Melty Bread Forums
Misaki Town Bakery => Melty Blood Auditorium => : Psylocke April 28, 2009, 06:39:10 PM
When's Melty on Steam?
ahaha that's no--wait, what?
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2009/10/5 EDIT: Editing this post to include the tier lists that have been the most accepted on the jp mbaa bbs, so that people can see how they've shifted over time. All these lists are for arcade Version A, so they may not necessarily apply to Original Balance mode of the PS2 version.
Final MBAA Ver. A tier list, made by Hato right before Current Code's release. Published in September 2010 (http://www.norematch.com/images2/Arcadia%20%23124%200107.jpg) issue of Arcadia magazine
S: Shiki Tohno, Kohaku, Hisui&Kohaku
A: VSion, Mech, Miyako, Nero
B+: Akiha, Warc, Wara, Ciel, Aoko, VAkiha, Nanaya
B: Arc, Ries, WLen, Satsuki, Hisui, Kouma, Sion
C: Len, Roa
2009/10/3
Ｓ Ｈ琥珀 ＨＶシオン Ｈ志貴 Ｃメカ
Ａ＋ Ｆヒスコハ Ｃ琥珀 Ｃ志貴 ＣＦ都古 ＨＦネロ
Ａ Ｃ七夜 Ｃワルク Ｆアルク Ｆ青子 Ｆ赤主 Ｃネロ Ｆ志貴 Ｆ琥珀 Ｃヒスコハ
Ｂ ＣＨＦ秋葉 Ｆ白レン Ｆコウマ ＣＨ翡翠 Ｃシエル Ｆリーズ ＨＦメカ Ｈ都古 ＨＦ七夜 Ｈヒスコハ ＦＶシオン
Ｃワラキア Ｈシオン Ｈさつき Ｈ赤主 Ｈロア ＣＨ青子 Ｈレン ＣＨアルク ＨＦワルク
Ｃ その他、猫
全スタイルランク、Ｓ～Ａまでは妥当だと思う。
S: H-Kohaku H-VSion H-Shiki C-Mech
A+: F-Maids C-Kohaku C-Shiki C/F-Miyako H/F-Nero
A: C-Nanaya C-Warc F-Arc F-Aoko F-VAkiha C-Nero F-Shiki F-Kohaku C-Maids
B: C/H/F-Akiha F-WLen F-Kouma C/H-Hisui C-Ciel F-Ries H/F-Mech H-Miyako H/F-Nanaya H-Maids F-VSion C-Wara H-Sion H-Satsuki H-VAkiha H-Roa C/H-Aoko H-Len C/H-Arc H/F-Warc
C: Everybody else, Neco
2009/6/29 Tier list done by top Shiki player はと(Hato), eventually published in August issue of Arcadia magazine. Bad translation of it here at Versus City (http://www.versuscity.net/2009/06/30/arcadia-august-tier-list-trouble/)
アルカランク
神 吸血シオンH
S メカヒスイC
A ネロFH、志HC、琥珀CH、都古CF、七夜C、ヒスコハCF
B 青子FH、悪アルクC、赤秋葉F、翡翠H、白レンF、さつきC、シオンC、アルクF
C シエルC、キシマF、リーズF、ワラキアC、秋葉CH、ロアHF、レンH、猫C
God: H-VSion
S: C-Mech Hisui
A: F/H-Nero H/C-Shiki C/H-Kohaku C/F-Miyako C-Nanaya C/F-Maids
B: F/H-Aoko C-Warc F-VAkiha H-Hisui F-WLen C-Satsuki C-Sion F-Arc
C: C-Ciel F-Kouma F-Ries C-Wara C/H-Akiha H/F-Roa H-Len C-Neco
2009/3/6 First tier list on JBBS that attempts to separate all the moon phases
S
HVｼ Cﾒｶ HC志貴 Fﾈﾛ H琥珀 F都古
A+
C七夜 Cﾜﾙｸ
FC軋間 CHﾈﾛ CF琥珀 Fﾒｶ
A-
Fﾋｽｺﾊ CH都古 Fﾜﾙｸ F白 H七夜 Cｼｴﾙ C青子 Fｱﾙｸ
F赤主 Hﾛｱ Cさつき F志貴 HFｼｵﾝ C翡翠
B+
CHF秋葉 CHﾋｽｺﾊ HFﾘｰｽﾞ FCVｼ H赤主 F七夜
Hﾜﾙｸ H翡翠 CFﾜﾗｷｱ HCｱﾙｸ FHｼｴﾙ Hﾒｶ Cｼｵﾝ H軋間 CH白 F青子
B-
Hﾜﾗｷｱ HFﾚﾝ Cﾘｰｽﾞ Fﾛｱ Hさつき F翡翠 H青子 C赤主
C+
Fさつき Cﾚﾝ Cﾛｱ
S: H-VSion C-Mecha H/C-Shiki F-Nero H-Kohaku F-Miyako
A+: C-Nanaya C-Warc
A: F/C-Kouma C/H-Nero C/F-Kohaku F-Mecha
A-: F-Maids C/H-Miyako F-Warc F-WRen H-Nanaya C-Ciel C-Aoko F-Arc F-VAkiha H-Roa C-Satsuki F-Shiki H/F-Sion C-Hisui
B+: C/H/F-Akiha C/H-Maids H/F-Ries F/C-VSion H-VAkiha F-Nanaya
B: H-Warc H-Hisui C/F-Wara H/C-Arc F/H-Ciel H-Mecha C-Sion H-Kouma C/H-WRen F-Aoko
B-: H-Wara H/F-Ren C-Ries F-Roa H-Satsuki F-Hisui H-Aoko C-VAkiha
C+: F-Satsuki C-Ren C-Roa
2009/2/23 First credible MBAA Ver.A tier list posted by Kanna on the jp mbaa bbs.
キャラランク（そのキャラの1番強いと思うスタイルでのランク）
猫アルクは強い弱い関係なしに欄外
A、B、Cで分ける（個人的にVER.Bよりも差がないと感じるので）
Aを3点、Bを2点、Cを1点として加算。
A:Vシオン（59）、メカ翡翠（58）、志貴（54）、ネロ（54）、七夜（53）、琥珀（53）
B:都古（49）、ワルク（41）、ヒスコハ（40）、アルク（40）、白レン（38）、翡翠（38）、シエル（37）、軋間（36）、青子（36）、リーズ（35）、さつき（35）、赤主（34）、シオン（32）、ロア（31）、秋葉（30）、ワラキア（30）
C:レン（23）
参加者（敬称略）:かんな、レイ、かいまーと、うどんげ、丸やん、SAT、芳乃、がる、シュウ、めっしい、ジン、キリト、ぶぶ、平田、ぼぶ、するめ、にく、新屋、深空、洋
聞いてない人に会った際にランクを聞いてまた更新する可能性もありますが、おそらく更新はしないと思われます。
Compiled by 20 top jp players, characters were rated from A(3 points) to C(1 point)
Players: Kanna, Rei, Kaimaato, Udonge, Maruyan, SAT, Yoshino, Garu, Shuu, Messhii, Jin, Kirito, Bubu, Hirata, Bobu, Surume, Niku, Niiya, Misora, You
A: VSion(59), Mech Hisui(58), Shiki Tohno(54), Nero(54), Nanaya(53), Kohaku(53)
B: Miyako(49), Warc(41), Hisui&Kohaku(40), Arcueid(40), White Ren(38), Hisui(38), Ciel(37), Kouma(36), Aoko(36), Ries(35), Satsuki(35), VAkiha(34), Sion(32), Roa(31), Akiha(30), Warachia(30)
C: Ren(23)
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:3c
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Is Wara's average really that low? I thought C and F were both very solid.
Comments:
S: H-VSion C-Mecha H/C-Shiki F-Nero H-Kohaku F-Miyako
C Shiki is a bit surprising. I thought people like H a lot more for Shiki. I always thought F Nero was a bit stronger than H because of better pokes and lockdown, and now apparently so do other people. C Mech and F Miyako damage is crazy.
A+: C-Nanaya C-Warc
Strange. I never see people really playing C Nanaya. C Warc though I expected to be top or close to top because she's still just as solid with even better stuff than MBAC.
A: F/C-Kouma C/H-Nero C/F-Kohaku F-Mecha
And I never see people play Kouma any more either, or F Mech. But yeah, all of these looked strong when people used them regularly in Joybox videos.
A-: F-Maids C/H-Miyako F-Warc F-WRen H-Nanaya C-Ciel C-Aoko F-Arcueid F-VAkiha H-Roa C-Satsuki F-Shiki H/F-Sion C-Hisui
I never thought F Maids would end up this high, especially over Half or Crescent. And I haven't seen anyone touch C/H Miyako or pretty much any Sion either. It's nice to see Hisui is still pretty solid even though she got nerfs from MBAC. Also I think Sacchin actually moved up a tier. Also BANANA SHIKI.
B+: C/H/F-Akiha C/H-Maids H/F-Ries F/C-VSion H-VAkiha F-Nanaya
Wow Akiha is this low now? That's actually a bit unusual to me because I think she's stronger than she was in MBAC by a little, while Hisui got weaker, and Akiha was top in MBAC so... Everything else looks like how I expected, except maybe F Nanaya seems a little low.
B: H-Warc H-Hisui C/F-Wara H/C-Arcueid F/H-Ciel H-Mecha C-Sion H-Kouma C/H-WRen F-Aoko
I though C/F Wara were much higher, like I said, but eh. Wlen and Aoko were really low in MBAC, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they're B tier in this game when they got buffed quite a bit, but B sounds a bit low at the same time since there's just so many characters above them.
B-: H-Wara H/F-Ren C-Ries F-Roa H-Satsuki F-Hisui H-Aoko C-VAkiha
F Len always looked much better in videos, but I guess a lot of that is just because the F Len players are solid. Still, seems like most of the Len players feel like F is the best style, so I expected it to be higher.
C+: F-Satsuki C-Ren C-Roa
Eh, besides Denpa playing F Sacchin, no one really plays these characters over other styles. No surprises, and Denpa calls Sacchin bottom tier anyways when she wasn't in MBAC. Now he can actually play bottom tier.
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He kicks ass with a lowest tier character. :mystery:
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I've yet to see any good F-Len videos to inspire me to pick her up again. Only her aegis reflectors are gimmicky fun.
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C: Ren(23)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
YES
C+: F-Satsuki C-Ren C-Roa
No
:(
akiha is way too low on that list imo, she should be at least A
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What I saw:
Mech is top, Len is bottom.
All-hail mecha.
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PS. Where's our cat princess?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/a1k5fl.gif)
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Neco is actually a pretty nice improvement over MBAC, they made her hitbox even smaller, made her attack hitboxes bigger, etc.
NA always had pretty good nice strings/mixups, even a fuzzy, she was just really limited by her range and zoning capability. That's still kind of prevelant, but I'd hazard a guess she might actually be pushing a B Minus. H seems lacking though, the F airdash doesn't seem good enough to make up for the other stuff either, but idk.
There're like no serious neco players around anyway, so it's kind of hard for them to gauge it.
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Well, I guess this justifies me liking F-Chaos over any of the Ciel types when I was trying it out at AI when I was down there.
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Always wanted to see serious neco players, figured it would be entertaining to say the least.
Also; isn't is sad Sacchin?
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Len low tier is infuriating.
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Always wanted to see serious neco players, figured it would be entertaining to say the least.
Also; isn't is sad Sacchin?
Denpa cheers her up :V
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Poor C-V.Akiha got so horribly fucked over in MBAA, lol
I was surprised to see H-Kohaku top tier, actually. I haven't seen much of her over Full or Crescent, so I figured she wasn't too special over them.
It's funny to see how much the tiers have changed though since Yukinose's vanilla tiers where iirc Kouma was the only character whose best style wasn't Half.
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The only thing I see weird is that Akiha is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low. She should be at least "A" Tier. Then again, it's not like these tiers will be in stone seeing that the PS2 version will be out soon and with Ryougi Shiki (and possibly more characters and character changes ) the tiers can be shuffled around a bit.
That is..unless they make Ryougi like SF4 console characters and make her as shallow as possible.
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Did C-Nanaya get changed in ver.A? When MBAA first came out all the american nanaya players were crying about how his 2B and 5C were nerfed and he sucks horribly now. So was he buffed in ver.A or is this another classic case of american players being wrong about everything?
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Did C-Nanaya get changed in ver.A? When MBAA first came out all the american nanaya players were crying about how his 2B and 5C were nerfed and he sucks horribly now. So was he buffed in ver.A or is this another classic case of american players being wrong about everything?
Maybe it's because I don't hang out in any of the IRC channels or I'm watching some different matches than you guys, but when was ANYONE complaining about Nanaya being nerfed? LOL sucking horribly now....really? I could have sworn he was doing perfectly from the matches I was seeing.
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Did C-Nanaya get changed in ver.A? When MBAA first came out all the american nanaya players were crying about how his 2B and 5C were nerfed and he sucks horribly now. So was he buffed in ver.A or is this another classic case of american players being wrong about everything?
