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Author Topic: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes  (Read 11083 times)

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Offline Psylocke

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PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« on: August 20, 2009, 10:34:50 AM »
Post the changes that you've figured out for various characters in this thread.

So far, I've found that F-Akiha cannot IH her 421A, but she can still IH 421B and 421C.  This is probably because this arc drive setup was too strong

From Rayza, Ciel's airthrow is apparently untechable now, but she can't move after it like before.

And from Sp00ky, H-VSion 623C doesn't let her safely get out a summon, meaning less frame advantage on hit?

There's also a quick list from the jp mbaa bbs, hopefully someone can translate it:
・都古
何故か暗転カットインの絵変更
C BE5C通常技キャンセル不可
補正値等は多分同じ

H わからん

F 火力が500弱ぐらいは下がった
EXせんしゅうの有利時間が少しだけ減った
20Fぐらいはありそうだが
・HV
EX縦カット硬直増大
とりあえず秋葉敷いてる暇とかない
補正か威力変更?
トレモで対シオン、2A2B5B5C>6C6C>2C5Cエリアルで4200程度
実戦でひっかけから確認で実戦用レシピのエリアル、で4000切った
CVは縦カット硬直普通だった

・琥珀
アッパー補正あるかも
浮きが高いせいでちゃぶ台全く完走しなかったけど、3回目のちゃぶ台で3200ぐらい
バーエーでやりこんでないから変化が分からん
でも、浮き高いせいで4ループ安定キャラと対応キャラ増えそう

・シエル
2A2B3B5C>EXフロウJBJCJBJCサマー投げ で同キャラ5200
黒鍵BAB>EXシンカーJAJBJCサマー投げで4000ちょいぐらい
ちょっと安くなった

・メカ
その場避け
EXワイヤー、Aワイヤー後に相手がメカ側に振り向くようになったので
多分既存レシピじゃ背面ダウンは作れない
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 11:08:20 AM by Psylocke »
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Offline Rayza

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 10:36:40 AM »
I'm the one who first mentioned the Ciel airthrow buff! (though Lokanas probably noticed it before me.)
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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 10:38:07 AM »
Which version should we be playing if we expect to be playing on tournament standards?

Offline Spirit Juice

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 11:06:42 AM »
Nerf to VSion?  This makes me sad.
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Offline orka

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 11:20:21 AM »
F.Aoko's j.623B can be blocked in the air now. :(
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 11:22:51 AM by orka »

Offline mynus

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 11:55:05 AM »
F: Maids - Hisui C assist no longer bounces off opponent. now keeps trajectory/travels thru opponent.  >:( Duration is also shorter so window to launch 22B with kohaku to keep in block stun is super tight. Corner trap has changed somewhat you have to call Hisui backwards back thru opponent and have her go forward again amongst other things. Still testing.
Edit: Corner trap no longer possible without meter  :-[. I cry inside....alot.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 01:10:54 PM by mynus »

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 03:47:46 PM »
I'm the one who first mentioned the Ciel airthrow buff! (though Lokanas probably noticed it before me.)

I was the one who told Lokanas :V
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Offline Tropsy

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 06:27:57 PM »
There's also a quick list from the jp mbaa bbs, hopefully someone can translate it:
・都古
何故か暗転カットインの絵変更
C BE5C通常技キャンセル不可
補正値等は多分同じ

H わからん

F 火力が500弱ぐらいは下がった
EXせんしゅうの有利時間が少しだけ減った
20Fぐらいはありそうだが

・HV
EX縦カット硬直増大
とりあえず秋葉敷いてる暇とかない
補正か威力変更?
トレモで対シオン、2A2B5B5C>6C6C>2C5Cエリアルで4200程度
実戦でひっかけから確認で実戦用レシピのエリアル、で4000切った
CVは縦カット硬直普通だった

・琥珀
アッパー補正あるかも
浮きが高いせいでちゃぶ台全く完走しなかったけど、3回目のちゃぶ台で3200ぐらい
バーエーでやりこんでないから変化が分からん
でも、浮き高いせいで4ループ安定キャラと対応キャラ増えそう

・シエル
2A2B3B5C>EXフロウJBJCJBJCサマー投げ で同キャラ5200
黒鍵BAB>EXシンカーJAJBJCサマー投げで4000ちょいぐらい
ちょっと安くなった

・メカ
その場避け
EXワイヤー、Aワイヤー後に相手がメカ側に振り向くようになったので
多分既存レシピじゃ背面ダウンは作れない

Miyako:
For some reason the sprite that pops up during superflash changed
- Crescent:
5[C] not normal cancellable
Proration doesn't seem to have changed
- Half: Dunno
- Full:
BnB damage reduced by about 500.
EX sensyuu (some special move, not sure which) frame advantage reduced
-- still feels like around 20f though.

H Vsion
623C recovery increased -- not enough time to use Akiha summon anymore.
Changes to proration/damage?
In training mode 2ab 5bc 6cc 2c5c aircombo did about 4.2k

C Vsion 623C recovery seems unchanged


Kohaku:
Uppercut (command throw?) proration seems increased.
Since gravity increases less, loops felt weird, but with 3 reps it did about 3.2k
I didn't play her much in ver.A so I'm not sure if it changed,
but the extra floatiness feels like it will allow doing 4 reps on more characters more easily.

Ciel:
2ab 3b 5c ex furou (?) j.bc j.bc airthrow on Ciel herself 5.2k
Black keys (214?) BAB ex sinker (623C?) j.abc airthrow about 4k
Her overall damage is a bit lower.

