an easy game to get into, most people I've met who play the game for the first time are usually confused by the sets of three different, equally non-intuitive meter mechanics, reverse beats, "neverending pressure," and lack of clearly-defined character archetypes (this one is more important than a lot of people realize, not only does it make choosing a character difficult but characters' optimal play styles aren't immediately apparent). I think the initial hump to entry is probably higher than most games, though after that's surpassed I think the game is not exceptionally difficult or simple in comparison to others
Yes, well, when I wrote the post I was mostly thinking of MBAC, which has less complicated systems/features/UI than MBAA.
Also I'm thinking for people who are new to FGs, and thus similiarity to other FGs is not a factor.
-
Hmm. I always understood depth in a different way. Depth to me always seems like "how much can your skill, experience, training and planning can make difference in your gameplay and results". In SF4 for example, it's more like focused on matchups, reaction and bets/yomi. Skill, training and planning wont make much difference there (unless about execution). But in Melty Blood you can pretty much customize your gameplay: there is so much you can do, so many mixups you can create, so many different strings with different purposes, combo options to choose the situation you want. Also reversal not being supreme and throw no beating poke gives the game so much more mixup potential. You can't act mindlessy. Then you mix everything together in a fast paced game with 2 jumps and 1 airdash... there is no limit where your skill, experience, training and planning can take you. That's depth to me.
The more deep, the less acessible competitively. It's a logical rule. However, Melty Blood is very acessible game to learn because it's simple. Isn't trackmania simple, for exemple? But is it acessible competitively? Definitely no.
-
hmm, I thought of a good analogy.
Imagine that the competitive landscape is a mountain. The best players are at the top, beginners have to work their way up from the bottom. People compete by throwing rocks at each other, so you can only win against people that are within rock-throwing distance, or if they are lower than you.
The depth of a game is how tall the mountain is. If a mountain is only 5 meters tall, then the distance seperating the top players and the bottom players are still within a stone's throw. Anyone can beat anyone. The game has little competitive depth. Whereas a mountain that's 10km tall, then there are nuances that seperate even players in the top 50% from the top 49%.
The accessibility of a game is how steep/shallow the mountain is. (theoretically you can have a very shallow mountain that is nevertheless very tall - it just means the mountain covers a huge horizontal area. but that's not relevant to this analogy :P ) As an example, BBCS1 Taokaka had an impassable cliff for me in the form of taunt loop - it was a requirement of her game, but even doing 1 taunt loop was impossible for me with the amount of practise I was willing to put in or my reflexes. There were no "baby version" taunt loops for Tao, there were no "still viable but easier non-tauntloop combos" for Tao. It was a cliff that made me give up that character.
If instead BBCS1 Tao had a gentle slope instead of a cliff (like the simpler alternatives I mentioned) then I might have made it further up the mountain and possibly even mastered the tauntloop gradually. But the giant cliff in the way made it unfun and I gave up.
But I digress. So yeah, depth = height, accessibility = slope :)
-
I agree. And acessible competitively is how much time/effort it takes for you to surpass someone who's higher then you. Melty Blood is not acessible competitively not because the slope is steep, but because the mountain is too big. Even if you can climb easily, sometimes the guy is just too far imho.
And that only applies to low level gameplay. There are a lot of tricky and big barriers in mid/high level gameplay, but they're mostly not about executing combos imo. They're mostly the invisible barriers that prevents mid level players from improving to high level player... e.g. lack of info, lack of planning. Unless you pick some certain characters like C-Arcueid, C-Sion, C-Kohaku... Then you might have some troubles with combo execution...
-
That's saying the game isn't accessible since you'll need to play for 40 days before you can compete on an even level with the current best. Using your rpg analogy change the level cap to 100 and the last 10 levels take a day each, that is you can get close to the top fast but that last stretch is a pain in the ass.
Are you trolling? A game is ridiculously shallow if someone can pick up the game and compete with the current best in less than 40 days. Even 40 days is way too little time for someone to be able to pick up a game and become the best.
Marvel?
LOL I love that you said this. I was thinking the exact same thing.
Melty imo is one of those games that's accessibility comes from it's simple inputs. It's not difficult to perform the moves so pretty much anyone can pick up the game, choose any character and get the moves down quick enough. But when it comes to depth, that is a whole separate issue. The depth of Melty is staggering. I've realized that myself after watching videos of high level play and observing matchup discussions and whatnot. I actually am one of those players who "thought" I was halfway decent at this game not too long ago but now I see exactly how FAR I am from the level of skill I thought myself to be at.
-
I'd just like to pop in to add my two cents.
A fighting game is not only as interesting as its game mechanics!! I have a few friends that play fighting games on a somewhat casual level, and I USUALLY played GG or SF4 with them. We also would pull out lots of other game like CvS2 and KoF98. However, only ONE of them was willing to play Melty Blood with me until very recently, when we pretty much tricked them into playing with us.
You see, they had a lot of preconceptions about the game that made it seem uninteresting to them. However, once they starting trying out characters they liked, they started to get into it, and now they play the game on a regular basis. Not like they'll hop on the Melty Bread scene any time soon, but there it is.
In my case, what got me into fighting games in the first place was being able to connect with a character I found interesting (Robo Ky). Guilty Gear's execution barriers meant nothing to me as long as I kept learning more about how to use a robot whose very existence parodied the main character's design.
SO...I guess what I'm trying to say is, a fighting game's accessibility and depth are not limited to its game mechanics, and I am sure people play otherwise broken fighting games because of how AWESOME it is as a GAME.
I suppose in the mountain analogy, it's the difference between having stones or exploding pies thrown at you.
-
You could say the same about any game. How many people play game x because they have a hardon for the main character, or how many people don't play game x because they think it's too hard(or any misconception).