Maybe it's because I don't hang out in any of the IRC channels or I'm watching some different matches than you guys, but when was ANYONE complaining about Nanaya being nerfed? LOL sucking horribly now....really? I could have sworn he was doing perfectly from the matches I was seeing.
when MBAA first came out i was getting hype over c-nanaya's buffed 5B and how its really useful and several people (including jiyuna and magikarp and some others i think) proceeded to lecture me about how his 2B and 5C have been super nerfed and hes a lot worse now and etc etc etc
but like i said this was back when it was first released, maybe it changed for ver.A?
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Did they nerf anything else major about Akiha other than the applies-to-everyone h-moon system mechanics? If so, what? The huge drop in tier surprises me too...
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Can F-Kohahisui use counters?
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1) F-Roa should be switched over C-Roa
2) B- for F-Ren? are they serious? she would fit at A-
3) agreeing for H-VSion, C-Mech, F-Nero, F-Miyako
4) H/F-Kouma is a little bit better than C-Kouma, he was too strong in MBAC
5) sad to see Hisui so nerfed, she's my second main in MBAC, no wonder why F-Maids kicks ass
6) BANANA SHIKI should be S++ :D
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Neat! The character I currently main in the moon style I planned to use is top tier!!
Hopefully they do not rebalance the game when it comes out for the PS2.
:D
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Neat! The character I currently main in the moon style I planned to use is top tier!!
Hopefully they do not rebalance the game when it comes out for the PS2.
:D
they're gonna rebalance it, but it will be possible to choose the arcade balancing, and the new PS2 balancing
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Oh, also. F-Maids are only A-? The videos of them that Sibla posted made them look a whole hell of a lot better.
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VSion. Why am I not surprised?
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Did they nerf anything else major about Akiha other than the applies-to-everyone h-moon system mechanics? If so, what? The huge drop in tier surprises me too...
For H-Akiha, the main nerf she got was in damage. She doesn't get 5k damage combos for free anymore. Other than that I don't know what else got changed
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Other thing that probably hurt H-moon is the life regen nerf.
Awhile ago from a arcadia mag that was pre-verA...there were like six or something charas in top tier, and all were half.
Now it's dropped to three.
im gonna count on it being various chara nerfs + life regen
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Oh, also. F-Maids are only A-? The videos of them that Sibla posted made them look a whole hell of a lot better.
Meh, that blockstring shit isn't THAT good, looks easy to bunker
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Oh, also. F-Maids are only A-? The videos of them that Sibla posted made them look a whole hell of a lot better.
Multihit moves are super easy to EX Guard so plant/Hisui assist blockstrings shouldn't rape your guard meter.
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Oh, also. F-Maids are only A-? The videos of them that Sibla posted made them look a whole hell of a lot better.
Multihit moves are super easy to EX Guard so plant/Hisui assist blockstrings shouldn't rape your guard meter.
Infinite blockstrings just don't work very well. Bunkers get you out unless they're baited, and 99% of the time after a few reps the person trying the infinite blockstring will fall into a pattern and keep up the blockstring on reflex, so even if you get hit they'll screw up a followup and you'll get out. See Vakiha F j.236 loop. Now players will only try it maybe twice because any more and it doesn't really do anything. From the videos I've seen, Full Maids players usually let the opponent out of pressure after maybe 2000 damage on accident if they stop blocking, and will get a full combo and keep the opponent in the corner if they get the guard break.
And I do think Akiha is too low. Asdf was browsing the Japanese BBS though, and opinions still vary a lot. A lot of people don't put Wara that low, and a lot have different Akiha styles on different tiers, with F at A tier or something.
H Vsion is like the greatest rushdown character ever made in a fighting game. I don't know why people thought F Miyako was better. Sure F Miyako has a really hard to block mixup, but H Vsion's mixup is almost impossible to actually get out of and she can just keep pressure up. You can poke out of F Miyako stuff. H Vsion 6C is like the best overhead in the game in terms of getting counterhits and lower body invincibility, and H Vsion covers the entire screen faster than any other character (and I'm pretty sure she dashes at least 50% faster than MBAC/Crescent Vsion). Also she has better antiair than any rushdown character ever had in MBAC (6B kills you for free if you're anywhere within half a screen of Vsion in the air unless you cross her up), and a j.B that has about as much reach as Nanaya j.C that can also cross up. And she still has one of the best j.Cs in the entire game just like MBAC. I've always thought H Vsion was the best character in the game, I don't know why everyone else said F Miyako was better.
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It's a bit redundant, but they've also started to rank the styles for each character.
VSion H > F > C
Mecha C > H > F
Shiki Tohno H > C > F
Nero F > H > C
Nanaya C > F > H
Kohaku H > C > F
Miyako F > C > H
Warc C > F > H
Maids F > C > H
Arcueid F > H > C
White Ren F > C > H
Hisui C > H > F
Ciel C > H > F
Kouma F > C > H
Aoko F > C > H
Ries F > H > C
Satsuki C > H > F
VAkiha F > H > C
Sion F > C > H
Roa H > F > C
Akiha C > F > H
Wara C > F > H
Ren H > F > C
The consensus seems to be that for Akiha, Crescent is the best style, though Half and Full are better off against certain matchups. To theory fight a bit more, Crescent also seems to be her best style from videos too. Out of all the notable MBAC Akiha players(Yukinose, GO1, Kirito, Yuu, Tetsu, t-ru), Yukinose is the only one that uses F, all the other players use C/H, and GO1 switched to VSion
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A-: C-Aoko
B: F-Aoko
B-: H-Aoko
It's a bit redundant, but they've also started to rank the styles for each character.
Aoko F > C > H
Not very consistent...
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why universe hate warakia :'(
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A-: C-Aoko
B: F-Aoko
B-: H-Aoko
It's a bit redundant, but they've also started to rank the styles for each character.
Aoko F > C > H
Not very consistent...
Well yeah, the people that did the style rankings were different than the people that did the tier lists
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why universe hate warakia :'(
Wara is an upgrade.
Look at Len. :psyduck:
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Did C-Nanaya get changed in ver.A? When MBAA first came out all the american nanaya players were crying about how his 2B and 5C were nerfed and he sucks horribly now. So was he buffed in ver.A or is this another classic case of american players being wrong about everything?
Maybe it's because I don't hang out in any of the IRC channels or I'm watching some different matches than you guys, but when was ANYONE complaining about Nanaya being nerfed? LOL sucking horribly now....really? I could have sworn he was doing perfectly from the matches I was seeing.
when MBAA first came out i was getting hype over c-nanaya's buffed 5B and how its really useful and several people (including jiyuna and magikarp and some others i think) proceeded to lecture me about how his 2B and 5C have been super nerfed and hes a lot worse now and etc etc etc
but like i said this was back when it was first released, maybe it changed for ver.A?
Well, his 2b and 5c are still nerfed, but he did get buffs as well, so it kind of evens out. All in all he's still a beast, and with a guard bar working in his favor, it just makes him more dangerous. It's still surprising to see him up THAT high though.
Oh, also. F-Maids are only A-? The videos of them that Sibla posted made them look a whole hell of a lot better.
F Maids have awesome pressure, but there's still some things they lack, such as a proper antiair.
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Well, his 2b and 5c are still nerfed, but he did get buffs as well, so it kind of evens out. All in all he's still a beast, and with a guard bar working in his favor, it just makes him more dangerous. It's still surprising to see him up THAT high though.
hardly
nanaya was always a dumb character with shit that consistently works even if you've seen it a million times.
glad they finally realised he's high tier for it.
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irysa your trolling is much more effective when you dont put any effort into it
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irysa your trolling is much more effective when you dont put any effort into it
I don't even read his posts half the time, my eyes always gets dragged towards his avatar :psyduck:
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I wonder what it'll feel like to finally play an S tier character.
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whar モヌクワ @ :c
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and then nobody choose Sacchin ever again...
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and then nobody choose Sacchin ever again...
isn't it sad?
for the sake of Tsukihime Remake, i'm gonna use C-Sacchin even more than before :fap: :fap: :fap:
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irysa your trolling is much more effective when you dont put any effort into it
:V
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irysa your trolling is much more effective when you dont put any effort into it
:V
It's super effective!
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I'm surprised F-Hisui is considered the worst groove for her... she looks like the best in most videos I've seen of her, or at the very least, ahead of H-Hisui.
Its also crazy to think H-Akiha is the worst Akiha, after all that hype about her in vanilla MBAA...
Oh well, a lot of this will probably change when Ver.B comes out~
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What videos are you watching?
F-Hisui is awful. She has to have the worst tools in the game in that groove.
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It seemed to me that her damage in F-Moon was consistently higher than anything I'd seen from Cresent or Half styles... Perhaps I'm mistaken, then...? I don't really have the links anymore to back myself up :-X
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That's the case with the entire groove, not just Hisui.
Seriously, in comparison to H and C Full Moon Hisui is a barely passable gimmick.
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Lol damage. Hisui isn't a damage character. In fact, in MBAA only C Ciel and F Miyako are really damage characters. F Hisui normals are terrible, she loses her traps, and she loses bento in exchange for a mediocre chair she had in MBAC and 2 terrible chairs. She even loses her EX Dust. The only remotely good qualities F Hisui has are things every style has, and she has a lot of stuff that's much worse.
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despite she got nerfed, C-Hisui is the best
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but
office chair
;_;
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but
office chair
;_;
fuck yeah, more chairs, that's what i like of Hisui
these chairs. these chairs. these chairs. these chairs. these chairs. these chairs. these chairs!
i am not criminal :psyduck:
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but
office chair
;_;
Is a huge ass disappointment.
What the FUCK were they thinking, seriously.
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but
office chair
;_;
Wait what?
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Hay guys can we talk about F Arcueid now? 236A/B seems pretty good, what else does she have?
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F-Arc is mad linear for too much damage. Not surprised of where she is on the tier list.
236A/B is all she got going dmg wise w/ the occasional elbow pressure. Even tho the damage is good, she seems to require some lvl of execution to pull out her true damage. Talking 4.5-5k range. Plus it seems people just stopped trying to do 2C -> 236B loop in the corner so yeah, she's on some execution shit that you need to be on too for F-Arc.
C-Arc on the other hand, got some options overall. Not surprised on her placing too.
Some of the good things that C-Arc has compared to H/F are charged 236A/B (H has this too, but F dont) that is very good for pressure, air ring tricks, and some good buffs on her normals. Plus, I think C and H-Arc are supposed to treated as pressure/tricks more than F which is just straight power. C-Arc combos require quite a bit of execution too but isn't too bad if you actually played Arc in AC. They have the same combos almost.
I'm so sad that no one has played H-Arc lately. I think she hasn't been tapped in and turned gay like C-Arc and F-Arc have.
I haven't seen much of her teleport (all moons have it) so it might be ass compared to Warc's.
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Teleport is borderline useless. F-Arc seems like she has the shittiest 5A in existence, air moves suck pretty bad too. Best bet it seems is to stay on the ground and use 22A/B/C as a punish when possible. I haven't played too much AA, but most blockstrings involving 236A/B do pretty good guard damage. The hitbox on 236A/B is huge. I think most of her good pressure comes from the threat of breaking your opponent's guard bar.
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Wow, after watching a decent Hisui player that was linked in chat today, F Hisui's not quite so bunz as Chibi makes her sound. She's no top tier, but her ladles are furious, her basic chair is good as ever, and her ex Ladder is beast both as a reversal and for the corner ex Ladder loop. Ladder loop is pretty hype, I must say. It gets off 5k+ damage and looks pretty sexy while it's at it. Her normal bnb seems pretty weak though. Something like low 3k damage? =\ Her chair pressure is definitely inferior to H Hisui's stool game, but I'm just saying F Hisui doesn't seem to be complete crap.
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what
ladder loop? links
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Well personally I tried most of the H modes character in the arcade against my friends, and I believe most of them are actually decent. I don't get why Akiha drops till such a low extent on the tier list, given her H-Mode still has decent pressures, I know her jC was nerfed but it is still a lethal move in her arsenal. Her dmg was nerfed well being that you need to know how to link all her moves together to hit that 4.5k to 4.7k dmg.
Tier list are just tier list, end of the day, it is the players' job to make the characters they are using to shine out from the rest. If you like what you are playing, just don't bother with the tier list ;D
I appreciate all the different modes so I can actually fool around with instead of being stuck playing 1 mode over and over again ;D
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what
ladder loop? links
Oh, I don't have the link anymore. Hopefully Psy can remember which it was and link it, since he's usually the man when it comes to that shit.
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6940518 < LADDER LOOP
Courtesy of Psybrade
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oh damn, i missed it at first because i blinked, but 5500 from ex ladder loop combo is rather nice. now, if H Hisui had that to add to her stools, i think we'd be set.
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That EX Ladder combo requires a Heat Cancel.
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Yeah, color me unimpressed, sorry.
She has three stools on Kouma in the corner at one point, that's infinitely more intimidating then a chair she can't really rely on fully.
J.C in F whiffs the closer you are to your opponent, making it inferior to H / C.
Needing heat cancel to do over 4k is horribly situational.