MH:
Her dodge doesn't move forward anymore.
Her A and ex whips now make the opponent turn towards MH,
so doing knockdowns from behind is probably impossible with the old combos.

Sorry for the choppy translation, to be honest I didn't really know what some things were referring to exactly as I haven't followed MBAA that much, but hopefully it should be obvious to someone familiar with the characters.

Offline Ultima66

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 06:45:19 PM »
Crescent Satsuki: 623A grab groundtechable now

j.[C] j.[C] after 623[A] launch prorates more. I don't know how it works exactly. Correction value after 623[A] in arcade balance remains constant and 41%, each j.[C] lowers correction value a bit in original balance. This probably applies to all styles.

EDIT: Just checked with Full Moon. 623A in Full is not ground techable. That is a Crescent only change. Damage scaling change applies for Full as well.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 06:48:22 PM by Ultima66 »

Offline Abstract Nonsense

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 07:24:57 PM »
'
Quote
Crescent Satsuki: 623A grab groundtechable now

 :emo:
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Offline F9|Chibi

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 09:02:13 PM »
Arcade Mode- Half Moon Hisui can put out three stools at a time, lasting up to fifteen seconds.

Original Mode- Half Moon Hisui can only put out two stools at a time, lasting up to five seconds.
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Offline Zaelar

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2009, 01:28:14 AM »
After c-Ciel's airthrow you can't immediately do any normal, airdash, or jump.  You can do anything else, meaning any special, ex, dodge, and shield.  If what you do after the throw would let you do a normal/airdash/jump after it normally you can then do it, for example you can dodge after an air throw then air dash.

Offline AARP|ZTB

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 04:55:27 AM »
Full Moon Aoko

VerA
j623A air unblockable

Original
j623A air BLOCKABLE

....just....stupid. Unnecessary nerf. Her ground 623b is air unblockable but it's not as good as tk623a WAS.

Also...I think the command buffer was upped back to 12f. I haven't been this upset about execution errors since MBAC ps2...and that also had 12f buffer iirc.
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Offline Nightvoomer

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 05:06:25 AM »
For C-Roa:
You can special cancel 236a with 214 series on hit and block. He used to have this in vanilla mbaa but it was taken out for ver. A. Now he can do his 236a 214a 236c combos again.
Example: 5b 2b 5c 236a 214b 236c 6c air combo and the orb will be out for oki, or 5b 2b 5c 236a 214b 236c 6c 214b(activation) 22c then whatever follow up depending on how many charges you had.
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Offline 4r5

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 10:54:08 AM »
Also...I think the command buffer was upped back to 12f. I haven't been this upset about execution errors since MBAC ps2...and that also had 12f buffer iirc.

just to clear some stuff up, you saying the buffer change is in original mode or the ps2 port as a whole?

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 01:18:57 PM »
After extensive practice on this, I've come to this conclusion:
H/F-Arc cannot combo into EX teleport from an OTG. This means that all 5c 623a 236b combos with F-Arc are invalid and the opponent can/will tech.
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Offline Press

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2009, 01:41:50 PM »
If I'm correct, Kohaku's 22222c used to dizzy people on hit? Cuz if it did, now it doesn't, instead it just leeches life.
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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2009, 01:47:35 PM »
If I'm correct, Kohaku's 22222c used to dizzy people on hit? Cuz if it did, now it doesn't, instead it just leeches life.
lmao, so this is the second time they changed it

i recall them changing it in verA, and now they change it again in original


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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2009, 05:28:13 AM »
Quote
H Vsion
623C recovery increased -- not enough time to use Akiha summon anymore.
ps2 balance sucks. play arcade balance  :psyduck:
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Offline Ultima66

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2009, 07:02:24 AM »
If I'm correct, Kohaku's 22222c used to dizzy people on hit? Cuz if it did, now it doesn't, instead it just leeches life.
lmao, so this is the second time they changed it

i recall them changing it in verA, and now they change it again in original



I think it poisoned in ver A, and they didn't change it again. People just didn't notice it didn't dizzy any more because no one uses that plant.

Offline keobas

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2009, 11:54:09 AM »
Is it just me or player get really upset when a character is weaken? I'm glad less things work as they use too. Juts mean that have to refine your strategy thus more replay value.

I like my characters low in the tiers. Make it that much more satisfying when beating tier whore scrubs. After all if they lose to low tier character that must mean they weren't able to beat the player.

unless some one wants to argue that this game balance is great ( which I think is so)  and tiers don't play a heavy role in MBAA competitive play. If so then why are people upset about the Nerfs? surly the veterans didn't revolve their character strategy around guaranteed scenarios.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 12:22:39 PM by keobas »

Offline LoliSauce

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2009, 03:51:46 PM »
MBAA is less balanced than MBAC was, because of essentially tripling the cast.  It's still pretty well balanced, but when you look at tourney vids and realize that every single top team guaranteed has one or more of the top tier characters (shiki, v sion, or nero) in it...it's kind of saddening.
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Offline Press

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2009, 04:18:36 PM »
Dunno man, Yoshino with his H-Len was pretty hype
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Offline LoliSauce

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2009, 04:43:15 PM »
Not saying it's poorly balanced, just not as well balanced as MBAC was.  There wasn't nearly as much tier whoring in mbac.

For its cast size, MBAA is really surprisingly well balanced though, I must say.
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Offline CT_Warrior

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Re: PS2 MBAA Arcade->Original Balance Changes
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2009, 08:00:28 PM »
But that was for arcade balance isn't it?
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