And all of her mix ups in that vid are available in H / C as well.
I'll admit that having an actual option on wake up is nice, but this guy literally mashed his way out of everything anyway.
I'll take superior spacial control and proper tech punishing over a passable gimmick.
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C-Arc on the other hand, got some options overall. Not surprised on her placing too.
Some of the good things that C-Arc has compared to H/F are charged 236A/B (H has this too, but F dont) that is very good for pressure, air ring tricks, and some good buffs on her normals. Plus, I think C and H-Arc are supposed to treated as pressure/tricks more than F which is just straight power. C-Arc combos require quite a bit of execution too but isn't too bad if you actually played Arc in AC. They have the same combos almost.
I'm so sad that no one has played H-Arc lately. I think she hasn't been tapped in and turned gay like C-Arc and F-Arc have.
I haven't seen much of her teleport (all moons have it) so it might be ass compared to Warc's.
This guy is hella cool now :V I like my execution with arc and I played her since MB so yeah, and I like gimmicky tools like teleports and her 214 connections look really fun to boot. Not to mention she can combo 236 from wallslam combos so pretty much C-Arc is fun H-Arc is a mystery atm and F-Arc is zzzzzz But either way Im playing all three when AA comes home. :toot: She pretty much has the tools that I always wish she'd had before.
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I'm so sad that no one has played H-Arc lately. I think she hasn't been tapped in and turned gay like C-Arc and F-Arc have.
I haven't seen much of her teleport (all moons have it) so it might be ass compared to Warc's.
Harc is one of the most zzzzzzzzzz characters ever. I'd rather watch a good Htohno.
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6940518 < LADDER LOOP
Courtesy of Psybrade
12:55 Hisui combo is lolz.
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This month's issue of Arcadia has an MBAA tier list made by top Shiki player はと(Hato), here is Versus City's (very bad) translation of it
http://www.versuscity.net/2009/06/30/arcadia-august-tier-list-trouble/
..Yeah, you'll notice Akiha is in 3 places and Kohaku in 2 places on that list, not to mention Shiki and Hisui being completely absent. Luckily, I have the text from the original page, so here a better translation
アルカランク
神 吸血シオンH
S メカヒスイC
A ネロFH、志HC、琥珀CH、都古CF、七夜C、ヒスコハCF
B 青子FH、悪アルクC、赤秋葉F、翡翠H、白レンF、さつきC、シオンC、アルクF
C シエルC、キシマF、リーズF、ワラキアC、秋葉CH、ロアHF、レンH、猫C
God: H-VSion
S: C-Mech Hisui
A: F/H-Nero, H/C-Shiki, C/H-Kohaku, C/F-Miyako, C-Nanaya, C/F-Maids
B: F/H-Aoko, C-Warc, F-VAkiha, H-Hisui, F-WLen, C-Satsuki, C-Sion, F-Arc
C: C-Ciel, F-Kouma, F-Ries, C-Wara, C/H-Akiha, H/F-Roa, H-Len, C-Neco
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Wow, is that for real? C-Ciel... is C Tier? WTF. And how can C-Sion be B tier when no one plays her...
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lolol
God: H V Sion
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Random character styles are just missing?
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God: H-VSion
S: C-Mech Hisui
i would put F-Miyako at S, but i agree
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The last tier list was more accurate IMO. F-Kouma and H-Akiha being C tier is lol. I can see C-Ciel being where she's at. Not to say where she was before was wrong ( Although F-Ciel's should've close to her and I thought she should've been B+ tier )
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The last ones were more accurate because they were averaged from a number of top players, not just taking one top player's opinion.
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I think F-Kouma's C-Tier because of the damage nerf. You have to do so much with such a high chance of failure to do just 3.9k
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The last ones were more accurate because they were averaged from a number of top players, not just taking one top player's opinion.
Yeah which brings me to ask is that the same Hato that played V.Akiha back in AC or is this another person.
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The last ones were more accurate because they were averaged from a number of top players, not just taking one top player's opinion.
Yeah which brings me to ask is that the same Hato that played V.Akiha back in AC or is this another person.
It's the same Hato, he switched to Shiki in MBAA
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Whats the deal with C-Warc? her stuff doesnt work that well anymore?
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I find it hard to believe she's that worse off for the most part now. Her jb is slower but like, everybody's air normals are slower too so it's still ridiculously fast compared to everyone anyway. She has Geass Ring and better combo options...idk, maybe I'm missing something.
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her mistic eyes seens good but not everyone is using it...
And the scariest thing is that her natural enemy is now S XD
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i like F-Warc more, just 236a/b all the way :psyduck:
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I wsaw some F-warc footage... pretty nasty.. but from what I saw, C-Warc is more my Style.. u know I am a marvel 2 player...
Run away, control space all day then attack... I like that vision.
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I wsaw some F-warc footage... pretty nasty.. but from what I saw, C-Warc is more my Style.. u know I am a marvel 2 player...
Run away, control space all day then attack... I like that vision.
youd be better off playing akiha then.
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I wsaw some F-warc footage... pretty nasty.. but from what I saw, C-Warc is more my Style.. u know I am a marvel 2 player...
Run away, control space all day then attack... I like that vision.
youd be better off playing akiha then.
oh dont say that -__- I actuallly dont like her.... more like.... so many ppl play her that I started to not like to play her....
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youd be better off playing akiha then.
best avatar.
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I wsaw some F-warc footage... pretty nasty.. but from what I saw, C-Warc is more my Style.. u know I am a marvel 2 player...
Run away, control space all day then attack... I like that vision.
youd be better off playing akiha then.
oh dont say that -__- I actuallly dont like her.... more like.... so many ppl play her that I started to not like to play her....
IT'S MAHVAL BABY IT'S MAHVAL!
but anyways, so your saying you don't want to play the characters that everyone plays? that's fine but you should give her a try. I've seen some crazy Akiha players.
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If you want insane controlling of space and the like, run F-Akiha. Not many people will use her, either, so don't worry too much about that.
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marvel players don't like okizeme
then again she has unblockable setups
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marvel players don't like okizeme
then again she has unblockable setups
Thats not true.... magneto have some good okizeme game XD... a little...... well ppl don't really know but I am parracticing chun-li, and now online I am really winning agains some good players... and she has an strong okizeme....
anyway anyway....puting mahvel aside,
I am wondering why Warc is that low..... sure that her 2A is worst... but.... oh welll I think only playing I will know.. (no arcades here -__-)....maybe my game remains ok since I play with her since Final Tuned Time....
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no PS2 tier list yet?
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Its been a week you silly man calm yourself.
But here you can have this
Banned Tier: Archetype: Earth
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no PS2 tier list yet?
Yeah, they only make tiers after there has been sufficient enough play to see how the characters fare against each other with the new balance.
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I wanna main G-Akiha so badly :psyduck:
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I wanna main G-Akiha so badly :psyduck:
b&
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do we even have a full list of the ps2 changes yet? o_o
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do we even have a full list of the ps2 changes yet? o_o
Not as far as I know. Really though, the only thing you need to know is...
DEER JOUSTING!
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DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKED
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Yeah, they only make tiers after there has been sufficient enough play to see how the characters fare against each other with the new balance.
yeah, let's hope the hardcores remember what a ps2 is. I'd really like to see S.aki and Ryougi in high lvl matches.
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I need to know who is top tier so I can choose my character already!
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Whatever tier doesn't matter, if you are good u still own with a low tier character ;D
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What's this most recent tier list from Psy?
lol at F Shiki being A tier.
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What's this most recent tier list from Psy?
lol at F Shiki being A tier.
its the power of banana's
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its the power of banana's
I love when people seriously cry about his 236, forgetting that it's completely shield-bunkerable XD
Also Tier whores stop whoring |:<
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its the power of banana's
I love when people seriously cry about his 236, forgetting that it's completely shield-bunkerable XD
Also Tier whores stop whoring |:<
I'm pretty sure FShiki being good isn't because of 236A spamming.
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I never said it was, I'm just saying I laugh when people seriously try to say that he is because of that >_>;
Bananas ftw, btw~
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Here's the latest tier list with the expanded C tier (I listed out all the characters instead of being lazy like the original one that just put them in "everyone else"). Hopefully I didn't forget or double anyone. I'll assume they didn't mean for there to be any order within the tiers themselves.
S: H-Kohaku H-VSion H-Shiki C-Mech
A+: F-Maids C-Kohaku C-Shiki C/F-Miyako H/F-Nero
A: C-Nanaya C-Warc F-Arc F-Aoko F-VAkiha C-Nero F-Shiki F-Kohaku C-Maids
B: C/H/F-Akiha F-WLen F-Kouma C/H-Hisui C-Ciel F-Ries H/F-Mech H-Miyako H/F-Nanaya H-Maids F-VSion C-Wara H-Sion H-Satsuki H-VAkiha H-Roa C/H-Aoko H-Len C/H-Arc H/F-Warc
C: C/F-Roa C/F-Len C/F-Sion C-Vakiha C/F-Satsuki C/H-Kouma F-Hisui H/F-Ciel C/H-Ries C-Vsion C/H-Wlen H/F-Wara C/H/F Neco
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I still think it's retarded to tier characters like that, characters should be tiered as an overall basis of all their styles, since you can switch styles after winning, a character with a lot of variation between their styles is at an advantage since they can adopt to matchups. For example I would consider Arc a very good character in that all her styles are pretty good and fairly different, although none of them are top tier, but it gives her an advantage over chars that only have 1 good style.
Putting that aside this tierlist is stupid-retarded and furthers my opinion that tierlists are nothing more than objective bias shit and people should think for themselves and form their own opinions, but despite that there will be tons of retards who take this as gospel because the japs said it.
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no ryougi?
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Ryougi is console exclusive, and I don't think console-exclusive characters, or the console in general, existed when the tiers for arcade were sorted.
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i play melty blood in europe
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i play melty blood in europe
:o :o :o :o :o
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I still think it's retarded to tier characters like that, characters should be tiered as an overall basis of all their styles, since you can switch styles after winning, a character with a lot of variation between their styles is at an advantage since they can adopt to matchups. For example I would consider Arc a very good character in that all her styles are pretty good and fairly different, although none of them are top tier, but it gives her an advantage over chars that only have 1 good style.
If anything I would say make both types of tier lists. Just for the sake of argument because I have no fucking idea nor do I think anyone else does on what every matchup is, say VSion has even or advantageous matchups throughout the entire roster in Half, but Crescent and Full are all even or disadvantageous. Her overall ranking (according to the most recently posted tier list) would be mid, mid-high. Overall she might be average but when she has one dominant style it doesn't matter if her others are lacking.
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I still think it's retarded to tier characters like that, characters should be tiered as an overall basis of all their styles, since you can switch styles after winning, a character with a lot of variation between their styles is at an advantage since they can adopt to matchups. For example I would consider Arc a very good character in that all her styles are pretty good and fairly different, although none of them are top tier, but it gives her an advantage over chars that only have 1 good style.
Putting that aside this tierlist is stupid-retarded and furthers my opinion that tierlists are nothing more than objective bias shit and people should think for themselves and form their own opinions, but despite that there will be tons of retards who take this as gospel because the japs said it.
IMO it's okay to tier characters like that. Since for some characters there's quite a vast difference between styles, one wouldn't really be able to just switch styles like that as he would have to entirely change his playing style. Take Nanaya for example. C-Nanaya prides himself as being a rushdown pressure maniac. F-Nanaya has to focus more on oki and counterhits. It's almost as if they're two different characters.
But still, tiers don't really matter as it's the players that count more.
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i play melty blood in europe
:o :o :o :o :o
jiyuna teach me how to play melty blood so I can take your money at NEC please, LK is a ghost
tia
edit: sabator i love you and all but european mb has to be even worse than american melty
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Tiers are pretty gay in general, but they do hold one absolute truth:
The Broken Characters. God-damn them :|
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*sigh*
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*sigh*
Goes the Ciel player @_@
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All the Akihas... B tier? Nooooooo :slowpoke:
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*sigh*
Goes the Ciel player @_@
Top tier=/=Broken so try again.
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*sigh*
Goes the Ciel player @_@
Top tier=/=Broken so try again.
Lol well I'm just used to MBAC Ciel... damn her ._.
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I play C-Roa, none of you should be complaining in comparison :psyduck:
But seriously, console re-balance != Arcade balence
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tiers are just popular opinion lol
then again, each character has different matchups against the rest of the cast, there's no reason why a low tier character can't have an advantageous matchup against a top tier character
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Putting that aside this tierlist is stupid-retarded and furthers my opinion that tierlists are nothing more than objective bias shit and people should think for themselves and form their own opinions, but despite that there will be tons of retards who take this as gospel because the japs said it.
I'd accept Japanese opinion a million years before listening to a Euro's opinion or an American's opinion.
:V
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I think you're kind of missing the point.
Sab wasn't saying "don't listen to Japanese players", he said form your own opinion. Opinions are pretty much exclusively created and shaped by what you experience so taking on board what other people say isn't the problem, it's just blindly accepting stuff for what someone else thinks. If you're not an idiot this will more than often be similar to what most most people's conceptions are anyway, but too many people really just leech/imitate and never think about anything themselves.
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Most scrubs are tier whores anyways ;D
As I mentioned earlier on, just play what you like and learn all you can on that character before jumping on to another. If you are good, it doesn't matter what tier the character is, I know alot of people who can still pwn with low tier characters.
And if you are just starting out, then obviously pick a easier character to learn with would be advisable instead of a more complex character.
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This game does not have any bad characters. As [someone in irc] said, this game has broken characters, retarded characters, and pretty solid characters.
that being said there isn't a lot of excuse for not being able to take any given non-joke character and win with them. pretty much every character can pressure, mixup, or zone to a useful extent including the ones at C tier. ask 3s sean if he can do that and you'll understand the difference between the lightweight of these tiers and the more significant tiers of other games.
EDIT for moar:
my point is that you should play who you want to play, and that tiers should not stop you from doing so because as i said they really don't matter especially given the situation that the US scene is in (small and without a lot of knowledge of the game). not even for the point that each player is comfortable with certain playstyles and they should find a character with one, but just for the reason that they like a character. the more you like and are interested by the mechanics of the character, the more you will naturally sit down and discover your own tech, practice combos/blockstrings/pressure, and the more you will think about the possibilities of the character for new tech when not actively playing or talking about the game. i picked both my characters for AA because i was really hype for kara no kyoukai and because i had a lot of fun with rings, and neither are on any tier list still. even back in AC ps2, i don't even remember why i picked kouma because i was way more interested by aoko at the time, and look how far i got with him in terms of exploring the character.
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Everyone except for top tier and moon styles no one wants to use are pretty much on the same tier anyways.
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zone... ask 3s sean if he can do that.
Basketball!!!
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zone... ask 3s sean if he can do that.
Hey I've seen Sean basketball diss Ken SA3 combo for a win and him super straight through a Chun SA2 on reaction for punish. Clearly a broken character.
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This game does not have any bad characters. As [someone in irc] said, this game has broken characters, retarded characters, and pretty solid characters.
There's really no one 'broken' IMO in AA.
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This game does not have any bad characters. As [someone in irc] said, this game has broken characters, retarded characters, and pretty solid characters.
There's really no one 'broken' IMO in AA.
Except for Arch. Earth of course.
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Here's the latest tier list with the expanded C tier (I listed out all the characters instead of being lazy like the original one that just put them in "everyone else"). Hopefully I didn't forget or double anyone. I'll assume they didn't mean for there to be any order within the tiers themselves.
S: H-Kohaku H-VSion H-Shiki C-Mech
A+: F-Maids C-Kohaku C-Shiki C/F-Miyako H/F-Nero
A: C-Nanaya C-Warc F-Arc F-Aoko F-VAkiha C-Nero F-Shiki F-Kohaku C-Maids
B: C/H/F-Akiha F-WLen F-Kouma C/H-Hisui C-Ciel F-Ries H/F-Mech H-Miyako H/F-Nanaya H-Maids F-VSion C-Wara H-Sion H-Satsuki H-VAkiha H-Roa C/H-Aoko H-Len C/H-Arc H/F-Warc
C: C/F-Roa C/F-Len C/F-Sion C-Vakiha C/F-Satsuki C/H-Kouma F-Hisui H/F-Ciel C/H-Ries C-Vsion C/H-Wlen H/F-Wara C/H/F Neco
Is this still the latest tier list? I'd heard that WLen is higher now.
This is just out of curiosity though; I'll stick to Akiha through thick and thin :)
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Those are still arcade balance tiers correct?
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Those are still arcade balance tiers correct?
Yeah. No ps2 balance tiers have come out because Japan basically only plays in arcades or on arcade balance.
I bet if the top US players got together and put some thought on it, we could get a ps2 balance tier list based on the old tiers, who was buffed/nerfed in ps2, and whatever personal experience they can attribute.
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I haven't gotten to any big tourneys for this since they're almost unanimously east coast and I live on WC, but I'm the best player here and I won the only AA tourney we've had so far. I wouldn't mind helping :psyduck:
I'm betting most of the old top tiers are still the tops though, sans H V-Sion.
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IMO, F-Sakiha is B tier (I wish there was a B+ or A- section), H is b tier also, C is definitely C (how appropriate). I also think C-WLen should be B tier instead of C.
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thanks, ill print out this tier list @ my local library after i put it on my floppy disk
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H-Ries, C-W Len, and F-Ciel should be bumped up to B tier, imo.
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If you ask me, Full Moon Sakiha is bottom tier. Her main problems are zoning, maintaining pressure, oki, mixup and average combo damage, which I can safely say are quite bad.
Zoning and Pressure
She has trouble against most of the cast in this department. Characters like Nrvnqsr, F Tohno Akiha, Ciel, Mech, White Len, Aoko, beat the crap out of her. Her above average speed helps, but at the same time it is hard to maintain pressure once you do get in since she can not reverse beat or use any of her predictable Specials. Her DP helps against opponents jumping out and her Jedah Wheels can provide some support. But only the EX DP is invincible and is highly punishable if shielded or blocked. Her wheels come out way too slow to be used safely, and disappear if you get hit or if your throw gets broken.
Oki and Mix Up
One thing that has to be mentioned first is she can't get in a proper oki after her air grab. With that said, you have all the basic high, low, throw mix up, which she can do off a sweep or ground throw. She has no real cross up game without the use of Instant Heat, no unblockable and has not real good overhead. She has to rely on her air normals and her really obvious 214B for overhead attacks. TKing wheel or a simple jump in can start a high to low mix up game, but she has nothing for low to high mix up. You have to either go for more lows or try a tick throw if you plan on starting your oki with a low. For the overhead air attack themselves, you are a little limited since you can't dash cancel.
Combos
Basically, you can do a short low damage combo and get oki or, get in a good damage combo with no oki. She can get in a very nice combo that can top out around 6500, but you need a max bar to Instant Heat, and your opponent has to be in the corner.
Characters like B tier H Tohno Akiha, can get in a full combo, knockdown with oki, and has better pressure and has the highest defensive in the game. F Seifuku can't even touch that.
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Speaking as an H-Ryougi player, she really feels mid-tier to me. A bit weak on pressure, slow normals, and nothing glaringly spectacular about her aside from her above average range. Her range is great, but you hardly use it once you're knocked down and in the corner.
I'm no F or C specialist, so I can't really comment on them. But I would venture to say C has better tools than H, in more ways than one.
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C Ryuogi can be a contender for top if you ask me. She has very good mix up and pressure with all the awesome high low guessing games, unblockables, cross ups, and Arc Drive shenanigans. The C and F versions of Ryougi can benefit from the instant kill glitch. But even without it, she can easily run with the top tiers.
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C Ryuogi can be a contender for top if you ask me. She has very good mix up and pressure with all the awesome high low guessing games, unblockables, cross ups, and Arc Drive shenanigans. The C and F versions of Ryougi can benefit from the instant kill glitch. But even without it, she can easily run with the top tiers.
Yo, Ryougi as a whole doesn't really have shit for mixups. High/low for ryougi is a joke. The only viable overhead she really has is on the second hit of her rekka, and guess what she can't do on the second hit of her rekka - a low hit. There's that quick backspin kick (4c I think?) for some styles, but that has garbage range and her optimum range is just far enough where she can outpoke the opponent. C and F have unblockables and AD setups. That's about it as far as setups and mixups go for Ryougi. Her pressure is okay, she has some decent reversals depending on style, and her range is godlike. That's about it. Oh, and she takes damage like a bitch. I'd say she's B, maybe low A.
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I would have to agree with loli on this one, as one more note H-Ryougi has really good guard and chip damage, but again, she suffers from a lack of real mixups.
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You're saying C-Ryuogi is contender for top, while you say F-Sakiha is scraping the barrel? What kinda whackiness is this?
F-SAkiha averages +4k for basic BNB, and is neutral after air throw. Meaning you can air throw them into the corner and attempt to mixup (2b stager with 5b, occasional 214.) She has really good IH setups to get meter back, a good arc drive (which has good setups too.) She has 2 crossup air normals (j.c, j.b only on crouchers.) Anti heat setup which leads to her 22a loop which is meterless.
While you look at Ryougi, who is one of the most linear characters in the game, has the most obvious high/low game you can block on reaction, you can call her close to top? I think you have to play some good players or something, because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
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top US players got together and put some thought on it, we could get a ps2 balance tier list based on the old tiers, who was buffed/nerfed in ps2, and whatever personal experience they can attribute.
Who do we consider top players? I mean obviously the EC guys, but it'll get kinda hectic if everyone posts their own opinions without being good at said character, or having a full understanding of what they can do
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I think Ryougi would be in the A-B range leaning more towards A. While she's low on hi-lo mixups she has several 6-4 mixup options some of which I might qualify as hi-low. Most notably 214c vs 421c, if you go to duck the 214c and they pulled a 421c instead you get hit by the overhead, although I'm sure most of you agree that 214c isn't that good so if they don't duck the worst they get is blockstun.
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Ryougi isn't anywhere close to top, sorry. H and C don't have long enough range to really abuse well enough to be useful, and as for H and C rushdown, honestly X-COPYing banana shiki would be more effective (which is still good but you're arguing contender for top). It's hard for any style of ryougi to get strong enough knockdowns to start any kind of good pressure because her airthrow sucks and she doesn't really have a lot of moves that would be useful for a setup anyway. Add that she doesn't have a ton of moves that are neutral on block and you have a weak pressure game. F Ryougi benefits from lots of range and as a result, a good amount of abare with a more the great ability to get those random hits. However, her pressure is even weaker and has to be done carefully and under certain circumstances. What she does gain is 5[c], which, in addition to her unblockable rekka ender, at least keep the opponent on their toes while chipping away slowly at their lifebar from a safe distance. Her air to air is the best in the game, but her air to ground is probably the worst, creating issues since once you jump you've either already won or already lost depending on where your opponent is. I'd put F over C and H because she actually offers something that most other characters don't have (bias I know). However, I'd still put them all at upper-mid tier (A, although not A+) at absolute best, realistically being at B with everyone else
TSK, you make FSAkiha sound a lot worse than she actually is. She is bottom (since bottom in this game is pretty good), but more than usable and possibly useful for specific matchups. The zoning she can do with rings is actually pretty good since the rings stay out so long and she can do them from anywhere, and 22a/b and 214a/b as blockstring enders are decent and safe enough to be worth it to try and pressure. The rings are also really great for guard breaking people which can be really effective against some characters who jump a lot. When you start catching your opponent off guard and successfully pull off random rings in the corner for pressure, then her pressure/mixup actually starts getting a bit interesting and fairly good so there's at least some potential there. That being said, she's one of few characters who can both zone a lot of the screen (combining air mobility and rings) as well as pressure (with rings). If her rings couldn't be dealt with very easily on reaction (see ring -> dash forward can rape her and it really isn't that hard) she'd easily be at B tier with everyone else or possibly better than that, so IF you can manage to be random enough with your rings to not get punished for throwing them out in the corner, you can do well.
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I sat down and watched H Ryougi combo vids again, and I changed my opinion of her a little. She has excellent combos, what with sweep loops and knife throw extenders. That small fact puts her above C and F moon in regards to the amount of damage she can dish out, which is a lot. She doesn't have any sandoori level mixups, but she does have very basic traps using her arc drive. A lot of her moves give untechable knockdowns as well.
4C is a terrible overhead for being so short-ranged, but she can go into them rather easily from just a simple 2A 5B > 4C block string. Plus, if you manage to land one, a sweep loop is waiting for you (depending on the character of course). A blocked Air j.C > 6A+B > j.C is another example of a basic mixup game. You can ignore the second j.C and just land normally, and move into a low hitting move. 214B is alright as far as overheads go, but it's not too reliable as it kills momentum on block.
Her guard crush strings are pretty beefy though.
j.C > 6A+B > j.C (land) 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C >22A > 2A 5BB 2B 5C 2C 214C > j.B (land) 2A 5BB...
I'm not so sure if F would be better than C or H due to her damage output. It's pretty small. Her range saves her, but put that against a character with even more range and she's at a disadvantage (I'm thinking of F Nero for example).
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Not too sure if you need to high/low much with H-ryougi since you can just go for guard breaks/counter hits. She can outzone a good deal of the cast, but her moves come out really slowly, and she has no real way to get out of pressure outside of jumping out or getting lucky with a poke. I think tier-wise she'd be somewhere between A- and B.
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Not too sure if you need to high/low much with H-ryougi since you can just go for guard breaks/counter hits. She can outzone a good deal of the cast, but her moves come out really slowly, and she has no real way to get out of pressure outside of jumping out or getting lucky with a poke. I think tier-wise she'd be somewhere between A- and B.
B tier because she's a proud member of the "I have zero health" club =)
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H is weakest Ryougi. You have guard crush, but you lose AAD and unblockables, which are some of Ryougi's best assets. The abare that F Ryougi nets with her mad range makes up for the damage that H can do with sweep loop. I'm pretty confident in saying that Ryougi is B tier.
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If you ask me, Full Moon Sakiha is bottom tier. Her main problems are zoning, maintaining pressure, oki, mixup and average combo damage, which I can safely say are quite bad.
Zoning and Pressure
She has trouble against most of the cast in this department. Characters like Nrvnqsr, F Tohno Akiha, Ciel, Mech, White Len, Aoko, beat the crap out of her. Her above average speed helps, but at the same time it is hard to maintain pressure once you do get in since she can not reverse beat or use any of her predictable Specials. Her DP helps against opponents jumping out and her Jedah Wheels can provide some support. But only the EX DP is invincible and is highly punishable if shielded or blocked. Her wheels come out way too slow to be used safely, and disappear if you get hit or if your throw gets broken.
Oki and Mix Up
One thing that has to be mentioned first is she can't get in a proper oki after her air grab. With that said, you have all the basic high, low, throw mix up, which she can do off a sweep or ground throw. She has no real cross up game without the use of Instant Heat, no unblockable and has not real good overhead. She has to rely on her air normals and her really obvious 214B for overhead attacks. TKing wheel or a simple jump in can start a high to low mix up game, but she has nothing for low to high mix up. You have to either go for more lows or try a tick throw if you plan on starting your oki with a low. For the overhead air attack themselves, you are a little limited since you can't dash cancel.
Combos
Basically, you can do a short low damage combo and get oki or, get in a good damage combo with no oki. She can get in a very nice combo that can top out around 6500, but you need a max bar to Instant Heat, and your opponent has to be in the corner.
Characters like B tier H Tohno Akiha, can get in a full combo, knockdown with oki, and has better pressure and has the highest defensive in the game. F Seifuku can't even touch that.
Please mention what character you're doing combos against, as damage is different on each character.
... She can zone and she has tools like her rings n shit.
She has one of the fastest dashes in the game... Zero did a combo which did (starting with 5a) 4.4k to my C-Ryougi (probably mid 3k+ on other characters) ending in air throw and allowed time for oki.
I honestly don't know why she would even be bottom tier for what you listed...
For my character C-Ryougi. I think she's probably A or B tier... Rayza says she's A. She has great normals (not as much range as F, but more damage)easy confirms, she can make uses out of her rebeat. She has barely any mixup game, it's either unblockable or half charge. On Oki, she can do stupid grab stuff which you can't mash 2A to beat her grab on wakeup (not tech). So she can do oki grab, or something like 5BB which eats jumps all day. She's got throwing knives and an unblockable throwing knife for pressure.
C-Ryougi has no reversal or DP. One sandoori with her j.B and yeah. She's seems to be a solid character who can do around 4k+ midscreen against V-Sion. She only has real knockdown stuff in the corner which nets around 4.7k and needs 100% meter. She also has 63214C Loop which does DUMB damage. She doesn't really have too much of an anti-air ga
F and C Ryougi are good from what I've seen. H is most Hype, but not as good.
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Fair enough; we will have to agree to disagree on F and H. AAD is difficult enough to get on it's own, and come December 26th it will most likely get patched / fixed / removed if Ryougi gets put into Final Tuned. Unblockables are indeed good, but they don't net any extra damage if one hits, so in my mind 4C into sweep loop is a better deal than 5[C]. Ryougi needs every bit to compete, no matter what the moon.
Back when MBAA was still fresh, I had a hell of a hard time as it was trying to figure out which moon to stick to. If H is considered low tier, then I'm going to try my absolute hardest to at the very least, change that notion.
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Fair enough; we will have to agree to disagree on F and H. AAD is difficult enough to get on it's own, and come December 26th it will most likely get patched / fixed / removed if Ryougi gets put into Final Tuned. Unblockables are indeed good, but they don't net any extra damage if one hits, so in my mind 4C into sweep loop is a better deal than 5[C]. Ryougi needs every bit to compete, no matter what the moon.
Back when MBAA was still fresh, I had a hell of a hard time as it was trying to figure out which moon to stick to. If H is considered low tier, then I'm going to try my absolute hardest to at the very least, change that notion.
You should keep in mind though, that 4C isn't all that fast, and that her sweep loop doesn't work on a good chunk of the cast. Her knife catch (mini)game is pretty exciting though.
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You should keep in mind though, that 4C isn't all that fast, and that her sweep loop doesn't work on a good chunk of the cast. Her knife catch (mini)game is pretty exciting though.
That's true, it doesn't work on the entire cast. Nanaya and Tohno have her number on that one. But so far as people it does work on (off the top of my head), it includes Akiha, Arcueid, Nero, Warachia, and Sion.
And yes, knife catches are addictive :D
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I dont really fear S.Akihas or Ryougis with my bottom tier C-Sion. Imo pretty much both characters work best on the ground in an air based game. Sure F-Ryougi can be pretty dominant in the air but everyone has an antiair vs her. Ill place them at Low A at best but I see them struggling against F_Kohaku and up.
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I dont really fear S.Akihas or Ryougis with my bottom tier C-Sion. Imo pretty much both characters work best on the ground in an air based game. Sure F-Ryougi can be pretty dominant in the air but everyone has an antiair vs her. Ill place them at Low A at best but I see them struggling against F_Kohaku and up.
How many good S.Akiha or Ryougi players have you played?
Exactly.
...fuck me. :(
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I dont really fear S.Akihas or Ryougis with my bottom tier C-Sion. Imo pretty much both characters work best on the ground in an air based game. Sure F-Ryougi can be pretty dominant in the air but everyone has an antiair vs her. Ill place them at Low A at best but I see them struggling against F_Kohaku and up.
How many good S.Akiha or Ryougi players are there?
Exactly.
...fuck me. :(
Fixed.
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Easier/simplier characters start out higher and tier lists then move down as people learn how to deal with the small bag of tricks they got (see: zangief). C Ryougi, and i guess H Ryougi apply here. Everything that everyone has said is good about her can be applied to almost any good character regardless of why they're good. Basically, what has been said can be summarized with "she has good normals, good damage, good pressure with rebeats, good oki with hit/throw...." ...which also applies to ANY character above B tier and many within it, so what exactly makes her better than those characters?
High damage that you have to work for being better than easier damage than can be gotten easily and many ways? It ultimately depends on the amount of damage and the exact circumstances but keep in mind that if you deal tons of damage but have only one way to deal it, your opponent is going to be playing the matchup hard and making sure it's hard for you to get that. However, having easy unblockables that are extremely safe and and applicable in most situations you find yourself in, as well as many ways/setups to use them is going to give your opponent more mental stress on how to deal with them rather than yourself; this often results in deciding who is controlling the pace of the fight which is very important in any fg.
Either way this whole debate is kind of moot now because of the announcement of MBAAFT; it will be one year at the very very latest until we see all moons of Ryougi in a solid spot in the tier list after enough tech has been discovered and explored. You'd be better off asking what makes x character top/high tier; you might actually learn good matchup information for your next tournament match.
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I dont really fear S.Akihas or Ryougis with my bottom tier C-Sion. Imo pretty much both characters work best on the ground in an air based game. Sure F-Ryougi can be pretty dominant in the air but everyone has an antiair vs her. Ill place them at Low A at best but I see them struggling against F_Kohaku and up.
How many good S.Akiha or Ryougi players are there?
Exactly.
...fuck me. :(
Fixed.
I'll get better :(
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Console/Joke Char tier
Ryougi > S Akiha = Mecha+Koha >> Mecha+Neko > Neco arc = NAC
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Looking at the latest tier list and I don't see c-sacchin on it, which means she is in the everyone else C-tier again....hmmmm ohh well, this game is fairly balanced.
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Console/Joke Char tier
Ryougi > S Akiha = Mecha+Koha >> Mecha+Neko > Neco arc = NAC
NA is better than NAC :|
Anyways on a more relevant note, is there any sort of tentative tierlist for either CC or PS2, seeing as how a fairly large number of balancing changes have been made?(H-Koha having her command throw damage raped for example)
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Hey has there been any new tier updates and for Ryougi/S.Akiha i would say H>F>C Ryougi
H>C>F S.Akiha.
EDIT:I play H and i think that she is good but no one has really seen her.The only Ryougi that really well know is Rei and he only use C so than is what people see most of the time.No one has really shown what full can do also.
P.S. This is Jin winter rage from dl missedFRC.
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H-Ryougi is easily the best version of her.
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^Agreed.
I'd have to say Ryougi goes H>C>F, but I haven't seen F, so maybe H>C=F?
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I thought Ryougi was H>C and C>F
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For Ryougi and Sakiha imo its
Ryougi: H>F>C
Sakiha: C>H>F
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IMO, I think Ryougi may be H >= C > F.
Reasons:
Given Ryougi's main point is pressuring in order to keep her fragile life intact, H and C, with the ability to reverse beat, have this much easier than F-Ryougi (but that might be simply because I just suck at F-moon charas).
I consider C and H about equal since while H does have guard crush, C has unblockables to mindfuck with people. However, H's combo potential seems a fair bit higher than that of C's (given 22A, 3C, etc) so I think that puts H slightly above C.
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I still vote that yoshino's very existence bumps Ren/Len up a tier. But should still be a while before any kind of 'comprehensive' console tier will show up.
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For Ryougi... H>>>>>>> The other two. Don't even worry about them, just let me and Nas play them as gimmicks :prinny:
F has fast range pokes, C has more damage and rebeat primarily. F's pressure isn't all too bad, seeing as the 2nd hit of the rekkas will fuck with people. Charged is + on block, so no jumping out, and the 2nd hit uncharged is pretty much a blockstring reset. Which you either keep blocking, shield, backdash, etc since she just outspaces you.
Nas usually beats me in our mirror matches, though both of us have shitty experience in it (seeing as I rely on outspacing opponents in blockstrings and can't do that) and I don't think nas is used to facing against people who get up faster (lolRyougi) But the last time we played was pretty close. I'd say C>F mainly due to damage output >>> . But F blockstrings are pretty scary (Though I'm playing as Ryougi so I'm paper :() I still think C > F, but I'm getting outplayed (even though F's j.B is such a bullshit move). Damn yo, I need to step shit up.
Like honestly, put H and S tier. C and F are around A tier or so IMO. It sucks we have no good JP players to watch. Though it's weird, I'm so goddamn inconsistent :(. Doing great one day, sucking the next... I really should just practice more. (Though I find it odd that I tend to outplace Nas at majors. Prolly just brackets)
H is a lot better than C. Knife catch, 3C, high ass damage combos leading into MASSIVE heat gain, leading into LIFE REGEN is gorgeous. Also knife catch mixups, and midscreen loops are sexy.
C's pressure isn't as good as people thing. There is lag after airdash, and startup on the ground dash. Making it really hard to keep people in safe. The best I can do is just super long ass blockstrings with all of my ground normals, into 22C then rinse/repeat into guardbreak (or knife pickup cancel if they EX guard) or grab after the initial 22C lol.
in short H>>C>F
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C Ryougi has that amazing 5A whiff cancel and better jumping normals. C is the only moon that has a j.A that can rebeat into itself in the air (which is great for people who have quick air normals like Miyako), a j.B sandoori that actually hits consistenly on both sides, and a plethora of unblockables that get her around easily. Charged 623A makes for a fun game of chicken (lol).
Not to mention it's the only moon that has more control over it's own lifebar than the other styles.
I've been dabbling in F a bit more these days, and she plays like Jekyll and Hide -- a great spacing-oriented footsie game that turns deadly when her offensive flow gets started.
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I have to say I prefer C-Ryougi over the other two. Mostly because I prefer gimmicky play over power. I'd have to say tier wise H>C>F mostly because H has the knife catch mixups and I can't really wrap my head around F to the point where I can play it properly.
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h/f nero should be bumped down a tier for console. A/B/C is also too broad. need +/-'s. also need an F tier for necos and neco players
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the reasons the placing is inconsistent cuse i end up playing fighting the killas first (aka SPOOKY EVERY FUCKING BBG!!).. not to say i don't mind it but damn yo....
also as far ryougi moon tiers it's H>C>F, H and C have better options imo (ala better setups)... but i wouldn't sleep on F.. she has pretty godlike normals... 2A, 5B, j.B, J.C, 3C (although i still messing with in practice) are all pretty solid imo
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the reasons the placing is inconsistent cuse i end up playing fighting the killas first (aka SPOOKY EVERY FUCKING BBG!!).. not to say i don't mind it but damn yo....
also as far ryougi moon tiers it's H>C>F, H and C have better options imo (ala better setups)... but i wouldn't sleep on F.. she has pretty godlike normals... 2A, 5B, j.B, J.C, 3C (although i still messing with in practice) are all pretty solid imo
Yeah. F-Ryougi has an awesome neutral game, not the best pressure or gimmicks, but her normals and reach are ridiculous.
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also to comment that F-ryougi can't out range a Nero.... i've done enough times that i've beaten any normal that gets thrown at me...
the only thing i think stops ryougi from getting higher is her bleeding health... and wtf about overheads... the fact that she doesn't need a overhead to win must tell you something.. shit i don't think i ever used an overhead since i started playing..hell any good ryougi using the overhead would put a question mark on my head sometimes... her sheer guard break power is too hard not to ignore... i swear i get muthafuckas either gaurdbroken.. or to the point that they need to start making decisons on how to get out.. and F's pressure system is nothing compared to C or H.. and im seeing Snozz going out there. almost guard breaking.. the thing with ryougi is she forces you to make decisons... waste bar.. do risky things ( you don't how many times people were coming out with air shields because F's j.b is too annoying to deal with...)
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also to comment that F-ryougi can't out range a Nero.... i've done enough times that i've beaten any normal that gets thrown at me...
the only thing i think stops ryougi from getting higher is her bleeding health... and wtf about overheads... the fact that she doesn't need a overhead to win must tell you something.. shit i don't think i ever used an overhead since i started playing..hell any good ryougi using the overhead would put a question mark on my head sometimes... her sheer guard break power is too hard not to ignore... i swear i get muthafuckas either gaurdbroken.. or to the point that they need to start making decisons on how to get out.. and F's pressure system is nothing compared to C or H.. and im seeing Snozz going out there. almost guard breaking.. the thing with ryougi is she forces you to make decisons... waste bar.. do risky things ( you don't how many times people were coming out with air shields because F's j.b is too annoying to deal with...)
^This
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Dude, the priority and reach on her normals is a bit much.
I wouldn't give a fuck otherwise but I'm at a loss at how to fight a character with a normal that almost entirely encompasses the visible vertical reach of the playing field.
Meh.
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It's like you guys can't EX Guard or something. :-\
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It's like you guys can't EX Guard or something. :-\
Yeah, for C and F moons, Ex-guard can really screw with Ryougi's guard crushes. That and shield bunkering...
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I play H.
:|
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h-214d > ryougi
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h-214d > ryougi
unless it's baited... then -100 heat and nothing for h moon :/
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yea... go ahead and shield bunker... then you get baited.. OOPP AWW...
also EX-guard...sure...people ex guard.. just not all the time.. and i can assure i will break gaurds just as fast you ex-guard them..
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Yeah a lot of the solutions that people are suggesting against Ryougi can also be used against 4/5 of the cast :/
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yea... go ahead and shield bunker... then you get baited.. OOPP AWW...
also EX-guard...sure...people ex guard.. just not all the time.. and i can assure i will break gaurds just as fast you ex-guard them..
If you get your guard broken in C or F moon then you are not good at EX Guarding. :/ You can't break guard as fast you EX guard because EX guard completely prevents being guard broken in the first place.
The H-Ryougi blockstrings that guard crush are extremely repetitive and are pretty easy to EX Guard.
Baiting a shield bunker in the middle of her string is a big dedication, to be honest I don't think going for guard crush is a good strategy with her. Her normals and general gameplay are strong enough to work without something that isn't even guaranteed to work unless you catch an H-Moon with no meter or the opponent is incompetent with EX guard.
Yeah a lot of the solutions that people are suggesting against Ryougi can also be used against 4/5 of the cast :/
And that somehow discredits it? I don't see the logic here in downing a totally viable solution. I'm sorry it works on a lot of other characters too.
Like blocking.
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yea... go ahead and shield bunker... then you get baited.. OOPP AWW...
also EX-guard...sure...people ex guard.. just not all the time.. and i can assure i will break gaurds just as fast you ex-guard them..
If you get your guard broken in C or F moon then you are not good at EX Guarding. :/ You can't break guard as fast you EX guard because EX guard completely prevents being guard broken in the first place.
The H-Ryougi blockstrings that guard crush are extremely repetitive and are pretty easy to EX Guard.
Baiting a shield bunker in the middle of her string is a big dedication, to be honest I don't think going for guard crush is a good strategy with her. Her normals and general gameplay are strong enough to work without something that isn't even guaranteed to work unless you catch an H-Moon with no meter or the opponent is incompetent with EX guard.
Ryougi can bait shield pretty safely. Also, because of her amazing neutral game, she can afford to do it. Worst result is being back in neutral, which is one of Ryougi's strongest points.
Yeah a lot of the solutions that people are suggesting against Ryougi can also be used against 4/5 of the cast :/
And that somehow discredits it? I don't see the logic here in downing a totally viable solution. I'm sorry it works on a lot of other characters too.
Like blocking.
Not at all, you're right it doesn't discredit it. Though ex guarding is nice, not always the answer, especially since Ryougi can stagger things as well. Especially C or H moons.
Of course EX guarding can be countered by grabbing/Arc drive if there is meter. Ryougi has some pretty retarded properties on her ground throw lol.
Guard crush strategy is definitely legit. If they're trying to EX guard to not lose their break, it means they're scared and only going to block. Still giving Ryougi advantage and throw in more grabs/staggers to fuck the timing up
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Not at all, you're right it doesn't discredit it. Though ex guarding is nice, not always the answer, especially since Ryougi can stagger things as well. Especially C or H moons.
Of course EX guarding can be countered by grabbing/Arc drive if there is meter. Ryougi has some pretty retarded properties on her ground throw lol.
Guard crush strategy is definitely legit. If they're trying to EX guard to not lose their break, it means they're scared and only going to block. Still giving Ryougi advantage and throw in more grabs/staggers to fuck the timing up
Instant Blocking requires no dedication other than your own practice and a decent familiarity with move sets. It doesn't make you easy to grab or easy to AD (her AD setups are really nasty if you've never seen them, I understand that). EX Guarding is really no different from Instant Blocking, it doesn't require heavy dedication and it's very easy to react to what your opponent is doing if you have even a moderate amount of experience in IBing or things like IB.
I realize she afford to bait EX Shield, but it's still dedication and from what I've seen and played against the GC strings are big dedications in themselves. I've never been remotely close to being GC'd by her unless my friend was using the air-tight GC string. Her neutral game is great, her pressure is good, especially in H-Moon and that's why I think she has other options that are more surefire where the opponent has to rely more on approaching, defending and escaping correctly rather than tapping down-back.
I treat EX Guard as more of a "this is available to me, I should ALWAYS be doing this, no exceptions" rather than "I have to dedicate to this because of x situation".
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Why is this being discussed? America isn't going to block long enough to GC anyways.
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which is even more awesome cuse i like free damage...
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Why is this being discussed? America isn't going to block long enough to GC anyways.
ＬＯＬ ｙｏｕ ｈａｖｅｎｔ ｐｌａｙｅｄ ｍｅ ｙｅｔ．
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I find that even though the knife catch mixup is nice for H, people get used to it after a while and will learn how to see it coming. I still prefer C over H due to better air normals, which help against certain characters.
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Why is this being discussed? America isn't going to block long enough to GC anyways.
ＬＯＬ ｙｏｕ ｈａｖｅｎｔ ｐｌａｙｅｄ ｍｅ ｙｅｔ．
Not true, we played in teams at NEC and I lost :(.
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Why is this being discussed? America isn't going to block long enough to GC anyways.
ＬＯＬ ｙｏｕ ｈａｖｅｎｔ ｐｌａｙｅｄ ｍｅ ｙｅｔ．
Not true, we played in teams at NEC and I lost :(.
Wow lol guys but i think for h to f for her is just how you like to play.
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The problem with F-Ryougi is that although her j.B has huge reach, it also has a huge vulnerable hitbox, so it has problems VS moves with little or no green hitbox. The #1 issue I've faced is versus Akiha and Warachia, Kohaku in C is also a huge problem. She definitely has a strong air zoning game, but against some specific characters with no-greenbox air moves, she finds it almost impossible to win. It's a bit silly to say j.B is unbeatably godlike for air zoning, that's like saying nero j.C is unbeatable because it takes up lots of space.
Shielding isn't a huge deal for F-ryougi, but its moon dependent. If H-Moon shields and you have enough experience/reactionspeed, you can mid parry on reaction for free damage. The same applies to F-moon, if they do their shield counter, else its character dependent. C-Moon is character dependent.
EX guard ruins her and anyone who is remotely competent will be doing it. You cannot afford to rely on guard crush. The rekkas especially are mindless to guard crush since they are always mid/mid/mid (the overheard option sucks and the low ender is unsafe on block unless RC'd). For this same reason they are mindless to shield if you try to charge or stagger any. You can always try to mix up the rekka types but the low ender is unsafe on block so it's really too risky.
Charged 5C is godlike at low-mid level, and against H-Moon it's pretty safe even when shielded (character dependent). Most C and F characters have a long ranged normal/EX they can shield cancel into to wreck your shit, and after a while of playing VS ryougi you can shield the charged 5C somewhat consistently.
Her complete lack of reversal game means you HAVE to master all of the game's defensive options (bunker, EX guard, shield) and you will probably still do little more than delay your loss against a solid rushdown char like warc. Her best reversal in my experience is TK 236C, which is a pathetically bad choice due to the jump startup.
She has an extremely solid neutral game, controls space amazingly, does decent damage and surely I don't need to talk about the arc drive. But she has one core problem that completely destroys her at mid-level play, and that is that her rushdown is not scary. Most of her overhead options are unsafe, predictable, or both. The charged 5C is the only thing you have that will still work past scrub level, and many players will still own you for it there. She only truly gets any kind of scary mixup game when in HEAT, and for that reason I never press advantage after knockdown, preferring to escape and charge meter. F Ryougi is basically a shitty unfinished gimmick character that has no reason to scare anyone without MAX/HEAT, and many characters can really hurt her ability to charge meter after doing j.236B. This is my opinion after taking her to several casuals and tournaments over the past year and playing against many people, including a mid-level japanese player and other top players in the UK/EU. I'm probably going to drop her.
The #1 reason above all else is that there is no joy to playing her. When you win, it's purely because your opponent didn't know how to play against her. Once he does, it is nigh-impossible to win unless you are playing a specific matchup where she has complete air dominance.
A rough comparison would be with MBAC Ver.B white len. A character with lots of interesting stuff and strong points, but just lacking the last few critical tools to bring everything together into a solid game. They fixed wlen for ver.B2 by giving her more options on 623 series and other slight tweaks. Even though she stayed bottom tier she went from unusable to a character you could win with. F-Ryougi feels like she could be the same if you simply made all her rekka options safe (giving her some basic low/mid/high mindgames ability and a way to beat EX guard) and perhaps made her unblockables unshieldable (forcing either a dodge or a reversal, might be OP vs f-moon).
To be honest there are several other characters in MBAA who lack tools to win and I'd like to see all of them recieve their necessary fixes in MBAACC, but that might be wishful thinking. I'd like to see chars like H-wara or seifuku akiha be actually useful though, instead of being stupid neco tier shit gimmicks.
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What the hell happened in this thread? Jesus. I don't usually go on rants, but this deserves it since I used to think F-Ryougi was garbage too.
She definitely has a strong air zoning game, but against some specific characters with no-greenbox air moves, she finds it almost impossible to win.
It sounds to me like you're saying that air zoning is the only tool that F-Ryougi has, and that when she comes up against a character that outranges her, there's nothing she can do. No. F-Ryougi has plenty of tools. Sure, her j.B zoning is great, but she still has things to use in matchups where she's outranged. Look at 5b, 2b, and 22a. 5b is such a ridiculous anti-air. As soon as you get your opponent trying to challenge your j.b you can anti-air 5b them or dash under them and 5b with her awesome dash. 2b has some RANGE and is really fast. 2b, 2c, 3c, rekkas is such a great way to get in. 22a is a super fast projectile with massive frame advantage that also helps her get in when she's outranged.
Shielding isn't a huge deal for F-ryougi, but its moon dependent. If H-Moon shields and you have enough experience/reactionspeed, you can mid parry on reaction for free damage. The same applies to F-moon, if they do their shield counter, else its character dependent. C-Moon is character dependent.
Okay, where the hell did this idea come from? I've been hearing this for a while in relation to H-moon bunker/shield and it's complete bullshit. Show me one player that can actually consistently counter on reaction to getting shielded, especially with F-Ryougi. F has so little time to link her normals together. You pretty much have to press the next button as soon as you've pressed the last. I MIGHT buy this for H-Ryougi normals against F-moon shield counter if you've got great reaction speed and you're really looking for it. But I really don't think this is something you can do without prediction.
EX guard ruins her and anyone who is remotely competent will be doing it. You cannot afford to rely on guard crush. The rekkas especially are mindless to guard crush since they are always mid/mid/mid (the overheard option sucks and the low ender is unsafe on block unless RC'd). For this same reason they are mindless to shield if you try to charge or stagger any. You can always try to mix up the rekka types but the low ender is unsafe on block so it's really too risky.
Well, you're half right. Guard crush isn't really an option unless you're fighting a meterless H-moon. But EX guard does not ruin F-Ryougi. See below for pressure options.
Her complete lack of reversal game means you HAVE to master all of the game's defensive options (bunker, EX guard, shield) and you will probably still do little more than delay your loss against a solid rushdown char like warc. Her best reversal in my experience is TK 236C, which is a pathetically bad choice due to the jump startup.
Well, yeah. You have a point here. She has no reversals. But she has F-moon shield, which is great. If you're looking for a quick getaway, 214c seems to work sometimes, but yeah patience and knowing when to bunker/shield/block is pretty important for any Ryougi. At least she has an anti-A armor 2a with crazy range for poking the holes, right?
She has an extremely solid neutral game, controls space amazingly, does decent damage and surely I don't need to talk about the arc drive. But she has one core problem that completely destroys her at mid-level play, and that is that her rushdown is not scary. Most of her overhead options are unsafe, predictable, or both. The charged 5C is the only thing you have that will still work past scrub level, and many players will still own you for it there. She only truly gets any kind of scary mixup game when in HEAT, and for that reason I never press advantage after knockdown, preferring to escape and charge meter. F Ryougi is basically a shitty unfinished gimmick character that has no reason to scare anyone without MAX/HEAT, and many characters can really hurt her ability to charge meter after doing j.236B. This is my opinion after taking her to several casuals and tournaments over the past year and playing against many people, including a mid-level japanese player and other top players in the UK/EU. I'm probably going to drop her.
Ugh. F-Ryougi's pressure is just as good as say... F-Ries. Rekkas are F-Ryougi's main pressure tool, right? 236a, 236[a], 2a reset. Safe, easy auto-stagger pressure. If you do this every time, OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET SHIELDED. It's the only way to beat it besides DP! So when they start shielding, you don't charge the 2nd hit, or you wait a half a second on the 2a, or you end them like normal with 236a because you have such ridiculous range that being at neutral isn't such a bad thing in the first place. And you also even have 22a for a free dash-in because of crazy frame advantage. Normal string, 22a, dash up 5a, 5a, 5b, 4c, rekkas. Safe way to get in an overhead that leads to more pressure or combo into oki if it hits. All that isn't even taking into account her normal stagger pressure or IH gimmicks. Oh and her airdash j.b at just the right height is a nice double-overhead, too. If you cancel into j.c after the first hit you'll land without it coming out and can go into 2b to keep people guessing.
F-Ryougi has plenty of tools.
And don't be so obsessed with ending your combos with j.236b and charge. F-Ryougi is the only style that can hit with her 2b after airthrow on oki without moving forward, so if you're playing against a character with great air options screw the charge and go for the oki.
The #1 reason above all else is that there is no joy to playing her. When you win, it's purely because your opponent didn't know how to play against her. Once he does, it is nigh-impossible to win unless you are playing a specific matchup where she has complete air dominance.
Well if you play all j.b zoning and durr-hurr rekka pressure into 236b rekka ender air combo style all the time... then yeah she's the most boring, predictable character in the game. Personally, my favorite part about playing her is the oki after a simple combo like 2a, 5b, 2b, 2c, 3c, 236a, 236[a], 214a (have to reverse). You get decent damage plus sandoori or a TK j.236b which-way.
So she has decent, solid pressure that will scrub-out anyone that doesn't know how to shield. She has combos into oki setups. She has good-damage combos in the corner that I find really fun. She has a great arc drive. And most importantly she has air zoning that simply shuts down a lot of characters completely.
I'd say she's pretty damn good.
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5b isn't a good antiair, it's only good for catching people as they're jumping out of pressure. I beat out my buddy trying to use antiair 5b all day. Now, TK236b is some serious business antiair. That shit is annoying. Also somehow you forget that 2/3 moon styles can hold shield, making it pretty brainless to sheild out of her rekkas. It's pretty free. F Ryougi has pretty weak pressure even for F moon charas. The knife helps her pressure, but it's not super easy to get the knife back if you fuck up in C or F.
Btw, how is her dash godlike? It seems like the super late cancel point kills it. I didn't know that her 2a couldn't be a-armored either.
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5b isn't a good antiair, it's only good for catching people as they're jumping out of pressure. I beat out my buddy trying to use antiair 5b all day.
Have you ever seen the hitbox on 5b with frame display? Ryougi ducks her head down and it hits waaaay out in front of her. It even has clash frames.
Maybe your buddy isn't using it well, or something. If you try to use it when someone is right above you then yeah you're probably going to get hit. But it covers a huge range above and in front of you. Just space yourself right.
Btw, how is her dash godlike? It seems like the super late cancel point kills it.
It really shines at dashing under an airborne opponent since it's low and covers a lot of ground really quickly.
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F-Ryougi isn't bad. Her range is really good, the angle of 5B isn't the greatest for AA and if you whiff it then you have around 20 recovery frames which is pretty bad. So it's not as good as you would think. 5B is good for getting jump outs, most definitely, but for for how a lot of characters jump in right on top of you or behind.
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It sounds to me like you're saying that air zoning is the only tool that F-Ryougi has, and that when she comes up against a character that outranges her, there's nothing she can do. No. F-Ryougi has plenty of tools. Sure, her j.B zoning is great, but she still has things to use in matchups where she's outranged. Look at 5b, 2b, and 22a. 5b is such a ridiculous anti-air. As soon as you get your opponent trying to challenge your j.b you can anti-air 5b them or dash under them and 5b with her awesome dash. 2b has some RANGE and is really fast. 2b, 2c, 3c, rekkas is such a great way to get in. 22a is a super fast projectile with massive frame advantage that also helps her get in when she's outranged.
These are all fun tools that I've had success with, but they are all beatable by learning the matchup. 5B is hella risky and spacing yourself properly is kind of difficult with her awkward dash. I've often found 2A to be a more solid antiair option although it loses to obvious air-to-ground moves such as nanaya j.C.
Okay, where the hell did this idea come from? I've been hearing this for a while in relation to H-moon bunker/shield and it's complete bullshit. Show me one player that can actually consistently counter on reaction to getting shielded, especially with F-Ryougi. F has so little time to link her normals together. You pretty much have to press the next button as soon as you've pressed the last. I MIGHT buy this for H-Ryougi normals against F-moon shield counter if you've got great reaction speed and you're really looking for it. But I really don't think this is something you can do without prediction.
Of course not. But if the opponent is predictable it's a valid option. The same can be said of basic shit such as countering Kouma's shield antiair into command throw. He can still run that shit if you autopilot and forget to be weary of it. Obviously reacting to shields in your blockstring is different, but people tend to look out for the same shit and shield it. People often like to shield my 3C, so I'll go into rekkas or a 214 instead, but if I had more experience and skill I don't think it would be infeasible to counter on reaction.
Well, you're half right. Guard crush isn't really an option unless you're fighting a meterless H-moon. But EX guard does not ruin F-Ryougi. See below for pressure options.
your pressure options are gimmick nonsense on the level of ciel's 236B parlor tricks.
Well, yeah. You have a point here. She has no reversals. But she has F-moon shield, which is great. If you're looking for a quick getaway, 214c seems to work sometimes, but yeah patience and knowing when to bunker/shield/block is pretty important for any Ryougi. At least she has an anti-A armor 2a with crazy range for poking the holes, right?
The 2A is so slow, I often find myself going to 5A when I resort to desperation mashing. But her normals are all so slow that when you give up and start mashing, you've probably already lost.
Ugh. F-Ryougi's pressure is just as good as say... F-Ries. Rekkas are F-Ryougi's main pressure tool, right? 236a, 236[a], 2a reset. Safe, easy auto-stagger pressure. If you do this every time, OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET SHIELDED. It's the only way to beat it besides DP! So when they start shielding, you don't charge the 2nd hit, or you wait a half a second on the 2a, or you end them like normal with 236a because you have such ridiculous range that being at neutral isn't such a bad thing in the first place. And you also even have 22a for a free dash-in because of crazy frame advantage. Normal string, 22a, dash up 5a, 5a, 5b, 4c, rekkas. Safe way to get in an overhead that leads to more pressure or combo into oki if it hits. All that isn't even taking into account her normal stagger pressure or IH gimmicks. Oh and her airdash j.b at just the right height is a nice double-overhead, too. If you cancel into j.c after the first hit you'll land without it coming out and can go into 2b to keep people guessing.
F-Ryougi has plenty of tools.
And don't be so obsessed with ending your combos with j.236b and charge. F-Ryougi is the only style that can hit with her 2b after airthrow on oki without moving forward, so if you're playing against a character with great air options screw the charge and go for the oki.
People can just option select shield the second hit of the rekka. When they see you do hit number one, they hold shield. If you charge the second hit, they shield it. If you don't, they lose nothing. Ways to fix this would be making it neutral to end rekkas on first hit, or giving her a low option for second rekka. Since neither of these exist, there is no reliable way to ever do the charged second hit of rekka, and you often find yourself simply doing A A A airtight string, unless you get stupidly risky and mix up the third one. Yes her stagger pressure is decent, but stagger pressure on its own is worthless. Look at MBAC Nanaya, all you have to do is hold down+back and he has no solid options except throwing you. F-Ryougi is the same except she can't whiff cancel into throw, so if you hold down+back and EX guard the predictable shit and keep awake enough to shield the charged 5C, you're golden. What you've listed is all a bunch of neat gimmicks, and don't get me wrong, they're cool. But a gimmick is something that can be defeated with experience. It's not something you can rely on forever. When your opponent stops autopiloting and figures out these gimmicks, almost all of her offensive game disappears, and she has nothing except long-range stagger pressure, which means little when an opponent has no reason to stop blocking. And she can only make an airtight string by throwing the knife, which she can only do once in one string. So they just sit and wait for you to do string into knife into more string, and then what? do you think you can dash in again with f-ryougi without a knife? they will jump out having taken practically zero damage (maybe one or two accidental hits from failed ex-guards, since we're talking about mid-level play) and you start all over again.
Well if you play all j.b zoning and durr-hurr rekka pressure into 236b rekka ender air combo style all the time... then yeah she's the most boring, predictable character in the game. Personally, my favorite part about playing her is the oki after a simple combo like 2a, 5b, 2b, 2c, 3c, 236a, 236[a], 214a (have to reverse). You get decent damage plus sandoori or a TK j.236b which-way.
So she has decent, solid pressure that will scrub-out anyone that doesn't know how to shield. She has combos into oki setups. She has good-damage combos in the corner that I find really fun. She has a great arc drive. And most importantly she has air zoning that simply shuts down a lot of characters completely.
I'd say she's pretty damn good.
I play her in a very straight-edge simple style because all of the advanced shit she has is gimmicks. I don't like winning with gimmicks because it comes down to you winning or losing depending on how much experience the opponent has against your character. I try to stick to her solid core gameplan and only throwing in gimmicks like charged 5C extremely rarely, so opponents don't get used to them. The only advanced things she has that aren't gimmicks are her arc drive tick mixups, which are straight 50/50s if done right.
I think your comment that she will "scrub-out anyone that doesn't know how to shield" pretty much sums it up. But if you want to stomp scrubs you can do that with practically any character. I'm interested in a character I can constantly discover new shit with, grow my skills at the same time, and better my all-around play of the entire game. F-Ryougi offers you none of those things.
By all means, alt her, but I've discovered that maining her just dragged me down, and more importantly, stole the joy of victory away. With F-Ryougi I never felt like I earned a win. That's the core reason I'm dropping her. If you want to continue stomping poor guys who have never faced a rarely-used console character before with her crazy unique shit gimmicks, then feel free.
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Like i said before... i like H and C over F ryougi... but people shouldn't sleep on F... is all im saying... and man i feel happy when i with F.... and it's totally fun to play F.. .EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN IN!!!
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there are no bad characters, only bad players
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there are no bad players, only bad games
OH NO HE DIDNT
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Like i said before... i like H and C over F ryougi... but people shouldn't sleep on F... is all im saying... and man i feel happy when i with F.... and it's totally fun to play F.. .EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN IN!!!
Nah, everyone should play H Ryougi, we know this already. F and C are garbage :V
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Ugh. F-Ryougi's pressure is just as good as say... F-Ries.
F ries pressure is waaay better than Ryougi's purely because of how good a spaced 6c is on block. It's also airtight to go into it from 2c.
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Console tier list
My opinion, taking the best moon of every character. If that character has another moon(s) worth mentioning, they are included.
Toki tier: Archtype Earth
S: H-Kohaku, H-Tohno, H-VShion, C-Mech
A+: C-Kohaku, F/C Nero = C-Warc, F-Maids, C/F Miyako, C-NanayaF-Kohaku, F-Ciel Ryougi
A: H-Nero, F-Nanaya, F-Arc, C-Ciel, C-Hisui, W.Len, Aoko, Kouma, F/H-Vakiha, Akiha, Sacchin, C-Wara, Sion
B+: Roa, Ries, S-Akiha, Len, joke chars (Mekoha, Mecho, NA, NAC)
Type Earth is fair why can't I play her.
EDIT: The chars in each tier are listed in order by strength.
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But Rei > Toki in raw matchup points last time I checked.
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Toki will be forever immortalized as the best in HnK, even if current tiers say otherwise :slowpoke: :slowpoke:
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Console tier list
My opinion, taking the best moon of every character. If that character has another moon(s) worth mentioning, they are included.
Toki tier: Archtype Earth
S: H-Kohaku, H-Tohno, H-VShion, C-Mech
A+: C-Kohaku, F/C Nero = C-Warc, F-Maids, C/F Miyako, F-Kohaku, F-Ciel Ryougi
A: H-Nero, C/F-Nanaya, F-Arc, C-Ciel, C-Hisui, W.Len, Aoko, Kouma, F/H-Vakiha, Akiha, Sacchin, C-Wara, Sion
B+: Roa, Ries, S-Akiha, Len, joke chars (Mekoha, Mecho, NA, NAC)
Type Earth is fair why can't I play her.
I agree with this. Though isn't C-W.Len her best moon? At least that's the one I've seen played best by both USA and JP. Also maybe move C-Mech down to A+ since I don't see her having nowhere near the same amount of tools/bullshit as the others in S tier.
But yeah, looks accurate for the top moons. Joke chars should be in their own tier IMO (C-tier at least).
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cvakiha
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Like i said before... i like H and C over F ryougi... but people shouldn't sleep on F... is all im saying... and man i feel happy when i with F.... and it's totally fun to play F.. .EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN IN!!!
Nah, everyone should play H Ryougi, we know this already. F and C are garbage :V
C and H Ryougi moves are almost the same (i guess) :slowpoke:
EDIT:
Besides i dunno which should i prefer either C-Ryougi or H-Ryougi >_<
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the lowest tier being B+ makes it seem abit exaggerated imho, might as well have tiers of A->B->C instead of A+->A->B+ coz it still means the same thing in this case.
toki tier is still below shin gouki tier in cvs2 lol
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the other moon styles would probably occupy C and stuff
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On serious note I think H-SAkiha should be ranked higher (she's legit good).
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Like i said before... i like H and C over F ryougi... but people shouldn't sleep on F... is all im saying... and man i feel happy when i with F.... and it's totally fun to play F.. .EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN IN!!!
Nah, everyone should play H Ryougi, we know this already. F and C are garbage :V
C and H Ryougi moves are almost the same (i guess) :slowpoke:
EDIT:
Besides i dunno which should i prefer either C-Ryougi or H-Ryougi >_<
H and C play differently. Yes, H has all of the C ground normals except for 5A, 5C, and 6C. H's 5C is a lot larger than C's. H has 22A which is REALLY plus on block and can go into more blockstrings whereas C relies on 5A rebeats which is easier to escape. You can also combo easily off of it and catch it. H nets more damage, also has a ground overhead option that isn't absolute shit (4C). Her jump normals are the same as F's which are pretty godlike. j.B has good horizontal range for air to air, j.C has great vertical range for air to ground.
H has more defensive options due to parries and a decent bunker which is VERY IMPORTANT seeing as C-Ryougi has almost nothing to get you off of her except for heat which can be baited since the hitbox sucks.
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Discussion always reverts back to Ryougi
Can't we just agree she's lame and move on :psyduck:
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Everybody already agrees on that.
Except for the Ryougi players.
;D
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haters gonna hate
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can you move f-roa up a few tiers
just so i can feel better?
please?
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Yo, F Roa has good tools. He just doesn't have a lot of them.
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haters gonna hate
My opinion matters the most
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haters gonna hate
My opinion matters the most
Obviously :psyduck:
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Yo, F Roa has good tools. He just doesn't have a lot of them.
oh yeah i know that, j.[c] ftw
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Yo, F Roa has good tools. He just doesn't have a lot of them.
He can make you block all day, that's it, and then you 2a through his blockstrings and he'd done.
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Actually, I would agree to put H-S.Akiha up a few tiers. I'll give some reasons:
1. Her IAD pressure is extremely fast.
2. Her dash is extremely fast. It allows for ridiculous tech punishes. I mean, she can literally tech chase people on reaction.
3. j.BC dj.BC combos on a standing opponent if it hits, and is her fuzzy guard, leading to 6.5k damage on hit.
4. 2A 2B 5B 5C 22B is a godly frame trap. It allows her to continue pressuring with 2B etc... and can then lead to 5B 5C 22A/B on block. The mixup here is the opponent can jump out or mash out of her 22B, however, 22A catches jumpouts/mashing. This then leads to jumping out/mashing after the 22A. I'm not sure how safe it is, but I know that 22A is atleast safe on block. 2A beats mashing, 6B beats jumpouts.
5. 623C is a fantastic reversal and sets up for tech traps if it lands.
6. Her arc drive is completely safe on whiff or block. It also gives her really good pressure if she's rushing down, giving her the threat of putting it out to catch mashing or simply as a throw setup.
7. Her command throw sets up for oki and is a viable threat when you need it. I've won sooo many games from turtling players by simply throwing them and setting up her ambiguous cross up/guard break.
8. She has an ambiguous cross up/guard break midscreen from throw or combo. The combo that sets it up is 2A 2B 5B 5B 5A 6AA 22A 2C 22A. This allows her to super jump past the person that just got comboed, and airdash j.C. If you time the airdash correctly, you can either cross-up or not cross-up. That being said, if the opponent tries to jump, her j.C will keep them in place in the air and S.Akiha can 2A guard break. This doesn't work on some characters, and on some characters you need to use ad.B.
9. Her j.B has ridiculous range beneath her. It is a great air-ground poke. j.A is also a really good air-air poke.
10. Pillars are great for setting up throw attempts in the corner for oki.
Now, she does have some problems, too. She has absolutely horrible match-ups against Riesbyfe and Ryougi because their attacks will outzone her all day. She has to be liberally patient in order to get in and force them to block. Even more so, Ries can reversal to get S.Akiha off her, making it really hard to stay in. S.Akiha's mixup game aside from her oki setups is pretty garbage. However, if you are good at punishing players, you can force them to block for a very very long time in the corner using her 22x series. (I've gotten many guard breaks this way)
I think she should be pretty high, but I wouldn't place her any higher than A.
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Tier list made by Japanese F-Maids player モスクワ(Moscow). Does not use the standard S-A-B-C format because he used his list to run a special teams tournament, where every character was assigned a ratio/point, and teams could only have a maximum of 10 points.
6
CH-Kohaku H-Shiki H-VSion F-Maids
5
F-Akiha C-Shiki CF-Miyako HF-Nero C-Mech C-Warc
4
H-Hisui F-Kohaku F-Shiki C-Nero F-VSion HF-Warc C-Satsuki HF-Aoko C-Maids C-Nanaya
3
CF-Arc C-Ciel CF-Hisui CH-Akiha H-Miyako C-Wara C-VSion HF-VAkiha H-Mech F-Nanaya HF-Satsuki C-Aoko H-Maids HF-Kouma CF-Ries F-WLen C-Sion
2
HF-Sion H-Arc HF-Ciel HF-Wara C-VAkiha F-Mech H-Nanaya Len C-Kouma H-Ries CH-WLen HF-Roa
1
Necos C-Roa
So there could have been a team of 10 people if they all played the necos or c-roa
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C-Roa is a equivalent joke character :prinny:
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C-Roa is a equivalent joke character :prinny:
When I finally get to WA for that roadtrip it's rape time for you nebi
:psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
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C-Roa is a equivalent joke character :prinny:
When I finally get to WA for that roadtrip it's rape time for you nebi
:psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
C-Roa + Deer Jousting, lets do it :prinny:
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Tier list made by Japanese F-Maids player モスクワ(Moscow). Does not use the standard S-A-B-C format because he used his list to run a special teams tournament, where every character was assigned a ratio/point, and teams could only have a maximum of 10 points.
6
CH-Kohaku H-Shiki H-VSion F-Maids
5
F-Akiha C-Shiki CF-Miyako HF-Nero C-Mech C-Warc
4
H-Hisui F-Kohaku F-Shiki C-Nero F-VSion HF-Warc C-Satsuki HF-Aoko C-Maids C-Nanaya
3
CF-Arc C-Ciel CF-Hisui CH-Akiha H-Miyako C-Wara C-VSion HF-VAkiha H-Mech F-Nanaya HF-Satsuki C-Aoko H-Maids HF-Kouma CF-Ries F-WLen C-Sion
2
HF-Sion H-Arc HF-Ciel HF-Wara C-VAkiha F-Mech H-Nanaya Len C-Kouma H-Ries CH-WLen HF-Roa
1
Necos C-Roa
So there could have been a team of 10 people if they all played the necos or c-roa
I find the list pretty interesting. F Maids, F Shiki, F vSion, H Warc, and H Mech are higher than I would have ever expected, though I can agree with F Maids. On the flip side, C Ciel, F Kouma, F Arc, Sions, H Ries, C Nanaya and H/F vAkiha are lower than I'd expect. I suppose I can agree with F Kouma and H/F vAKiha, but wtf at C Ciel and C Nanaya.
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Tier list made by Japanese F-Maids player モスクワ(Moscow). Does not use the standard S-A-B-C format because he used his list to run a special teams tournament, where every character was assigned a ratio/point, and teams could only have a maximum of 10 points.
6
CH-Kohaku H-Shiki H-VSion F-Maids
5
F-Akiha C-Shiki CF-Miyako HF-Nero C-Mech C-Warc
4
H-Hisui F-Kohaku F-Shiki C-Nero F-VSion HF-Warc C-Satsuki HF-Aoko C-Maids C-Nanaya
3
CF-Arc C-Ciel CF-Hisui CH-Akiha H-Miyako C-Wara C-VSion HF-VAkiha H-Mech F-Nanaya HF-Satsuki C-Aoko H-Maids HF-Kouma CF-Ries F-WLen C-Sion
2
HF-Sion H-Arc HF-Ciel HF-Wara C-VAkiha F-Mech H-Nanaya Len C-Kouma H-Ries CH-WLen HF-Roa
1
Necos C-Roa
So there could have been a team of 10 people if they all played the necos or c-roa
I find the list pretty interesting. F Maids, F Shiki, F vSion, H Warc, and H Mech are higher than I would have ever expected, though I can agree with F Maids. On the flip side, C Ciel, F Kouma, F Arc, Sions, H Ries, C Nanaya and H/F vAkiha are lower than I'd expect. I suppose I can agree with F Kouma and H/F vAKiha, but wtf at C Ciel and C Nanaya.
Now that I actually look at the thing in depth you have a point, C Ciel should be higher.
C Nanaya I haven't played/seen him played so I have no comment on that.
H/F vAkiha sorta surprises me but she takes so much damage I can understand why she is there.
And what are you talking about with F Shiki being too high up? He is a legend with the right color :prinny:
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Now that I actually look at the thing in depth you have a point, C Ciel should be higher.
C Nanaya I haven't played/seen him played so I have no comment on that.
H/F vAkiha sorta surprises me but she takes so much damage I can understand why she is there.
And what are you talking about with F Shiki being too high up? He is a legend with the right color :prinny:
C Nanaya is usually considered near top, like on par with Miyako, and C Ciel is a complete hobag. It just feels wrong for them not being higher.
F Shiki really seems like garbage to me though. I don't understand at all why he's that high.
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Now that I actually look at the thing in depth you have a point, C Ciel should be higher.
C Nanaya I haven't played/seen him played so I have no comment on that.
H/F vAkiha sorta surprises me but she takes so much damage I can understand why she is there.
And what are you talking about with F Shiki being too high up? He is a legend with the right color :prinny:
C Nanaya is usually considered near top, like on par with Miyako, and C Ciel is a complete hobag. It just feels wrong for them not being higher.
F Shiki really seems like garbage to me though. I don't understand at all why he's that high.
Ah, well when I see Nanaya get play I usually only see people pick F Nanaya. Your C Ciel comment is probably the greatest thing I have ever read, and I was just trying to make a joke with the F Shiki thing... Banana Shiki is a total legend. :V
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Ah, well when I see Nanaya get play I usually only see people pick F Nanaya. Your C Ciel comment is probably the greatest thing I have ever read, and I was just trying to make a joke with the F Shiki thing... Banana Shiki is a total legend. :V
Lol, yeah. I've seen the "legendary" banana shiki.
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Ah, well when I see Nanaya get play I usually only see people pick F Nanaya. Your C Ciel comment is probably the greatest thing I have ever read, and I was just trying to make a joke with the F Shiki thing... Banana Shiki is a total legend. :V
Lol, yeah. I've seen the "legendary" banana shiki.
And you dare question his rank!?
In all honesty though this thread makes me want to pick up C Roa xD
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Remember this is C-Ciel from the arcade version
Techable air throw
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C Nanaya is usually considered near top, like on par with Miyako, and C Ciel is a complete hobag. It just feels wrong for them not being higher.
F Shiki really seems like garbage to me though. I don't understand at all why he's that high.
C-Ciel has techable airthrow in arcade.
F-Tohno has BIG damage in corner, a bunch of solid anti-air options(5c, 6b, 236a, 214a), very good air to air with jc, ja with anti a armor, and respectable pressure options. He can also mash between H/C Kohaku 5a BE 5b, which is an obnoxious tick throw setup.
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S+ tier: new jersey
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You could also airdash after ciel's air throw in arcade.
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C-Roa is a equivalent joke character :prinny:
When I finally get to WA for that roadtrip it's rape time for you nebi
:psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
You guys should hurry up and come down :psyduck:
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You could also airdash after ciel's air throw in arcade.
isn't that still technically possible if you air dodge after the airthrow?
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22b, jump, then you can do whatever you have left. Landing and then rejumping is better though...